My oxi-ap

[Kdogg]

Ive read on here of oxi-clean having a high hydrogen peroxide content, so me having a limited quantity of high percentage peroxide, tried ap with it. I mixed some in with water, & went through standard procedure using the oxi-clean/water as peroxide. When I added my acid (which I had chilled) drop by drop it fizzed. No matter how little I put in. Even before adding acid it it sounded carbonated like a pop. Any idea what was going on there? acid/base mixture reaction type thing? Anyways I made it went to work, just got home at nine, & checked it. The bottom had undissolved oxi-clean:(, but the top had about a one inch layer of another substance which lookes like ap. Have I really made ap with oxi-clean? In the jar it is kinda transparent looking.

[grimR]

have you tryed igniting a small amount? I am very curious as to if it worked for I have a great deal of oxyclean and only 3% H202

[algebra]

I looked at the MSDS for oxiclean and it says that "when mixed with water Oxiclean forms oxygen,hydrogen peroxide and soda ash"

The oxiclean MSDS says the product contains Sodium percarbonate 50-70%
and Sodium carbonate 30-50%.

So I think It is possible that it could have worked.

[Kdogg]

Its still forming, but I took some out & tried to clean it, the water just dissolved it.

[da man]

Yes, oxi-clean contains sodium percarbonate, and sodium carbonate. And the sodium percarbonate reacts with water to form hydrogen peroxide, and sodium carbonate, so you are going to have alot of sodium carbonate in your hydrogen peroxide, this is why it fizzed as you added the acid. So you will have to add your acetone/oxi-clean mix, and then slowly add acid untill it stops fizzing, then add the proper amount to catylise the reaction.
It appears it has worked, but you would probably get a better yield, if you neautralise the carbonate, and then add more acid.

[kingspaz]

he won't get any yield if he doesn't neutralise the carbonate. the way i would do it is mix up the oxi clean in some water then add acid until it stops fizzing then add the acetone and stir it in then add some more acid to catylise the reaction. the reason he won't get any yield unless he neutralise it with acid first is because all the catalyst is used up quickly reacting with the carbonate so it doesn't get chance to be used to catalyse the AP reaction. i think that made sense....

[andreas]

Has anyone ever noticed Ap forming larger cristals after it had dryed mine was a fine powder becouse I dissolved it in acetone and added it to a large amount of water. Whell it's dry now and standing like 3 days and it's forming larger crystalls about as big as tablesugar. does anybody have an idea what is going on

[xtreme]

Recrysalisation...I think
Are they in open air or in a closed....bottle/container ?

Larger crystals are more sensitive !! becarefull....neighbour <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

[Kekule]

Sodiumpercarbonate is some sort of complex(not a real complex) wich would described with X Na2CO3 . Y H202. It is similar to a hydrate like Coppersulfate-pentahydrate ( CUSO4 . 5 H20 )with the difference that the H20 molecules are replaced with H202 molecules. Therefore, you wouldn't have to react Sodiumpercarbonate with H20 to get Hydrogen Peroxide. I would suppose that it is possible to obtain a H202-Acetone Solution or a Dihydroperoxypropane-Acetone solution (depending on how fast acetone an H202 react to form Dihydroperoxypropane) by simply adding sodiumpercarbonate to acetone and subsequnt removing the insoluble Na2CO3. It would be possible to obtain a high concentrated solution of H202 in Acetone without having 30% H202.

[Kdogg]

I have about 1/3 of a jar of yield of somthing non-explosive. I believe it is just recrystalized oxi-clean taking up more volume cause the crystals are larger, as it dissolves in water.

Edit: I just made a normal batch with 3%, I will get back to you on the results. Along with results on another oxi-clean batch soon to be made with the help from you guys. As soon as a friend brings over some more oxiclean he took home.

<small>[ July 25, 2002, 03:09 PM: Message edited by: Kdogg ]</small>

[andreas]

whell it's in the open so there are no crystalls recrystalising in the lid

[da man]

Kdogg, those crystals are probably sodium chloride (HCl + NaCO3), possibly crystalised due to the addition of acetone (im not sure if sodium chloride or not?), or just because there was little water, and the mixture was very cold. It could possibly also be sodium percarbonate, and sodium carbonate.
You could use Kingspaz's idea, except any excess HCl, added before the addition of the acetone to neutralize the carbonate, will catalyse the reaction as soon as the acetone is added causing heat, and possibly causing the dimer to form, but if you pre-cool the acetone, and oxi-clean solution there shouldn't be a problem. So you could add the HCl to the solution of percarbonate in water until it stops fizzing, then chill the solution, to precipitate any sodium chloride/carbonate/percarbonate, filter to remove these, and then test the solution to see if it is hydrogen peroxide. If you add lead to it (probably many other metals too) it will start fizzing. There are probably better test others can recommend though. Then if it works you could repeat the procedure, except add acetone and HCl instead of lead <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

[kingspaz]

i'd just like to point out that da man said it before me also.

[marky]

My AP was as fine as iceing sugar and dryed really fast it was my first batch today and i am very happy...

Thankyou to everyone.
hope you all get good results.