Exo-electric Armor

[nbk2000]

Fancy title, eh? :D

What it translates into is a jacket that has conductive fibers woven into it that is attached to a high-voltage source that energizes the fibers to 80,000 volts, making it impossible for anyone to grab your arms or bear-hug you.

It'd also make it rather difficult for piggies to arrest you since they can't physically touch you. :p Though they could still shoot you...:(

Anyways, go to www.no-contact.com and check it out. The idea was developed at MIT as a way of "bringing the plight of womens disempowerment to the attention of the world"...:barf: :rolleyes:...but it would go a long ways to empowering crims!

Shoplifter walks out store with bag full of goodies, store security goes to grab him...ZAAPPP! No touchy! :p

Cop goes to tackle 'hoodie with Nike starter jacket...ZAPPP!...cop gets shit shocked out of him...'hoodie rolls on top of cop who's flopping like a fish under him, pulls cops gun...and it's 187 on an undercover cop! >)

Fedaykin board airplane with the stunner modules hidden as walkmans or such, and the coats lined with TWARON or other lightweight bullet-resistant material. On cue, the fedaykin attack! Anyone trying to grab them, can't. Air marshall tries to shot them, first fedaykin catches the bullets, acting a as shield for his comrades behind him, who push him into the offending hero, shocking the shit out him prior to being shish-kabobed!

The conductive fibers are made from kevlar, so they're strong, and could be woven into a net. Add a stunner module, toss on someone, and they're easy prey!

[Tuatara]

Yeah, I saw that. Toss a litre of brine over it and see what happens.:rolleyes:

[Blackhawk]

You'd have to hope you are really well insulated from your jacket, or you will be the one rolling around in agony, might get tricky if someone in the plane throws some kind of conductive liquid on you, even water could conduct well enough at 80000V (all depends on amperage however)

[nbk2000]

It's rubber insulated and water-proof. Did anyone bother to read the whole site before commenting? :confused:

Yes, brine is quite commonly carried as a refreshment on board airplanes, right next to the squid brain pate' on the little roll-around cart. :p

Water, even conductive, isn't going to short it out since it's manually activated. And you'd only be activating it when someones making a move on you, right? And that means they're touching you. If you're covered in water, and they touch you, then the electricity is even better conducted into them then if you were dry. So :p :p

Also, in my context, the weapon (that's what it is) is not activated until immediately prior to use, and is not set up to give visible/audible warning of what it is. No flashing arc or snapping crackle. Just like a gun, you don't draw it to intimidate, you use it to kill (or stun in this case).

I'd like to sample scam some of this conductive fiber, but need to know which kind that's best suited for use with stunners, low or high impedence?

[Tuatara]

Yes, did read the page. I wasn't suggesting the wearer get zapped, rather that the brine would create such a low impedance path over the outside of the jacket that it would carry most of the current, with luck creating a carbon char path that would effectively ruin the jacket. I was only thinking in terms of the use described on the page, and how you'd defeat it.

If you want a conductive fibre, go low impedance. Otherwise you'll lose too much voltage down the fibre, and stuff all current will reach your target. Carbon fibre would be a good choice.

Actually a carbon fibre vest would be a good defense against a taser.


NBK, you haven't been watching "Die another day." (Bond) have you?

Edit:my typing skills have gone down the toilet.

[Nihilist]

In relation to this topic there have also been some incredible new advances in nanotechnology allowing for the creation of "carbon nanotubes", which have been reported to be 17 times as strong as kevlar, and just as light as a t-shirt. They also have electrical properties(don't know exactly what kind), so it might be possible to use them for this purpose. Now, I know it's impossible for us household chemists to make these things, but in a few years if they keep working on these nanotubes, then you might be able to buy them in the form of everyday clothing.

[nbk2000]

It'd make an interesting experiment to weave a vest of this conductive fiber and see how well it works against a TASER. :)

Tuatara, why'd you ask if I saw a bond movie? Was there something like this in one?

[Tuatara]

Yeah, the big baddie had this electric armour thingy, so he could basically eletrocute people at a touch. Very 'bondish' sort of gadget of course, nevertheless a possible source of inspiration.

[James]

Hmm. I think that such a jacket would also be somewhat useful against EM weapons (i.e. neural disrupter (http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2984)). It doesn't say if the underlayer has to be rubber. Imagine say a bullet-resistant vest with most of the electronics under the jacket and a conductive layer on the outside. Have a matching (but w/o electronics) set of leg armor and maybe a coyf(sp?). It would of course leave your face, hands and feet exposed though. :)

[nbk2000]

The conductive fibers would only be effective as shielding against EM weapons IF it's connected to an efficient earth ground, totally enclosing, insulated from contact with your body, and capable of conducting the frequency of the energy.

In other words, a full body faraday cage. Not happening.

Besides which, the nueral disruptor is aimed specifically at the head, which is what would have to be covered.

The real value in this sort of thing would be in the surprise value against a physical grab. I'm thinking south american kidnappers snatching you off the street kind of grab. What are they going to do when they can't touch their prey? Kind of hard to kidnap someone who's electrified! :p

Since it uses fiber, and fiber can be woven, what could you weave out of it that would be useful? A net is obvious. But a net of hair fine fibers layed over a seat that the victim would sit in is not so obvious, especially if activated by their body weight.

[vulture]

Not activated by their bodyweight but activated by the 3rd gear....:D

[A-BOMB]

What about a pair of electrified kevlar gloves? I mean you punch someone...ZAP!, since there kevlar you grap his knife...ZAP!, you grap the gun in the pigs hands..ZAP! This list could go on and on. And the knife in you hands is also electrified too so you cut and fry him at the same time. :)

[Anthony]

The cops in this country are migrating to the Advanced Taser, and they expect it to work everytime they hit you. Unlike mace or batons which can sometimes not be very ective on first application. An with the taser, they only get one shot.

What I'm getting at, is that foiling their attack is going to surprise them more than with other weapons IMO.

So a conductive jacket with a strong/thick backing to both insulate and stop the electrodes penetrating would be a huge advantage. You only really need a jacket too, since they aim for centre mass.

[john_smith]

How about a kevlar vest with metal screen/wire mesh on it?

[Flake2m]

This give me futher ideas still.
If you take the same concept of exo electric armor and replace the electrical kevlar with fibre optics and some software capable being operated off a palmtop to control the fibre optics then you could have a psuedo-cloaking system.
Maybe I have played too much Deus Ex but there was an idea in the game based behind the concept I am talking about.

Maybe if the PSU was improved so it was capable of zapping multiple times and combined with a fibre optic system you could have a jacket/body suit that not only had exo-electric armor but also had a fibre-optic camoflage system. That way if they did see you they'd have the shock of their life ;) (pun intended).

[Anthony]

If the fibreoptic thing was remotely feasible, wouldn't the military have experimented with it by now?

The problem with the idea is that by the time you've covered the front/rear surface of your body with fibre ends, the fibres running around your body have increased your width by several feet. Heavy, restrictive and you're less camoed than you were to start with!

[Efraim_barkbit]

About the fiber optic cloak, I saw a program on discovery once that were about these kinds of stuff, I don´t remember it very much, but the idea about fibre optic cloaks were mentioned, and I think there were some experimentation going on about it.
Of course you wont become totaly invisible, it would rather make you appear more or less "blurred".

[kingspaz]

the US military has experimented with the fibre optic idea to make try and make things invisible. also some japanese guy has made an 'invisibility cloak'. i doubt this would be as good as anything the military will have developed by now.

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_747591.html

[Zerstoren Sie]

A-Bomb, I like your idea about the electrified gloves. What about simply taking a pair of kevlar gloves, or something else that could insulate, and making your own? Maybe take a bank of photoflash capacitors and have them strapped to your arm. then put contacts on the pair of gloves. This way when you hit somebody, your punch packs a wallop. I bet if one used say 5 or 6 caps, you'd only need one hit. If that's the case, there could be a seperate charging device to attach when not in use. Of course, why not extend this idea further. Weapons, like an electrified mace or flail. The possibilities are endless.

[JDAM]

Originally posted by nbk2000
It'd make an interesting experiment to weave a vest of this conductive fiber and see how well it works against a TASER. :)

Tuatara, why'd you ask if I saw a bond movie? Was there something like this in one?

Not very well likely. Even heavier bullet resistant vests do a lousy job of keeping finely pointed things from penatrating through such as the tip of a knife. Will a knife go right through, no, but it could far enought to draw blood. Tazers use short barbed "anchors" to penatrate and attach and would likely penatrate given a close enough range and sufficient velocity.

What's with this fool that started the thread? Supporting and sympathizing with gang-bangers and terrorists? Is it supposed to make him look cool or contraversial? Makes him sound like an idiot and someone of questionable character.

JDAM

++++++++++++++++++++

Questionable character...maybe...but a fool? Perhaps n00bie needs to take a permanent vacation for being foolish in insulting an admin? :D

[JDAM]

Originally posted by Flake2m
This give me futher ideas still.
If you take the same concept of exo electric armor and replace the electrical kevlar with fibre optics and some software capable being operated off a palmtop to control the fibre optics then you could have a psuedo-cloaking system.
Maybe I have played too much Deus Ex but there was an idea in the game based behind the concept I am talking about.

Maybe if the PSU was improved so it was capable of zapping multiple times and combined with a fibre optic system you could have a jacket/body suit that not only had exo-electric armor but also had a fibre-optic camoflage system. That way if they did see you they'd have the shock of their life ;) (pun intended).


The USAF is experimenting with this now as an all aspect camo for aircraft. Basicall the plane is cover in some sort of color shifting material that get commands from the aircrafts CPU that gets info from the the palnes internal gyros to get a position fix of the aircraft in relation to the ground as well as micro cameras that take pictures of the planes surroundings and change the color as needed to camo the plane. Does it make it invisable? No, merely harder to see.

From the ground, the plane fying in a bright blue sky would essentially dissapear as the bottom of the plane would attempt to match the dominant conditions of the sky around it while a pilot from above the plane might see (or not see as it is) what appears to be ground clutter or material as the top of the aircraft emulates the dominate features (colors) of the ground below it.

It is possible with todays tech but would be very costly and complicated not to mention maintenence heavy for planes that already require a huge number of man hours just to stay inthe air. I think it would be more practical for bomber aircraft.

JDAM

[Zerstoren Sie]

A-Bomb, I like your idea about the electrified gloves. What about simply taking a pair of kevlar gloves, or something else that could insulate, and making your own? Maybe take a bank of photoflash capacitors and have them strapped to your arm. then put contacts on the pair of gloves. This way when you hit somebody, your punch packs a wallop. I bet if one used say 5 or 6 caps, you'd only need one hit. If that's the case, there could be a seperate charging device to attach when not in use. Of course, why not extend this idea further. Weapons, like an electrified mace or flail. The possibilities are endless.

Update: Well, I have got a disposible camera. I think to test at first, I plan on using it to charge at least one extra photoflash cap. I think in the future though, it would be nice to build a better charging system. One extra idea I was thinking about for the actual glove was instead of just using simple contacts on the knuckles, use pin-like items, so that it either punctures their clothing, or even better, their skin. Now then, the only problem area I am thinking of, is that I would like to use store-bought gloves, hopefully without changing them too much. Are there any suggestions on a material? The caps will be charged to around 300 volts, so it shouldn't be too difficult. Also, I was thinking about how to conceal this device. If one were to use the gloves that come up the arm part way, I think this might be pretty easy. An extra layer of material could be sewn on over the electronics, and the wiring, and then only the pins would stick out. One could then wear long sleeves to conceal the bump left from the charging system. Well, any comments/ideas??

[Jacks Complete]

Not sure about the gloves. Anyone know the breakdown potential for latex or nitrile rubber? I would go for latex, as it is a lot less noticeable as the outer covering, though the nitrile rubber is a hell of a lot better at stopping stuff getting to your skin normally. Of course, if the overgloves look really wild, you wouldn't care about bright blue underneath them! Then put a latex glove over the top, and let the pins stick through.

[Zerstoren Sie]

Well, I didn't search thoroughly yet, but I found one site saying that in general, rubbers can break down between 450 and 1000 volts/mil. Assuming this is true, both gloves should easily work, even if the one chosen had a breakdown voltage of 450 V/mil. As for the pins, I'm thinking of something maybe a little stronger than push pins, though having the round backing would be nice to cushion the blow and prevent puncturing the gloves. Again, I'd like to keep this project completely store bought, maybe even so you can just go into Wall-mart and get everything. Ah ha, how about roofing nails for the pins? they could be sharpened nicely and would be tough to bend. Also, when this is complete, I was thinking of making a pdf with my results, and also the construction method,so whoever would like can go and make it. Don't know how soon that'll be, but when i get time it'll get done.

[xperk]

zerstoren sie

you probably want to keep those roofing nails blunt, you don't want to fasten the weapon in your opponents bone tissue, else remember to bring an insulted pair of pliers to relieve yourself of the spastic corpse

Perhaps you should go for a construction more like non-conductive material knuckles sporting those roof nail points, and then gradually scale down the construction to fit a glove system.

For instance if you use plastic tubing to mount the nails on, you would have an insulated base to put your fingers inside allowing both for striking and retracting the weapon. These 'rings' you could wear underneath a pair of ordinary gloves.

good luck!

[Zerstoren Sie]

xperk, First off, i do like the way you said about the 'rings'. Could be an excellent way to do it. Now then, sharpening the nails serve 2 purposes. First, to puncture clothing. Second, if the nails should penetrate the skin, the moisture should increase conductivity quite a bit, which will increase the speed at which the capacitors discharge, making for a much more deadly shock (1 joule = 1 watt discharged in 1 sec. or 1000 watts in .001 sec.). There is not much need to worry about being shocked should you need to pull them out, as the capacitors will be mostly drained. Of course, for safety, one could simply short the terminals, to be sure of full discharge.

[Small Town]

As i see it the exo-electric glove could easily be scaled down to little more than obscured brass knuckles (though obviously not made of brass) with sharpened points as electrodes and a leather or similarly obscuring glove over the top. Electronics can be stored on the underside of the wrist and may extend slightly up the length of the arm, a long sleeve shirt/coat would be neccessary.

The unit itself would be composed of an acrylic or similar, would need to be shaped to fit the fingers relatively well to avoid breakage while maintaining discretion. Building this part of the unit from a polymer would have the added advantage of insulating the user from the charge.

The main obstacles to construction of a useful article would be forming the plastic to a snug yet strong shape, incorporating the electrodes into this piece, and making the powerpack easy to conceal such that one could walk around zapping folks to their heart's content.

[Zerstoren Sie]

That would be pretty nice actually. The main point of me doing it the way I am though, is to make it easy to obtain. Also, A larger unit will allow the user to add as many capacitors in series as they please, albeit, the charge time will be longer. Really the device is quite simple, I think it'd be nice though to have the info. at hand for those not familiar with electronics. This way everyone can make showering sparks of electric death.... :D . Maybe a compact version like you've described could be on the way. I need to get to my device done first though, got the electronics, need the gloves, gotta go look, maybe tomorow.

[Harpoon]

The stun glove available from here (http://www.stungloves.com/) appears to be a normal stun gun only with a cable that runs from the stun gun body to the electrodes on the glove. The glove has a pressure sensitive switch that activates it, and claims to be made from leather.

IMO leather isn't that suitable a material, as the last time I touched a farmyard electric fence with a leather glove, I got a fairly good shock. I'm guessing that a different type of glove lining might be helpful here. The glove I was wearing at the time had a silk lining.

EDIT - I think the electrodes are placed on the palm of the glove to make it more covert.

[Small Town]

Harpoon's link also has a stun glove kit, and stun glove schematics available.

The main disadvantage with that unit is the contacts are in the palm, and it's fairly hard to slap someone who is trying to kill you. Also to contacts appear to be merely metallic studs, so they will not penetrate things such as clothing, they will not penetrate the skin.

The best part of that design is the pressure sensitive arming mechanism. So can we incorporate that into a device more akin to a knuckle duster, isntead of an angry woman?