Fluorine Based Explosives

[Kiyanoosh]

Hi All.I Wanna Make An Explosive Material With Flourine.
According To Chemistry We Can Make NI3 NF3 NCl3 NBr3 NAt3 But In Practise We Can Not Work With Flurin
Does Everybody Knows How We Can Make NF3 ?
I'm Looking For Some Information For Makeing It.
I Cant Be Other Than Gratefull If You Give Me The Information.
Thanks a Lot.;)

[a_bab]

In theory, NF3 should be an extremly unstable gas. Impossible (and impractical) to make.
In practice, you haven't read the rules, so the next phase of your virtual existence could be worse than a tank filled with liquefied NF3 exploding under your ass.

[Mr Cool]

Actually, I'm quite sure that NF3 is stable.

[peterthesmart]

Nitrogen trifluoride (NF3) gas is colorless,stable,toxic,which is used in semiconductor industry as cleaner of the chamber of CVD reactors,resulting in reduced etched silicon surface deposition of the silicon and tungsten compounds, and etchant of polysilicon,silicon nitride,tungsten silicide and tungsten films.

[a_bab]

Yeah, my stupid fault... Actually it should be, as the fluorine compounds tend to be stable, and NCl3 exists...

[vulture]

The reason why nitrogenhalides get more unstable with higher weight of the halide is logical, because the larger the halide, the larger the ionradius, which makes the bond more unstable. Fluorine is a very small ion and the electronegativity difference with N is modest, whereas the difference becomes quite small with chlorine and iodine.

[Mr Cool]

Hmmm... this topic has made me have a thought - what is in teflon grease??

Is it tiny teflon particles in a hydrocarbon or silicone grease, or is it pure, low molecular weight teflon?

Both could be used. In the first instance you could dissolve out the grease and leave teflon powder behind, if it is pure teflon then that could be used as-is. Mix in a little Al or better Mg powder and you have a low brisance but very high energy HE...

[vulture]

I bought Teflon grease that contained a lithium-PTFE complex. Don't ask me how it works...

I do know however that lithiumsalts of organic polymers or large molecules often find application as grease. IIRC it has something to do with the large temperature range of application.

[metafractal]

I have heard of military flash powders that use teflon powder as the oxidizing agent, so that flourine actually does the oxidizing. Unfortunately I have no source to back this up and can not tell you anything more about them. The only other thing I remember is that they have a much higher ignition point than regular flash and are somewhat more powerful.
But Mr Cool, it sounds like your talking about detonation. Now that is interesting. What do you think the sensitivity would be like?

Edit: What I'm describing seems to have been discussed here (http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2388) .

[tri-x]

Mixtures with some finely divided metals, such as
magnesium or aluminum, can be flammable or
explosive under some conditions. source document (http://www.teflon.com/Teflon/downloads/pdf/h48634-4.pdf)

Although solid films of Teflon® coatings do not present any particular fire hazard, small particles ("fines ") of these films can become extremely combustible in the presence of various metal fines when exposed to temperatures above 7960F (4240C). An intimate mixture of such finely divided fluorocarbon and metal powder (e.g., aluminum, magnesium) particles will react violently when subjected to high temperatures source document (http://www.intechservices.com/safe_handling_information.htm)

Flares deployed by military aircraft to decoy missiles use a pyrotechnic composition of Teflon, Magnesium and Viton.

Approximate ratios:

Magnesium, fine 75
Teflon 10
Viton 15
more info here (http://www.cevp.com/docs/DTI_EA/13_Appendix_B.pdf)

I didn’t find anything relating to detonation yet. It appears that Mg or Al/PTFE compositions are mainly used in slower burning pyrotechnic mixes.

I’ll continue to search…

Hystrix, just found it, here is --> Ti/PTFE reference (http://www.sainc.com/onr/detsymp/FinalPapers/DE221.pdf)

[Mr Cool]

I think they can detonate - CCl4/Al can, and CHCl3/Na react explosivley on contact.

[Hystrix]

Well, NF3 is stable and AFAIK it's not explosive. But many difluoroamines are explosive, and the simplest of them is DP12: CH3-C(NF2)2-CH3. Its VoD is 5.98 km/s @ 1.26 g/cc (and its pressure is equal to 140 kbar). It can be obtained from acetone and NHF2 (which can be produced via fluorinating of urea). I can't describe these processes in details now, 'cause I was not very interested in difluoroamines (I don't like fluorinated compounds) but I think you can search this stuff in USPTO.

P.S. Yes, "metal + teflon" compositions can detonate. For example, the mixture of 80% Ti with 20% PTFE has VoD 3.39 km/s.

[nbk2000]

PTFE/Metal incendiaries are well covered in patents. While it may "explode" in the same sense as flashpowder, extremely rapid combustion, it's not a true explosive like TNT or such is, molecular decomposition into gaseous products by shockwave induced disassociation.

[Mr Cool]

To me, if it's set off by a detonator, then it detonates. The exact mechanism matters not in practice, I don't care how it happens as long as the desired effect is achieved.

[tri-x]

I think what NBK was refering to was, more the effect produced than the mechanisim. With a
detonation velocity around 3000 m/s it is more akin to a low explosive such as flash powder
than to a true HE. Even BP can be set off by a high energy detonator, but the reaction front
rapidly slows to a deflagration. What will come closer to getting your rocks off, a pound of
KClO3/Al or a pound of RDX?

[vulture]

That's a very dangerous comparison you are making there. RDX would inflict more direct damage, whereas KClO3/Al (certainly in that quantity) could crack rocks by it's massive heat output. It might even set fire to things in the distance because of the insane heat/UV radiation.

[drednort]

I was pretty much certain that flourine/chlorine explosives are not very well liked, unless they're inorganic, because they tend to produce HF/HCl as the byproducts of explosion and when gaseous they very corrosive, and gaseous HCl is like a thick white smoke as it condensed with water in the air.

The interesting thing is that F2 is probably produced during explosion and this is, I think, a more powerful oxidiser than O2.

[T_Pyro]

Excerpt from "Concise Inorganic Chemistry" (J.D. Lee):

"All the possible trihalides of N, P, As, Sb and Bi are known. The nitrogen compounds are the least stable. Though NF3 is stable, NCl3 is explosive. It was formerly sold as "agene" to bleach flour to make white bread. This use declined rapidly when it was suspected that bread made from flour bleached in this way sent dogs mad! NBr3 and NI3 are known only as their unstable ammoniates NBr3.6H20 and NI3.6NH3. The latter compound detonates unless excess ammonia is present, and students are warned NOT to prepare this compound."

Sorry for the extended information, but I thought others would find this interesting. Anyway, coming back to NF3 and HF, even if you could get hold of HF (which is a difficult proposition in itself), it is advisable not to meddle with it- gaseous HF is very toxic (3 ppm) compared to HCN (10 ppm). On the other hand, if you could devise a weapon which could generate gaseous HF "in situ", then you'd have an effective biological weapon at hand!

+++++++++++++++

HF is an inorganic chemical, and is neither alive, nor capable of dying, thus it is NOT a "biological" anything. :p

NBK

[nitric63]

Originally posted by Mr Cool
Hmmm... this topic has made me have a thought - what is in teflon grease??

Is it tiny teflon particles in a hydrocarbon or silicone grease, or is it pure, low molecular weight teflon?

Both could be used. In the first instance you could dissolve out the grease and leave teflon powder behind, if it is pure teflon then that could be used as-is. Mix in a little Al or better Mg powder and you have a low brisance but very high energy HE...


There does indeed exist a teflon grease that is a low molecular weight teflon. I remember seeing a website in which it was used to coat the inside of a glass container for the purpose of holding a sample of elemental fluorine. It was a site about a periodic table element collection.

[T_Pyro]

sorry, yeah, HF IS an inorganic compound. I meant "chemical weapon", not "biological"- my mistake.