ATM machines

[Efraim_barkbit]

A couple of times a year there is reports in the news paper about people who tries to blow up ATM machines to get hold of the cash stored inside. Today was one of those times.
I don’t actually remember anytime where the "bombers" succeeded to get hold of any money, this time for example, the "bombers" used too much explosives, and the cash was destroyed.
Other times, the "money container" hasn’t been broken, even though some serious damage was done to both the machine and the surroundings.

Is there actually possible to make a “withdrawal” by the use of explosives from one of those machines without destroying the money?
I was thinking if the “money box” is constructed so it can’t break without destroying the cash? Or could it be that most people who have "bombed" these machines have done it without proper knowledge of how to do it, and took the chance of getting some fast money, without really knowing how to do it right, and that’s the reason for the failures? That of course leaves the following questions:
What would be the most efficient way to place the charge/charges if one were to try blowing one of these open and what kind of explosive/shape of charge/number of charges etc. would be the best to use?

I would never use my explosives for anything like this, but it might be good for some people to know

EDIT: only searched the forum and a little on google.
shall I delete the thead?

EDIT again: searched the forum again and found a related thread when using keywords: cash machine.
Nothing on ATM machine and ATM, so figured there was nothing about it here. (strange that it didn´t shove when searching for ATM with the "Search entire posts " marked...)

[mongo blongo]

Didn't search did ya mate.:rolleyes:

[mongo blongo]

Won't let me edit my last post.
Sorry dude you are right. I can remember a thread a while back extensively discussing this exact subject. I think this is it:
http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1005&highlight=cash+machine
It doesn't show up in the search for "ATM" for some reason.

[James]

I'm pretty sure that search engines everywhere routine reject term that are less than four or five letters long. Cash machines I'm certain very resistant to attacks and any attacks that the manufacturers find out about will probably be fixed in the next version and *possibly* passed on the the unit owner/operators as errata. They would certainly be actively looking for such informaton.

[nbk2000]

Our search engine will use 3 letters. Just search "nbk" if you need proof. :D I don't know what Google would be, but I'd think "VX" would turn up hits, so that's 2 letters at least.

Certainly any competent ATM manufacturer is going to search the 'net for any info related on breaking into their machines. They'd be foolish not to.

But, you can't find such information online anyways, unless you call the An4R<I$+ text files that purport to know what they're talking about "information". :rolleyes:

How much faith can you put in information typed up by a pimply faced teenager? :p

[stanfield]

hehe, I've deleted the picture long time ago ! :)

Breaking these ATM isn't a simple task, I guess...
You'll have to be armed to the teeth ! When you'll detonate the charge, all police station near you will be warned...

bye.

[vulture]

If you had an EOD robot at your disposal, it could be possible...

[stanfield]

detonate 20 other charges in your city to "overflow" the pigs then detonate the ATM...
:)

[nbk2000]

Oh sure, and have every FBI agent in the region looking for a terrorist cell (that being your ass) and hunting you down like a rabid dog. :rolleyes:

RTPB "4 ways...stealth and cunning" Blowing 20 charges around town is neither stealthy, nor very clever, since it greatly increases the priority of police and federal attention that your crime will receive, as well as adding nothing to your profit margin.:p

Also, using explosives during the commission of a federal crime (bank robbery, ATM robbery, same thing) makes it a life sentence, regardless, so you'd be better off going into the bank while it's open, and looting the vault, because you're much more likely to succeed with much less effort. :)

[Nihilist]

The best way to get $$$ out of an ATM is by far, the hardest to do, and hardest to get caught doing. It is of course, to "hack" the ATM. It is possible, i'm sure, however i'm sure it is also quite difficult. You can build or buy you're own magnetic card readers/writers and I would bet you could find some kinda buffer overflow or format string exploit somewhere in the code that processes data on a credit card. However even if you were to find such a vulnerability, you would still need shellcode(specific to the ATM) and other such things, to actually pull it off.

[wrench352]

This is the best way of robbing an atm I have ever heard of.
At the local Kwikie-mart a machine was out of order.Two guys in overalls,with a clipboard(of course) come in .Get the brain dead stoner,high school dropout to sign off on the "repair form" and wheeled the sucker right out.No shots fired,no drama In and out.

I looked into trying to Jackpot one for long enough to know it cant be done,but....
There are several malfunctions that come to mind that will cause the machine to shut down automatically.Cash door failing to open being one of them sooooo.

Case the place until theres a long weekend and your pretty sure theres enough loot to split three ways.Make sure theres a real dummy working third shift.Also who does do the repair work on your target?I bet its Diebold.You should hope so too as their company logo is just a big blue DIEBOLD. Although if the Kwikie-mart guy is dumb enough you could where uniforms marked ACME ATM REPAIR INC or a resonable facsimile thereof.
Next Sears Brand work overalls grey company logo on right,fake plastic photo ID on left
CLIPBOARD,CLIPBOARD,CLIPBOARD
this is essential to the operation,repair order forms can be bought on the net easily
and last but not least a van
Ive thought about using halloween hairspray to spaypaint the van white and stencil the large blue DIEBOLD on the side
that way it could be washed off ala the Jackal
save the dynamite and rdx for parties

[Efraim_barkbit]

Chose the right time and place in my region, and it’s more likely than not that the closest cop will have an hour drive to the scene... the closest manned cop station could be far away, and manned means that there is a person there to take calls, wile two cops is out somewhere pouring out some kids beer...

Have an accomplice place a bomb decoy some where far away, call in a threat and you’ll almost guaranteed that you can work alone for quite a time.

I don’t think it’ll get you a life sentence in Sweden, and it’s not a very big chance to get caught, if you play it smart. I´t wont be any terrorist BS at least.


I’ll look up the recent article about the bombing, and see if it said anything about how long it took for the cops to shov up this time.

[stanfield]

attach 1 big truck to the ATM and GO !

[Flake2m]

There have been several ATM robberies over the past few years. In all the cases of robbery or attempted robbery, the thevies normally rammed the ATM then attached steel cable to the ATM and then proceded to rip the bitch out of the wall. If the steel cables snapped they simply drove off before the cops could arrive. Often a raid like that could get them maybe $50000 on a good day.
Explosives wouldn't be nessecary for a raid like this because this method relies on steel cable and big engine, not being able to blow the thing to bits beforehand. I'd be using explosives to get out the money when I had the ATM back on the property.

[stanfield]

But, I can't undestand how to attach the ATM with the truck ?
The ATM is "into" the wall ? you see what I mean, right ? so, how can we "attach" it ?
What's the device ? any photos ?

sorry for my bad english...

bye.

[knowledgehungry]

I believe you would drill some holes and pass steel cable through just a guess.

[john_smith]

In my area, most successful ATM jobs have been done by cutting them open with a grinding wheel ON THE SCENE. In at least one case I know about they could just drill out the lock core and retract the bolts by hand. Of course the general security in the building the ATM is located in has to be really shitty to do so, but there seems to be no shortage of idiots in the security business...
As for explosives, there have been some attempts every once in awhile, but I haven't heard about any of them being successful. Wouldn't say it's impossible to blow open an ATM though, since all those attempts have been moronic at best...like throwing charges at the screen/front panel or simply somewhere near the machine...
A weird idea I had: some of the older machines that are being slowly replaced but by no means a rarity yet (at least where I live) have doors that close "on" the frame rather than into it, like on standard vending machines or fridges. There's usually enough room between door and the frame to get a piece of sheet explosive ca. 2mm thick in there. Would this be likely to blow the door off? Also there was a thread a while ago titled "Planular cutting charge" IIRC. Maybe you could use it to sever the hasps/latches/bolts/whatever thingies that connect such a door to the frame. Since the cash is in drawers, It will probably survive the explosion...I think.

[DBSP]

As far as I understand you could just as well forget about the ATM mashine itself, just smash it out of it's frame or rip it out. What you wan't to get hold of is the safe behind the machine that carries the money.

Last year two ATMs where blown not close to where I live it was probably the same guy both times as they where blasted close to each other and over a short period of time, just a weak or so.

The guy first blew the machine out of it's frame, and when it was clear he jumed inside and blasted the safe getting the money. However the first time only one blast was heard and I don't think that he got any money from the first ATM. But he probably learned how they worked and improved his method for the second time when he used two charges. The paint ampule (sp?) inside the money did detonate so some of the money must have been destroyed, perhaps some managed to stay clear of the paint.

[vulture]

I bet the ingredients of that paint are top secret? Because there must be a solvent that will dissolve it.

[stanfield]

Yes, I think The first time, you'll have to blow up the ATM and look inside how it's built and maybe take some photos... but don't try to get any bucks !

and the second or third time, do it for real !

[nbk2000]

Blow up an ATM?

Why not just buy one, or several for that matter, by becoming a used ATM dealer? :)

There are dealers who sell the machines, so there must be people who buy them. Once you've got a used one, you can take your time analyzing its weaknesses, developing attack strategies, and so on. With a database of such information at your disposal, you could terrorize the ATM industry, and never have to work again.

:D

Naturally, you'll have to have money to start with to be able to buy the ATM's in the first place, but that's RTPB "Proper Investment" anyways.

[stanfield]

hum...

Firstly, I don't think a particular could buy an ATM... (The seller will automaticaly ask you why !find a reason...)
Secondly, as you've said, it won't be cheap...
Finally, who do we need to ask for buying that stuff ???


hard hard hard...

1kg of ANNM will cost you less than this !
even a stolen truck will cost you less than this...


bye !

[nbk2000]

Life in prison being Bubba's bitch because you were too cheap and unimaginative to spend the dough to follow some RTPB's...hard hard hard...on your ass! ;)

For your consideration:


49. Time spent in reconnaissance of the target is never wasted. A lack of thorough reconnaissance often leads to unexpected surprises that cause failure and arrest.


Seems obvious enough, right? And, in this context, it's not only the actual site, but an extension of this RTPB:


50. Research what you intend to do so that you don't repeat other peoples mistakes.


Research does NOT include blowing a hole in an ATM in the middle of the night, running up with a camera, snapping some pics, then running away before the cops show up. :rolleyes: How many dumbasses have done that and are now sitting on sore asses in prison? Quite a few, if what I've read in the newspapers over the years is any idication. :D


51. Practice a new skill before you risk using it in a real life situation that you'll have no way of controlling.


Again...how many times will you have to blow a hole in an ATM before you figure out how to do it consistantly enough to be able to get the money out intact? I'll bet one more time than you'll get before the police catch your ass. :p

Look at the 9/11 Fedaykin. They followed RTPB's very well. They didn't download a warez version of a flight simulator and practice on that before hijacking a jet, did they? No. They spent hundreds of thousands of dollars, and years of time, to learn how to to actually FLY the damn jets (at the same schools commercial airline pilots go to), and everything else that needed to be done to support their mission.

They weren't cheap about it, and that's why they succeded. :(

And you don't need an excuse to buy a used ATM. Remember, YOU are not LOOKING for them, people who want to get rid of their old ones (banks, malls, etc) are LOOKING for YOU! :) So you don't need an excuse. If anything, they're the ones who need an excuse, since it must be either obsolescent/defective/broken/damaged/etc, otherwise they wouldn't be selling it, right? ;)

Insider knowledge gives you a HUGE advantage over someone trying to brute-force their way to success. Look at that high street diamond thief who walked out of a london diamond vault with millions of pounds in diamonds. The guy established himself, blended in, knew the insiders patterns, and used that knowledge against them.

[wrench352]

I just came from the local Kwikie-Mart the machine didnt look like it was bolted to the floor and it was out of order to boot.I think it would take nothing but balls to walk in with a handtruck and clipboard and roll the thing out the door.I reckon you have a 50/50 chance the clerk causes shit(either he will or he wont)if he does be prepared to staight up rob the place,tie him up.

there is an atm at a local grocery store nearby the back of the atm sticks out into the super market florist area,this is where they load it.It looks like a mid size vault with sophisticated locks(multiple).

I noticed several banks have drive up atms with acess rooms behind it,locked with simple door knobs.one could brute force the door and blow the atm from behind this way.Very large shape charge at the hinge.The walls looked pretty thick to me at the super market atm.I guess the thing to do is watch them load it to see if your dealing with redundant walls or something.Does this constitute bank robbery?

[wrench352]

I just looked at a stand alone machine at wally world.In the back there were a 110 looking cord and plug, plugged into a regular wall outlet,an ac adapter looking plug, two small cable bundles,approximately 1/2 in wide each going into the wall at two different spots.There did not seem to be a hook up or coupling of any kind-just running directly into the wall.I did not get a chance to inspect very closely though.The machine was definitely not anchored to the floor.

[nbk2000]

How do you know that they weren't attached to the floor? Did you try to tip it? Could you see under it?

[wrench352]

It was on small table legs(4ines high),Ill drop some change next time and peek underneath.I have a plan to test the one at the Kwikie,as its flush with the floor.This machine at wallyworld is an impractical target very large and its always busy.However I got to peek behind it to see how it was wired without looking too conspicuous.The ones at the kwikie have been carted off before I've read about it in the paper.I think theyre just set in and plugged in.

[James]

I think there might be a way to intercept the information stream betwean the ATM and whoever is operating it. Forget about having it spit out all of the money. I was thinking that if you could decode transactions as they're being processed. You would get all of the bank card numbers used at that ATM. Designing/building the hardware would probably be a major pain in the butt. I think installation and removal of the device itself could be very quick if planned in advance. It would probably be best to install it no one would check. I think ATMs might use a standardased protocol for transactions.

[nbk2000]

Encryption prevents the MITM attack.

Though you could build a device that'd read the card data as the card is inserted into the machine. That's been done before. :)

And, yes, stealing an ATM is considered bank robbery if it's operated by an FDIC insured bank or financial institution. Only privately owned ATM's would be exempted from FBI investigation.

[James]

Communication by ATM would be in a symetric cypher. That might not really deter someone when they can call up the manufacturer and get the original operating software and feed the machine test values. I remember reading somewhere that most ATMs ran OS/2. I also remember reading that banks used DES and 3DES. I really should get some more recent information. Also split it up into two dongles one for long term monitering and one for device hacking. Yes, I probably am an idiot. :o

[Nihilist]

Well, if they use DES, then a key must be stored somewhere on the ATM. So, if you were to hack into the ATM, and retrieve the key you could get it, or you could break into the central server for the ATM's and snag the key's for ALL of the machines serviced by that server. Of course, the easiest way to distribute keys to the ATM's would be electronically, so if you were to install your monitoring device before the machine was activated, then you might be able to capture it when and if it gets transmitter to the ATM. Another thing you might be able to do, is to capture someones withdrawal, and then replay it over the wire.

[nbk2000]

It's a lot more complicated than that.

The encryption keys for the AES (the replacement for DES) used by the ATM for communications with the banking network are burnt into tamper-resistant chips that are installed in the ATM's in specially sealed security containers that will destroy the chip if they're improperly opened, and that means without an RFID dongle and the proper OTP combination for the time synchronized crypto-lock on the containers.

See, the system is set up so that not even the ATM technicians can fiddle with it, nor can a colaborattion of several insiders. The ATM system is a physical embodiment of the RTPB "T NO". :)

Replay attacks aren't going to work either, since the ATM keeps a transaction log, and timestamps all transactions with a hash so that replays are immediately detected and squashed. :(

[wrench352]

I peeked under the skirt of the machine at wallyworld today.It does not seem bolted to the floor, it appears it is on adjustable standoff legs.This sucker is so large I dont think I could budge it by myself.I will try though tomorrow.I try to take things slow as there really is no rush.The one disconcerting thing is that those cable bundles seem hard wired,no quick release anything.There is nothing at the wall and I followed the cables into the machine.If there are quick releases,they are on the interior.This machine looks front loaded and the cables enter the machine near the hinge.The machine at the Qwikie mart is 1/4 the size and Im going to give it a shove tonight tell ya what happens later.

[Terry Collins]

Blowing up ATM machines and getting away with the money CAN be done and has been done. It's not the easiest way to get the money (just ask for it when the come to refill the machine), but it can be done
In Belgium there was a gang who pulled it off several times. First they blow their way into the ATM room, then they blow up the vault. But it takes a lot of explosives and not very surprisingly you'll get a lot of attention and cops chasing you. And the best way to blow up the vault and get to the money you'll will have to find out: by trial and error (probably getting you busted before you succeed).
But the advantage is you can do anytime., even at nighttime. Sojust try it on and let us know about it!

[parmin]

Now I am not much of an expert in these things :( however, being in security industry for a few years would give you some insight.

1. It is impossible to just "wheel out" an ATM. Without proper pass key / alarm disabling system, an ATM would give out a very LOUD alarm sound (from internal back up battery) when tilted more than 5 degree, like when loading it to a trolley. :o plus them things are godalmightily heavy.

2. On average, an ATM in a shopping centre would rate $100 000 or 12 hour protection, what it means if I am not wrong, is that to be able to remove/open/blow up (with profit to the do-er) the ATM without proper equipment, it would cost the preperator about 12 hours and for the effort, the maximum profit would be $100 000 thats if you rob the ATM right after they replenish the money on last Christmas shopping day where the ATM would be most busy (thus no one can rob it wthout witness), coz they wouldn't put more than 50 grands on normal days. Is it worth the risk/effort?:confused:

Now in movies, you may see ppl "crack" safes in minutes..:cool: and they always is a combination key safe and its always the only one key to protect the safe. Thats crap.. excuse my unladylike words :). Average ATM would have two, 8 lever locks for the outside casing. Plus one 8 lever lock on inside casing. Plus one six pins tumble lock for the money compartment. On top of that, the electronics security system would have a 6 mushroom pins tumble lock, plus a security call to de-activate .:rolleyes:

Fergit robbing them ATMs. Stick to fun and excitement of bank robbing.. with fake cheque? Creditcards? notes?;)

Just my 2 cents. But hey I might be wrong...

[zaibatsu]

I've personally loaded over £100,000 into a cash machine before, and this was during the summer, so not at any strange holiday/time. However, the cash machine was inside a bank, but the doors were not very secure (having a glass section big enough to remove to gain access).

[parmin]

No doubt, under certain cirsumstance large sum of money can be placed to ATMs . Provided that the location is safe enough and have high enough traffic that demand the utilisation of the machine. No offense zaibatsu, however, that must be at least 5 years ago. :) (you old man you)

Average shopping centre ATMs would normally carry a lot less than that. They are no longer required in modern shop with EFTPOS machine, where purchases are charged instead of paid for by cash and availability of cash out from certain merchants. So comon sense dictate placing lesser amount of monies on ATMs for security reasons.

Again I said I am not much of an expert, and maybe where I work have different policy..:confused:

[TheExecutioner]

Hehe you Want Cash from an ATM? Simple, go to a building site and steal a JCB Digger, then drive up to a high street and drive the digger through the wall and you can simply reverse outta there with the ATM all snug inside.

Ps- NBK, only joking no need to go and ban me now for being "kewl" ;)

EDIT: Actually believe it or not, someone in the UK did actually do this and went on a rampage a year or two back it was in the news.

[kingspaz]

if you'red joking then why spew your sewage into the topic?

[wrench352]

Parmin:
Okay I did some research not all atms are made the same,the one at wally world is a behemoth compared to the one at the Kwikie-mart.Choose your victim wisely.The one at the Kwikie mart would not slide when I leaned hard on it,but it did start to tilt.Its one big safe with lots of steel.A hand truck is an amazing tool however and I have moved many things with them I could not have easily pushed around.How did all your appliances get in your house?Do it the hard way?Not all atm are bolted down either.I researched a little,trying to find the original article from the paper and found several similar crimes,not many,few and far between,but it happens.This is not a "lone actor" jobI think trying to do the front end loader thing,by yourself,would take too long(unless your expert with a front end loader).You cant do this job half assed if you expect to be successful.Choose the path of least resistance.

the alarm part,well timing is everything.How many cars a day get stolen with a working ,wailing alarm.Acoustic tile in the van?Tell the clerk its "frozen" before you cut the cord:D
Actually the one at Kwickie didnt look hard wired so you wouldnt even need to do that.

Card counting rule number one,dont bet every hand.Choose the path of least resistance.Choose your victim wisely.

[nbk2000]

Holy shit...a newbie who's actually thinking things through! :eek:

;)

"Choose your victim wisely". Indeed. You don't go around blindly striking anything and everything in sight. You take your time, make your plans, scout out the target, and hit when everything is in your favor. If you try to blow up a huge ATM, you're very likely to fail. But walking out with one small enough to fit on a handtruck is much more feasible, and has a history of being sucessfully done, even if the crims usually get caught later (always for RTPB violations).

The hardwired connections are for the ATM to connect to the banks WAN, and likely the power as well.

Using a front-loader would definitely draw attention. While I'm sure you easily scoop up an ATM using one, how are you going to get the front loader, transport it to the site, and fire it up at 2AM without drawing heat along the way? Hmmmm.....:p

[Mick]

what everyone has forgotten is all ATM's are fitted with GPS tracking.
you rip it out of the wall, the bank can nolonger "ping" the machine to make sure its there - alarm goes off, cops follow you home.

perhaps its different in the states, but thats how it it in OZ. even privately owned machines are fitted with GPS or otherwise insurance will not cover them.

having said that, 99% of ATMs in service stations and other "low key" business' have a max of $5000 in them at any one time. the machine keeps a running total of how much cash is in it at anyone time, and when it gets to a certain ammount, it sends a message to the bank saying "fill me up" and armaguard comes out, fills it up, and off they go. i've seen them come out twice in one day to fill the machine up cause it was being used so much.
i believe if the site of the ATM has 24hour security(or atleast security on duty while the business is open) the they will increase the cash limit of the ATM to $10,000.

you'll also find that even most ATMs in the front windows of bank have a limit of around $5000

i work in a service station with an ATM, i've also set the alarm off in the machine a couple of times by hitting it with the floor buffer. (its a silent alarm BTW)
the first time was an accident - minding my own business, buffing the floor, when the whole driveway lights up with blue and red lights, and strange looking men with guns drawn came storming into the shop "wheres your ATM?!!!"...
the second time i did it on purpose to see how long it took them to arrive - 2 minutes exactly for the first 3 cop cars to arrive, another minute after that 2 more cop cars as well as 2 security company cars.
basicly, you really wouldn't have time to scratch your ass and even then - if a cop just happened to near by, you'd fucked.

hell, even when we have a blackout, they still send a cop, or armed guard down to make sure the machine is stil there(and this still only takes them 3 minutes to arrive. then they sit in the parking lot, or do regular drive by's, untill the power comes back on)


i could have sworn there was an "RTPB" that said "make sure your crime is worth the time"..either way, its always been one of my rules, and i believe it applies here.
would you be happy to spend atleast 5-10 in jail(or even more if they happen to nail you for anything else, ie. stuff to do with here) for MAX of $5000?.
my answer would be a resounding, NO.

[nbk2000]

i could have sworn there was an "RTPB" that said "make sure your crime is worth the time"...


That's RTPB "PETTY (Pathetic Earnings To Trap You).

There are plans on the net for close range GPS jammers, which would definitely be something to get and have handy.

Also, GPS doesn't work if it can't get a clear signal from at least 4 or more satellites. And it can't get the signal from inside a metal box (like a moving van with a ground chain or a cargo container), so that'd squash that. :p

$5,000 is rather pathetic, especially considering all the effort required to break into the damn thing. Armed robbery is much simplier (if more physically dangerous to you) and can net you much greater gains.

Though the kind of reaction you got from the ATM being bumped or the power going out seems way out of proportion. I've NEVER seen that sort of response here in the US, and believe me, I've tried to get it. ;)

[Mick]

Originally posted by nbk2000
That's RTPB "PETTY (Pathetic Earnings To Trap You).

There are plans on the net for close range GPS jammers, which would definitely be something to get and have handy.

Also, GPS doesn't work if it can't get a clear signal from at least 4 or more satellites. And it can't get the signal from inside a metal box (like a moving van with a ground chain or a cargo container), so that'd squash that. :p

$5,000 is rather pathetic, especially considering all the effort required to break into the damn thing. Armed robbery is much simplier (if more physically dangerous to you) and can net you much greater gains.

Though the kind of reaction you got from the ATM being bumped or the power going out seems way out of proportion. I've NEVER seen that sort of response here in the US, and believe me, I've tried to get it. ;)

yes, it is way out of proportion. we don't even get that kind of response time when we press the silent "hold up" alarm under the counter. it took 1 cop car 5 minutes to arrive when we last tested our hold up alarm(nobody suggest holding up a servo either. its a violent crime = 12years jail, total cash $500. i'd do over an ATM before a servo)

most ATM's are metal boxes, so i don't think taking the ATM away in a truck or a cargo container is going to cause it to lose signal.
perhaps if the ATM was subjected to some kind of "electrical distortion" field to disrupt the GPS signal it could give you enough time to get the cash out.

also, if your pinching the ATM, how far do you think you would get in a great big truck before the cops catch up? most trucks aren't exactly speed demons.(unless your driving the bandag bullet or something)


i'm sure there is "money to be made" by ram raiding ATM's, however you would need to pinch alot of them to make it anywhere near worth while. however doing this would break RTPB #51 - keep knocking off ATM's and they'll get you eventually.
unless you do it over a long period of time, in different areas, with a different MO - but again, how far will $5000 get you - not far enough to change locations, change your setup, and keep you alive for a month or so until you hit the next ATM.

armed robbery is pretty good, but you'd have to hit a really good target, like an armed truck.(but that again produce's some rather shit house problems to overcome) but even then, armed robbery in OZ is a violent crime and instantly gets 12 years or more.



one idea i've been ticking over has been midnight raids on rich people.
i'll use this guy as an example (http://www.ls1.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=385743&perpage=15&pagenumber=8)(you'll need to have a look at page 9 as well)
a quick run down of the story...
a guy on a forum says that he has an extremely expensive car. the other forum go'ers don't believe him.
so he posts a pic of it. they say he ripped it from somewhere.
so he posts another pic, including things like a holding a penny and a sign stuck to his car. they say he photochopped, and make some reference to his car and $150,000.
so the guy totaly owns them, buy withdrawing $150k from his bank, and piles it up then takes a pic of it and his car. other forum go'ers end up looking like this: :eek: :mad:

altho this is rather funny - this guy is a prime target.
he has access to stupid amounts of cash with relative ease.
my plan would be to basicly, raid his house in the middle of the night, hold him or his wife *whoever* and demand cash, or someone dies.

there are a quite a few pitfalls to this(DNA, hero-factor etc etc), as there are with any plan, however majority of the pitfalls are within reason to overcome(compared to swat beating down on your ass when you fart next to an ATM).
i was going to go into detail on this, but i believe this would be branching out into a completely different topic....

[Anath]

One thing I'd like to point out here, If you are going to drive away with an ATM in a van or truck, it's the Mobile Phone signal you would need to jam, rather than the GPS.

The ATM uses the GPS for a location fix, then dials up the bank on its inbuilt cellphone to report the position, even if the GPS was jammed or destroyed the bacon could still trace you to the nearest mobile phone 'cell' and probably triangulate your position with a good deal of accuracy using radio-direction-finding techniques as well.

Being in a closed van won't bother it, you can still make phone calls from inside a van or truck right? Mobile Phone jammers do exist
$150 personal jammer (http://starportuk.com/21.htm)
Cell Phone Jammers (http://www.newhouse.com/archive/story1a092200.html)

Oh. and that guy with the Trans-Am and $150k cash?.. He deserves to be robbed.

[nbk2000]

This guy is going down! :D

How stupid can you get? As per RTPBs:

RTPB: SUPREME RULE

The MOST important thing to keep secret is where you are. If NO ONE knows where you are, you can act with impunity, free from the fear of retribution for your actions.

In this case, we know what city he lives in, which greatly simplifies things.

RTPB: NO ONE can know what you have, how much you have, where you have it, where you got it, how you got it, or where it goes to. Only through secrecy can you keep your ill gotten gains safe from crooks and cops alike.

Gee...lets see what he's got...at least $150K cash, plus:


T2001 TRANS AM M6 RED
MODS: CORSA, K&N FIPK, ASP PULLEYS, HURST BILLET, T/A GIRDLE, V1
BMR: STB, SFC, APHR, LCA, D/S LOOP

2003 Silverado 4WD 5.3L Z71 ExtCab (SportMasters "Hinged" Tonneau cover)

2000 Tahoe 4WD 5.3L (K&N Filter and B.F. Goodrich A/T tires)


Knowing all the vehicles he owns, how hard would it be to determine who he his by running a DMV search for titles on these make/model of vehicles? If it was only one, there might be hundreds of matches, but with 3 it's piss easy.

We also know his vocation, which may entail licenses or professional associations, all of which are traceable.

RTPB: Don't front yourself off with fancy cars, jewelry, cloths, and such if you don't have a job that could pay for it. If you work at McDonalds you obviously can't afford a Mercedes.

Well, maybe he does have a job that can pay for it all, but by flashing his shit, he's just drawn the attention of any number of potential robbers who'd likely be happy to snip off some of his fingers to get a hold of that kind of loot.

As for the ATM, if the ATM is in a grounded metal box (moving van with no windows and a grounding chain) than neither GPS nor cellular is going to work.

I'm assuming you're not in hot persuit within 120 seconds of snatching the ATM.

Both GPS and cellular jammers are required equipment for any serious NBK nowadays because of the prevelance of this technology and the sneaky ways to which it's being put to use. Oh, and video detectors too.

[KAROMESIS]

It seems that mathmatically speaking the odds are greater for the success of snatcing a smaller atm ,being that it has been successful in the past even when the perpitraitors are less than the ideal type:D atm safes have a cassette inside and the smallest I have seen here in the states is a 700 note cassette, the largest I have seen is 12000 note capacity holding a maximun of 14000 dollars in the 700 and 240000 in the larger in 20$ bills.unfourtanetly the latter is the one spoken of in another thread as being many feet behind the actual cash dispenser mechanism, and would need 20 kilotons of ANNM to get to the cash by wich time the money would have become the proverbial " green " mist:rolleyes:

[ShadowAlchemist]

May i suggest that anyone remotely interested in such an endeavour, should/MUST visit the site i am linking you to. http://www.howstuffworks.com/atm.htm
This website is extremely valuable and very comprehensive. Such knowledge is absolutely essential for furtherance of any criminal career! It has guided me immensly ;)

[Gsus]

have you guys ever heard of the millenium dome?
Some guys drove a bulldozer straight through the wall and tried to nick the diamonds below.
"The vault houses a dozen top quality diamonds -- including the 203-carat De Beers Millennium Star, the third largest diamond ever discovered.

Four people were arrested in the vault and another two were captured as they tried to escape by powerboat along the River Thames."

these blokes sure had balls.
Another method of ATM robbery i've heard of but probably won't work any more is pouring water or Freon into the ATM itself through some slot.
As you may or may not already know the water will expand and rip the ATM apart.

[Gatyo]

I think that it's pretty reasonable to just go with the clipboard and some working clothes you'll be able to pull this out. You go there with your truck, dismantle the ATM first, then with a magnetic/electric shock device burn all the electricity in the machine itself. (something simmilar to the bus bomb in ocean's eleven) After that you unplug the cables and for less then two minutes you'll have to carry it in the van with heavy-lifting tools. At the sametime if you call in a bomb thread somewhere near the neighbourhood you'll have around 10 minutes to get the hell out of there.

[strongwbow]

As far as ATM looting goes the hurricane season in South Florida would be easy pickings. Wait till all the power is off and go in a number of commonly owned convenience stores with privately (not bank) owned atm's. Remove them for "safekeeping" and repair. Remember to "backstop" your new identity in case any LE snoops around. Haul to a remote location and open with a plasma cutter. Be prepared for a full scale FBI investigation. Just a thought

[Jacks Complete]

Nice plan. People tried that in New Orleans, too, and some of them got shot dead by troops out to stop looting. Others got shot by home and business owners, until the troops and police disarmed them by force. Or by "backstop" perhaps you didn't mean "act as a place for a bullet to come to rest"?

Using a big event like a storm as cover might work, but dying in a storm surge would not make it worthwhile.

[FullMetalJacket]

Two words:

Thermic Lance.

Ohhhhh yeeaahhhhh.

[strongwbow]

The burning bar is a little too hot to open the cash cassett. You need precision. Also if you properly backstop your new "Identity" your new best friends will be local LE. A little BS goes a long way down south

[PCBandit]

FYI with regard to bank sponsored, "insert card" rather than swipe, ATMs.

To open the ATM in the 'legit' manner, you'll first need the initial digital combination at the rear.

If you are able to place an employee under duress to open said combo, be aware that by entering his normal combo but out of order will open the rear lock as normal but will also activate a silent alarm at the security monitoring centre.

After the initial combo has been entered and the main fascia has been openned, a key and further combo is required to gain access. In an 'in bank' situation, all three steps will be carried out by three seperate employees independant of the others.

There is, however, no time delay on ATMs as opposed to targeting the treasury.

It takes 10 hours to drill through an ATM. If you're planning on drilling, take it home with you!

[vigs]

Here is data about Diebold ATM from patent office...blueprints.

If anybody knows how to remove stains on notes from security device or disable one please post here or send me a mail to sucking@mommys.tits.com.

In my research i did find only 3 manufacturer of cash staining systems:

SQS Security
3S1 Security Systems
Fluiditi

I have blueprints of their devices but it doesnt help much, i do not know nothing about the ink itself... They do not produce ink but only security systems where money is placed...a cassete for ATM.

DIEBOLD ATM http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/fetch.jsp?DISP=25&IDB=0&SORT=1168439-KEY&LANG=ENG&LANGUAGE=ENG&SERVER_TYPE=19&FORM=SEP-0%2FHITNUM%2CB-ENG%2CDP%2CMC%2CPA%2CABSUM-ENG&IA=US2004007167&TOTAL=123&C=0&SEARCH_IA=US2004007167&START=1&QUERY=diebold&DBSELECT=PCT&TYPE_FIELD=256&RESULT=22&IDOC=1070576&DISPLAY=STATUS
SQS Security system
http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/fetch.jsp?DISP=25&IDB=0&SORT=1171635-SCORE&LANG=ENG&LANGUAGE=ENG&SERVER_TYPE=19&FORM=SEP-0%2FHITNUM%2CB-ENG%2CDP%2CMC%2CPA%2CABSUM-ENG%2CSCORE&IA=SE1999000866&TOTAL=23&C=0&SEARCH_IA=SE1999000866&START=1&QUERY=sqs&DBSELECT=PCT&TYPE_FIELD=256&RESULT=15&IDOC=677117&DISPLAY=STATUS


It takes 10 hours to drill through an ATM. If you're planning on drilling, take it home with you!



You do not need 10 hours to drill ATM safe... it is only 12mm thick (level 1 safe) You can even cut trough in 7min ..... ;)
The real problem is ink dye... look at this link..
http://www.atmmarketplace.com/news_story.htm?i=14922


Don't quote whole posts when only 1 sentence is relevant! :mad:

[nbk2000]

If the dye doesn't stop the bill from being accepted by a bill changing machine, then that's how you defeat this anti-theft measure. :p

Machines don't care if your money is pink, since they don't look for color, only proper magnetic inductance patterns and dielectric field distortion.

Also, the ATM vault may be able to be penetrated by a torch in some few minutes, but do you have that long before any one of the multiple alarms has summoned the police?

Patent diagrams do NOT equal blueprints. :rolleyes:

Also, why would anyone who does know how to remove the dye-stains from money give it to someone like you for nothing?

The game is to be sold, not told! :p

And research involves reading more than 1 webpage, so it not surprising your 'research' only came up with the three manufacturers listed on the one webpage you linked.

[megalomania]

Aww, shucks, masta! Iz gonna hafta go down to the liber-ary and read me the Thomas Register to find out the identity of manufactures who make cash staining systems.

Too hard for you vigs?

Hey, guess what? Google is not worth a shit in finding real information because 90% of the knowledge of man still exists on paper. This is something The Forum was created to rectify.

[vizionar]

They use 1-methylaminoanthraquinone (1-MAAQ)...

[bodabdan]

If the dye doesn't stop the bill from being accepted by a bill changing machine, then that's how you defeat this anti-theft measure.

I was once told that drug dealers are likely targets to accept dyed/counterfeit currency. Of course now you have to convert the products back in to cash, and there are possible consequences of screwing the dealer.

[Mr Science]

Found this today, heres another consideration for yoinking money; however, I have no idea how to make/purchase a skimmer. As a guess its a modified card reader in a different case.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=36a_1176267145

[nmp2]

It's not so much the dye packs that bother me, I think we all could find a way around that.
What about tracking devices on the order of LoJack. Do these things have some form of transponder in them?
If not - I'm in favor of backing a truck through a MacDonalds glass storefront and leaving with the free-standing cash box. Maybe 30 seconds. To the bold goes the gold and all that.
But then - If the ATM and it's contents were my responsibility, there is NO way I'd let one of these things out into the public WITHOUT some sort of "help I've been stolen" transponder.
That being said - a large flow of electricity through the casing/frame to disable any sort of beacon (hoping they share a ground to frame) - maybe from an arc welder or high voltage lighting source?
Open the box at your leisure - at someone else's property.

[Chopper]

Do these things have some form of transponder in them?

Who gives a shit? Same with armored cash vans.. So what if they've got a transponder. Repeat after me, Faraday Cage.

All you gotta do is get the bugger inside a shipping container (or other suitable metal container) on the back of a truck and drive off. Provided they don't use xrays or anything else nasty & tricky, you're home and hosed. The radio transponder's signal never leaves the back of the truck.

You can show the effect in your kitchen. Take a transistor radio or a mobile phone, place inside a saucepan then place a metallic sieve large enough to cover the top of the pan over the top. The radio is now dead, no signal. Works even better when you use sheet rather than mesh. This is why there is detectable leakage from microwave ovens - the screen does let tiny amounts of radiation through.

I STILL can't believe I've never heard of a grab being done like this.
Same with GPS tracked cars. Catch 'em and put 'em in the metal box.

So, in the case of the ATM. Hire a forklift and truck. Ram-raid or forklift the atm from it's ~1 inch bolts, pick up and put in back of truck. Drive away and examine at leisure inside a steel shed.

As for the ink - if you cant wash it off with water, perhaps you cant stain soaking wet(with water) money either.

[nbk2000]

Maybe the reason you haven't heard of anyone using a faraday cage for ATM raids is because they ones that do, don't get caught! ;)

[ChippedHammer]

I reckon your nuts trying to blow one open on site, you risk taking out the money and getting serious heat come after you. Ill try find some CCTV footage of people here ram raiding the machines, they drive one SUV type car (stolen of course) fairly fast at the machine knocking it over and in the process taking out any anchors that were in place.

Then 3-4 guys get out using a combination of a winch and manual pushing they load it into the back of the van / truck and make their fucking getaway. The whole thing takes a few minutes tops, they take the thing back to their base and use a plasma cutter or oxy torch cut it open. GPS and phone-home devices are useless as a half smart person can build a multiple frequency jammer. From memory it fitted in a standard van fine, faraday cage is another option only problem would be when removing it from the van. A solution would be to leave it there for a week until the battery runs out.

I remember some idiots decided to drag the thing home, they lived maybe a few hundred meters and when the cop's turn up there were lovely drag marks on the road leading them to the 2 fools. :)

Heres a basic example (went wrong though)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjJqvtromEE

I don't know about the ink, our notes are polymer so I assume its more of a solution that dissolves the money.

[Mr Science]

This is 30% on topic, but could radmax be used for a Faraday cage?
http://unitednuclear.com/radmax.htm

[Jacks Complete]

http://www.youtube.com/comment_servlet?all_comments&v=iIpgxVT0mNE&fromurl=/watch%3Fv%3DiIpgxVT0mNE%26mode%3Drelated%26search% 3D shows a Faraday cage handbag for stealing from shops to stop the radio tags from catching you. Using the same idea for an ATM would work, and it would be more flexible than a container.

Ensure the tag/ATM is electrically isolated from the cage, otherwise you will get a nasty shock if they use the frame as the aerial, since your entire cage will be the transmitter. (and I mean that two ways: if it's a strong transmitter you might get a physical shock or even RF burn, and if not, you will be shocked that the pork followed you home despite your fancy container lorry!)

[godfearsme]

In 2000 I was charged with breaking into several ATM's in Canada...after a lengthy and costly trial I was acquitted on the vast majority of charges. So I guess you could say I have some first hand knowledge on this topic. Let me begin by saying that the security is constantly in flux and always evolving so what worked a few months ago may not now. The ATM's I was accused of breaking into where all the large type that are typically seen at bank branches, they load from the back and access is controlled via a small independently alarmed room. Whom ever did these crimes usually entered through the roof directly in these small rooms that had the door pinned but no PIR detectors. The machines themselves are heavily alarmed but mostly sensitized to large and sudden attacks, violent and heat based attacks. What the gentlemen who committed these crimes did was use something akin to the jaws of life that firemen use to extract people from automobile wrecks. Imagine if you will two 5 Tone hydraulic rams attached to two large and very strong "rabbit ears". These are activated using hydraulic hand pumps. The set up looks very much like a giant pair of scissors except pressure is used to open them not close. As long as the ATM wasn't jarred, banged or struck more than once every 5 minutes or so the seismic sensor would not alert. It takes two or more relatively strong blows to set it off. So slowly but surely the door would part and presto bango you have somewhere between 50 and a 100k per machine. The only hang up was on the newer machines an alarm sounded upon removal of the cassettes. So it becomes a "lets get the fuck out of here quick" situation. Often 3 or 4 machines could be accessed via the same control room and on average it took 45 minutes per ATM. As a side note it a good idea to have a 'six' man to let you know when people are coming to use the ATM's so you can keep quite......So there you go that's how you rob an ATM....PS be very very careful who your partner is cause it would surprise you the number of rat bastards out there.....

[LeshracVNN]

Ever heard of things called 'malls' ?

The blast itself generates lots of attention and confusion.

On the contrary, a charge made to produce a big bang and tons of smoke is much more effective.

1/ Everyone will run everywhere after the bomb explodes.

2/ Smoke will confuse the fuck out of the place.

3/ Nobody will pay attention to you running out of the store with whatever over-expensive goods you had in your hands (it even unlikely people hear you, since they'll likely be screaming to death anyway).

And even if someone notices you/screams at you/tries to stop you; the whole situation will be wayyyyyy too chaotic for anybody to try to pursue you.

The chance of getting arrested is close to zero. Even if you got racked up, you can just pretend to have "tested your luck" or "i didn't realize i was still holding <thing>, i was stunned by the blast !" or "i feared for my life so i ran, just forgot to return the item later".

Think it out, it's possible to divert attention in such a way nobody will give a fuck about some dude running off.

[festergrump]

Locally to me, the piggies are looking to charge a couple of kids with "Domestic Terrorism" under the new homeland security laws because they let about 15 fire hydrants run free in a time of drought as a prank.

Now you're telling us that by setting off a charge which makes a "big bang" and "tons of smoke" in a mall (full of people, even) to abscond with some "over-expensive" goods (and I just gotta quote this):

The chance of getting arrested is close to zero.

You are completely delusional. Send us a postcard from Guantanamo.

[DarknessCloses]

Someone earlier said the ATMs run OS/2. Well, if they are using OS/2 you could probably modify an existing root kit (kernel-level of course). Basically what a root kit does is execute code from a very well-hidden location. If you could upload it with a fake card or something (I know nothing of the "access" stage with ATMs). Hide an OS/2 virus that gives you admin/root and you'd be set.

OK, this little theory is pretty out there so bear with me. Another thought is since you'd be on the bank's network you could possibly use a 'Cain and Abel' type tool (network password sniffer) for OS/2 to gain access to the bank's network logins. Imagine if, once you learned the shell code to get the ATM to spit out money, you got every ATM on the network to spit out cash. It would be absolute anarchy.

you can find a list of rootkits at www.rootkit.com

[Jacks Complete]

The odds of somehow getting executable code into an ATM via the card slot are vanishingly small. Even getting it past the checksum is going to be tricky.

You would have to find some sort of buffer overflow exploit, in order to get the card code to run, rather than just be a number in memory space. Pretty unlikely.

As for rootkits, they basically corrupt the very lowest level of the system to your whim. Virus scanners and anti-spyware tools that run on the system cannot do anything, since the rootkit can simply send the correct response to the program, when the real answer should be entirely different.

[fiknet]

When looking at ATM's most are heavily enclosed however I noticed some, mainly the portable ones that aren't built in and some have their phone lines exposed, I thought, while it would be hard, you could perhaps plug a laptop into the line and some how emulate the server software and allow you to withdraw all the money. Of course emulating the server seems real difficult as you have no access to the software however perhaps some packet monitoring software may be able to help get your foot in the door.

[Jacks Complete]

It's going to be well encrypted traffic you are sniffing, so good luck with that.

I'd suggest looking for a weakness in the system with something like a replay attack, wherein you use the same stolen card 20 times to remove £250 at a time, and play the original authorisation back each time. Except that it wouldn't work if the designers had as much of a clue as your average web designer or car maker.

Physically stealing either the card or the entire machine is going to be easier for the vast majority of people.

I still keep hoping to see a card skimmer in place so I can help myself to it.

[nbk2000]

Actually, Jacks, a lot of the small stand-alones, like those found in convenience stores, use dial-up to connect to the network, and use unencrypted packets to do so.

There was a guy in england who had a bug on the lines of a lot of ATM's, recording the audio, and later decoding it on a laptop to retrieve account info and PIN's. :)

[Unsunghero]

Ok, well looking at a few articles, news reports etc I've found some interesting stuff. Apparently they are not all OS/2 oriented as you can tell from this article.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/11/25/nachi_worm_infected_diebold_atms/

So at least *some* of them have XP on them, this worm seems to have cut packet flow, which would isolate it from at least..the bank's alarm. Looking further into, the ones that ARE OS/2 have a FTP server exploit to DoS them. Get a few more PCs via viruses, worms, whatever you could DDoS an ATM or multiple ATMs. After a massive DDoS attack knocks them off the network, same effects :D.

Another thing this says is yes, the ATMs are connected to external computer networks at the bank. As darknesscloses said you could cause anarchy if you found a way to make it spit out money, set off the bank alarm, etc. A way this could be possible is to put a packet-monitoring device on the network cable. Right now I'm researching it but I havn't been able to find anything.

[Keserian]

The easiest way to get a packet monitoring device would be to pose as a repair man, and put a 'vampire' tap on the line. Not sure if you can put a vampire on a line that's in use without killing the signal or causing interference that would do the same. The problem with a lot of interference is that it would cause a network tech to be sent out, and a random vampire tap on a line where there is no normal reason for one would put up red flags.

The question is, how do they update the software on the machines? If it's updated through the web, you could do some fun with ARP poisoning and the Windows Update system. Simply get onto the network from the inside and run ARP poisoning. Rather than sending the ATM to the Windows Update website, it gets sent to a website of your choosing. You can then get it to download Windows Updates that have your rootkit embedded in them. With the rootkit, you could do just about anything you want with the machines OS.

The real prize isn't the money, I think. The real prizes are the bank cards. Simply store the bank card numbers, then either have the machine send it to a server you have access to (preferably illicitly, to mask your identity). Then you can download it at your leisure from wherever you can get anonymous internet access.