poor chickens

[bonnsgeo]

look what some americans farmers are doing to chickens.


http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/prefs.asp?chgpref=1&video=kfc_cruelty_usa


...no comment....

[vulture]

Frankly, I've lost all faith in PETA and other animal rights associations.

They are so extreme and narrow minded. For example, there are numerous cases in Europe (I bet in the US too) where scientists were attacked which were doing humane cancer research on apes, mice, rabbits etc. These scientists were labeled as "murders", their cars have been destroyed, their homes have been sieged by these nutcases, etc etc.

Most of these people are just lazy, dumbass losers who are either too stupid or lazy to work and so instead they go on a rampage. Then they get public support because it's a just cause..:mad:

Gimme a break.

You can't kill a few rabbits, but you can terrorize people and halt scientific research that might save millions of people?

EDIT: HILARIOUS movie in your sig :D

[A-BOMB]

I bet they all just ate at KFC, and who the hell cares how they killed the chickens as long as they'er cooked when it gets onto my plate.

[zeocrash]

wasn't there a huge animal rights debate in here about 6 months ago. i think we all decided back then that very few people gave a crap, not meaning to offend anyone who believes that kinda stuff

[Tuatara]

I support WSPA, witha $25 a month donation. They're not anti-vivisectionists, they don't bomb scientists cars. What they do is rescue animals from circuses (eg chimps, bears, dolphins), they go after cruel practices like bear-bile farms in China, and dog fighting. They provide veterinary aid in places like Iraq and Bosnia to help the locals look after their donkeys etc. they support wildlife rescue centres worldwide

Here's a link for those who are interested :World Society for the Protection of Animals (http://www.wspa-international.org/)

[zaibatsu]

I don't usually agree with animal rights groups, and this one is no exception. In the hillarious huge pig bit (how can you not laugh at it? I'm positive I've seen people like this round here) they state "The pig is moved onto its back and its throat is cut bringing a painful end to the tragic and cruel life it has been forced to endure" I don't believe cutting it's throat would be too painful, not more than methods used to kill farmed animals at the moment.

Also, I don't agree with problems with intensively farmed chickens etc, they're just animals. Also this: "Freedom from fear and distress: by ensuring conditions and treatment which avoid mental suffering" FOR A FUCKING CHICKEN! Goddamn, these people must have so much time on their hands to concern themselves with things like this. Yes, I support a choice when it affects the quality of the meat, but the choice must remain, because not everyone can afford to pay for the added costs of more space etc. Also, it promotes the idea that animals are in some way as important as humans, or even on a comparable level, which I don't believe is true.

I also have no problem with any bloodsport, so do not support it's view on bullfighting.

Having said this though, everyone has an opinion, and it's good when people are like you, and only mention it at an appropriate time, rather than trying to convince people all the time.

[Tuatara]

I'm glad you appreciate that I'm not an animal rights evangelist. And I'm sure that even wspa stick their noses in where they shouldn't, sometimes. But I believe that some farming practises are unneccesarily cruel, such as battery hens. Ever had free-range eggs? I'm fortunate enough to have the space in my yard for 4 hens, they run freely round my property, and give me 4 big tasty eggs every day. And guess what - even taking in the cost of feed, the eggs only cost 2/3 what battery farmed eggs retail for. And then there's the entertainment value of chickens - they are so funny! I had no idea until I owned some.

Personally I put humans on an equal footing with other animals - we are an integral part of a huge biological engine. Still, everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I respect that.

I happily eat meat, I'm glad I'm at the top of the food chain, just so long as the animals I'm eating get their fair shot at a reasonable life.

[zaibatsu]

My family has connections with agriculture, so from an early age when visiting relatives I was able to eat free range eggs, chicken, turkey, homemade cream, organic vegetables and other goodies. However, I can't understand how you can justify eating another animal if we are indeed on an equal footing with them? You are putting your need to live higher than theirs, therefore creating an inequality. Unless of course you feel you are merely filling a role in a food chain, but still you are distorting the natural food chains, by selectively breeding animals when they would usually be suppressed by predators.

Organic food, if healthier, does bring into play important questions. Because the state feels the need to provide a "safety net" of healthcare for people, would it give long-term advantages for them to subsidise organic food for poor people, giving them better health in the long term and so reducing the amount of money spent on them for healthcare? But then, you have to realise the underlying principle of economics, that resources are limited. Taking that into account, resources have to be used at their most efficient, which would mean that battery farms are the way to go. There is more I could say on the subject, but I'm sure it will just bore people.

[GibboNet]

I get a page not found error on that link, but I know pretty much what it's about.

I understand that those battery chickens might not have the best life, but they're food aren't they ? Taking it to that simplest level, food doesn't have rights.

I love a nicely cooked chook, and the local 'charcoal chicken' and KFC get regular visits. While there is some slight sympathy there for the chooks, that's not nearly as important as my dinner. :p I don't want to pay a higher price for chicken, just to give the chooks a better life, when they're ust being bred for food anyway.

As to animal protection agencies, I support the protection of endangered species, I want diversity in my surroundings, and it's a shame so many species are wiped out... still, chickens aren't exactly endangered.

[nbk2000]

Do chickens exist as wild animals in nature? If so, where? As far as I know, they've been domesticated livestock for millenia, and would likely not exist now if not for their usefulness as food, since they'd otherwise be pests to be eradicated.

Any animal that's going to end up as a meal doesn't deserve "rights", since the only right I'd be concerned with (as a chicken) would be the right to not be eaten.

Also, notice how it's only well-to-do whites that worry about "animal rights". How many poor people, or muds, do you see protesting about animal rights and clear-cutting of forests? I can't remember ever seeing one on TV or in the papers. It's only people with too much time on their hands who've got the luxury of worrying about some animals feelings. :rolleyes:

[Tuatara]

I don't see any contradiction in my position. Everything eats something. Farming animals for food can be done in such a way that the animals live an easy, healthy life - better than their wild counterparts. At the end of the day the price of that easy life is that you become food. It is inflicting needless cruelty or stress that I object to. You wouldn't do that to people (well, maybe some of you would) so don't do it to animals - -thats what I'm referring to by 'equal footing', (perhaps respect might be a better word).

Farming is a neccessary part of human civilisation, and we're not the only creatures that do it - ants are a common example, farming the aphids on your roses!

Oh, NBK, there are wild chickens in Albany, just north of Auckland. Not native, but definitely wild!

[Kid Orgo]

Perhaps there are good animal rights organizations out there, but PETA can suck my ass until I bleed.
The reasons are too many to list, but I think mainly I just hate their better-than-you attitude.

People bitch and bitch about things being "natural", but nature is nothing to emulate. (There's a great utilitarian paper out there, Jeremy Bentham, i think.) Tiger kills elk: Natural. Person kills elk: cruel? No way. Nature is murder and violence. It's the same deal with this deep ecologist bullshit about equilibrium with Nature and being the only animal on the planet that can't reach it. Every animal on the planet reproduces and expands with no regard for sustainability. If you don't kill enough deer, they'll breed until they reach a point when disease and starvation bring the numbers down. It's all viruses out there. Trying to put man on equal ground with nature is ridiculous.

The only reason one should refrain from cruelty to animals is that it makes you more likely to be cruel to people (a la Kant). That's it. Don't hit your dog, it makes you a worse person for it. So unless the chicken-killers are becoming insensitive to the pain of others, let the chicken-killing continue.

Organic Food: Me, I like organic food. Not because it's "natural" or some shit like that, it's just more wholesome and nutritious. I like knowing what goes into my macaroni and cheese, I like good meat. Maybe it's more expensive, but it's much tastier.

NBK: "weak animal rights" theory is what you're kind of treading on. If an animal is to die for food, it's just a matter of not making it suffer. In essence, weak animal rights theory says that it's worse to make an animal suffer without strong compelling cause than to just kill and eat it. My position on animal rights is outlined above. Moreso, poor people and "muds" don't protest about animal rights because ecological conscience is a luxury. It pays for itself, really, in some sense, but only if you're rich enough to make the initial investment and can afford to wait around for the financial benefits. You get to feel good about yourself, having saved the poor aminals. You get a "green" washing machine and save water. Yay! You also save money in the long run. Same goes for poor countries, USA, we can do green manufacturing and shake our fingers at poor countries polluting like motherfuckers to get their economies off the ground. Note; I'm not saying this is wrong, or right, or what. Honestly, i don't give a fuck about it. When i'm old and not a broke college kid, I'll buy green products and wrench my arm patting myself on the back, if only to save money. Right now, I can't afford an ecological conscience.

[jfk]

yeah, im all for people who put their lives on the line stopping rainforrest destruction, because im sure thats going to matter some time soon, since the rainforrests convert heaps of shit into oxygen for us. as for chickens, i dont really support either side, aye...

you can live your entire life without knowing or caring about it.

[john_smith]

All the animals rights stuff has really gone too far in my humble opinion. Though, I hate torturing animals just for the hell of it (most people doing it are assholes to other people too, the greatest cat torture expert I've ever known was also the second-ranking bully in his school, and, acoording to latest information, has now become a traffic cop :rolleyes: ) and clearcutting of forests (they're good for hunting, camping, etc. and I just plain like them anyway). And, as for ALF/ELF etc, anyone promoting anarchy, lawlesness and terror in these times of emerging police state(s) has already some points for them in my book:D

[Arthis]

Chickens raised with an easy life make better food. and better eggs. In terms of quality, they are somre criteria/conditions that one should respect: e.g. I was in Greece, and for a national day or something they were killing some sheeps. Killing one in front of the other is going to make them produce toxins (adrenalin, etc.) that make the meat less good. As goes for the way you kill the animal. Not more in my mind. Hey, they just have to accept their position of predator, or go with cows!

[bonnsgeo]

i couldn't imagine a "chicken's post" would have too many answsers :)

L:rolleyes:L

[a_bab]

"the greatest cat torture expert I've ever known was also the second-ranking bully in his school, and, acoording to latest information, has now become a traffic cop"

Well, IMHO the traffic cops are among the most stupid men. I know some guys who also found pleasure in torturing animals. They are extremly stupid aswell (almost retarded). So, my conclusion is that only an idiot would torture an animal. Your statement is confirming once again my guess.

[nbk2000]

I've tortured animals for fun, and I'm far from an idiot, so please avoid such gross stereotyping if you would, eh? :)

Though I concede the majority of animal killers are mentally defective in some way, since most serial killers and necrophiliacs tortured/killed animals in their childhood years, though not defective as in lacking intelligence, just self-restraint on the impulse to kill.

Wouldn't you rather have him killing feral cats than your daughters?

[a_bab]

Well NBK, you are an exception. Apparently my tendency is to clasify peple accordingly to my values, which is not good. Yes, I would rather prefer to have my cat killed instead of my daughter, and criminals are (sometimes) inteligent.

But at least you apply to my conclusion regarding cops inteligence, don't you ?

(Most definately. :D NBK)

[Ollie Snowie]

Quote:
Tiger kills elk: Natural. Person kills elk: cruel? No way.

I agree with you. The only reason why people think it is cruel for them to kill wildlife (and chickens) while a tiger doing the same thing isn't, is because peolpe are "intelligent" and predators aren't. I think a good whack on the head like some tiger turning up that can talk, write, read, knock on your front door, etc. and still hunts elks would put an end to all this "animal cruelity prevention" because, if the tiger has shown itself to be "intelligent" then it is being cruel by killing elks when it could go back to eating grass :) ,and therefore should be killed, put in jail or whatever, and then we would be being cruel to it. Just goes to show, if you are a species that has the notion of "cruelity" then some of you will automatically think that there is way to much of this "cruelity" and go to extreme measures to stop it.
PS of course, if this intelligent tiger was more intelligent than the human, it might be quicker off the mark at performing the death sentence :D

[lil kiddy]

I think cat killers are sick! but they are not allways mentaly defected or just dam shycos, this guy in my scince classes, he went out every night to find cats, shoot them with bb guns, he 1ce cort one and naild its leggs to a pece of wood, then left it ther to bleed to death. i think that is just rong, and unnecicary. And this guy was not thick, but on the lines of chickins, they are soon to be killed so it dosnt realy matter. bettor conditions would lead to better food tho?

[knowledgehungry]

Do you know what I think is even worse than torturing cats like that? Torturing everyone who knows English by using such hideously bad grammar and spelling, after reading your post I'd almost prefer to be the cat than see my language raped. Personally I do believe that people who kill animals in a way to cause unnescessary pain for fun do have psychological issues. But that's not because of "the poor kitty" it is merely because people who get pleasure from inflicting pain normally have issues, and the step from animal to human has been crossed too many times. Once you get bored of torturing animals the next logical step is people so thats why I am against unnescessary torture, blowing up stray cats or dogs on the other hand is different, thats amusing and not really about inflicting pain so much as seeing explosives work.

[nbk2000]

lil kiddy


he 1ce cort one and naild its leggs to a pece of wood, then left it ther to bleed to death


So, he crucified a cat, eh? Would that make it a "leopard Messiah"? :D (Apologies to Metallica for the pun. Don't sue me!)


Once you get bored of torturing animals the next logical step is people so thats why I am against unnescessary torture, blowing up stray cats or dogs on the other hand is different, thats amusing and not really about inflicting pain so much as seeing explosives work.


What a wonderful job at self-justification. :rolleyes:

On the one hand you say that people who torture animals have "issues", yet than finish the sentence by saying that blowing up strays is "amusing". You can blow up a tree stump and see explosives work. The use of a living thing as a target is about killing it and the feeling of god-like power, otherwise you'd use something that wasn't alive as your target in the first place, right?

Admit that you're an animal torturing/kill junkie freak like the rest of us and be happy about it. :) There's no shame brother...free your mind from the shackles society has put on it, saying that cat killing is evil!

Also, use a paragraph break once in a while, OK? Thanks in advance.

[knowledgehungry]

Well I don't like to see the animal in pain so much as in pieces;) .I for one am quite fond of felines, I have one of my own which prolly explains my aversion to cat cruelty, dogs on the other hand are annoying slobbery creatures, but i still dont advocate unnescessary cruelty towards animals. Then again I'm not particularly offended by people who do, sadists are people too:p.

Yeah. I'm sorry about my tendency to avoid starting new paragraphs, I look kinda dumb correcting someone else's grammar/spelling then writing a huge run on paragraph.

[Anthony]

I don't disagree with these stories of "cat torture" because I'm a hippy, or some middle-class conservationist that gets a warm fuzzy feeling from thinking I've made a difference, but as a cat owner, if someone did something like that to one of my cats, I'd rip them apart.

Thinking about it, if I came across someone in the street doing such a thing, I'd probably stop them anyway.

Nailing a cat to a board sounds pretty unlikely to me, unless the guy was extremely determined and didn't mind parting with a significant amount of his skin.

[vulture]

Ironically, there was a documentary about cats on the NGC, explaining why cats are such succesful predators. It also discussed the danger of the overpopulation of cats to the wildlife population in many areas of the world.

A british wildlife society asked cat owners to note down the prey their cat had catched....There were cats that killed as much as 7 rabbits, 30 birds and some other small animals in two weeks! :eek:

I'd like being a cat. :D
No work, no fuzz, getting feed, some hunting for fun, etc...

[bonnsgeo]

cats are so beautiful and (sometimes) so intelligents animals. Mine is able to open doors :) its really funny to see. He jumps and turn the handle of the door and he come in the room :).

In all case: DONT TORTURE ANIMALS ! if u must kill one, kill it quickly.

Whether you choose to risk airing an opinion attacking someone is your choice, but making it in the form of a simple insult, with no rationalisation shows a lack of descretion on your part. Feel free to post it again if that's definitely what you want to say, but I've edited your post in case you didn't realise how it might be taken by others - Anthony

bye

[tmp]

I don't agree with sadistic torturing of any living thing. If the intention is to kill
then do it quickly. As far as chickens go, they're near the bottom of the food
chain. And they're tasty to boot ! Anyone who says that animal-rights activists
have too much time on the hands is absolutely right. Wildlife management in
the last century has saved some species from extinction but the bag limits on
deer in the United States has resulted in overpopulation in some areas causing
death by starvation, disease, and ever increasing collisions with motor vehicles.

[arm]

Before I start, I would like to state that I’m not an animal rights activist or a vegetarian. I know its long but please read and comprehend what I have to say before 'Jumping to your guns'.

A scenario:

One day, Aliens, 'Beings from Outer Space' or whatever you want to call them come to our earth. They all possess IQ’s far greater than any human and exhibit an even greater range of emotions than us. In fact, they are so far in advance of us that we appear to them as say, mice would appear to us. They begin killing us in the most cruel and vile ways imaginable, deriving great pleasure from doing so, not even able to conceive of the pain and torment that they are inflicting. To them we just appear as mindless automaton and in fact, they are so far in advance that we may as well be.

It irritates me when I read people talk about how important and great humans are, that we are completely different to animal kind. Remember, humans are just a natural extension - an evolvement of other creatures. We have simply evolved higher intelligences and exhibit a greater set of emotions (survival instincts). Some cite our greatest achievements as art and music. To our alien friends above, our best examples of art would probably appear to them as the drawings of chimps and our finest musical compositions would probably sound to them just as the pings of a connecting modem sound to us. The reason we see these things as great Is because they were created to stimulate human neural patterns.

I believe, (along with other scientists/philosophers) that the universe is a deterministic place, and humans are no exception to this rule. The thing we cherish known as 'Free will' is just an illusion. Human minds are in effect just biological computer programs, we take an input run it through an algorithm and output the result. Ex hypothesi, given the current laws of Physics, Chemistry, Biology, Mathematics, Cognative and Computer Sciences. we are no less automatons than the rest of animal kind.

I too have a cat, and, although I can not prove it, it is fairly obvious that he possess a good range of emotions and I know when he becomes distressed. Thus these quality’s are not unique to humans. Any cat lover will tell you that each feline has a character all of its own. So clearly personality is not limited to humans either.

My ultimate point I suppose is this, don’t make assumptions that animals feel no pain or that it somehow doesn’t matter, because if it doesn’t then it implies from what I have said above that human suffering is just as irrelevant. (Note - I’m not saying animals are our equals). Eating meat is a fairly essential part of a humans diet and thus survival but a painful slow death is not.

Deriving pleasure from a slow painful death – most definitely not.


PS.

Kid Orgo states that:

Same goes for poor countries, USA, we can do green manufacturing and shake our fingers at poor countries polluting like motherfuckers to get their economies off the ground.

The US is by far the largest environmental polluter in the world at this point in time. And if you want to have the best impact on problem everyone knows that you examine the greatest cause first.

[scarletmanuka]

I think the important thing to remember with animals is respect. I myself have eaten countless animals and shot many feral pests ie roos, rabbits feral cats and foxes, if it means protecting our livelyhood. But I have always ensured it is done in a humane way. No one can deny that hunting is fun, but hunting for hunting's sake is a little out of touch with our role in the food chain. I don't know of any other animals that kill for fun.
Unfortunately many people go the other way and are hell bent on stopping the 'slaughter' of animals. Our national icon the kangaroo has grown to plague proportions since the arrival of white man to Australia, However, many city people are lacking any degree of intelligence when it comes to furry animals, and want and end to the culling of kangaroos. Lets see what they think about that a few years down the track when we have no farms left due to them being over run by roos.

[crackedchemist]

The PETA people are right. Dont eat animals or hurt them. Hurt the PETA people and eat the PETA people instead!! But on a seriouse side if theres say a wolf thats hungry and you stumble across it in the woods what would it do? Yea thats right it would attack you chew you up and eat you! Would it care whether or not you were in pain before it got a meal? I highly doubt it.

[Blackhawk]

But the thing is that humans rarely kill for food, at least small animals like cats. If you were intentionally putting an animal in pain then I would say that is wrong (unless the little bastard deserved it, face it humans are inherintly violent as animals and most people enjoy killing in one form or another, such as CS players, it is a throw back to our predatory instincts)

If we want to lower the roo count in AUS we need to make it legal to eat them (I don't think it is, in NSW anyway) and then convince tourists it is a national delicacy, that or make them pet animals so genarations are sold to annoying little families and then neutered and their wild instincts are breed out.

[xyz]

I have eaten kangaroo meat at a restaurant in Queensland so it is legal there...

Roo meat can also be bought around where I live (W.A.) but it is not very good quality and is usually used for pet food.

[arm]

I think we can get kangaroo here in the UK, I've never tried it though.

What does roo taste like anyway?

[Anthony]

Surely if the aliens were so intelligent, then they would understand the pain they caused us? Would their vast range of emotions not include empathy?

I know for a fact that roo leather is used commercially.

BTW, I don't think that anyone is arguing that animals cannot feel pain or distress.

[arm]

I was attempting to create a hypothetical scenario where we were the animals, a sort of 'scaling up' excersize since a lot of people perceive (other) animals as just automata. I then implied that if they are automata then, since human brains operate by the same mechanics (just scaled up) then we would be to.

I was just trying to evoke some 'thinking outside the human box' really.

Would their vast range of emotions not include empathy?

Since emotions are just evolved survival instincts, its pretty rational to think that they may have a completely difference set of emotions we could not comprehend. Besides, humans have empathy and yet we still inflict pain.

[xyz]

arm, I'm sorry but I can't really give you an accurate description of what roo tastes like, it was about 8 years ago and I can't really remember the taste.

IIRC (which I probably don't) it tastes like beef but sort of... different...

One of the other Australian members may be able to give you a better description.

[Flake2m]

It tastes like chicken :D
Some farmers dont realise that to be a successful farmer you have to have respect for what you are farming, and the environment around you.
Seeing pictures of those battery hens just goes to show that some people really dont care.
Australia produces some of the best wheat, the best lamb and the best beef. Why? Because the farers have respected their produce. Australian farmers are now beginning to realise how much damage they have done to the environment in the past and are now diverting resources to fix it.
While farming is a business, like any other business you can't make a profit if you workplace is shoddy. It just makes me wonder how those farmers get away with making any money at all considering the condition their produce is in.