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View Full Version : Accurate, Long Range SC's?


Cricket
September 14th, 2003, 08:19 AM
I have thought for a while about the accuracy of Shaped Charges. Does anyone know anything about the accuracy of a SC? Of course there would be determining factors (angle, cone material, size, confinement, ect.), but in theory, could these be used from a good distance? If so, this could hold very much potential. For example, say I am a guerilla fighter. My enemy tends to walk in single file lines. I could set up a charge aimed through a well known trail with a trip wire and a length of detcord to the SC (maybe several). This would have the potential to destroy many targets at once, human, and machine alike (well, mostly). And if they are too inaccurate to be used for this, would there be any way to make them more accurate, in flight or before detonation? Maybe a very long, very tough funnel, like a choke on a shotgun? Just an idea thats been floating around for a while. Thanks.

DBSP
September 14th, 2003, 10:25 AM
Allthough I am not shure I don't belive that the jet will survive any longer distances before getting scrambeled up. It should be somewhat accurate though.

What you want is an EFP.

Anthony
September 14th, 2003, 11:57 AM
Yes, I believe the jet thins out and breaks up over distance.

Not sure why you'd want to attack troop lines with shaped charges though, since that one charge will only take out one person. The same explosive charge propelling 4x its weight in frags could take out many persons. Even with vehicles this would still be better unless they're significantly armoured.

Maybe an EFP would be more like what you're thinking of?

knowledgehungry
September 14th, 2003, 03:03 PM
I think what he meant is that an SC could have the potential to go through many people, if they were in single file, not very practical tho IMHO, a claymore is better.

nbk2000
September 14th, 2003, 03:54 PM
Usually, shaped charges are rated by how many inches of Rolled Homogenous Armor (RHA) it can penetrate, but cricket gave me an idea for a new testing standard, and we wouldn't even have to change the abbreviation!

It's be the number of RHA (Rag Head Abdulla's) the charge could penetrate. :D

Line up 10 RHA's, tied together, and fire off the charge. The number of RHA's that the jet completely penetrates is its effective rating. If the charge penetrates all 10 RHA's, line up 20 and repeat the experiment! ;)

James
September 14th, 2003, 04:17 PM
I think what you are looking for could be accomplished with a launched (conical) shaped charge which would be triggered at some distance from hitting the point guy.

TreverSlyFox
September 14th, 2003, 07:09 PM
For what you describe "single file column of troops" the best tactic would be claymores in a "V" pattern along the trail. For best effect an MG should be at the point of the "V" to rake over any survivors.

One of our nasty ambushes in Nam was to mount 3 claymores about 10' off the ground in trees on each side of the trail pointing slightly downward (about 45 degree angle). Charley and us were so busy watching the ground for trip wires and mines that we'ed forget about "UP" in the trees. This is much better used command detonated rather than a trip wire so the point man doesn't set it off. With an M60 MG set at the point of the "V" not much will survive after the first 30 seconds.

This setup is best used at a turn in the trail especially with a long streach before the turn. Set the MG up at the turn and your claymores set about 50-100 yards out (point man will be anywhere from 20-75 yards out depending on terrain so his hand signals can be seen). The claymores set with a spacing of about 50 feet between them or whatever you can get. The leads are brought back to the camoed MG emplacement, once the main body of troops is in the blast zone the MG spotter trips the claymores and the fun begains.

Trever

Cricket
September 16th, 2003, 01:59 PM
Yea, an EFP would probably be better for that instance. But this idea might still be usefull. What if someone had a LSC 6-8" off the ground at the end of a hallway? Heh heh, poor guys would leave bloody little nub prints everywhere after their feet were seperated. Might not be as deadly as a claymore, but it'd be good if someone didn't what them dead, just immobilised. If it was meant to be deadly, they could just move it up 4 or 5 feet. Anyway, maybe someone can think of a good idea for one.

Mr Cool
September 25th, 2003, 12:40 PM
IIRC, SC's made with a pressed or spun (ie, one piece of metal) liner still had significant penetrating abilities at short ranges (1m was the range mentioned, but I forget how big they said the SC was), whereas SC's with sintered cones did not.

Cyclonite
September 26th, 2003, 09:57 AM
A shape charge is simply not effective at any other distance than the one is should be used for. A more useful charge would be a platter charge, the military uses these at longer distances. The cone is thicker and just molds into a large spike and hits the target at a longer distance.

DeviantSaint
September 26th, 2003, 03:17 PM
I'm not very familiar with shaped charges as I was not an engineer. However, I've done ambushes in the hindu-kush of afghanistan and we used claymores in conjunction with small arms. However, a large part of that has to do with the terrain. The hindu kush is very verticle with narrow passes and canyons. Very little foliage and loose, soft rock. (looked like sandstone to me).

IMO claymores are the way to go with an ambush. Command detonated to start the party off with and then mop up with small arms. If small arms aren't availible then perhaps a series of explosion might be the way to go. However, I personally would opt for an explosive version of shoot and scoot tactics. Lay your expediant ambush, detonate, withdraw, track, lay, detonate.

etc etc etc.

Again though, I had access to small arms and employed those instead.


On another thread about claymores there was a question of wether the mines have "front towards enemy" on them.. they do.. however, my team had a habit of taking a magic marker and writing "if you can read this you're fucked." on the forward side. We also would put smiley faces on the HEDP 40mm grenades... But I digress.

Claymore mines are emplaced with the convex side towards the enemy. (or at least that's how I was trained). I've not seen a trip wire claymore used, however that is more a matter of JAG and the current anti-mine sentiment than anything else I believe. Command detonated claymores are still standard use stuff.

Btw, love the site. I'm really intrigued by the concept of mini-grenades and mini-mores. I'm suprised that I haven't seen anything for an improvised PDM yet.

Perhaps I just haven't searched enough.

Thanks.

-DS

nbk2000
September 27th, 2003, 01:35 AM
Apparantly you haven't searched, otherwise you'd have found several threads on the subject of an IPDM.