Federal Agents,We Have a Warrant,Open Up!

[wrench352]

If you choose to pursue this hobby at any level,its only a matter of time before you attract some kind of attention.I bet there is a fed who's job it is just to check this board and others like it.
Accidents happen,slip ups made,the best laid plans of mice and men,yadda,yadda,yadda
arrogance,ego are contributing factors-it cant happen to me,I'm too smart.
plan for failure-but to what extreme-how far underground can you go and still pursue your interests?
I've been busted before when I was younger but not by Feds.Cops at the local level and even the state level are overworked,underpaid,work on tips(info not $)and perform an invaluable service to the community.These guys are not my chief concern.However in these strange days we currently live in,it seems to me it if you get put on one watch list you get put on them all.
First things first,know your neighborhood.who lives where and who drives what.I think the first thing the man thinks of now a days are drugs.In my general area there have been several clandestine drug labs busted recently.IIRC meth labs have a strong destinctive smell,local cops might not knock on your door.They will visit and check things out without your knowlege.I had this happen when I used to grow tomatoes,I never knew till there was a full blown investigation.This does not mean entering your place without your knowlege as this is illegal.This is everything but.Poking around your yard(if you leave your gate open),looking over your fence to see whats in plain view or going through your trash.If they dont find anything,the investigation might end there,but dont count on it.Cops will give you enough rope to hang yourself with.
The first thing I did when I got paranoid was to burn everything potentially incriminating.Second I vary my trips home as much as possible.I'd rather turn myself in to my lawyer than be led off in handcuffs.This also gives time to get your story straight.
NBK has a great treastise on cacheing in his book,it wont be discussed here.I do this as much as is feasable.
Get everything even remotely incriminating out of your place,if the cops go to the trouble of raiding your place they will try to hang you on anything.
Strange but true stuff the cops seized while investigating me(two cases,two states):a fire helmet,high times,hustler,a compound bow,a crossbow,a growlight(obviously not used w/no bulb),various pipes,a bong.I got everything back but the firehelmet and pipes/bong.Even the growlight.I was never charged with the parapanelia as it didnt have anything to do with the investigation.Murder if you need to know.
Feds I have no dealings with,I know not to talk to them but to go through my lawyer.Truth be told they scare me.These guys are college graduates,very smart, probably with strong chem backgrounds if they are investigating you.You better have your story straight.Also every person I know that did get in trouble,did so because they could'nt keep their mouths shut.Consider also what your neighbors would say,if feds do get involved they will most certainley canvas you neighborhood for info.Time to tone down the whole mad scientist/bomber thing,huh?
It also seems to me that diskscrubbers/diskwipes are no good at all,If your going to store info on electronic media a detachable hard drive is the way to go.It all depends on how bad the feds want you,which depends on how much you have to lose and what you have to offer.
because these guys do have limited resources and bigger fish to fry, if you do wind up on their radar expect to stay there for 6months to one year depending on how you come off and their workload.From the time I bumped into a narc to the time they kicked in my door at 4am was about 8months.Just long enough to think the heat was off,they still got nothing at the raid.Thats another good point too,they like to raid you in the middle of the night or early in the morning-something to think about.Undercovers have a tendency to stick out,cant put my finger on it.If things dont "seem" right they probably arnt.Back in my grateful dead days you could spot em pretty easy,they just didnt belong.I know this isnt helpful,go with your instinct.If it doesnt feel right it aint,I cant stress that enough.
I get the feeling this is too long-I'm sure others have plenty to add

[chemwarrior]

Nice little write up, though you should have put some more thought into wording.

Good advice in there though. Im sorry I dont have much to add to it, though that anyone with incriminating things that arent needed daily, SHOULD cache them. As you said, NBKs PDF has good information on how to do so.

[nbk2000]

Hmmm....where to start?


First things first,know your neighborhood, who lives where and who drives what.


RTPB 62. Know the area around your house like the back of your hand.


Poking around your yard(if you leave your gate open),looking over your fence to see whats in plain view or going through your trash.


RTPB 53. Buy video cameras and hide them outside your home so if anyone tries sneak up on you, you'll see them coming. Even 5 seconds warning can give you time to destroy evidence or get your gun.


The first thing I did when I got paranoid was to burn everything potentially incriminating.


RTPB none specific, but the whole RTPB is about not leaving any trace of evidence to be used against you. ;)


NBK has a great treastise on cacheing in his book, it wont be discussed here.I do this as much as is feasable.


RTPB 58. If it's illegal, and you don't need immediate access to it, bury it. You can dig it up when you need it.


Also every person I know that did get in trouble,did so because they could'nt keep their mouths shut.Consider also what your neighbors would say,if feds do get involved they will most certainley canvas you neighborhood for info.Time to tone down the whole mad scientist/bomber thing,huh?


RTPB 1. T NO Trust No One!

RTPB 20. When on trial, you'll never regret having kept your mouth shut when you were arrested.

RTPB Supreme Rule. ...Not even your neighbors should know that you are their neighbor...Remember, neighbors = problems.


It also seems to me that diskscrubbers/diskwipes are no good at all,If your going to store info on electronic media a detachable hard drive is the way to go.


RTPB 25. Keep ledgers and other financial records encrypted using PGP on a computer. Store the key in the self-destruct safe, and a PGP encrypted backup copy of the key buried in a public place you have 24 hour access to, like a park.


It all depends on how bad the feds want you,which depends on how much you have to lose and what you have to offer.


RTPB 19. Those who have the most to lose by being silent are the most likely to snitch.

6. The higher you are, the further you'll fall.


Because these guys do have limited resources and bigger fish to fry, if you do wind up on their radar expect to stay there for 6months to one year depending on how you come off and their workload.From the time I bumped into a narc to the time they kicked in my door at 4am was about 8months.Just long enough to think the heat was off,they still got nothing at the raid.


RTPB 2. C. Y. A. Cover Your Ass (at all times)!


Thats another good point too,they like to raid you in the middle of the night or early in the morning-something to think about.


RTPB 53. Buy video cameras and hide them outside your home so if anyone tries sneak up on you, you'll see them coming. Even 5 seconds warning can give you time to destroy evidence or get your gun.


Undercovers have a tendency to stick out,cant put my finger on it.If things dont "seem" right they probably arnt.Back in my grateful dead days you could spot em pretty easy,they just didnt belong.I know this isnt helpful,go with your instinct.If it doesnt feel right it aint,I cant stress that enough.


RTPB 13. Listen to your instincts. If you feel someone is lying, you're being set up, or you're going to get busted, you're probably right.

Everythings already covered by the RTPBs. 'Nuff said. :)

BTW, The PDF doesn't have the RTPB's included in it, I don't think.

[chemwarrior]

The copy I have doesnt, but I think that would be a pretty good addition to it. Also, if you ever decided to make a hard copy of it, that would make for an excellent front page(s).

[wrench352]

I've heard other forum member mention they were feeling heat from time to time.Currently I've got a wicked case of paranoia,so I thought it would make for good discussion.I cant wait to get the full NBK.PDF. lots of useful info there.
Interesting note,I just read today about how cops have many tools for breaking down doors yet are ill equipped to handle electric fencing.This can be bought cheap at farm supplies sold as hot wire.feels like bees are stinging you(I know from first hand)
There was alot I left out due to size plus I didnt want rehash stuff I already talked about.I just was thinking someone might kick out some good ideas we didnt talk about.I wonder about self destructing safe too,using explosives in the commision of a crime...


ps nbk in your pdf, about taking out bears in the air,wouldnt it be cheaper to use a barret .50?

[TreverSlyFox]

In at least part of this I have some experiance. Your right, if you stay in this activity long enough you'll attract attention sooner or later. You can bet your life that this board is being watched and archived by at least the Feds. I know for a fact that another board is and a post was used "verbatim" at a Federal sentencing hearing in the past 90 days. The post wasn't even made by the poor smuck being sentenced but by his daughter and it cost him some more time. If you post here, your on a list somewhere and they know who you are, where you live and most likely more than you know about yourself.

I can't stress this enough, if your questioned by LEOs, SHUT YOUR MOUTH! Say nothing more than your name and "I want a lawyer" PERIOD! You have no idea how many cases are made with the information from an interview. I can't count how many cases I made because the smuck didn't keep his mouth shut. ANY information at all tells me something, it may confirm something I already know or suspect. It may even be something I've not even thought of, but no mater what it is I can check it and most times I'll find out if it's a lie and then you've really got my undivided attention. If your lawyer isn't sitting next to you say NOTHING!

As far as the feds go, they'er just people like everyone else. Sure they have collage degrees but that doesn't make them Gods. There are good and bad ones, some couldn't find their butt with both hands and a map. I've seen BATF agents trying to unload a Makarov and looking for the mag release on the side of the grip (It's on the bottom of the grip) and give up in frustration. You'ed think BATF agents would know weapons and explosives but it isn't always true nor is it true of other LEOs. Their expertise is in investigation not tech they have experts for that.

LEOs may have you on their radar and they may be ready for that early morning no-knock raid. But they might kick in your neighbor's door instead of yours, it does happen and more and more frequently. The warrant may not be right or a hundred other things, just a mis-spelled name or wrong address can kick out any evidence they find (or bring with them).

Bottom line, don't help them make their case against you. Life is tough. Life is tougher if your stupid.

[megalomania]

I wrote this a few months ago, I haven't finished it yet, but I think it applies here :)

Guidelines to avoid persecution if you have a lab

There is a war on drugs going on out there, and the police don’t care who you are, as long as you have any chemical or bit of labware you are guilty in their eyes. The sheeple have been so incensed to panic by the police Gestapo that any scientific hobbyist will be perceived as little more than a criminal for the sheer possibility you might be a meth “cook” out to poison children.
Every chemical is used in making meth, every type of lab equipment is used to make meth. The Gestapo fears everything you could use in your independent scientific research. You cannot escape the stigma of being a meth cook, you must protect yourself as best you can.
There are certain types of activity “they” look for before calling in the swat team. I have written these guidelines to help you avoid having your skull crushed by the jackbooted thugs. It will take years, if ever, for them to give back your lab equipment, why risk having it stolen to begin with? They don’t care if you don’t make drugs, they don’t care if your innocent, they just want to smash, kill and destroy as many lives as possible. Just say no to the war on science!

Say nothing to no one about having a lab. Word of mouth travels fast, if you mention you have a lab it is guaranteed they will tell someone. Those who know you have a lab will always assume the worst: you make drugs or bombs. One must carefully explain to select people the nature of your scientific research so they do not jump to conclusions. Build a relationship with friends and neighbors so they know you are the intelligent experimenter next door, not a Jr Al Qaeda wannabe. If you do not know your neighbors it would be best to never reveal your lab, they will call the police. Remember, the ignorant masses have been brainwashed to consider all science as drug manufacturing or terrorism. Do not allow ignorance to destroy your hobby.

Avoid so-called suspicious activity. The government publishes propaganda for ignorant citizens about what to look for in a drug lab. This “suspicious activity” is what the nosy neighbor lives for. Such activity includes having people over late at night, and blacking out your windows so people cannot see inside. Indeed we live in a police state when our supposed freedom to congregate at any time we choose and to protect our privacy is considered suspicious. Nevertheless, avoid skulking around at night or covering up your lab if at all possible. Curtains on the windows are recommended, these are less suspicious.

Conceal all your trash thoroughly. As an independent experimenter you will need consumer chemicals, but since all chemicals are considered suspicious you must not let them be seen. A container as simple as an empty jug of antifreeze, or something as commonplace as a coffee filter is considered suspicious according to government propaganda. All jugs, bottles, vials, and containers of any kind that may have contained chemicals must be wrapped in garbage bags and securely tied. The trash should be placed in the bag away from prying eyes and securely wrapped such as to show no clue as to the contents of your trash. One may go as far as dumping smelly garbage such as food scraps to discourage pesky dumpster divers (they are out there) from poking through your trash. Try wrapping newspaper around the containers to foil casual searching or from being seen should accidental spillage occur, and wrap bags tightly to discourage them from being opened.

Allow no chemicals or equipment to be seen entering your home or lab. Just as it is important to protect your garbage, it is even more important to never let the brainwashed do-gooder see what enters you home or lab. All chemicals or equipment should be boxed, bagged, or otherwise obfuscated to prevent it from being seen. Bringing in a box can be considered suspicious (only terrorists use boxes). Make it seem like you are bringing in groceries or other bagged goods from the store. If at all possible bring stuff in at night, but don’t be bringing in things all the time, that is suspicious. Human curiosity at bags and boxes is a natural instinct, but far worse is the assumption at what a bottle of chemicals will be used for.

Avoid unusual odors

Avoid chemical purchases

Avoid haphazardly dumping chemical waste.

[wrench352]

If my posts earlier seem out of sorts,I'm not feeling well today,plus my old lady was bitchen in my ear(too much time on the pc)It seems to me State and local cops count on you to incriminate yourself but feds will go after you with more vigor.This is what were dealing with now, I assume the DEA would get wind of you first(ListII) and your name will get passed around from there.
Also with the cacheing I'll bury anything the cops could potentially use against me,legal or not ie 1500 rnds exotic ammunition,important precursurs etc

by the by Trevorslyfox are you a member of the constabulary?You sound it

[nbk2000]

There's all kinds of electric fencing. I've had the ag. type that'd shock you pretty good, but if you grab it hard, then it doesn't hurt. It was great fun watching cats hop up on the fence and come flying off with fur a flying! :)

The other kind I've seen was a lethal electric fence at several of the prisons I was in. That's a whole different ballgame there. I saw it happen a few times that a bird would land on one of the wires (not the top one) and be turned into charcoal in a flash of blue crackling light. :eek:

These fences aren't constantly powered. Instead, there's a low voltage pulse sent through about 16 times per second, rotating through the prisons perimeter. This is more than fast enough to catch you, no matter how quick you are, and once it does it kicks in the juice. That's several hundred amps at a 2,000 volts, same as the electric chair.

So far as I know, no ones ever been killed by it (except guards checking the wire! :D), likely 'cause no one wants to be the first. ;)

While this may be bad for prison escape attempts, it can also be a good thing. Since they installed the fences, there's no guards in the towers watching the perimeter any longer. This was helpful in an escape from a prison in georgia, where the inmates used brooms to lift the wire up high enough to crawl under it, and there were no guards around to see them. :p

If you're planning on dealing with piggies, that's the kind of fence you need, because the voltage will reach out and fry anything within 6" of the wire, no contact needed.

The ag fence charger was unable to penetrate even a butyl rubber glove.

As for using a barrett on a helicopter...

First, you'd have to hit a moving target. This may or may not be easy to do, depending on range/time of day-night, etc.

Second, you have to obtain one of these rifles. Legally, that'd be about $7,000. :eek: If it cost you $50 per line-throwing mortar, that'd be 140 mortars and 140 chances that the copter is going down, compared to 5 or 10 using the .50. Remember, plenty of helicopters have been shot, but very few go down, and this is in combat zones with HMG and AAA (think vietnam). However, pretty much any plane/helicopter that's hit a powerline or trolley cable has gone down. :D Something about wings being sheared off and rotors stopping does that to them. ;)

Also, though I've read about it and don't know if it's being done yet, I've heard of gun manufacturers test firing their weapons and sending the fired rounds (bullet and casing) to the FBI so it can be entered into their database before the gun is ever sold. This way, if it's used in a crime, the info is already in the database so they can start tracing your ass down from the get go.

Most feds are specialists. The guy tracking you down may not know jack-shit about explosives/drugs/etc, and the lab geek who does couldn't find his ass with a map and both hands. There's too much for them to know for them to know it all.

Anyways, there's been plenty of anti-piggy raid tactics discussed in other threads before, UTFSE to find them.

As for the RTPB, I've contemplated making the DVD centered around them, with the various articles popping up when you click on one of the RTPBs. But that's too restrictive, as there are things I wish to write about that aren't RTPB related.

[TreverSlyFox]

wrench352 asked:

"by the by Trevorslyfox are you a member of the constabulary?You sound it"


I'm a retired LEO/FFEMT.

[wrench352]

Trevorslyfox,anything to add about investigations/timelines,do you think I'm being accurate ie 6-8mnths from initial discovery.better said, your hot,investigated,found clean,how long should you still consider yourself hot?

NBK, how accurate do you think this statement is:
If you post here, your on a list somewhere and they know who you are, where you live and most likely more than you know about yourself.

by the way I consider myself a patriot from a longline of patriots,and I have no political affiliations whatsoever.I love my country.God bless George Bush.

[Bert]

Hmm. I've been reading this board for less than a month and
have seen 2 posters (TreverSlyFox, cameroneod)
who claim flat out to be current or ex
LEO or EOD- Including one who says he's here for work.

If true, some of you all need to seriously consider the
format of your postings.

I'm in the fortunate position of working under federal
and state licenses with what I do. Most of you don't have
that luxury. I'd never post a photo or description of an
activity I wasn't licensed, permitted and insured for.
(Of course, I've never done anything illegal either)

OK, TreverSlyFox, cameroneod- What do YOU think?
Hey, any other LEO's, EOD's, federal agents or
holders of ATFE type 20 or 50 permits out there?
Please feel free to chime in-

[nbk2000]

I would feel confident in stating that at least one FBI agent reads us on a regular basis. :)

That's what you get when you rise above the usual pond scum that consistutes the "bombz" scene. :D

[wrench352]

I pretty much assumed that,I even figure its an intern or a "Three days of the Condor" type researcher.Just wonder about the vigor with which they would pursue our identities,not that I have anything to worry about.

[megalomania]

Taking a practical look at the situation, we at The Forum are not exactly public enemy number 1. They may discourage our activities, but really we are a bunch of enthusiasts who enjoy making things go bang in a safe and responsible manner. The government does not have the manpower or the resources to worry about every man with a firecracker.

Are they watching? Hell yes, just in case somebody goes bad. I would think it very unprofessional of federal agents to not bother monitoring the small handful of pyro sites out there. There aren’t that many really, so why not keep one eye on them. They are at least aware of our existence I am sure, if you search for anything explosive related we will pop up on the search engines at some point.

I have never advertised The Forum in any way, and now we have nearly 4000 members. If 4000 people can find us, why can’t one of them be a fed? If they are smart they use The Forum as a resource to gauge the “scene” as it were. They likely use us as a yardstick to gauge available sources of information. Lets face it, if there is an ebook or website about explosives out there, somebody here will post about it.

Does that mean we as a community have to worry? No, as long as we maintain the status quo of enthusiasts they will tolerate our existence. And, of course, as long as the First Amendment continues to offer our community protection.

When that RTC fella blew up the shopping mall, how was it hundreds of people were able to connect us to him in a matter of hours? He only made a few posts here, but that was enough to encourage all the lookey loos to swamp the board. I can tell you who was first among them… On a side note, I wonder if the Finnish authorities are still “looking into” shutting sites like ours (probably just ours) down.

I would say the true test of The Forum’s mettle will come IF (I say if, NOT when) some regular here happens to detonate a device and kills a large number of people. Will this change anything? Will I have to alter my principals just because some demented person committed an evil act? I would hope the answer is no. I have always been aware of the possibility that someone may use our knowledge in a dangerous way, but you could say that about anything. To deny the existence of The Forum, or any type of knowledge for that matter, because of what someone might do is wrong.

My principles may be unshaken, but we would not be out of the woods yet. One of our members would have violated the status quo, going from enthusiast to outright terrorist. That puts us to the top of the list of things the government doesn’t like. That means resources will be granted, and manpower allocated against us. Are we suddenly wrong just because of one event? No, our rights to discuss what we do will still remain, what will have changed is opinion. Namely opinion of what to do with sites like ours. The feds will try to smear us, they will fight dirty, because they are one sided. As far as they are concerned our freedoms are just impediments to bringing criminal charges against the whole world. They are one sided in that they want to destroy anything they don’t like, freedom be damned.

They will try to bring criminal charges against the staff, saying we knew about the event and helped. They will bring charges against anyone who responded to the person’s messages saying you facilitated in a terrorist act. In the end the charges will come to naught! We discuss theoretical issues legally, as long as the bomber never actually states he is going to blow something up, we have no way of knowing, and thus are not going to be criminally liable for conspiracy. They will try anyway just to look like they are doing something. Remember, you don’t have to actually break the law to be accused, arrested, and what not. They just look good going after people, it makes it seem like they are doing something.

Now, I hope I haven’t scared anyone off with this rather gloomy exercise in what if’s. Should you worry about posting here? No, you should not worry. You are perfectly justified in discussing what you do. It is only if you happen to do something really bad that information posted here at The Forum can be used against you. The Forum exists to inform the law abiding, and that’s who we are. For those who break the law, you have other worries besides what was posted here.

[nbk2000]

I have to disagree with the "If, not when" part.

The RTC incident made it a when. Now it's just a matter of when the next one will be. Given how about 10% of the population is generally considered to have some kind of mental problem, then out of 4,000 members, that means we've got 400 weirdos here. ;)

If only one tenth of one percent of the population is psycho, than that's four nutjobs amoung us. Multiply that by our projected growth and the problem only gets worse, not better. Eventually it'll happen that someone will do something serious enough to draw the feds attention to us.

[Guerilla]

When that RTC fella blew up the shopping mall, how was it hundreds of people were able to connect us to him in a matter of hours? He only made a few posts here, but that was enough to encourage all the lookey loos to swamp the board. I can tell you who was first among them… On a side note, I wonder if the Finnish authorities are still “looking into” shutting sites like ours (probably just ours) down.

I dont think they are, if they ever even were to do that. They dropped the idea of restricting even the local forum(s) where the guy had participated more than here. None was accused of assisting him with the strike. All the "forum hunt" rumours are probably just blustering by some politician/reporter...

I find it rather hard one to charge this forum as a whole, because of some crime. I mean this isn´t any official organisation where every member would stand for one and the same trend of ideas. Which is a good thing of course. :)

[TreverSlyFox]

wrench352,

I'ed say your timeline is in the ballpark though it really depends on Who (Fed or Local), Why (your just a fringe element or your THE subject of intrest). If your a fringe element they'er not going to spend a whole lot of time on you unless they find something bigtime, unless they'er out to make an example of everyone involved in whatever they'er looking at. As far as how long you'ed be hot. It'll still depend on what they find out about you or what they think they've found out about you. Just remember that once your name comes up in an investigation it's never forgotten. All that info is put into a database somewhere.

If it's a local PD investigation they'er looking for major players. Investigations take time, manpower and money, and they'er not going to waste their limited budget unless they have some reason to see you as a major case (lots of press and a slam dunk conviction). Of course if your local prosecutor is up for re-election he may see even a small time case as a way to get some press time out of it.

In general the Feds aren't interested in someone playing with a few ounces of this or that. They have to justify their budget so they'er looking for big time players and big time press releases/coverage. The problem with the Feds is they have the budget, time and resources to give you a good going over if they think they can make a small case SEEM to be a big case.

With the aftermath of McVeigh and now 9-11 things have taken a decidedly turn-for-the-worse. The Patriot Act gave LEOs a whole lot of expanded powers and some prosecutors are really out for blood now. The Feds are really chomping at the bit and Ashcroft just sent word to all Federal prosecutors that he wants the Maximum in every case.

Of all the time in history this is the worse time to be involved in this activity. Most sheeple that would be on a Jury won't think twice about convicting a "bomber" or "bomb maker". Be very careful in your posts and keep them "dreams" or "theoretical". I'm sure many of you have seen the post in the Water Cooler by Total CDRW titled "It not good to brag but..." Now that's the kind of post that could start an investigation all by it's self. For some reason some people seem to think that they'er anonymous here rather than naked in front of a crowed yelling at the top of your lungs how bad a boy you've been. That post is a prosecutors dream, not just a confession but a public confession posted for all to see.

[Anthony]

I agree, it's amazing how many people think they're magically untraceable once they disconnect form the 'net. Even people connecting through a proxy are far from being guarranteed anonymitty.

We've probably got more the national average for pyschological disorders here, I just think our typical member is more prone to them. More intelligent people seem to be more at risk, just like an OC'ed computer running hotter will likely have more problems/failures.

That said, many pyschological "problems" are greatly exaggerated, and many afflicted people are fine, just not "normal" (define "normal" anyway:rolleyes: ).

[Bert]

Here's a dandy llittle article that any of you who have looked at or bought items
on e-bay should read... e-bay is NOT your friend (http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=264863&contrassID=2&subContrassID=5&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y&itemNo=264863)
Who needs a subpoena? "We don't make you show a subpoena, except in exceptional cases," Sullivan told his listeners. "When someone uses our site and clicks on the `I Agree' button, it is as if he agrees to let us submit all of his data to the legal authorities. Which means that if you are a law-enforcement officer, all you have to do is send us a fax with a request for information, and ask about the person behind the seller's identity number, and we will provide you with his name, address, sales history and other details - all without having to produce a court order. We want law enforcement people to spend time on our site," he adds. He says he receives about 200 such requests a month, most of them unofficial requests in the form of an email or fax.
The meaning is clear. One fax to eBay from a lawman - police investigator, NSA, FBI or CIA employee, National Park ranger - and eBay sends back the user's full name, email address, home address, mailing address, home telephone number, name of company where seller is employed and user nickname. What's more, eBay will send the history of items he has browsed, feedbacks received, bids he has made, prices he has paid, and even messages sent in the site's various discussion groups.

[WolverineAtWork]

I would say the true test of The Forum’s mettle will come IF (I say if, NOT when) some regular here happens to detonate a device and kills a large number of people. Will this change anything? Will I have to alter my principals just because some demented person committed an evil act? I would hope the answer is no.

I would hope that this forum would survive despite attacks against its subject matter. Many similar attacks are being made threatening wholesome hobbies that the sheeple have have been led to believe are evil. Assault rifle and machine gun shooting enthusiasts are constantly on the defensive regarding thier hobby. It makes me wonder when the masses are going to try and outlaw cutlery because some nut-job went psycho with a butcher knife. Obviously, this subject matter is much more likely to draw an enormous amount of attention, but then, that's the nature of explosions.

The next question is, what do we do to prevent or combat an attack on our right to congregate here on the net? Firearms have the NRA, shall we start up the Association of Pyromaniacs and Explosives Enthusiasts?

[Hang-Man]

The NRA takes enough heat. And guns are legal (just in case someone didn't know, building any pyrotechnic device, be it AP or a sparkler, is illegal) The "Association of Pyromaniacs and Explosives Enthusiasts" would be shut down before it started. Sad but true. I think the anarchists cookbook(full of shit as it is) would take more heat than us though.

[Bert]

(just in case someone didn't know, building any pyrotechnic device, be it AP or a sparkler, is illegal)

That's not as definite as you think-

In the US, MAKING and TESTING stuff is not illegal (at the federal level).
STORING and DISTRIBUTING stuff is, without proper license, inspected
and approved storage facility and proper record keeping.

Local laws vary widely.

[cameroneod]

Originally posted by Bert
OK, TreverSlyFox, cameroneod- What do YOU think?
Hey, any other LEO's, EOD's, federal agents or
holders of ATFE type 20 or 50 permits out there?
Please feel free to chime in-


Personally Im much more concerned about the really dangerous sites like Totse. Im not in the business of busting people for experimenting with or talking about explosives though. Most of the people here are actually very safety concious, which is my main concern. In my opinion, the only time the people on a forum, such as this, would need to worry is if there was a major bombing and the person admitted to receiving their information from this site. At that point Id expect an investigation (archive search) to find out if anyone gave information directly to the individual knowing what the outcome would be. Because most everyone here is relating past experiences (which will very rarely be a source of trouble) and hypothetical situations, there really isnt any need to be concerned. Just my .02 though, so take it with a grain of salt.

[bobo]

I find Totse a rather childish (or meant to be funny) site actually, and probably 99,9% of it's readers never do anything with the data found there. On this forum, the ratio of people who do anything more than blast 1 gram of AP is probably much higher, and it certainly looks professional.

The people who assess danger are possibly not capable of distinguishing between real danger and play, as I understand it is a very bad idea right now to joke about explosives at any American airport no matter how obvious the joke, and who knows what individual prosecutors might do in their bloody crusade for a safe world. In that sense, Totse will attract some heat and I remember that one guy was sent to prison in the US for linking to 'bomb making sites'. I never knew which sites those were, but probably these sites were not really serious by international standards. And anyone typing 'explosives' on a PTP software will find the same info.

Anyway, besides the 50% of the readers of this forum who are member of intelligence agency there may be one amateur terrorist raghead among us who found this forum and is going to blow up something with the info found here. It is very unlikely that any real terror network needs the info found here because it's standard chemistry knowledge that is merely collected and discussed here.

[megalomania]

I believe there are no qualifiers to information, info can't be bad, only those who use it. A terrorist raghead could just as easily be surfing a board about cattle immunization to learn how to spread a disease in the nations food supply. He could be at a cooking board learning how to hide poisonus leaves in a salad. Should those sites shut down because someone learned dangerous knowledge from them? Absolutly not, they had no idea how their knowledge was going to be used, just as we do not know how ours is to be used. We can only serve our knowledge with the intent that it be used for lawful scientific research or personal edification.

[cameroneod]

Originally posted by bobo
I find Totse a rather childish (or meant to be funny)

You should see the forums there. Some of those kids (who would be instantly banned here) take the info they get there very seriously.

[chemwarrior]

CameronEOD, how many sites do you monitor??

[nbk2000]

I don't know about him, but I monitor a number of "dense" sites myself, in accordance with the RTPB 61:

"Keep up with the latest technological advances in police and military science. You will be more aware of their abilities and may find an idea that that you can use yourself."

:)

Oh, and speaking of TOTSE, some dude came into my store earlier tonight asking if we sold dry ice to make "bombz" using 2 liter soda bottles. :rolleyes: Can't even escape k3wlZ in my real-world life.

No way in hell was I going to give him our URL, just being one more k3wl I'd have to eliminate in two weeks, so I gave him the URL to TOTSE and told him that they knew all about how to make "bang bottles". :D

What was scary is that this guy was at least in his early twenties. Sad...very sad...

[Sarevok]

Originally posted by cameroneod
Personally Im much more concerned about the really dangerous sites like Totse.
Totse?! :eek:
From the book of Jeremiah
They have stumbled in their ways, in the ancient roads, and have gone into bypaths, not the highway, making their land a horror, a thing to be hissed at for ever. Every one who passes by it is horrified and shakes his head. Give heed to me, O LORD, and hearken to my plea. Therefore deliver up their children to famine; give them over to the power of the sword, let their wives become childless and widowed. May their men meet death by pestilence, their youths be slain by the sword in battle.
Are you serious about this? Look at the "dangerous information" these fools have:

- 20 Ways to Sabotage Your School (http://www.totse.com/en/bad_ideas/irresponsible_activities/nrk54.html)

- Fun At Construction Sites! (http://www.totse.com/en/bad_ideas/irresponsible_activities/162167.html)

- 10 Great High Explosive Mixtures (http://www.totse.com/en/bad_ideas/ka_fucking_boom/10great.html) - Note that here they don't provide any information at all, just "this + that = boom!".

- Dry Ice Bomb (http://www.totse.com/en/bad_ideas/ka_fucking_boom/161646.html) - A very hazardous device, surely it is.

As a pawn of the government, you should be concerned about those who possess true power, not about a babbling totse idiot.

Originally posted by cameroneod
Some of those kids (who would be instantly banned here) take the info they get there very seriously.
Worry not. As bobo said, 99,9% of their members never do anything at all. Even those who take this "information" very seriously are not going to become a real threat against the status quo you care for so much.

[nbk2000]

By "dangerous sites" I'm sure he was referring to it being "dangerous" in the sense of the information being dangerous to anyone trying to follow it ("Hammer your AP detonator into the bomb" ;)), not dangerous to any intended target.

Sarevok, are you a Nazi too? I know there's a lot of nazi's in brazil who fled there after WWII.

[Sarevok]

Originally posted by nbk2000
By "dangerous sites" I'm sure he was referring to it being "dangerous" in the sense of the information being dangerous to anyone trying to follow it ("Hammer your AP detonator into the bomb" ;)), not dangerous to any intended target.
Yes, their misinformation is dangerous, but their information is not.

Originally posted by nbk2000
Sarevok, are you a Nazi too? I know there's a lot of nazi's in brazil who fled there after WWII. Yes. I agree with NSDAP's ideas - the 25 guiding principles and the other points found on the Mein Kampf, which makes me a nazist, but not a neonazist (I integrated a group of the so called neonazists for a while, and, believe me, they are white-skinned niggers - mere vandals without political conscience).

But I would like to see NSDAP's ideas to be applied worldwide, not only applied on a strict location (like Germany). This worldwide application would consist of:

(1) The zionist democracy should be overthrowed.
(2) According to its economic situation, any given State should preserve the racial integrity of its white inhabitants, while eliminating the members of other races:
- (A) First-world countries, like USA: They should avoid their own racial degeneration by enslaving and sterilizing their subhuman population. Thus, the subhumans would disappear as a race, working to death in the process.
- (B) Third-world countries, like Brazil: They should take care of their agonizing white inhabitants, who are trying to study and work while the fucking niggers are corroding the very heart of the society, raping, killing, robbing, and living with the money the political leaders take from the people who work and are taxed to death, while the local authorities don't do a shit about it. The government should stop to give money to illiterate and worthless fools, delinquents, idiots who are unemployed because they don't any educational degree at all, imbeciles who can't live on their own and need drugs to prevent them from pissing on their own pants, and enslave/sterilize them.
(3) Africans, arabs, and other walking shit should have their numbers and life conditions lowered through the sneaky use of poisoned food, and biological/chemical agents. When their numbers become reduced, they should be enslaved/sterilized. Their countries would be colonized by white people, or would be abandoned as barren wastelands.
(4) Asians have potential and they handle this potential with discipline. They are dangerous and should be destroyed as soon as possible.
(5) As an additional protocol, a female would be forced to marry me.
(6) It would be imperative to eliminate anyone who disagrees with any of these procedures.

If you didn't, you should read The Bell Curve Intelligence and Class Structure in American Life (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0684824299/102-1607281-9676930?v=glance). This book's author after doing a shitload of IQ tests, pointed the obvious: the average white man has a higher IQ score than the average nigger. Thus, if the white race disappears through interracial fornication (Know ye not? Fornicators shall not inherit the kingdom of God!:)), the average IQ of the human race would lower. Culture, technology, philosophy, and even civilization itself would crumble. All our efforts would be turned to dust, thanks to our afro-anything friends.

I have to admit it, sometimes I forget all this racial/political babble and I just want to become Satan incarnate, raping 13-17 years old virgins, slicing everyone open, fading beauty, withering trust, destroying love, dissolving hope, crumbling thrones, invoking rains of fire and molten sulfur, earthquakes, pestilence, poverty, chaos, famine, slaughter, and quarrels. The world would become a slaughterhouse where I insanely crush/kill/destroy everything until my very end! DEATH TO ALL THAT LIVES! Ah, fucking shit...

Soundtrack of this post: Liar of Golgotha - The Defloration of Virgin Mary (http://usuarios.lycos.es/tzavoth/bands/liar/dwell.htm).

[nbk2000]

I feel where you're coming from brother. :D

I read in a recent edition of The Economist that brazil has a majority population of negroids, but that the majority of university students are white, so the obvious solution (to the liberal author) is for the government to subsidize the entry of "disadvantaged" negros into colleges that they would otherwise not be admitted into by increasing the taxes on the higher educated whites. :rolleyes:

What has this gotten us in the US? Large numbers of educated negros in prisons and fast food resturants. :p Given the choice between a white man, and a black man, both with the same education, the majority of businesses choose the white man because they know he's more likely to get the job done.

The article also noted how a larger percentage of part-white negroids were in college than full-blooded nigs and concluded that it was because they were able to "pass" as white. Maybe it's because their IQ is higher than the average nig due to the advantage of having some of the inately superior genes of the white race boosting their own brainpower over that of their otherwise inferior natural IQ as full-blooded nigs?

Where I work, out of a dozen employees there's only 1 person there who's not white, and she's asian and on her way out (whether she knows it or not). And our workplace is a very relaxed place to work at (except for the asshole boss) because we don't have to worry about "offending" any sensitive "disadvantaged" types. :p

In my past vocation of convenience store clerk, we had a turnover rate of about 1 person per month...the majority of them being the niggers...because they couldn't hack working, or because they'd be caught stealing. At least fuckin' mexicans can work, something the nigs can't manage, but that's only cause they've got traces of caucasian in them from when the spainards raped the conquered native woman. :)

The only way anything is going to happen to maintain the Aryan race is if we rise up one day, say "Enough is enough!", and let loose hell on earth. Because any such race war is going to be to the extinction of either the Aryan race, or the muds, because there will be no room for surrender for either side once it starts.

I, personally, would be all for establishing a terraforming aryan colony on mars, and leaving the earth to fall back into barbaric chaos at the hands of the muds and their race-traitor cohorts.

Then, after a few centuries, after the earth has falling back into the stone-age at the hands of the dark masses, the far-advanced space-faring Aryans can simply bombard the planet from orbit with asteroids they tow from the asteroid belt near mars, snuff out all complex life from earth by blotting out the sun (like what happened to the dinosaurs) and finish off any survivors with precision orbital bombardment with small impactors launched from the lunar colony they'd establish.

After a few more centuries, to let the dust settle, aryans can recolonize the now habitable earth as a resource planet, have a pristine mars with a breathable atmosphere as a homeland, and begin to expand to the stars, spreading the species of Homo Superious ;) throughout the galaxy, without any dregs to hold us back. :)

All the while worshipping me as the visonary leader who made it all possible, thawing me out from my cryogenic suspension, and ensuring my immortality so that I may guide them to eternal victory over the inevitable unter-alien speciess we'll encounter! :D

I didn't know TOTSE had anything BUT misinformation. I'm sure they stole any real information they may have there from us.

[Sarevok]

Originally posted by nbk2000
I read in a recent edition of The Economist that brazil has a majority population of negroids, but that the majority of university students are white, so the obvious solution (to the liberal author) is for the government to subsidize the entry of "disadvantaged" negros into colleges that they would otherwise not be admitted into by increasing the taxes on the higher educated whites. :rolleyes:
This is already happening in some parts of the country. People think this as being good, because "Brazil exploited our african brothers, so we must compensate this now". How foolish. The only people exploited by Brazil were italian and german workers who came from their countries to work here. They had to work for free for a year just to pay their travel fee. After this, they worked as slaves earning an amount of money lower than the amount spent in the past to sustain a slave. Today the descendants of these italian and german workers sustain this wasteland, while the nigs are being fed thanks to the help they receive from our social-democratic government.

I do believe everyone here is accepting this because, in the recent past, Brazil's white inhabitants started to suffer a profound negronization. TV had only black "culture" to show, female apes became models of beauty while white girls had to go to the beach to burn their skin, because "pale is ugly". If you hear a racist joke here about niggers being dumb, someone can even call the cops, but a very common kind of joke here are the jokes about blondes. Essentially the jokes say blonde females are dumb. Sad enough, everyone finds this funny! :mad: Even the blondes themselves, not only they like these jokes, but they think themselves to be foolish because of their hair color. If a blonde does something wrong, she will say "ah forgive me, you know, I'm a blonde". White middle-class people are starting to wear their hair like Bob Marley, to hear reggae and rap, etc. No matter, Brazil is unimportant, this is just my temporary home. Having the opportunity (if I survive to the growing urban violence spreaded by the niggers in every fucking city here), I will simply go away from this crapland.

Originally posted by nbk2000
The only way anything is going to happen to maintain the Aryan race is if we rise up one day, say "Enough is enough!", and let loose hell on earth. Because any such race war is going to be to the extinction of either the Aryan race, or the muds, because there will be no room for surrender for either side once it starts.
It would be good, but I think this race war is not going to happen. I do believe the white youth will be negronizated worldwide, first culturally, through the zionist-friendly media and then phisically, through nigger male and white-female-who-is-so-hot-she-needs-a-real-man(read nigger) fornication. Its just a matter of time. We're all doomed.

[megalomania]

TOTSE has a most wonderful section on explosives... too bad they STOLE IT ALL FROM ME!

[nbk2000]

I'm afraid TOTSE misread the RTPB "Imitate, then innovate" as "Imitate, then deny". ;)

[Nitroman]

The question is, do the FBI know the difference beetween a TERRORIST and a HOBBYIST?

[Anthony]

I'm guessing that in many cases you end up being whatever they want you to be...

[thoughtaddict]

Let us assume that we are being monitored by the FBI/CIA/whatever government body you wish.
Let us assume that they understand that we have quite a bit of knowledge here about how to make explosive devices.
Also, assume that they understand this is not a terrorist board.
Further, let us assume that there are wackos here.

Now, why in the hell would they want to shut us down? To splinter all of those wackos away from productive, non-violent theoretical discussion while simultaneously pissing them off? It could happen, but it would be a stupid idea. NBK alone would be enough of a threat if pissed... why have a whole board of explosives connosieurs wanting to get revenge?

[vulture]

They're not afraid of shutting us down because we know how to make explosives. :rolleyes:

500kg of RDX aren't going to do shit to rescue you when a SWAT team raids your house in the middle of the night.

They're not shutting us down because they can monitor us. If we were to communicate through underground channels, using encryption and special keywords, they would have a hard time figuring out what we were up to.

BTW, it's "connaisseurs".

[Hang-Man]

NBK alone would be enough of a threat if pissed...
If one of 'us' got arrested, how challenging do you think it would be for the rest of us to get him out? I say we could get in and out of a medium prison without much of a problem. Do you think there is a barrier that any 3 of the mods here could not bypass with little more than a rubber band, a paper clip and a drinking straw?

[wrench352]

super max, terra haute,ind
camp x-ray,guantanamo bay,cuba

kind off topic-I envisioned this as about being investigated and the inherent hazards therein

[grandyOse]

Originally posted by TreverSlyFox

I can't stress this enough, if your questioned by LEOs, SHUT YOUR MOUTH! Say nothing more than your name and "I want a lawyer" PERIOD! .

Sometimes a few choice phrases can help, such as, "You do not have my permission to search my vehicle. You are conducting an illegal search." It worked for me.

[T_Pyro]

One of the elemental rules of surveilance:
If you gain acces to the enemy's mode/medium of communication, you do NOT shut it down, or let them know about it.
If the "authorities" are yet unaware of our presence (which I seriously doubt), well and good. On the other hand, if they do know about the presence of the forum, I really don't think they'd make their presence felt in a hurry.
The forum logs the ip of all members who post on the forum. Is the same done for "outside visitors" too? If so, (and again assuming they haven't spoofed their ip), wouldn't the mods come to know if anyone from the "authorities" come to knock on our door? Are there records of any such visits in the past?

[Flake2m]

This is how I see it;
If you have a group a group of people that are conducting activities which are against the law but not harming people or property you have two choices;
1. shut the group down be any means possible
2. leave them alone in the hope that they'll eventually get bored/over it

Now this forum is a place created to exchange knowledge. It will never condone terrorism even though some of the ideas that come from its members are boarderline disturbing.

So IF I was FBI/police/CIA/ASIO/MI5/whatever I might monitor this forum. However since esentially this forum is promoting knowledge rather then terrorism there would be no need to shut it down.
This board could even become a source of information for idea on possible ways to attack/build/thwart stuff.

This forum is arguably one of the best sources of information on the 'net when it comes to explosives and improvised weapons. So why shut it down when the authorities can use it to help prevent possible acts of terrorism?

[wrench352]

The lycaeum(I think) I believe has a system in place to track suspect gov. computer by address(.mil,.gov,.us,etc) and tracks what they look at.On a side note has any one bought from a bad supplier,reverse sting,etc and has good hind sight.
Im looking at a domestic supplier,that claims to sell to individuals that carries hydrazine,pe,etc.There is one other supplier that makes such claims that is reputed to be a reverse sting.Are things that look too good to be true,not?

Also Mods I thought there was a policy about not overtly revealing sources.I was sorely pissed to see one of my better sources revealed on the board recently.I can only imagine they will be overrun with idiots, kewls &(hopefully not)federal attention.

Please dont feed the kewls
feds either

[tmp]

Megalomania, isn't that the mark of lamer site ? Plagiarize from a good source and
claim it as their own ? Those assholes put just enough REAL information out there to
make their sorry asses look legitimate. Unfortunately, some dumbass kids will more
than likely use some the so-called "easy" methods(read UNSAFE) and end up losing
a limb or their lives. And the rest of us will be blamed -- that I'm sure of !

[Jacks Complete]

It is difficult to say that the feds or whatever would run round stealing our ideas :wink: , or monitoring what we are up to.

I suspect they do tag in every once in a while, and they probably do keep a note of the IP addresses of those visiting. These would be dragged up if, in ten years time, you did anything worse than get a traffic ticket.

In the UK, the nazi statement made above would actually be enough to get the board closed down, the owner into lots of trouble, and nbk2000 and Sarevok arrested and sent to jail. A man who was caught fly posting about blacks being the cause of most of the violence in the Glasgow area was arrested. In court, it was found that the truth had nothing to do with if the statement was racist, so even though it was true, he still went to jail.


Of course, just visiting this site and owning a bit of pipe might get you hauled over the coals in the UK. I have just spent ten minutes searching for the newspaper article mentioned above, using terms like "glasgow racist bnp prosecution truth poster" and not found anything. Of course, I visited lots of racist and anti-racist sites in that time, and the searches, like every other URL, are logged by the ISP, ready for the cops to "request" at any time... (See the "Regulation of Investigatory powers" act, a terrible piece of facist legislation)

Of course, all these draconian laws achieve nothing but an overwhelming defeat of public spirit. A new scheme to have car owners pay £100 to have the car fingerprinted has just been launched near here. Fucking pathetic! People would happily pay £100 if it meant the little shit(s) got sent down for even a week, just to teach them a lesson, but they don't... You can steal a hundred cars and not go to jail, or burgle a hundred homes (at no risk of being beaten or shot, lest you sue the owner!) without fear of more than a few months inside.

When the cops and the courts start campaigns to ban replica guns because kids are robbing people at "gunpoint" I think it is a little too late to just pass another law - after all, armed robbery has been illegal for many years!

However, a simple summons to appear in court to your home, because you obey the law, and can be tracked, is all hundreds of motorists can expect every day.

When the law isn't just, and everyone is a criminal, the cops just go for the easy targets. If the UK cops get the FBI to look at the IPs, and they can get the ISPs to hand over our names and addresses, I suspect that quite a few members will get a letter delivered by hand by PC Plod.

However, until someone spoon-feeds it to the UK cops, they will stick to easier things, like people who have nice middle-class homes with hedges two inches too tall...

Not that I am a cynic at all...

[tmp]

Jack's Complete, I read about Tony Martin who was sent to prison for murder in
the UK for having the audacity to defend his farm from burglars with a shotgun.
I also read that violent crime skyrocketed there since the government banned
handguns. The politically correct have turned justice on its head. Here in America,
the situation isn't that bad - yet. But big city mayors and their corrupt political
machines have tried to sue the gun manufactures for gun crimes even though
the manufactures have no control at that point. Gun control, as strict as it is,
is a colossal failure. The politically correct will not listen however. Their answer
to crime is to pass more laws against the average gun owner and not the pieces
of shit who are causing the problems. I'm sure the members of the FORUM are
viewed as a threat because we think for ourselves and not kiss the asses of the
politicians who want to control our lives. BTW, when the politicians and their trial
lawyer friends sued the tobacco industry, the money the states received and are
receiving was supposed to fund anti-smoking programs and to help pay for the
medical bills of sick smokers. Very little of that money was used for either
purpose. Instead it was spent on more welfare programs to reward the lazy
among us and buy their votes for re-election.

[ossassin]

Gee, this stuff is creepy. For the record, I've never made anything illegal, such as explosives, firearms, supressors, etc., nor do I plan to. I simply like discussing them, because I find them fascinating. I don't want anything like that on my record. I also think that it is good for civilians to know a little about those sorts of things, just in case we should be attacked on US soil. We live in an arrogant country that thinks that nothing can ever happen to us. In the event of a catasrtophe, it might be left to the citizens to defend the country, at least for a while. I actually plan on joiing the military some day. Until then, I'm just doing what I can. :) A little knowledge in the hands of a civilian just might save the country. That belief is what let us win the Revolutionary War.

On a side note, is the American Revolutionary War a touchy subject in an international forum like this? I'm just curious.

[Hang-Man]

A little knowledge in the hands of a civilian just might save the country
A little Experience in the hands of a civilian just might save the country a whole lot faster.

[KAROMESIS]

" It is the right of the people to alter or abolish it"... U.S constitution reffering to the government and it's propensity to overstep it's boundaries. when it gets out of control like it is now . The masses fear the government and that fear rules them with an iron fist..."If it be of choice it is better to be feared rather than loved"..Niccolo Machiavelli. I will attest to having my suspicions about this forum and the feds.and I am certain that there are feds watching. anyway I agree with most others in that TNO always cover your ass ect. what amazes me is that in another thread I read about a fucking moron who hammered an AP det into place and lost two fingers in the process,but he still had the right mind to physically remove his hard drive.

[Flake2m]

Read my current sig and you might realise what this world is becoming.
WA is trying to pass a bill a bill which lets the ACC (anti corruption commision) the most power of any state. The ACC will also have the power to do extraordinary searches on properties without warrants as well and use assumed identies. I thought WA was less facist then the rest of Oz....

[wrench352]

There have been some busts recently in my state,kids making pipe bombs,know how they got caught?Downloading kiddieporn.Just somethin for yall to think about.
On another note,I was reading a cop magazine the otherday.There was an article about a methlab bust,the cops talked about the fingerprints on the labglass sewing up the case.No deniability.So,yet one more reason yall should be wearin your latex for safety.And how bout this, next yard sale you have set out a piece or two of labglass,no pricetag.When someone picks up the piece,tell em the price is 4x whatever you paid for it.Now you have labware with someone elses fingerprints on it.This works good for weapons too.

[Hang-Man]

There are two kinds of freedom- to have all of one means none of the other: Freedom from, and freedom to. You could have a society where everyone is free to do what ever they want but then we would be at risk of being shot and having our shit ruined. Or we could have a society where you have the freedom from fear and hate and violence, but then you would have to be restrained from dong things that infringe on everyone else’s freedoms. Everyone can see where we are headed- a society where we can't do anything because it offends someone. Even now- we can’t celebrate Christmas in school because it would offend non-Christians. There comes a time when you have to kick the government in the nuts and say "you can t please everyone" give us back our guns.

[keith]

Can ACC/FBI see when you DL things on Limewire or Kazaa?

Amen hang_man

[wrench352]

Well if the RIAA can find you,I would assume your local three letter agency could too.In the end its a matter of your ISP giving you up.Run your connection through a proxy server if you gonna download something suspicious.Those files are never labeled right you know.Sick fucker

[keith]

We have nothing to worry about. I mean no one here has ever made anything illegal right?
A way to tell those who are FBI...Megalomania you should look at the accounts that actively browse the forum more than 3 hours a day but never post. People who browse more than about 2 hours a day are damn sure going to post frequently. If not, then they know nothing and are not benefiting the forum at all.

[wrench352]

Keith,I think I'm actually dumber for having read that.A far smarter way to sort things out is this:
FedWatch (http://fedwatch.lycaeum.org/?do=faq)
and this:(sorry,Im tired)
http://fedwatch.lycaeum.org/
I always wanted to ask NBK about the .gov and .mil hits here.Keith plenty of people come here,want their anonanimity,and loiter.I used to.Besides you should only be posting if you can contribute(I dont mean you),like this post.Not posting because your lonely,helpless or want to see what cool name the board is going to give you next.

[tmp]

I'm more paranoid than ever about our federal(US) government after reading this
today. With all of the problems the federal courts are supposed to deal with this
blew my mind:

Jailing the Innocent by Paul Craig Roberts


Jailing the Innocent
by Paul Craig Roberts
by Paul Craig Roberts

Every day many Americans commit crimes of which they are unaware.
Many of the crimes with which Americans are charged are absurd.
One recent case brought to light by Ellen Podgor and Paul Rosenzweig
is that of three Americans sentenced in federal court to eight years
in prison for importing lobster tails from Honduras in plastic bags
instead of cardboard boxes. Why this matters, no one knows. Moreover
the importers of the lobster tails have no responsibility for how
the seafood was packed in Honduras.
Federal prosecutors decided that Honduran law was violated by the
shipment because a few tails (3% of the shipment) were less than 5.5
inches in length.
The Honduran government objects to this interpretation of its law
and filed a brief in behalf of the defendants, but federal judges
nevertheless convicted their fellow citizens for violating the Lacey
Act by importing "fish or wildlife taken, possessed, transported, or
sold in violation of any foreign law."
To insure a harsh sentence the prosecutors loaded up charges against
the defendants by bringing indictments for smuggling, money
laundering and conspiracy. Smuggling is inferred from a few of the
tails allegedly being undersized and illegal. Money laundering is
charged because the lobster purchase and sale required money to be
deposited in a bank. Conspiracy is charged on the basis that more
than one person was involved.
In other words, these are totally trumped-up crimes.
The upshot is that three Americans have had their lives ruined by
federal prosecutors and judges for violating a Honduran law that the
Honduran president, attorney general and embassy say is not on their
country’s statute books.
For reasons no one knows, federal prosecutors spent six months
trying to find reasons in Honduran law to indict the American
importers of the lobster tails. If it took federal prosecutors six
months to find something in foreign law that they could allege the
importers to have violated, how could the importers possibly have
known that they could be imprisoned for the ordinary everyday
business of importing lobster tails for restaurants?
Legal scholars such as Mr. Rosenzweig at the Heritage Foundation and
Erik Luna at the University of Utah Law School are calling attention
to the overcriminalization that has made it impossible in America to
conduct ordinary business activities without risk of indictment. It
is tyrannical to burden Americans with the substantive obligation of
knowing how federal prosecutors might interpret every foreign law.
No sane person could regard the lobster importers’ conduct as
criminal. Liberty is extinguished where law is so broad and vague as
to entrap even the most honest citizen.
Naïve Americans tend to regard miscarriages of justice, such as the
lobster import case, as rare examples of legal idiocy that somehow
will be corrected by the legal system. However, such cases are
routine and are seldom if ever corrected. In America today law
enforcement boils down to the exercise of power by unaccountable
prosecutors. Justice is not served by ensnaring the innocent.
Married men who happen to own guns are being turned into felons by
wives who ask for restraining orders when they file for divorce.
Prosecutors interpret restraining orders as criminalizing prior gun
ownership. A restraining order turns a law-abiding gun owner into a
criminal. It is an example of unconstitutional ex post facto law at
its worst.
Americans are uninformed about the tyrannical nature of their
criminal justice system. Until they become personally ensnared in
the system, Americans believe that police and prosecutors would
never convict an innocent person. Once they experience the system,
Americans are terrified by the system’s indifference to whether a
defendant has committed a crime.
Mary Sue Terry, former attorney general of the Commonwealth of
Virginia, says the concern of the justice system "has turned from
seeking truth to seeking convictions, and our post-conviction
efforts are focused on denying any further review."
Ever widening arrest powers are bringing a reality check to more and
more Americans. Just before Christmas the US Supreme Court ruled
that a police officer who discovers contraband in a car can arrest
every occupant if no one admits to ownership of the illicit item.
Warn your teenagers never to get into a car with acquaintances who
might have alcohol, drugs, or weapons. And be careful whose car you
get into yourself.
In a recent Cato Policy Report, Erik Luna says that "the sheer
number of idiosyncratic laws and the scope of discretionary
enforcement" are making criminals out of many Americans who had no
intent to break a law or any knowledge that they had.
A country that goes out of its way to imprison the innocent has no
business preaching democracy to the world.
January 7, 2004
Dr. Roberts [send him mail] is John M. Olin Fellow at the Institute
for Political Economy, Senior Research Fellow at the Hoover
Institution, Stanford University, and Research Fellow at the
Independent Institute. He is a former associate editor of the Wall
Street Journal and a former assistant secretary of the U.S.
Treasury. He is the co-author of The Tyranny of Good Intentions.
Copyright © 2004 Creators Syndicate
Paul Craig Roberts Archives



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It's been said that more federal judges need to be appointed to the bench to
handle the backlog of pending cases. When the federal persecutors waste time
and OUR money for bullshit like this it's no fucking wonder why they have a
backlog. BTW, the Lacey Act sounds like a law made by environmentalist whackos !
Smuggling, money laundering, and conspiracy are charges I would expect to be
brought against drug dealers - not lobster importers ! Apparently, the feds have nothing better to do !

[Flake2m]

Maybe if American law stopped this bullshit then maybe they would be actually able to catch some real crooks. Sure theres your average PETTY crimminal but then there are the real players, the ones that rip off thousands of people each day and the companies that earn millions or billions of dollars in profit every year by selling cheap shithouse gear or by poison the people and environment.

[Aryan_Nations]

As my profile states im a newbie. But I find it amazing how much I have in common with most on here. I have been in the feds eyes a few times in my past. 1 time very recent in AZ. I would like to first state that the moderators and the webmaster have done an excellent job with this site. After spending a few hours reading and looking over old posts you can find about anything and everything one would need to know and learn whos just getting into the hobby as myself. This forum has been my primary resource and am greatful for it. Second as to the feds. These guys are nasty. They will do the utmost to take you down. And when these boys take you down they hit you hard. I.E. I have a buddy whos facing 120yrs in PA over a fed and a BEST FRIEND who turned informant. So my advice trust no one as stated before. Not even your best friend, family members etc. I keep my mouth shut and eyes and ears open constantly. Camera's, No trespassing signs, guns and a fence possibly upgraded ;) is the way to go for security. also use a security system within the inside of the house as well as a couple cameras as well. You can never be to safe or really to paranoid in my eyes. Just when you let your guard down they got ya.

Stay Safe and remember Big Brother is always near

Jeremy

[Jacks Complete]

Aryan_Nations,

might I suggest that from that post alone, I can infer that I could find you on the Federal security computers in moments.

You just let down your guard!

You signed with your first name, you have just admitted to having some form of association with a federal criminal, your state, that you have form in Arizona, and you allude to some form of electric or otherwise altered fence, which is probably a crime or misdermeanor not to have clearly signed.

If Big Bubba wants you now, they can have you...

[Aryan_Nations]

Brother you do a search with my name and Aryan Nations together on any search engine and you will see my status. I know they watch me and I never admited to having an altered fence. I didnt reveil anything that isnt already plastered on the net by these Feds about myself. I have been dealing with these "clears throat" for sometime now. I know the games they play and how they have screwed with me. All I was simply trying to accomplish was educate others that arent in the public eye of what to beware of.

[zyk43]

I notice you were mentioning PC privacy...

Check out a program called BC Wipe, its government certified for permanent data erasure from hard drives, its a free trial download and a minimal license fee once the 30 days are up

p.s. sorry if this has already been mentioned

[wrench352]

Zyke43, thanks for your input,there is a thread on this already. Since you bring it up two very good multiuse products that I recommend(if that means anything) are Cyberscrub and Steganos Security Suite. If one was to search hard enough both products could be had for free. Cyberscrub has a trial version available.Cybercrub has 11 wipe options including DoD(7 passes),my favorite "Beyond DoD" (3+7+3 passes), Gutmann methods(35 passes) and for you incurable paranoids, is fully customizable.Steganos Security Suite has all your pc security needs in one basket. I like the hidden encrypted drives and the steganographic encryption. Yes I know,neither of these are perfect, but they make for a good first line of defense in easy to use packages.
Aryan_nations, Welcome aboard.

[wrench352]

Mods,please delete if this is inappropriate.
Good Mornin y'all. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but. In another thread I gave a link to an article that in turn gave links to two businesses that would sell to individuals. IMHO,this is how y'all should,if possible, give supplier info as it keeps k3wlz from fuckin up your connections.

Anyway,while doing research it has come to my attention that one of the suppliers might be in the pocket of a three letter agency. Use extreme prejudice when ordering through these guys.

For what its worth here is the direct link:
http://www.kyantec.com/


And here is the warning I found:
WARNING (http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=f5438d7b.0209171559.607c9570%40posting.goo gle.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dantec,fbi%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUT F-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26selm%3Df5438d7b.0209171559.607c9570%2540postin g.google.com%26rnum%3D1)


That warning was two years old,and it still seems to bee a honeypot. Has anyone had recent dealings with these people?

[redbull]

That site is dedicated to selling chemicals to make methamphetamine
and similar drugs. They "specialize in lithium compounds" "we sell any quantity
from a gram to a barge load" and the quanta pack option will pre weigh and
pre package chemicals for you. It was SO obvious I would like to slap
anyone stupid enough to order from them. :mad:

[Bugger]

In other words, the company was a FBI or DEA front for a "sting" operation. But, what about people wanting to buy chemicals from them for entirely innocent purposes? And what if one expresses a "general" interest in buying unspecified chemicals from them, and asks for a catalog, but as the result one is deluged with advertizing and solicitations to buy specific chemicals that could be used in drug-making? If one gave in to such "badgering" to buy, and bought chemicals which could be used for drug-making as well as having innocent uses (for which they were intended), and were "busted" by the pigs for possessing drug precursors as the result, in such a case the indictment would be thrown out of court on account of entrapment.

Bugger.

[Bugger]

WA is trying to pass a bill a bill which lets the ACC (anti corruption commision) the most power of any state. The ACC will also have the power to do extraordinary searches on properties without warrants as well and use assumed identies. I thought WA was less fascist then the rest of Oz....
Does Australia have, in its Constitution, an annexe which sets out civil rights, like the first 10 Amendments (Bill of Rights) of the U.S. Constitution; or alternatively a separate Bill of Rights Act having the same function? (In New Zealand, we have the N.Z. Bill Of Rights Act 1990, which is even more comprehensive than the U.S. Bill of Rights.) If so, such a law would fail with the first case brought under it. In the U.S.A., such a proposed law, which I understand in West Australia will also allow arbitrary confiscation of property, would be contrary to the 4th and 5th Amendments, and "struck down" in its first test. (And the same would happen in New Zealand).

And why does Australia, or at least West Australia, need a special Anti-Corruption Commission? Are things in government that rotten there? Here, the New Zealand Pigs are bad enough.

Bugger.

[Hobbit Porn]

I don't think the Australian constitution has anything like the Bill of rights anything else included in it.... apparently (as I've never bothered to read it) it is writtern more like a trade agreement more then anything else.

I doubt that the supplier mentioned is a 'front' for the FBI, in the warning it said he is being investigated by the FIB.. investigation doesn't mean he is in cahoots.. to me it implies the opposite (they are trying to put him in jail).

Its kinda hard to believe that it would be a 'sting' operation, because it basically is entrapment.

However, I thought that chemical suppliers (at least in Australia) had to monitor the amounts of certain chemicals that are being bought by an individual (even have background checks and have the customer sign something about its intended purspose), and if an individual is buying suspect amounts or in suspect combinations, they are required to alert authorities, who then decide whether or not to investigate.

H.Porn

[redbull]

How about importing "bad" chemicals? Since customs dosent have the capability to
go through everything coming into the country, can you buy them from abroad?
Is there a country that dosen't care about suspicious chemical purchaces? I hear that
the eastern european companies (former USSR) don't care in general and just want
your money. (I would suppose if it's not useful in chemical weapons they wont get
into trouble...)

I'm pretty sure in the US unliscenced posession of Red Phosphorus is an instant felony.
Now, short of purchacing automatically illegial chemicals, would you be ok even if they
were list I or II? (Under threshold quantities per shippment of course ;) )

[nbk2000]

RP by itself wouldn't be a crime.

BUT...if you had a package of cold pills in your house (even 1 tablet), than that'd be "possession of precursors with intent to manufacture methamphetamine". :p

[Mr. Pseudo]

osassin, nothing is a 'touchy' subject on this forum. 'touchy' by definition, would mean that you're trying to be PC, so as not to hurt anyones widdle feewings.

I was just thinking...I wonder if it's possible that a frequent poster, or even a trusted member of the Roguesci community, could be "Hot Bacon". The info they could glean in such a position would be incredibly more valuable than what they could get from lurking in the shaows. Imagine holding a personal conversation with your mark, without his knowledge. It would be perfectly legal, and nobody would even IMAGINE tht they could be in the crosshairs, with the person they're talking to building a case against him!

Just some food for thought.

On another note, a powerful magnet, placed on the HD should scramble the data beyond all recognition. In any laptop, the HD is easily and quickly removable. A quick smash on the ground to bust it open, followed by a few swipes with the mag should make any hex-decrypting useless.
In most tower computers, there are several slots for drives to be swapped. The top slot could be rigged with an electric fuze igniting a small quantity of magnesim powder, which would ignite a block of thermite. The thermite would burn straight through the entire tower, obliterating the HD, MoBo, and RAM. The 'rigged slot' would not even be noticeable unless the comp was opened up, as the drives all come with covers.

The drive could be entirely self-enclosed, and be removable incase you ever wanted to sell the comp.

Hmm...probably the wrong place for that post.