Mercury fulminate question

[Tony Montana]

When making mercury fulminate, one pours HNO3 into a beaker, then Hg and then you have to pour ethanol into solution to start reaction( I have obviously simpliyfied the procedure somewhat). My question before I waste Hg and HNO3 is, can I use methylated spirits instead of ethanol???????
Planning on doing it anyway soon, so any replies more than welcome!

[This message has been edited by Tony Montana (edited August 13, 2001).]

[mark]

Shouldnt this be in High Explosives?

[shooter3]

Tony I tried that a long time ago. After quite a few tries I desided it didn't work. Icould have been doing something wrong, but I don't think so. With one or two exceptions the ethanol always worked. Mark this is in the right place. For some strange reason primaries are supposed to be here.

[This message has been edited by shooter3 (edited August 13, 2001).]

[Hex]

On the face of it, I can't see why it shouldn't work. None of the reaction scheme in Urbanski appears likely to be affected by any of the common adulterants in meths. It might be worth ordering some 95% ethanol which is denatured with ether only - it's unrestricted (in the UK, anyway) and not too expensive.

[Mr Cool]

Hex, are you a Brit?
Methylated spirits is commonly 90% EtOH, 5% MeOH and 5% water. I can't see why this wouldn't work.
You are aware that you let the mercury dissolve totally BEFORE adding the alcohol, aren't you? It wasn't clear from your post.

I have to get myself the Urbanski books!

[deezs]

I made some mercury fulminate yesterday. Here's the story:
I dissolved about 6 g HgO in 40 ml 65% HNO3. It dissolved fast, but it wasn't so hot. (I have hom Hg metal, but using HgO instead of it, you can avoid NOx fumes.) Added 50 ml denaturated alcohol (ethanol with piridin). There was no reaction. Nothing, till I heated it on a hotplate. Then it bubbled somewhat, but the vigrous reaction started just after a few minutes. It was like a smoke bomb! (use pure ethanol, if you have, denaturated alcohol has a bad small) My bakers were full up with other stuff, so I used a 250 ml erlenmeyer flask. I shouldn't have. The liquid foamed so badly, that it came out from the flask, and dried on the wall of the flask. Nice yellow crystals, but I couldn't remember the temp. of decomposition of Hg-fulminate, so I wiped the flask with a wet cloth. After it cooled down, I added water, and washed it 5 times, till neutral. It became grey slowly. Than my family arrived, so I had to dig the stuff in the garden. I'm just waiting to use it. Perhaps I will set off some picric acid with it.

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"Don't belive anything, just because there is a good proverb for it."

"To avoid injury in a battle, watch them from the nearer hill."

[PHILOU Zrealone]

Doesn't it occure to you that maybe the metalic Hg was needed/as the NOx fumes to start the reaction?
Also the presence of CH3-OH has to be avoided as much as possible!
I once did the MF with succes using pharmacy ethanol I did 10g and the beaker was really hot and fuming white smokes everywhere...The reaction did start imediatelly but once started for sure go out with this otherwise you will have strong acrid smell of acetaldehyde, formaldehyde, ethanol. The use of medium concentration HNO3 and excess alcool is advised to lower the reaction temp (water evaporation takes the heat so does ethanol...thus keeping the temp lower than the decomposition temp of MF).
I used also once self distillated alcool from fruitjuice fermentation with yeast and it succeded too.
But once I used the commercial blue ethanol (denaturated) and the reaction started normally but I ended with a yellow precipitate not explosive at all!

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"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"

[tvs17]

Should an solution of Hg(NO3)2 in 70% HNO3 also work? Since I have no mercury but do have 250 g of Hg(NO3)2.

I tried this by adding a stochiochemical amount of Hg(NO3)2 in HNO3. Then slowly adding the 96% EtOH to the solution. It didn't warm up really or any other things.

After reading this thread I will try to slowly heat up a small amount of the solution I made and see what happens!

[tvs17]

After standing a few days there is a small layer of colorless crytals formed on the bottom. Some is really crystal but some looks like the thin layer you also get when you cool down heated milk(don't know how you call that).
When holding some crystals with a match they defraglate. When put in several layers of Al-foil if pufs, but not detonates. It does generate quite a lot smoke when puffing. Not very healthy to inhale I guess.
Should this be the fulminate? I will try some more blasting tests later.

[EventHorizon]

The et-OH should be warmed before adding to the Hg/HNO3 solution and added all at once. Its seems to need a minor amount of heat to kick off the reaction. Putting the et-OH in the microwave for 7s prior to addition has always worked for 'a friend', but you don't want to heat up the alcohol so its hot. Do it in a 1L+ beaker for 5-6g's of Hg. If you can get grain alcohol, thats better, 190 proof should work wonderfully, http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/wink.gif.

Also, those who have access to methylated spirits. I was goofing one day with my vacuum dessicator and noticed something. When placing a jar of denatured alcohol, ~100ml, in the dessicator and pulling a 28" vacuum (IIRC ~50torr) it would boil for a few minutes then cease, I surmised that it was boiling off the methylnol and leaving the ethanol and water. Might be worth a try.

[This message has been edited by EventHorizon (edited September 11, 2001).]

[tvs17]

Well, in principle the Hg/HNO3 solution everyone uses is the same as an (acidic) Hg(NO3)2 solution, right? So why it doesn't work with me? I tried what you said, also to heat the whole reaction mixture a little to get over that possible activation energy.
But maybe I have to try it another time, because when throwing mercury in the HNO3 you will also get a lot of heat that just maybe enough to start the reaction?
But--we'll try it another time anyway.

[tvs17]

Yes!! It worked! I heated it a bit more strongly on a bunzenburner and the reaction started after about 15 seconds!
Well, good that this also has been cleared up again!