Giant fountain

[green beret]

Well, I have been reading Dan Williams Pyro site and I want to make one of the "Giant Fountain" devices. I have a couple of questions, firstly, he says he uses "Bentonite Clay", the clay I have is cat litter granules powdered very fine and then wetted with water to the desired consistency. Will my clay work? Also, he dosent say anything about plugging the opposite end to the nozzle (unless I'm just really tired) should it be plugged? Anyhow, thats all, thanks.

[irish]

A lot (but not all) clay cat litters are Bentonite anyway, if it's not it should work all the same.
As for the end/bottom plug I think you will have to use one, I've never seen a Fountain of any size without one.

Do you live near a deposit of good clay ? it may be worth finding out.
Most places in Australia have at least a few knowen deposits.
I have always used "wild" clay from off our land, dried and powdered then rammed in as end plugs.

[green beret]

Thanks Irish. When you ram your clay for plugs, do you wet it then press it in and let it dry? Its just that with this fountain, you have to drill out the core so pressed dry clay would just crumble and not retain its form. When I make giant AP crackers I wet it and then press it so it dries rock solid.

I have the iron filings for the fountain, I dont know what mesh they are, but as long as they're not too big, I dont think it really matters too much. Once again, thanks.

[Crazy Swede]

The normal procedure with clay powders is to moisten it a little, only a few percent by weight, granulate, let dry and finally press, or ram, with heavy pressure/strong blows. A good quality clay will compact easily, even when using dry granules!

The Chinese have developed a technique where they moisten their clay, ever so slightly, with diesel or kerosene just before pressing or ramming. By doing this, the work doesn't raise as much dust but most important, the clay doesn't swell and therefore woun't crack during drying! Shrinkage or development of cracks are common problems when clay moistened with water is used for end plugs or nozzles!

[blindreeper]

I use the Action Supermarket brand kitty litter (http://www.geocities.com/blindreeper_chemistry/clay.JPG). Green beret you should also know of this supermarket, it's good someone in Australia knows what I am on about. The clay is a grey colour and needs to be crushed up cause it's ion little pellets. It works awsome for all my applications of plugs and nozzles. I don't moisten it at all because that causes shrinkage and that makes the plug/nozzle loose. The great thing is that it's no very 'light' as in it wont float int he air which makes it good when ramming nozzles/plugs.
Hope this helps!

Copy and paste link

[Anthony]

I've always used cat litter stright out of the bag, it's granulated and crushes easily into a dense plug.

[green beret]

Thanks everyone, yeah I know Action Blindreeper, they have cheap steak.;)

The brand of cat litter I have is "Chandler" quite cheap, about $2 AU for 5kilos I think. Just one more thing, when you guys use they clay to make rocket nozzles, without wetting the clay, does it crumble when you drill the nozzle out? Thats what Dan Williams does with the fountain, rams the clay then drills it, so, obvioulsy it dosent. Anyhow, thanks, when I finally make this, around new years it should be done, I'll let you all know how it went.

PS Blindreeper, If you want to discuss Oz suppliers or anything pyro related just give me an email.

Cheers.

[blindreeper]

Well I don't drill my nozzles...I have a custom made (by me on a metal lathe) aluminium spindle complete with rammers :D But yes I did notice a bit when I used to drill out my nozzles that the clay crumpled at the start but once it got going it was good - but that was using clay from the earth.
I recomend make a spindle to anyone. Even a crappy wooden (http://www.geocities.com/blindreeper_chemistry/CIABPRockets.html) one such as my old one. Yes it does break easily but they are cheap. They make rockets so much more consistent and you can predict them more. I made that one with some 12.5mm dowel in a drill that was clamped in a vice and I used a file to shape it. Kind of like a improvised wood lathe :p

[Guerilla]

Just one more thing, when you guys use they clay to make rocket nozzles, without wetting the clay, does it crumble when you drill the nozzle out?
Dry rammed bentonite clay does crumble a little bit when drilled if it isnt rammed properly or if your drilling it with free-hand. Its good to support the other side with a wooden dowel or similar. I dont think small rifts will affect all that much in some fountains though...

[fire vs. water]

i have also read that page...
red gum is a problem for me...
i can't get it it such big amounts...
can i switch the red gum with anything else??
generally...:
i don't really know what's the difference of pottasium nitrate burning with sugar, or burning with red gum.

here we have a sort of choclate powder (used for making hot choclate...)...
i mixed it with KNO3, and mixed some KNO3 with powdered sugar.
i compared them:
first, good to mention it was the same amount of both.
the mixture with the sugar burned up in about 1.5 sec, and the mixture with the choclate powder burned up in about 4 seconds, and produced at least twice the amount of smoke.

would this be useable instead of red gum?

[blindreeper]

I have heard shellac is a good substitute for red gum bit I have never tried this...

[fire vs. water]

shit...none of that either...
can charoal be used???
or powdered sugar?
or does the red gum have special properties other than being a fuel??
i know its a binder...
maybe I can use charcoal and dextrin as fuel????
any suggestions?

[blindreeper]

Why don't you try constructing a proper sentance before trying to amke a fountain?
Or you could try it yourself!

[fire vs. water]

you really think I would post anything without trying it first?
I wouldn't ask a question if I could find an answer myself, all I asked for is your opinion.
I don't want to start a fight, if you think my question is stupid or you don't like people who don't write proper full sentences, simply ignore it. Personnally I don't think it's such an important factor, you understand me...

now...
I made a really nice fountain... It didn't exactly work as I expected... but I was satisfied, because this is the first time i made a successful fountain. I used this compostion:

100 grams of iron fillings coated with parrafin
20 grams of dexterin
30 grams charcoal (large flakes)
80 grams of finely powdered sugar
550 grams pottasium nitrate

i wet them lightly with a 30% water\70% alcohol mix...

Pictures will be up as soon as I develop them.
edit: spelling mistakes and more information

[Arkangel]

Personnally I don't think it's such an important factor, you understand me Then watch your step here fire vs water, as writing like an idiot is a good way to end up banned.

Clearly you can write reasonably well, but your first post in this thread was unclear and confusing, and a waste of space to everyone but yourself. We don't know anything about you other than what you post here, so make it look presentable and people won't instantly dislike you.

[metal dragon]

green beret
In this formula shall you be using red gum or another type of binder? If another binder is used the temperature would have to be quite high in order to heat the iron fillings. So this is a one aspect that must have to be considered when choosing a suitable binder. Any Australian pyros know what can be used instead?
thanks

[flashpoint]

green beret: were you able to purchase the tubes via dawntreader or did you roll your own? That's my biggest problem in the project I do believe...

[xyz]

If you are looking for suitable tubes then go to a place where they sell carpets, th rolls of carpet are on massive cardboard tubes that are quite strong as well. Just ask them for the tube from a used roll of carpet.

[Bert]

fire vs. water-
if you think my question is stupid or you don't like people who don't write proper full sentences, simply ignore it. Personnally I don't think it's such an important factor, you understand me... That's not how things work around here- If people think that about your posts, you will be ridiculed and most likely kicked. See your attempt to re-state your question in the water cooler for more ridicule. Someone else will have to kick you, unfortunately.

[hpy2bhre]

I have been using a fountain mix of 50% pechlorate and 45 % granulated sugar and 5%smokless powder with 30% more ( all by volume measurment ) of a metal powder in a toilet paper tube with no nozzlefor my fountains. Its cheap and produces a bright very sparkly display. The flame plume will throw sparks about 2 ft into the air and its a very large diameter plume. If it burns too fast add more sugar a little at a time untill its just right. I did a bunch of these at new years and the crowd loved them! The ingredients are cheap and can be varied with the materials ( metals ) you have on hand. I use iron and titanium drill shavings I get from a local machine shop.

[dr_n_tesla]

I've used 100% ground up gold sparklers. I used acetone as the binding agent and pressed it into a tall berocca can (15 tablets). While still wet I used a rod (8-10mm diameter) to make a core 3/4 the depth of the can to increase the buring area.
You can use your traditional clay mixes for the plug, as long as it is secure.
Since I didn't have access to priming chemicals or a fuse, I used a sparkler as the fuse in the centre of the core to ignite it from the middle.
I placed it in a 1/4 inch thick cardboard tube of the same length as the metal berocca can would melt.

It was able to throw 5m sparks into the air as a fountain. It roared for over 30 sec before burning out. Unfortunately, my plug was still wet when I used it (last minute NYE construction) and it blew it off after 5 sec. But it was still able to produce a 3-4m fountain without the plug (about 25mm diameter opening).

The only downside at the end are the red hot glowing bits of sparkler residue inside the tube that make up about 1/3 the volume of the sparklers. Water fixes that up nicely.