alternatives to chloroform

[seth]

hi all,
i spent a couple of hours browsing through various forums now, searching for info on sleeping gasses, and all i came up with was clorophorm related stuff.
now when i was taking chemistry lessons i can remember i digged it up, and what i came up with was that it must be administerd in extremley controlled amounts to avoid death, and also it takes at least a minute to be effective, plus having an extremley detectable smell.
So i was wondeing if there is a more stealthy alternative, witch also acts faster.
I am not asking for ways of producing the alternative chemical, just names and opinions about it.
greets
Seth

[grendel23]

Anything that is fast is also frequently fatal, read about the Russian's attempt to use a soporific gas last year, 129 dead.

[Chade]

My god, there's a fetish for everything. I searched Chloroform on the net, and came back with porn sites of women getting chloroformed. Anyway, it does work, but isn't instant. It's very handy as it's so easy to make. Even if you don't plan to use that, there's little reason no to have a go at making it anyway, just to give you an idea of working with a soporific substance like that.
True, if you fall unconcious in a room with the gas, then carry on breathing it in, you'll die, but a napkin full of it over the mouth and nose for about a minute will put someone out, according to descriptions on this forum. The film Suicide Kings has a classic scence where they attempt to chloroform someone in a car, in a fairly realistic scenario. The guy shakes free, grabs the wheel, and the jolt makes the guy drop the bottle of chloroform in the car. Not the easiest thing to use, but the easiest thing to make.
Look here: http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloroform
and then decide for sure that you really want to try making something else. After all, it was used as an anesthetic for years.

I notice you got the wrong spelling, which may be why your searching of the forum (which I'm sure you did) didn't get any hits. Not that I'm criticising, I always want to spell it cloroform for some odd reason. Anyway, this'll give you 54 threads, and info on other sleep agents. I'll be amazed if there's not loads on how to use them as well.

I always think the idea of chloroform in a bottle is a little clunky. Try to use it in a fight, and you look like Kryten from red dwarf. 'I'm coming round behind you to take you by suprise now sir. You may experience a slight smell of chloroform.'

[edit: rather than type a new post]

Hell, I'm in no position to complain. I make five good mistakes before breakfast. Yes I get what you mean there. I found the thread I was thinking of
http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1540&highlight=chloroform

I've not been able to find any threads discussing different types of knockout gases, or their effectiveness, besides that one, which pointed out that holding someones face to a napkin of Chloroform is a world apart from throwing a gas canister into a room they can run out of. Exposure times need to be VASTLY increased, and by difficult to predict amounts. So likely, that would increase the difference required in lethal dose and effective dose to be much higher.

http://www.osha.gov/dts/osta/anestheticgases/anesthetic_gases.html
This page lists the medical anesthetics over the years, and looking for the effective doses and the lethal and toxic doses should give a kicking off point. The synthesis of these is gonna be harder, and if there was a really effective knockout gas, I think it'd be used more often.

[seth]

hey ched, was a typo. i was just eating breakfast while writing, so forgive me :)
anyhow, i do remember the russian issue, and my rough guess is that they so totally got the wrong dose... but that of course is just my opinion.
anyhow.. ok that whatever is breathed for longer time is lethal, but considering a relativley spacy environment, witch is potentially ventilated, this risk should not be existing. Or?
well coming back to the main issue, the point is that i need something effective in less than 30 seconds, and with chlorophorm.. wel.. that just is not realisic.
Consider that maximum exposure time will be approx. 1 minute after dozing off, and that oxygen may also be supplied to victims immediatly in a 2 minute time range.
do you get what i mean?

[zeocrash]

i believe the problem with the russian situation arrised from the fact that they were using a medical anesthetic to gas a building. and medical anesthetics are usually used with strict control on the supply, depending on the state of the patient, rather than just turning the gas up to full and hoping for the best. i'm curious to know where they got such a large supply of medical anesthetic at such short notice, but i guess they're the government, they can do anything.
i heard that a blast of ether in the face will knockyou out, or at least pacify you. but i dont know much about it

[Anthony]

As grendel pointed out, things that drop people very quickly also tends to kill them. There isn't really an effective, non-dangerous "knock out" gas like you see in films.

What are you trying to do anyway?

[Chade]

Also, ether is still used as a recreational drug by certain people. (common term refers to diethyl ether) Try to knock out a druggy, and there's always a chance he'll just start laughing in your face. There's been at least one case of someone who's drunk a full pint of ether daily. If you're trrying to incapacitate a drug user (not that unlikely a scenario) You'll haveto account for their increased tolerances to certain substances.
By way of analogy, imagine trying to put a drug in a pot of food to intoxicate (but not kill) a dinner party. You don't know the toleranes of anyone there, how much they'll eat, or if they'll have an adverse reaction. Just 'cause you're putting the drug in the air, doesn't make dosege any simpler (in some ways it's more complicated.)
Remember, even in hospitals, sometimes people just die going into surgery, before the doctor even lifts a scalpel, as they have a bad reaction to the anesthetic. Not too common, but not that rare either. And that's with them varying the doses according to age, desired effect, weight, and other narcotics the person has taken. You'd have to go around the room doing a survey to find out this stuff about your target group, and god forbid there be a baby or a child in there.
I've heard the Russian theatre attack used Fentanyl, a medical anesthetic, but obviously the government won't admit or deny this. They got the dose wrong, but my question would be, is it actually possible to get the dose right? I'd imagine even an anesthetist trying to knock out twenty people at once would have a hell of a job on.
The russian siege had a fatality rate of over a huindred out of over 700 people. that's a 1 in 7 fatality rate. Maybe you could get a better figure than that with more controlled circumstances, but you're still talking about losing a few people.
Do you actually need to knock them out? Perhaps some drug that has them rolling around on the floor, or just very stoned and giggly would work?

[seth]

wel.
thaks for the massive interest :)
well the idea is to take out a party of no more than 3, no children, and possibly drug use in the targets.
For anyone wondering what i wanted to do.... its very simple: my softair team is bored of using flashbangs to temporarley (how do you spell that) take out enemies, and we wanted to take a different approach to stelthy penetration of the objective structures.
Also, its not an absolute requirement that the targets lie in a comatose state on the ground, its just necessary that they are unable to react (that can involve lying on the ground rolling for laugh gas or something that heavily stones them).
I hope you understand why i want to avoid anything fatal... such as overdose...
well...
what could an effective solution be?

[Anthony]

You want to risk peoples' lives for the sake of a airsoft game?!

When we're talking about "knock-out" anything, we're imagining scenarios such as kidnappings, where death is a major concern despite the fact that a serious prison stretch for kidnapping is already a cert if caught.

General anesthetics (particularly powerful ones like you're requesting) are not trivial toys, you will be putting the lives of others at risk and you're own personal freedom, for the sake of something so stupid.

As has been said, even professional anesthetists sometimes stuff up, and for that reason general anesthetic is avoided unless necessary. These people know what they are doing and have experience and they won't do it uncessarily, so why do you think it's safe for you to do it for shits and giggles?

Seriously, your attitude towards this serious subject matter puts your maturity and trustworthyness with potentially lethal materials into serious question.

[Hang-Man]

my softair team is bored of using flashbangs
on that topic- your using flashbangs in airsoft games? you must be damn good at making them if you feel you can thow them into a room of people and not find them with blood running out their ears when you come in.

[seth]

erm...
ok..
just to clear things up..
1) flashbangs == magnesium powder fired up by the explosion of a small firecracker. pretty harmless, if not used in a too stupid way.

2) real scenario is of course not wargaming, but my teammates were interested in this idea, so if something useful comes out of it, it'll be used if possible.

[Chade]

I've never used drugs myself, but how about a handful of shredded marajuana leaves on a flashbang? There's something with no recorded fatalities that could, to some degree, sedate them, but it might not make them all that inclined to get out of their bunker. I leave it to someone who has more dope experience than me to comment.

It'd certainly make the games more fun though...

[edit: Oh well, nice try. Thanks ALENGOSVIG1.]

[ALENGOSVIG1]

Haha theres no way thats going to work. First of all, you don't even smoke the leaves, but rather the flowers or buds of the plant.

All it's going to do is spread particles of pot everywhere, or burn it; in which case the smoke would be contaminated with smoke from the FB. It'd be so harsh i doubt they could inhale it if they wanted to.

Also the cloud of smoke wouldnt be around long enough for them to inhale enough THC for any effects to take place.

Oh yeah, and high temperatures (like that from exploding flash powder) destroy THC. And even if it did work, You would have to wait a few minutes for the effects of the drug to be felt and theres no way that they're going to be so impared that they are unable to play.

Unless there a serous lightweights anyhow. :D

[zeocrash]

yeah weed isn't powerful enough to be incapacitaiong in the way you mentioned. LSD on the other hand would fuck them. but do you really want to risk permenant damage, a to their minds and b to you if they have a bad trip believe they really are in battle and decide to murder you or something.
the flash bang and weed idea would probably work better when used with a large sack of snack food, as a munchies bomb.
seriously i wouldn't use real anesthetics in airsoft, why not just agree some rules with the other team for mock ansethetics. they dont really need to be incapacitated.
edit: does anyone know about heroin fumes, they would probably be more effective in a grenade, i know my mate once had to share a bus shelter with 2 guys who were chasing the dragon, the fumes wafted over him and he came into college totally mashed.

[Anath]

Well, this thread is really silly, but.. Here's some ideas for non-lethal, not likely to get you put in jail or hospital, airsoft / paintball "B0mbz".

Try getting one of those compressed-air "honkers" they sell at the footy, or sports shops. cut a bicycle tube into 1" wide 'ranger strips' or fat rubber bands, put the rubber band lengthwise on the can (over the horn). When you come up the structure full of opponents, slide the rubber band over the Honkers push button to hold it on, and toss it into the structure, the LOUD noise will distract and disorient them.

Black Cat fireworks sell cheap 'flashers' (magnesium strobe fireworks) that may blind someone with sensitive eyes on a dark night. They would perhaps serve to distract your opponents while you take them out, or you could mould a few together for more effect.

fill a plastic bag up with 'baby powder' or similar, maybe some pepper too. put in a large maroon. ignite fuse and toss into the 'fort'.

These should servge your purpose without any risks. leave the serious chemicals until you -really- need them. I guarantee if you start throwing incapacitants like Chloroform, LSD, Heroin fumes or more serious things like Chloropicrin or Acrolein around, you'll be getting shot at with something a little more dangerous than airsoft guns!

[FragmentedSanity]

Lo all :)
I find this an interesting idea, provided everyone in the game is aware of the dangers and obvious precautions are taken. I could be wrong, because im an Australian and Airsoft is just too dangerous for us to own :mad: but isnt the idea something like a training simulation. **rehashing something NBK said in an old thread somewhere** to really know how to go about knocking someone out with chloroform you need to know how it feels - on both sides of the equation, ie how it feels when you get anethestised and how much someone can struggle before they go under. The important part is knowing how much is too much and stopping before you reach that point. But this isnt just something you can read on a website - I mean research is vital - but its the hands on that really lodges the knowledge away in the brain for later use.

Still - chlorofor wouldnt be my choice for a simulation, as Im almost certain (never tried it on myself) that it results in a nasty "hangover". But if the intent really is a training sim or such then thats the price you pay to learn I guess.

Seeing as Seth said that total incapacitation wasnt necessary you could only make them breath enough to go a little fuzzy - then the player would become "unconcious" therefore out of the game / unable to shoot or move or whatever.

One substance that comes to mind in this vein is Amyl Nitrate - used as a heart medication, I remember it being big in some gay/club circles - called names like stud - or rush, as it supposedly intensified orgasm if you inhaled at the right time :rolleyes: Anyway - the one time SWIM experienced it - hold little bottle of solvent to nostril, inhale deeply - SWIM found it to be fairly disorienting - SWIMS head felt too big and kind of floaty...Southpark fans just think of the drugs are bad episode with the counciller tripping. The plus side was that it peaked at about 15 to 20 seconds and after 1 minute all was normal.
Of course this carries the similar risks to other solvents - I remember reports of youg people on Amyl having heart attacks. But if your generally healthy - no heart conditions - blood pressure and such it should be relativly harmless - I know people who could breath this stuff like air.
You could try nitrous oxide - it would have to be administeresd through some kind of mask - like a nebuliser. Is also very fast acting and fairly safe - mix in like 1 quater oxygen and you can stay on it as long as you want .

As for the russian hostage gassing - the results were still less than if the bomb went off - and the majorityof people who died were elderly or just unwell to begin with. Opiates effect everybody slightly differrently - maybe some of the deceased ate a grapefruit for breakfast or some prescription medicin that potentiates the opiate gas.

Now to the suggestion of using weed - it would probably work, the only problem is you could probably retire on he net worth. You CAN smooke the leaves just the same as Buds, but the desired product is strictly the little crysals that stick to the outside of the plant.

So for incapacitation - you'd need to find the heavies couch lock indica you vsn lsy your houde on - extract it to oil then vaporise that - in a cinfined sapce theoretically the target should be rushing bigtime.

not - ive been awake for more than 60 hours - sorry for any typo's

[ALENGOSVIG1]

Smoking pot leaves? Eeeeew!

[seth]

my primary concern is to get a group of peolpe impossible to react to a threat situation, and for those who still havent understood it its not an airsoft scenario.
A "weed bomb" is simply unefficient both for the reasons explained by someone else (cant remember the name right now) and both because the effect (it it WOULD work) is not sufficiently powerful.
Consider the scenario as a situatiion of real threat to your personal security, witch involves being stopped by the opponent to a situation whitch can lead to serious personal injury, so a knock-out similar situation is required.
I assume that a substance that produces an orgasm similar experiance will possibly create high blood pressure, having more celebral/fisical activity potential as a consequence, so not defeating the target in a semi-permanent way.

[VX]

GHB, the date rape drug, could be very useful. Lets face it, this is what it is used for! Although it isn't that fast working, the advantage is that you can give it to someone, and they wont know that they have had it and so won't have any reason to be alarmed, untill at some point, for no apparent reason they don't have a clue who they are :D

[seth]

yeah i heard about that drug, and actually was interested in it when i was in london this new years for .. well.. you figure out what. too bad i didnt find any in the stables market area.
anyhow my idea was more in the form of the "chloroform bomb" in some other section of this forum, so some volatile chemical is more the case against this, witch has to be ingested.

[zeocrash]

i believe amyl nitrates, or poppers as they are known over here are prefered in gay clubs because they relax your sphincter muscles (asshole).
infact one of the side effects of giving up my poppers habit was terrible constipation :( eew
still poppers have some nasty side effects and can kill anemics. also they sometimes give the user a splitting headache, wich i dont imagine they would be too pleased about after the game
edit: just to clarify, i did not use poppers for the purpose of widening my asshole, that was an unwanted side effect

[FragmentedSanity]

Lo again - I just woke up and looked at the last bit of that post - eeek, anyway it wont let me edit it anymore so ill give you all the jist of what my sleep deprived brain was tring to type.

A weed bomb IMO would be possible - and effective, but if you sold the weed you used to make it instead you could prolly buy a small island or such - but if you were a Government that wouldnt be a problem and the results would be better than killing 1 in 7 people. So for the purely theoretical here is the idea. Now we know that the plant matter in the weed to fairly worthless - its the crystals that stick to the outside of the plant that gets you high. These crystals can be extracted fiarly easily into a super potent oil. Now if a quantity of this was instantly vaporised within a confined space everyone in that space is going to be jello for the a while.
There is a bunch of different strains of MJ that all act slightly differently - for incapacitation cannibus indica, well matured, would be preferable - as its more prone to giving the user "couch lock" as opposed to an immature stavia variety, which has more "trippy" cerebral effects.
For those that still doubt the ability to incapacitate heres a lesser known fact about weed - its not actually a depressant - but is rather a hallucinagen, which is why some forms of injestion seem to work differently for the same amount of material - its the speed/quantity that you absorb it that determins effects. So if the room is full of super potent oil vapours then anyone in the room will be looking for the handlebars on the floor so they dont fall off. Sort of like the ultimate compression session :p

Oh - About the amyl-asshole effects thats new to me - but I only tried it once, I used to know a few people who could have told me more im sure :rolleyes: - lets just say this, gay guys are fun to party with - hardly ever any violence, lots of dancing and music, but the best part is that strait girls are drawn to them like flies and feel totally safe - so they get blitzed, then by the end of the night when the guys start leaving together, the girls get depressed... and can be very accomadating to any guy that happens to take an interest in them :D

Anyway to go back on topic - if this is a threat to your person - whats wrong with a lump of pipe to the head? its probably got about the same chance of you stuffing up and killing them as an anasthetic and is onlys slighty more prehistoric than chloroform / chlorobutanol and the like. Unless of course your some kind of chemist and can whip up synthetic opiates at will - and have the knowledge required to use them without killing the recipient. But if it is really a threat situation, and your not just throwing out hypotheticals to justify your asking, Id say go for a rapid addition of lead to the cranium.

[nbk2000]

A dilute solution of hydrazoic acid, explosively dispersed, would cause their blood pressure to drop so low that they'd pass out. 'Course, nasty side effects like death could occur, so it's not for silly games, but for serious matters.

Remember that anything capable fo causing unconciousness can also result in death, so the term "non-lethal" is inaccurate, while "less-lethal" (than bullets and frags) is more appropriate.

Knocking someone upside the noggin with a pipe means skull fractures, brain swelling, and death. Not a less-lethal approach at all.

[FragmentedSanity]

hehe - I know a pipe to the head is hardly LTL, my piont was that its roughly compareable to an inexperienced person trying to make and then administer archaic anesthetics.

I may have been a little blunt about it, but i was a tad annoyed by the scenario change - going from a game with friends to a direct threat totally changed the situation. Im of the opinion that a "... real threat to your personal security...(that) can lead to serious personal injury..." deserves a direct response, like a shot in the head, bullet or pipe or whatever you fancy. I see very little point using an anesethetic to knock them out, unless you plan on "playing" with the victim while they are out.

Consider for a moment getting caught - if you made and used some "knockout drops" on someone you would end up with a huge list of charges against you - assult, endangering life, - anything they can think of + drug charges. Being post 9/11 you might even end up with manufacturing / using chemical weapons or some such rubbish.
Or you bang someone on the head because they threatened you - you still get charged but it wouldnt be as serious, most likley only a single charge - Assult with a deadly weapon - or casuing GBH or similar - without the drug charges.

LTL combat options make an interesting topic, as would the airsoft scenario - but IMO asking for one when you want the other just results in the thread being filled with responses that arent applicable and wastes peoples time.

[seth]

Hi all, sorry for the late replys but i had no ´net access for some time.
Thanks to NBK2000 and fragmentedsanity for the comments....
Now i found out that NaN(3) is very interesting.. this is what i found:
"
Acute inhalation by humans of hydrazoic acid vapor (which forms when sodium azide contacts water) results in lowered blood pressure, eye irritation, bronchitis, headache, weakness, and collapse (Fairhall et al. 1943/Ex. 1-130; Graham 1949/Ex. 1-109). The exposure levels that produce these effects were not reported by these authors.
"

Also:
"
Haas and Marsh (1970/Ex. 1-121) reported that exposure to concentrations of hydrazoic acid vapor as low as 0.5 ppm "cause[d] some discomfort to laboratory personnel."
"

now i would define "discomfort" as the early symptoms of the basic intoxication, and probably it is nothing more than breathing problems and eye irritation. Headaches should not be present because the dose is not high enough to lower the blood pressure. Of course this is just my opinion.

So the question is: what is an effective dose?

Consider this:
"An intravenous dose of 1 mg/kg was reported to lower blood pressure in cats (Graham 1949/Ex. 1-109). "

now a cat is average 4 kg, and an average human is 70.
70/4=~20 , so we have that a 20mg dose (intravenous) is more than enough for humans.

Now there must be a ratio or similar to convert that amount into a vaporous ppm amount, so if you have clues about it, drop a note.

[rancid_matt]

If you want to know something about sleeping inducers (shit like barbiturates), just have a look at rhodium's page. www.rhodium.ws there's even a section about synthesising chloroform.

[zeocrash]

yeah we know about rhodium's page and we know about chloroform synthesis. this thread is more to do with the aplication of these substances rather than the production though

[streety]

I don't think you can easily convert an intravenous dose into a ppm dose. Your drug would need to cross membranes where it could be metabolised out f existance. There is also the problem of it taking more time to be effective if inhlaed as opposed to injected.

I read a while ago that a large dose of DMSO applied to the skin will cause unconsciousness with a very wide margin for error in terms of causing death. The source I read this in is not very reliable and I have been unable to find any other references to this use so it is probably incorrect. However DMSO does excellerate the movement of drugs across the skin so it may be a faster, more effective way of causing unconsciousness than vaporising your drug in the air. The risk of contaminating yourself whould also be reduced.

[NightStalker]

For a chemical with a molecular weight of 43, 1 ppm = .0018 mg/Liter OR 1mg/Liter = 556 ppm

mg/L = gm/Cubic Meter = ounce/1000 CFT

If we assume a lethal dose equal to HCN (very probable) of <20mg (absorbed), and a breathing rate of 8 liters of air per minute (resting, likely much higher), and a concentration of 1 oz/1,000 CFT, then that'd put a lethal dose in the target in less than 3 minutes, which would scale well with HCN toxicity of .3 oz/1,000 CFT/10 minutes (Prentiss).

Though, because of the rapid loss of conciousness and subsequent inability to flee the toxic atmosphere, you can assume it to be one-breath lethal at that concentration, as they'd take a breath, immediately start hyperventilating as they become disoriented and fall to the ground, there to die as they continue to breath in the poison, unable to escape it.

NIOSH exposure limit for an HN3 contaminated atmosphere is .11 ppm, for any length of time. Oh, and it's absorbed through intact skin too, so you'd need a suit for working in toxic enviroments, otherwise you'll get zapped that way. :(

If .5ppm is "irritating", than 5ppm should be positively toxic, eh? That's about .02 oz/1,000 CFT.

If you had control of the enviromental controls for the target, you might be able to inject the HN3 in a massive doseage, then immediately purge the atmosphere with fresh air. The intense initial concentration puts them out in a breath or two, with the fresh air purging possibly preventing lethal intoxication.

However, regardless of the purging, you're still very likely to have some fatalities. This is unavoidable. Especially if there's any old/sick/young people present.

The fentanyl series have been well studied and tested by a former superpower (russia) and when they used it in the checkneyan (SP?) theater rescue, they still killed about 15% of the people present.

And some of them have lethal doses less than that of VX, for gods sake!

What hope does some schmuck cooking up toxic shit in his kitchen have of not stuffing it up BIG TIME and killing every mutha-fucka' up in there? Not a whole hell of a lot, I think, whether it's chloroform, hydrogen azide, or fentanyl. :D

You'd be much better served to use an extremely debilitating arsenical chemical agents like adamsite or blue cross to reduce them to puking and twitching, and with dosages far below what you'd need with chloroform or such, as well as having lethal dosages far above (10,000+) that needed to have dramatic effects.

I recently found a US site that's selling 1oz bottles of arsenic pentoxide for $5, not including shipping, of course. There's less than a dozen left. Any staffers interested in this, ask NBK for the source, as I've already e-mailed it to him and my e-mail isn't working at the moment. Everybody else, don't even bother asking, as I am NOT sharing this source, Hive rules.

[Silentnite]

Hate to bring up an old thread but after some searching I still haven't found my answer and I don't want to start a new thread. That being said:

I accidently/on purpose made a batch of Chlorform. Unfortunately I made ALOT of it. By using NBK's 2nd method, I came up with about 50mL's the first time but most of it evaporated and I ended up almost passing out. Fun times. So I tried again.

The second time I filled 2/3 of a 2L bottle with Bleach, and then the rest with Acetone, put the cap on and threw it in the snow. Damn near the entire bottle was full.

After experiencing its effects, I am still left with quite a bit and I was wondering if anyone knew of a safe way of disposing of it. From what I understand it should evaporate quite readily if I pour it out. I just would like to make sure.

It's in a 2L pop bottle, and the weather is snowy.

[Jacks Complete]

The biggest problem with Chloroform is the vapour pressure! The stuff boils at a low temp, and so evaporates really, really quickly.

I knocked myself out with it one time, you get the same awful headache that has been mentioned before - it is worse than Nitro (same sort of duration of hangover), or poppers (far shorter hangover), but not as bad as zinc (I doubt anything is as bad as Zinc! It lasted for 3 days) I took a good deep breath, another, then I screwed the top back on tight, and headed for bed. I think it affects the memory a little, as I don't recall getting into bed, but I woke up in bed some four hours later, head pounding. Total time, about 30-45 seconds, I reckon, from first breath in to reaching bed. This was 100% pure, chemical supplier bought stuff. Note that this was at gone 4 in the morning, exhausted but not able to sleep. Woken by alarm at 8. How long it would have kept me out for without being very tired, and actually sleeping, I canot tell.

Unless you could overpower your enemy/target completely for a full minute, I would suggest this would be a bad way to go. Someone with a bit of training will throw you off in seconds, to the extent of not holding the rag properly. The other way to go might be to throw a cup full over the target, as they could run, but would still fall down quite rapidly. A guy would be unlikely to scream, and you have to take a deep breath first!

Might be better using the "ziplock garrotte" and then cutting it away with specially made pliers, carefully using the chloroform to keep them out.

As for disposal, just pour it down the path, walking upwind. It will just disipate. The bleach will kill the grass, though!