A232 / A232x ?

[vxmh]

Does anyone heared about A232 ? I only now that A232 is a news Nerve Agent invented in Russia.
I want to now something about its formula and toxity.

[Kriegsminister]

All you need to know can be found here: How to make A232 (http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/misc.php?s=&action=faq&page=4 )

[vxmh]

Sorry , your link doesn't match to my thema. I only askled for some information about the nerveagent A232. I know that it works like vx and other V - agents. It is a serious question.

[Anath]

Sounds like something similar to Novichok, a VX derivitave.. take a look at

http://www.nbcdefence.net/nore/novi_1.htm

and do a (google) search for Vladimir Pasechnik as well.

hope that helps.

[vxmh]

Thank you very much. thats a good link.

[Kriegsminister]

You should read the text anyway... More precisely you should have read it BEFORE posting.

[vxmh]

I have read the text. Where is the Problem ? Give me a hint please, to know what i do wrong.

[DBSP]

Since I don't know shit about battelfield chemestry I can't really tell wether this is an apropriate topic, someone else will have to decide that. BUT I can tell you that you should stop making stupid one line replies, they are wortheless and don't add anyting of any greater value.

If you don't have anything relevent to say then don't say anything at all.

[megalomania]

Here is a topic that should have piqued my interest, but escaped my notice. While browsing for some chemical weapons info I stumbled on a reference to Novichok agents. Of particular interest is Novichok 5, supposedly 5 to 8 times more effective that VX. Unfortunatly the only information I can seem to find is that same damn quote, Novichok 5 is 5 to 8 times more effective that VX. I will assume “effective” is an understatement for deadly. A search of The Forum only turned up this thread.

The suggestion to search about Vladimir Pasechnik seems to be no good as he is a microbiologist. Vil Mirzayanov seems to be the only guy around willing to talk about Novichok agents. I see he published a book, so I wonder if there are any interesting details. Finding real chemical weapons info on the net is like prospecting for plutonium, you can spend your life doing it and never find anything. Of course all I need is a place to start: a formula, a chemical structure, a journal reference, something to lead me in the right direction. Hopefully not someplace where everything is written in Russian :)

Update: Not to contradict my previous analogy, but I have found a pearl of information. Apparently one of the binary components of Novichok 5, or rather A-232 is acetonitrile. A variant of A-232 is A-234, which uses ethyl alcohol instead of acetonitrile. The other binary component is a simple organphosphorus compound likely to be mistaken for a pesticide and not on the list of the Chemical Weapons Convention. I also read the two components have never been used or considered as chemical weapons, and thus get around the terms of the CWC.

We can assume this stuff is an organophosphorus compound, that’s a given, and now we know it easily forms esters and what with. We also know the other half is not a very complicated molecule. I have also heard this substance is rather easy to manufacture. I would speculate the possibility exists that this chemical weapon may be a variant of an existing pesticide that uses acetonitrile in place of some other compound. I would also venture a guess fluorine is involved somewhere.

Imagine the possibility that hidden within the pages of the Dictionary of Organophosphorus Compounds could be the key component of one of the deadliest substances known to man. Just add acetonitrile…

[akinrog]

Sorry to review a four years old thread but I believe instead of starting a new one, continuing an existing one is better.

A few days ago, while renaming my files into more understandable names, I came across a file, which I renamed as "Compendium of Chemical Warfare Agents - Steven L. Hoenig (2007).pdf".

Although the book is not good in synthetical aspects, it has a good deal of info on G and novichok type agents.

However there is a word of warning: He says he is making educated guesses about some novichok agents.

But the book contains chemical structures, some info about physical properties and almost nothing on toxicity of novichok agents (it says no data available).

If somebody is interested and nobody yet uploaded it, then I may upload it to the FTP. Regards

[megalomania]

That is a very good book, I had it for a time from the library, and I would want it again. Please do upload it. I don't know if I already have this book in e- format, but better safe than sorry. I used the book as a source of CAS numbers and structures to run literature searches on all the major chemical weapons. I found a few I didn't know about, and of course the Novichok info is better than anything else out there.

[akinrog]

Please do upload it.

Sir,

Please check within one hour the above mentioned file under FTP's /UPLOAD/AKINROG folder. Regards

[megalomania]

I already got it. Thank you very much, that seems to be the book. I can never remember that name of this book, it's one of those names that just won't stick in my mind. I know I have it written down somewhere, but it is hard to search for something when you don't know what it is. All I know is what the cover looks like, and the contents. This is why I have started photographing the covers of interesting books I get at the library. There it is...

[Enkidu]

Here are the pages that deal with the Novichok agents. The pages contain structures, but he is somewhat ambiguous, as akinrog stated, as to whether or not those are the actual compounds or extrapolations. He doesn't give any references. (:mad:)

Apparently, household bleach can be used for (part of?) the decontamination procedure.

[megalomania]

I can do you one better, when I got this book last year I tracked down the references since he was nice enough to supply the CAS numbers :)

There is just one slight problem, which is why I didn't actually get these references, none of them are in English :(

Synthesis of A-230:
Fluorination of dioxa- and oxazaphospholanes. Lindemann, D.; Riesel, L. Fachbereich Chem., Humboldt-Univ., Berlin, Germany. Zeitschrift fuer Anorganische und Allgemeine Chemie (1992), 615 66-72. Journal written in German.

Condensation of acid fluorides of glycol phosphites with diene hydrocarbons. Petrov, A. A.; Razumova, N. A.; Evtikhov, Zh. L. Leningr. Tekhnol. Inst., im. Lensoveta, Leningrad, USSR. Zhurnal Obshchei Khimii (1967), 37(6), 1410-11. Journal written in Russian.

Nuclear magnetic resonance study of derivatives with a dioxaphospholane ring. Gagnaire, Didier; Robert, Jean B.; Verrier, Jean. Lab. Chim. Org. Phys., C.E.N., Grenoble, Fr. Bulletin de la Societe Chimique de France (1966), (12), 3719-25. Journal written in French.

OK, now I feel the fool because I can't find the rest of my files. I know I snagged the references, I just don't know where I put them, or what I may have named them. Hmm, my master excel file also has different CAS numbers for nerve agent A-230, nerve agent A-232, and nerve agent A-234... 26102-97-6, 26102-98-7, and 26102-99-8 respectively.

My references for A-230 were actually from 3 years ago, those can't be the ones I am looking for because I know I grabbed a bunch in the last few months, and that book only came out last fall.

Damn computers, and damn 1TB of files!

Ah ha! The files were hiding on my memory stick, I guess they didn't sync like they were supposed to...

Here is another ref for A-230...
Phosphorus-fluorine chemistry. VII. Synthesis and coordination chemistry of the fluorophosphites. Schmutzler, Reinhard. E. I. du Pont de Nemours and Co., Inc., Wilmington, DE, Chemische Berichte (1963), 96(9), 2435-50. Journal language unavailable. (I would say this is in German)

Reaction of a-chloronitrosoalkanes with phospholanes and iminophosphites. Kruglyak, Yu. L.; Malekin, S. I.; Leibovskaya, G. A.; Khromova, Z. I.; Sretenskaya, I. I.; Martynov, I. V. Moscow, USSR. Editor(s): Grechkin, N. P. Khim. Primen. Fosfororg. Soedin., Tr. Konf., 4th (1972), Meeting Date 1969, 307-12. Publisher: "Nauka", Moscow, USSR. Conference written in Russian.

Phosphorylated oximes. XII. Reactions of 2-halophospholanes with dichlorofluoronitrosomethane. Kruglyak, Yu. L.; Malekin, S. I.; Martynov, I. V. USSR. Zhurnal Obshchei Khimii (1972), 42(4), 811-14. Journal written in Russian.

Mechanism of the reaction of  -chloronitrosoalkanes with phosphorus(III) compounds. Malekin, S. I.; Yakutin, V. I.; Sokal'skii, M. A.; Kruglyak, Yu. L.; Martynov, I. V. USSR. Zhurnal Obshchei Khimii (1972), 42(4), 807-11. Journal written in Russian.

Carbonyl halide oxime b-chloroalkyl fluorophosphates. Martynov, I. V.; Kruglyak, Yu. L.; Malekin, S. I. U.S.S.R. (1969), SU 241433 19690418 Patent written in Russian. Application: SU 19680325.

Synthesis of A-232
Phosphorus-containing heterocycles. XV. Acid fluorides of glycolphosphorous acids. Razumova, N. A.; Evtikhov, Zh. L.; Petrov, A. A. Leningrad. Tekhnol. Inst. im. Lensoveta, Leningrad, USSR. Zhurnal Obshchei Khimii (1968), 38(5), 1117-22. Journal written in Russian.

Condensation of acid fluorides of glycol phosphites with diene hydrocarbons. Petrov, A. A.; Razumova, N. A.; Evtikhov, Zh. L. Leningr. Tekhnol. Inst., im. Lensoveta, Leningrad, USSR. Zhurnal Obshchei Khimii (1967), 37(6), 1410-11. Journal written in Russian.

Phosphorylated oximes. XII. Reactions of 2-halophospholanes with dichlorofluoronitrosomethane. Kruglyak, Yu. L.; Malekin, S. I.; Martynov, I. V. USSR. Zhurnal Obshchei Khimii (1972), 42(4), 811-14. Journal written in Russian.

Carbonyl halide oxime b-chloroalkyl fluorophosphates. Martynov, I. V.; Kruglyak, Yu. L.; Malekin, S. I. U.S.S.R. (1969), SU 241433 19690418 Patent written in Russian. Application: SU 19680325.

Synthesis of A-234
Phosphorus-containing heterocycles. XV. Acid fluorides of glycolphosphorous acids. Razumova, N. A.; Evtikhov, Zh. L.; Petrov, A. A. Leningrad. Tekhnol. Inst. im. Lensoveta, Leningrad, USSR. Zhurnal Obshchei Khimii (1968), 38(5), 1117-22. Journal written in Russian.

of a-chloronitrosoalkanes with phospholanes and iminophosphites. Kruglyak, Yu. L.; Malekin, S. I.; Leibovskaya, G. A.; Khromova, Z. I.; Sretenskaya, I. I.; Martynov, I. V. Moscow, USSR. Editor(s): Grechkin, N. P. Khim. Primen. Fosfororg. Soedin., Tr. Konf., 4th (1972), Meeting Date 1969, 307-12. Publisher: "Nauka", Moscow, Conference written in Russian.

Phosphorylated oximes. XII. Reactions of 2-halophospholanes with dichlorofluoronitrosomethane. Kruglyak, Yu. L.; Malekin, S. I.; Martynov, I. V. USSR. Zhurnal Obshchei Khimii (1972), 42(4), 811-14. Journal written in Russian.

Mechanism of the reaction of  -chloronitrosoalkanes with phosphorus(III) compounds. Malekin, S. I.; Yakutin, V. I.; Sokal'skii, M. A.; Kruglyak, Yu. L.; Martynov, I. V. USSR. Zhurnal Obshchei Khimii (1972), 42(4), 807-11. Journal written in Russian.

Carbonyl halide oxime b-chloroalkyl fluorophosphates. Martynov, I. V.; Kruglyak, Yu. L.; Malekin, S. I. U.S.S.R. (1969), SU 241433 19690418 Patent written in Russian. Application: SU 19680325.

There you have it folks, nothing new about any of these references, and notice there is a good bit of overlap. Not one word in any of those references is in English either. Obviously these chemicals have languished in obscurity for some time, locked away in Russian journals waiting to be uncovered by enterprising Forumites.

Now then, I might be persuaded to get some of these IF someone can translate them into English. There may be an English translation of Zhurnal Obshchei Khimii available already.

Notice the complete lack of any publications in US or UK journals. Looks suspicious right? This is probably intentional fedgov censorship. If you will recall, I made a post about how the Russians intentionally published everything they had on chemicals weapons in the hopes someone would use the information to attack the imperialist pig-dogs in America and score great victory for Mother Russia without CCCP getting hands dirty :D

I would never actually try this considering how insanely toxic these compounds could be, so just this once we can indulge in a little theory. At least there is hard data to back up these reaction schemes. A synthesis scheme might be thus: Novichoks are apparently binary agents, simple mixing may be all that is required to achieve a reaction. We have our choice of three starting materials for binary agent “A” including ethylene phosphorofluoridite; cyclic phosphorofluoridite 1,2-propanediol; and cyclic 1,2-dimethylethylene ester phosphorofluoridous acid (these being H-H, H-CH3, and CH3-CH3 substituted respectively). We combine one of these with our “B” binary component, dichlorofluoronitrosomethane. There are two synthesis references for dichlorofluoronitrosomethane from the Encyclopedia of Explosives:
N.N. Yarovenko & S.P. Motornyi, ZhObshchKhim 30, 4066 (1960) & CA 55, 20928e (1961)
I.V. Martynov & Yu,L. Krugylak, ProblOrganSinteza-AkadNaukSSSR, OtdObshchITeknKhim 1965, 56 & CA 64, 8022h (1964). More Russian stuff…

I like this part from the book if you are exposed to Novichok: Hold breath and don respiratory protection mask. Ha! At 10x more toxic than VX that will be the last breath you ever take.

[sbovisjb1]

I know German, Dutch and French. I will goto the university and get these books and try to translate as best as I can. The Russian may be a slight problem. As long as most of it is a detailed synthesis, I should be able to get it up shortly. I will ask a Prof who knows Russian to go through the Russian text(s) with me, I will say I am doing research on it, in the lab and none of the students know Russian. :D

[Enkidu]

I will say I am doing research on it, in the lab and none of the students know Russian. :D

Uh... doing research in the lab with a potent chemical agent? :eek: I'd come up with a better excuse! Haha.

[sbovisjb1]

My friend when you tell the students to do a job for you, considering that its a Biochemistry laboratory, and many dangerous regents are experimented upon here, for various experimental reasons. This material will be the least hazardous agent in the lab. The students know this, the lab staff know this and their salary/allowances depend on it.

[sbovisjb1]

Sorry (I can't edit the post) I am in infectious diseases.