bioweapons

[hno3]

Hmmm, i have always been interested in different biochem synthesis, but i could never find anything on the synthesis of actual bioweaps like anthrax or to cultivate the common cold, i have studyed many things on ricin and botulin, but have never foud anything on actual bactirial disorders. Not that i would want to make them i just like to know how such things are done. I am extensively interested in that feild of study but im not going anyware.
:(

[0EZ0]

First post, new topic. Go read the rules before you get into any more trouble.

Mods?

[xyz]

Err... The common cold is a virus and IIRC viruses can't be easily cultivated, only bacteria.

[MrSamosa]

I don't know much in the area of Biologicals, though I have a bit of knowledge from reading through a book on Microbiology and Immunology. The first and perhaps most important aspect of cultivating any bacteria/mold is to know as much as possible about what it is you want to cultivate!

Know what conditions the mold grows under- temperatures, lighting, aerobic or anaerobic- know about competing bacteria/molds, and the conditions they grow under, and then try to make the growing environment as selective as possible- in favor what you want to cultivate. If possible, find ways to kill competing growths, to ensure they never get far.

If the bacteria creates a toxin, look into its solubility, and use an appropriate solvent to extract it. In the case of Castor Beans, Ricin is soluble in many common organic solvents. Botulinum I'm not terribly sure about - it does not seem to be an effective weapon. It is a sissy bacteria, sensitive to air, light, and dirty looks. In my humble opinion, the most effective Biological/Toxin weapon was T2 Toxin ("Yellow Rain").

[Al Nobel]

The biggest problem is to isolate the correct bacteria/virus.
It`s damned easy to cultivate bakteria and it´s even possible to cultivate viruses at home.The problem is to avoid any kind of contamination.If you have achieved all this then there is still the problem to bring your bio agent to a weapon grade state.

If you want an easy ``bio agent`` for use in food contamination then cultivate any kind of bacterial intestine illness or stuff like that.Just lick the ground in a public toilet and wait a few days.Then you should have many interesting germs to work with.

[hno3]

sorry 0EZ0, im sooo stupid, ididnt read the rules, sorry!

[thermobaric]

Here's an interesting article on incubation and isolation of poxvirus' in chicken embryo.http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3855/is_200411/ai_n9467926

[teshilo]

synthesis of actual bioweaps like anthrax :(:) :)
Very good joke..Actual info about cultivation /obtain various type of bacteria and extraction biotoxins, you can got from colledge level textbooks.For start and basic: read the classic "Silent Death" by Uncle Fester...Also these for help "Principles and Practice of Infectious Diseases", Sixth Edition http://rapidshare.de/files/22997675/Mandell_6_.chm

[FullMetalJacket]

Teshilo, I'm sure I didn't just see you recommend somebody to read an uncle Fester text to learn something?

[c.Tech]

Teshilo, I'm sure I didn't just see you recommend somebody to read an uncle Fester text to learn something?

I don’t see anything wrong with that book, it’s a good place for beginners who know absolutely nothing about poisons and alike.

It may not be advanced or 100% accurate but is still a good read.

[FullMetalJacket]

I haven't read that particular text, but I will now. It was my understanding that Uncle Fester was irresponsible and outlined foolishly-presented and dangerous procedures. That's the way his explosives synths seemed, at least.

[c.Tech]

I've noticed that too in silent death, such as using chewing gum and a cork stopper in nerve gas synthesis. :p

Although I’m assuming people are looking for information and if they had enough common sense they would know what to and not to trust.

Silent death brings chemical reactions, toxicity, effects and other information into sight but fails to have a safe method of using or making the products.

[FullMetalJacket]

Ah-ha, that's no problem then. If I have the stoichiometric reactions I'm sure I could figure it out from there, along with any other help his procedures entail. Should be easy to adapt it to a safe method. Maybe I'll do that to his entire book, re-upload it for all my fellow Megalomaniacs.

[sbovisjb1]

Anthrax is found in cows. Goto your local university farm and most of the time, they will have a few samples. Anthrax is harmfull to cows and students often have to do experiments on this (Causes, how to eliminate it, harmfull properties to humans and how it can be transferred). Dont go round trying to get some samples, Its often in small quantities and well it wont do much. If you are in the study for infectious diseases and are doing your post graduate thesis, you should be able to get hold of something such as the Spanish Flu, but Its under strict controll and you need to have a good reason to get hold of the virii and well they are studying so that they can understand more about the birdflu. (How diseases such as this can be transmitted).

[nbk2000]

That last post was so k3wL'ish it made my claws twitch! :mad:

...you should be able to get hold of something such as the Spanish Flu,...

Considering how much effort the US military went through to obtain it from the frozen corpses of eskimoes in a mass grave in the arctic, and it being the last pandemic flu capable of killing many millions of healthy adults, I'd say the likelyhood of it ever leaving the confines of USAMRIID's freezer in the Level 4 containment lab in CDC Atlanta, for examination by anyone outside of the innermost circle of the Military-Industrial complex, is approaching ∞.

Though here's one site saying vaccinations were the actual cause of the 1918 pandemic:

http://whale.to/vaccine/sf1.html

[sbovisjb1]

That last post was so k3wL'ish it made my claws twitch! :mad:

Sorry about that :o. But infectious diseases post-docs, with a good reason, MAY be able to get hold of some, if for example they are trying to discover the origins of the flu in a new manner and can prove it to be feasible, but then again such experiments would be highly controlled.

[Hirudinea]

Though here's one site saying vaccinations were the actual cause of the 1918 pandemic:


Actually somelab in Winipeg rebuilt some Spanish Flu and, among other things, they found that it was very similar to the Chicken Flu we have kicking around today, just genetically better at infecting humans (it had a things for hairy dudes I guess.)

They also injected the Zombie Flu (well the did bring it back from the dead :D ) into some monkeys and all of them died exactly the same way people did from the original Spanish Flu, cytokine storm, their imune systems went nuts and flooded their lungs, drowning them.

Oh and for an interesting posion, not somthing the average guy could get, but I'm sure is on all good goverment shelves, is TGN1412, it was supposed to be a treatment for arthritis or somthing like that, but in the six people it was tried on, it caused a cytokine storm in 6 of them, in doses lower than were to be given in normal use. I doubt someone coming into an emergency room with such symptoms would even be seen as poisioned, check out the link for more info (on wikipedia, hey what can I do.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TGN1412

[FullMetalJacket]

That sounds delicious.

[sbovisjb1]

Actually somelab in Winipeg rebuilt some Spanish Flu and, among other things, they found that it was very similar to the Chicken Flu we have kicking around today, just genetically better at infecting humans (it had a things for hairy dudes I guess.)

Actaually its Winnipeg ;). And its in Friendly Manitoba. Regardless, Winnipeg is one of the Infectious diseases leaders in the world. :D. In all seriousness, the use of bioweapons is to create fear (Obviously). If people see the nasty effects and its an "airborne" disease or the like which can get anyone (or so they believe), its a much more effective weapon. Nukes are scary because of the amount of destruction they can create (like the death star). Now if any k3wl (anti-social) thinks that this will be the ultimate weapon... it's not. It may make people sick (a lot of them), kill a few, but it will not effect the out come of the war.

[FullMetalJacket]

I'm forced to disagree with you.

Whilst fear plays a major part in the adoption and use of BW agents, they have major, major potential to kill many, many people, especially some of the more virulent viruses or chimaeras (such as the Soviet's Ebola/Smallpox motherfucker)

[FUTI]

FMJ can you post some link for that claim. I'm unaware that Soviet's make such shit. I know they made mutated plague though so you could be right but I prefer to know the facts. Thanks in advance.

Soviet's considered bioweapons as very good weapons. They even made their first BM cary bio-warhead before nukes (and no mass of the warhead wasn't an issue for them if you ask yourself). Plague was their natural choice for start...they have anti-plague stations array since 19th century Russia that collected various strains soo...starting material wasn't an issue.

[sbovisjb1]

I'm forced to disagree with you.

Whilst fear plays a major part in the adoption and use of BW agents, they have major, major potential to kill many, many people, especially some of the more virulent viruses or chimaeras (such as the Soviet's Ebola/Smallpox motherfucker)
But with modern science, the outcomes and effects of such weapons will be greatly minimized (hopefully), but even if it works, It will still scare EVERYONE.

[Hirudinea]

Actaually its Winnipeg .

My mistake.

And its in Friendly Manitoba. Regardless, Winnipeg is one of the Infectious diseases leaders in the world.

Yep, a level 4 lab, and in winter its so ****ing cold if any germs get out they'll be flash frozen anyway. :D

In all seriousness, the use of bioweapons is to create fear (Obviously).

Bioweapons of the past would probably been best used as terror weapons, and thats probably what terrorists will use them for in the future, but with the full resourses of a nation behind bioweapons research who knows what someone could get up to.

BW agents, they have major, major potential to kill many, many people, especially some of the more virulent viruses or chimaeras (such as the Soviet's Ebola/Smallpox motherfucker)

I'm unaware that Soviet's make such shit. I know they made mutated plague though so you could be right but I prefer to know the facts.

I believe that in Ken Alabek's book he described a researcher who took a rabbit virus, somthing similar to flu in humans, and added a genetic marker for the myalin (spelling) sheath coating nerves in animals. The rabbits were infected with the modified virus, devloped the flu as expected, and the flu passed and the rabbits seemed healthy. After 3 months the rabbits started to devlope the symptoms of MS, a disease caused by the immune system attacking and destorying the myalin sheath coating the nerves, 100% of the rabbits exibited symptoms and, had they not been destoryed to be studied, would have gone on to devlope full blown MS and die. So how does this apply to humans? Simple, modify a virus most people get, a cold or flu virus, the same way the rabbit virus was modified and release it into the enviroment, then sit back and watch the fun begin.

[FUTI]

I agree. If someone start playing with virus based bioweapons we are seriously fu*ked. I know that virus based bioweapons exist....what I meant was if someone start changing them and producing them on large scale. Hell if they form lasting virus of ebola type we can kiss ourself goodbye.

Does anyone have that book? I read some other book and was amazed that USSR had (among other stuff) 11000 tonnes (!) of anthrax spores (I guess with diluent used for freeze-drying).

[Hirudinea]

I agree. If someone start playing with virus based bioweapons we are seriously fu*ked. I know that virus based bioweapons exist....what I meant was if someone start changing them and producing them on large scale.

Well flu viruses are mass produced in chicken eggs so the productionm of modified viruses is not the main problem, the genetic manipulation is the big hurtle.

Hell if they form lasting virus of ebola type we can kiss ourself goodbye.

Or a virus that makes the immune system destory reproductive cells and "Children of Man" isn't just a movie.

I don't have the book but you could get hard copies at the library, there are also other books on Russian bioweapons devlopement, also you should check projectw.org and ebooksclub.org (which I myself haven't checked, but will.)

[nbk2000]

I read it and found quite interesting.

[TreverSlyFox]

Anthrax is found in cows.

Actually, you can find Anthrax (if you know what your looking for) in the dirt of anyplace an anthrax outbreak has occured. Anthrax is easy to recover and culture in large amounts by anyone that knows what he's doing.

60 Minutes or 20/20 did a report on it a few years ago. The problem becomes in the weaponization (making it an areosol of fine particles) for "effective" dispersement. IIRC the idea was to get it to 1 micron or less in size which took expensive equipment.

[Hirudinea]

The problem becomes in the weaponization (making it an areosol of fine particles) for "effective" dispersement. IIRC the idea was to get it to 1 micron or less in size which took expensive equipment.


Also when you make particles that small they tend to stick togther through static electricity, which is the real head scratcher, that was the problem the biowarfare labs had solving.

[nbk2000]

The ideal particle size is 2-5 microns.

>5 microns = Too big to get into lungs

<2 microns = Too small to stay in lungs

[FullMetalJacket]

The book that I read a lot of my stuff from was Plague Wars, by Tom Mangold. I recently lost my copy, so I'm going to buy the latest edition, but it's a great text about the modern history of BW and is full of little gems and useful knowledge. It's what first got me started on this course of study.

[Gerbil]

A viral weapon effective enough to cause serious damage would make nuclear MAD look like a kiddie playfight. If you were to create and release something with highly efficient spread capacity, it would almost certainly come back to your door.

Possessing them is great for psychological impact, though.

[chemdude1999]

Good point, Gerbil. I suppose we can consider the bio-weapons being produced probably will never be used. It is like 21st century MAD. A super-charged version of brinkmanship, if you will.

However, their study is impossible for me to resist at least in theory. :D

[ciguy007]

Recovering anthrax in the USA is going to be difficult at best since large animals (cattle, horses, other herbivores) are almost completely vaccinated against anthrax.

Theoretically, the best bet for recovering pathogenic anthrax would be ATCC (American Type Culture Collection LOL) or a trip to a portion of the globe where animal immunizations have broken down and/or where anthrax is endemic in the local fauna.

Curiously, the russians published data indicating that ebola is only pathogenic for a matter of minutes in air, UNLESS it is mixed with artificial saliva or a glycerin solution. Curious that the Russians would do that kind of research, and publish it.

If you were to design a WMD virus, you might well wind up with HIV. It's contagious, it's spread through sexual contact (and a lot of people simply won't practice safe sex - and the rest are too prudish to teach safe sex to children), it has a long latent period, it attacks the immune system first, and there is no effective cure. Between HIV and genocide, Africa may wind up over 50% depopulated. The book "the coming wars with china" describes a HIV epidemic of phenomenal proportions fueled by a 60's style sexual revolution, the introduction of HIV from heroin users in the south of the country and contact with infected (drug addict) prostitutes by truck drivers who drive all over china. It'll be interesting to watch

Anthrax? I have been told by a former US bioweaponeer that the stuff used in DC and NJ had >10^17 spores per gram - at least an order of magnitude better than the US ever achieved - with better particle size and little-to-no evidence of milling. Definitely superior to anything the US weaponized.

[cyclosarin]

I don't know how much this has been in the news but there has been another major ebola outbreak in the Congo, with over 100 deaths so far.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn12624-ebola-outbreak-confirmed-in-congo.html