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Flake2m
October 30th, 2003, 02:04 AM
What do you think the most versatile explosive compound is?
There are hundreds of different types of explosive compounds known to man, only a small fraction of these are extensively used.

The best grounds to detirmine this would be on the following areas;
Ease of manufature
Stability/sensitivity, ease of detonation
Avalibility and cost of Precursers
Power - VoD, brisience etc
Uses in military/civilian applications.
Performance in shaped charges, demolitions, mining.

Just a few ground rules:
1. This is judging an explosive compound not composition, so RDX can be judged but not C-4, Nitroglyercine can be judged but not Dynamite. However, if the compound works better when mixed with other compounds, such as Al or a binder this can be noted.
2. No flaming of the m[g]ods or other users.
3. Try to provide some reasonable supportting evidence when making your argument or rebutting someone elses.

EDIT: some spelling errors.

xyz
October 30th, 2003, 04:06 AM
I say nitrocellulose, where would projectile weapons technology be without it? The military would be using BP.
It can also be used as a high explosive when a detonator is used, or as a low explosive if simply ignited.
It can be added to NG to gel it for use in detcord or other applications.
And it is also easy to make from readily available precursors (H2SO4, A nitrate, and plain old cotton or paper)

I also say Ammonium Nitrate, it is readily available, cheap as dirt, powerful (but not brisant :( ), and can be used in a variety of easily made mixtures and cheddites. Unfortunately it can be a bit hard to detonate but it can be powdered or "activated" to make it's compositions sensitive to a No. 6 cap. It can also be used as a precursor for many other high explosives.

Microtek
October 30th, 2003, 10:36 AM
I would definately say RDX. It performs very well in almost every test, is easy to produce, quite easy to initiate but reasonable insensitive, heat resistant and chemically very stable. The only problem is that it is so difficult to press to a high density.

Maniak
October 30th, 2003, 01:26 PM
I agree, RDX is the best. I make three times more RDX than PETN or EGDN. Itīs the cheapest explosive for me :D and the most brizant explosive which I can make too...
Everybody needs high density explosive, the best way is plastification of RDX - there is only small lose of brizance, especially when you use some insensitive nitroester for it.

megalomania
October 30th, 2003, 05:10 PM
I am leaning towards ammonium nitrate. You can't get an easier to synthesize or cheaper explosive, it's available by the ton, rather safe to work with, and has probably done more to shape the civilized nations of the world that any other explosive. Sure it may not be the most powerful, or the easiest to detonate, but it gets the job done.

Ollie Snowie
October 30th, 2003, 06:12 PM
Nitrogen Triiodide!!!!1 Whoopeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111 :D

Nawwwww...

I am thinking about the nitro(carbohydrate) esters; they can behave as both primary and secondary explosives (they can also deflagrate), they can be dissolved and cast, they are quite stable (at least the simple ones are) and the precursors for the ones you are likely to make are cheap and fairly easy to get.
The drawbacks are that some of them decompose over time, and the nitro(polysaccharide)s vary from batch to batch.
I have never actually dreamed of any high explosives, except TACN, so this is all gathered from the internet.

A-BOMB
October 30th, 2003, 07:54 PM
Though this is a mixture I like AP puddy, any time I go out on "walk" I take a few slabs of it a .25" thick a about 4"x4" in one of those metal AOL tins, with 2' of fuse, a razor blade and a roll of tape that I cut open so it lays flat. This kit does wonders sometimes.

longwaytofall
October 31st, 2003, 02:08 AM
i would say rdx is far as military is concerned, because of its large use there. but i would also have to go with the last few posts in say AN is the most useful in terms of moving earth and improving the recovery of precious stones and metal.

mongo blongo
October 31st, 2003, 09:47 AM
I would also say RDX as it is one of the most widely used explosives in the world. It's not as easy to make as AN but for some people like me AN is almost impossible to find. The precursors for RDX are very easy to come by. Our RDX may even be more powerful than military RDX as we do not usually bother to remove the HMX impurity. There is supposed to be more HMX produced if you synthesize RDX via nitrating DPT (3,7-dinitro-1,3,5,7-tetraazabicyclo[3.3.1]nonane) which is made from Hexamine Dinitrate and H2SO4. :)
Basically RDX = sweet!

simply RED
November 2nd, 2003, 02:43 PM
I think it is urea nitrate.
1. Easy to produce (no way to produce 10kg RDX).
2. Cheap.
3. Absolutely available materials.
4. Low sensitivity , but rasonably easy to initiate.
5. Enough powerful for normal activities, 500 grams can initiate every ammount of anfo.

The major disadvantage - has to be stored in glass jars.

Jumala
November 3rd, 2003, 05:57 PM
For me is the possibility of home manufacturing one of the most important propertys.

1. Ammoniumnitrate in its different compositions (with oil, wax, nitromethane)
Nitromethane is easy to get but expensive and only in combination with AN useful.

2. PETN (ETN) is very easy to make, much easier than RDX because it needs no pure HNO3.
H2SO4 + nitrate works well. It is stable, sensitive and works in caps or as HE alone.
You can get PE (mono grade) in 25 Kg plasticbags I think
for less than 15 Euro/Kg . PE is used in making polyesters and resins/paint and it is not toxic.
So everyone can buy it.

3. NG, EGDN easy to make, stable but to sensitive. Perhaps in combination with AN.

pdb
November 4th, 2003, 11:42 AM
RDX has, I think, the highest score:

- synthesis is easy to conduct, the precursors are cheap in an industrial environment
- it is stable and reasonably insensitive; its insensibility can be easily improved by adding adjuvants without noticeably reducing its power
- it has a very high brisance -among the best-
- its usage is very versatile, thanks to a small detonation critical diameter.

HMX would surpass RDX, but its price is far to high for a "general purpose" usage.

Liquid explosives are not cheap, and their use is limited to specific task, where a container is provided.

Of course, from a strictly economical standpoint, nothing can beat AN mixutes and slurries. But these explosives are definitively limited to mining because of the high confinment required to ensure detonation.

Microtek
November 4th, 2003, 01:08 PM
Also, all the more sophisticated uses such as metal cutting, shaped charges, EFPs, etc. Are just about impossible with AN ( except for ANNM which is not really in the AN/fuel category ).
On the other hand RDX can be used for most things that AN can be used for, if the brisance is diluted somewhat ( as in military dynamite ).

Hystrix
November 4th, 2003, 02:05 PM
Versatile explosive? AN based compositions. They are cheap, rather powerful and readily modifiable. The advance of RDX is a high brisance but its cost is significantly higher, and we need high brisance rather seldom (for example, in shaped charges). AN mixtures are enough for most applications.

Wozzles
November 4th, 2003, 06:06 PM
I would have to say the best explosive compound would be AN. Extremly insensitive, easy to get, cheap, somewhat powerfull. plus, you can make HNO3 with it :).

Microtek
November 5th, 2003, 08:09 AM
It seems that there are basically two different opinions of what is being asked; one group thinks from an improvised viewpoint, while the other ( myself included ) has assumed that the question is about the art in general.
Whatever the case, the word "versatile" means "capable of many uses" according to a dictionary, and from this perspective, I really must insist that RDX is capable of many more uses than AN.
Just think about scale; RDX can be used in quite thin layers ( at least down to 3 mm ), while less than 500 g AN requires some good sensitizers and is hardly practical. Or assume that you needed to demolish something with iron reinforcements -- it would take tonnes of ANFO to cut the iron and you would get the construction materials scattered over half the city. On the other hand, a small amount of an RDX based explosive can cleanly cut the iron where you need it.

In my opinion, AN is unbeatable at earth moving, mining or brute-force applications, but anywhere else, it just doesn't measure up.

cutefix
November 5th, 2003, 07:25 PM
I have praises for RDX...
It can be detonated by itself(I mean sensitive enough to be initiated) if compared to AN. Therefore,
It can be used as a detonator booster.
It was once used as the one of the explosive component for the initiation of nuclear weapons.
Ammonium nitrate to be useful as an explosive needs to be sensitized with fuels
RDX can be made easily and its explosive power can be modified by adding other ingredients
If used at the highest speed for shaped charges it needs that its content be maximized.
For high blast application it can be formulated with metals.It the most used explosive filler in missile warheads and component for general purpose bombs,mines, demolition charges etc such as th HBX series and PBXes

For underwater and in high altitude application such as in depth charges , mines , torpedoes, in anti aircraft shells) it can be made into a composite by combining with metals , powerful oxidizers, other explosives and even additional fuel binders.

In extreme cases the demilitarized RDX can be added to ammonium nitrate based industrial explosives and does a nice job.
Therefore I agree with Microtek and others that Cyclotrimethylenetrinitramine is the most versatile explosive and will remain for years to come.

Rosco Bodine
November 22nd, 2003, 10:45 AM
Picric Acid is undoubtedly the most versatile explosive .
Picric Acid is a fine high explosive by itself , and it is
the precursor for superior igniter and initiating explosives
that are also useful elements of a practical firing train .
Averaging all the desirable qualities and awarding the prize
to one candidate compound for overall usefulness , my vote
goes unequivocally to trinitrophenol . See references below .

Igniters :

US2175249 See example 2 for one of the best "first fire"
low order detonating flash igniters , a superbly useful
and easily made compound .
US3293091 See example 4 for a similarly useful different compound .
US1478429 See example 1 for the most simple and third variant which is the
parent compound for the two above compounds .

Initiators :

US3431156 Basic lead picrate / lead azide clathrates "azo-clathrate" primaries
These are worth the effort too .

A word of wisdom to experimenters , the real danger of inhalation of fumes
and vapors is a subtle presence always lurking . Never be careless about
precautions against vapors . I place a stick of incense burning nearby and
observe the small streamer of smoke trailing into the draft which is supposed
to be affording protection , as a visual indicator of airflow direction . Any
unexpected draft which disrupts the takeaway path for the airflow will be
accompanied by a perfuming of the air by the turbulence , which will get ones
attention with the suddenly noticed smell of the incense . Perhaps from
ancient times , this small offering to the air has been as practical as ceremonial .

Xioa
February 21st, 2004, 08:51 PM
Simply RED, how are the precursors for Urea Nitrate "Absolutely available?" Yes, Urea is easy to come by but the nitric acid is not. I'm not trying to question your opinion, i'm just making sure i'm not missing anything here...

simply RED
February 22nd, 2004, 05:55 AM
Here the HNO3 (60%) is sold 2 dolars for 4 liters. Urea is available in every agricultural shop. Acetone too.
The cheapest, safest and most easily improvised Xpl train (courtesy of 2003) (tested):
primer:
1gram HMTD + 1 gram RDX, PETN or NG ,,, or 2 grams HMTD
booster1:
70 grams Urea Nitrate in electrolyte capacitor.
booster2:
1kilo UN in nescafe tin can
main charge:
10 kilos amonal or anfo.
(Best composition: 94-5%AN, 5-6%liquid white bronze paint directly put into the AN). The paint contains xylene, hydrocarbons, acetone, MEK and finely dispersed alluminium, thus the best AN sensitizer.
RDX and PETN are also very good!. Actually, you must have at least some kind of home to make kilos of RDX inside. Pentaerythrite is unavailable here.
Another compound arised my interest recently: propanedioldinitrate. As propanediol is available here almost for free (2 dolars liter). I've heared that PDDN is less sensitive than NG.
Another interesting thing: I2O5 is sold here cheaply. Do you know can it be used as a dehydrator in some processes?
So, this is the reason i like UN so much - it can be made everywhere and dried on the water heating system (not in your room).

nuclearattack
March 7th, 2004, 07:38 AM
My favorite explosive is NG. I use it everywhere: to make dynamite, as a primary (or a booster) in my blasting caps, to sensitize ANFO, i love also to make HE round for my crossbow with NG. It is cheap, easy to make, powerfull and brisant and the chemicals are easy to obtain.
No doubt: if i need a powerfull HE (not a composition like kinepak or c4) i surely go for NG!

Cyclo_Knight
March 9th, 2004, 03:45 AM
It seems that every country has their own advantages when it comes to supplies. For instance, here in America I have NEVER seen ammonium nitrate fertilizer (of any decent purity). In the recent atmosphere post 9/11 i have gotten extremely suspicious looks when I asked about it!. I was even questioned when I bought some aluminum rods, Sulfuric acid, and HCL at Home Depot!

In December 2003 one store manager actually called the POLICE after I asked several employees of a greenhouse chain if they stocked AN fertilizer! I envy you guys in Switzerland who can walk into a store, and come out with a cartfull of AN and a side of Nitric Acid. I am sure if i asked my hardware store if they had any nitric acid i'd shortly be answering a nice police officers questions!

**mumbling to himself** Damn ragheads have to make my life more difficult..grumble....

EDIT: I forgot about the time I asked the guy at the hobby shop if they had any Nitromethane fuel for model planes....He asked for my address, and when I asked him why he needed it he replied: "Ummm...we need to uhh... verify your address to see if it matches the one on your credit card..."
Bullshit!(doesn't even make sense as I was paying cash!) He wanted to report my ass!

Ropik
April 22nd, 2004, 02:49 PM
I am leaning toward RDX or PETN. Picric acid is good, but the metal sensitivity is definitive disadvantage for me. I'm using it as BC booster (plastic bodies) but for larger charges... I don't like it.
My favourites are Methyl nitrate/Ammonium nitrate/Sawdust dynamite and Methyl nitrate/Nitrostarch plastic explosive - but if mixes cannot be judged I am sad and I raise my hand for RDX.