Legal Issues

[Kid Orgo]

Doing some reading on the net, I've come across some information that pertains to all of us, but the board operators in particular. Some of you may have heard of the case of a man called Sherman Austin, a california anarchist who was harassed and jailed (for a year in federal prison) in 2002. He ran a website (raisethefist.com), but also hosted other sites. One of the other things he hosted was a manual that contained a small bit of explosive knowledge. For that, he was prosecuted. Distributing fucking information. (source:
GuerillaNews (Although you can find other records other places) (http://www.guerrillanews.com/civil_liberties/doc2681.html) )

Enter Diane Feinstein.


On May 20, 1999, the U.S. Senate approved the Violent and Repeat Juvenile Offender Accountability Act of 1999 ... ... includes a provision introduced by Senator Feinstein to place limits on bombmaking information. The amendment would make it a federal crime to teach or distribute information on how to make a bomb or other weapon of mass destruction if the distributor intends that the information be used to commit a federal violent crime or knows that the recipient intends to use the information to commit a federal violent crime.

- Source: Feinstein's Senate Page (http://www.senate.gov/~feinstein/bombmaking.html)


Note that Sherman was not the author of said manual. The manual itself (http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/raisethefist/exit/weapons.html) (link to bomb section) is k3wl bullshit. "Run! The anarchists have matchheads!"

Before I get flamed, no, I don't agree with Sherman's politics. But that doesn't matter at all. The point is, this statute is unchallenged. People are in jail because of it. This is a matter vital to board security.




Further Information:
A site by a Republican with lots of information about the case. (http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/raisethefist/)
An internal memo containing an FBI study on what they know is available on the internet about "making bombs," (http://cryptome.org/abi.htm) contains information about the constitutionality of the measure used to imprison Sheman. I haven't read it yet, but I expect there will be a lot of interesting tidbits.



EDIT: As if the post wasn't long enough, right? Well, in case you're wondering how practical the "bomb-making" information was:


As you've probably already read in the chapter dealing with firebombs, it is possible to make a powerful high explosive based on any ammonium nitrate fertilizer. According to some sources, all that is necessary to make such explosives is wrapping a fistful of fertilizer in a large fuel-soaked cloth. Igniting the cloth would then result in a powerful explosion.

[vulture]

It's obvious that this information (if it even deserves such a title) has been typed up by lawyers or legal assistants, looking at the tons of footnotes and the language used.

It also shows they don't have the slightest fucking clue about explosives (and this is an FBI text!) because they quote the Anarchists Cookbook and the like as reliable sources of information which go into extensive detail. :rolleyes:

Ofcourse, this is either a leaked or a public text, so the good sources (like us :eek: ) might be omitted on purpose...

[Kid Orgo]

I've been thinking about this, although I still have been too tied up with Orgo and Calc to read the entire memo. I think the Forum doesn't appear in the memo and the ACB does on basis of proliferation. Everyone, no matter how dumb, can try the shit in the ACB, and alarm voters. The information here requires persistent searching, concious thought, and a modicum of scientific intelligence. Anyone that would do something terrible based on the information here would probably have been able to figure it out eventually all by themselves, but merely had the help of a group of similarly interested persons in furthering that process. As long as we keep the k3wls out, we're low-profile.

On further reflection:

With respect to the Feinstein Statute, I think our vulnerability is limited. Not because of the whole "Dream" or SWIM semantic games (a jury would never buy that), but more because the information here is posted without a stated goal. This isn't explosives information distributed for a cause (such as anarchy, neo-fascism, or religious extremism) it's a board dedicated to the free distribution of knowledge. Individual members have political leanings, which could be used to color a jury's perception of the board's purpose (oh, look, they're a bunch of fascists, anarchists, radicals) but I don't think that'd really work. We fall all over the political spectrum.

The real issue here is that this is one step towards a police state. More laws like this, and we could be a little bit more vulnerable, but I'm confident that bridge will be crossed, with proper precautions.

[Nihilist]

I wouldn't be so sure about that. If the (insert 3 letter agency) wanted to get rid of this board, all they would have to do is take some members post(especially some of the nazi and racism related stuff) and say this is a quote from the rogue science website, without specifying that it was simply one member, and not the collective opinion of the board or mega. If they chose the right quote it could paint this site in a VERY bad light(judging by current popular opinion, not saying I am supporting either side of the racism issue). However, since we are so low profile, they probably think it's not really worth it, since "rogue science" isn't quite such a good buzzword as "The Anarchists cookbook". Also, they might think that some of the members here would retaliate violently to government removal of this site, and even if nobody would, it would certainly increase tensions between people like us, and Them.

[peterthesmart]

If someone were to attempt to shut down this board, couldn't someone simply move the board to a different server in another country? I don't know what the internetional laws are exactly but I know several people have used this tecnique and it seems to work.

[Kid Orgo]

Nihilist: Although I think a violent reaction to the shutdown of such a board as ours is possible, I think you err in your belief that this would STOP any of these agencies from doing so. If they believed board members would strike back like that, they'd be on it in heartbeat. Not only would they get another straw man to beat at, but they'd have an easy justification of their unconstitutional decision to the American sheeple. "See, I told you they were dangerous. Aren't you glad we ignored that pesky ol' Bill of Rights?"

As a tangent to the whole racism thing, something like the opposite seems true. There are a LOT of white-supremacist websites out there with all kinds of weapons information that the gov't doesn't touch. One of the links I posted brings that up. A Southern Aryan Nations member wouldn't put fear into the Three Letter Agencies. A site based on free exchange of information, or, even worse, one that suggests that perhaps the gov't doesn't give a fuck about us anymore... THERE'S a terrorist threat.

Peterthesmart: I believe there are safeguards (WMI?) in place if the board does get taken down. No matter what they do, the information is out there, and it will be spread.

[tmp]

In Baltimore, Maryland, an avowed white-supremacist was arrested on various
misdemeanor charges related to the storing of gunpowder. I do not agree
with this peron's political views on race relations. However, this person's bail
was initally set at $2 MILLION and on review the bail was denied. Can anyone
deny that being held without bail on non-violent misdemeanor charges is not
only unconstitutional but politically motivated as well ? Also, many states now
allow warrantless searches and no-knock dynamic entry raids even for trivial
violations of the law. The politically correct politicians use the police to do their
dirtywork at the expense of our BILL OF RIGHTS. The terrorist attack on 9/11 has
enabled these idiots to usurp civil liberties with THE PATRIOT ACT OF 2001.
I worry about the frightening effect this could have on the FORUM.

[wrench352]

I noticed almost every source referenced was a crap book.You have to wonder how far Them are willing to take this.I mean even they are willing to admit they'd have to censor science books,encyclopedias,etc
on another note everyone able should try and stick it to old Feinstein,where it counts.The voting booth.Start with those assault weapons ban bills shes workin on.And for god sake just get her out of office.

[CommonScientist]

I thought everything we post on here was in a theoretical perspective? Everything I post is , but it is though. Havnt we provided this site to go over theoretical ways of properly doing something? I think it is ridiculus to say that "the ACB is a reliable source of information which goes into extensive detail." Only a kewl would say that. Damn media, they have screwed us again.

[MightyQuinn®]

So far as I can tell, in my local area I am quite capable of making anything on this site. I have done some research and spoken with a few people regarding making caps, explosives and pyrotechnics (LEO and people in the business). I have come to the determination that if I am on private property, mixing/concocting/constructing devices ‘on-site’ and detonating/lighting/deflagrating them ‘on-site’ then I am well within the laws. I am more likely to be cited for violating a noise ordinance than anything else.

Where the BATF and others get their knickers in a bunch is when I store/transport/sell or distribute in any fashion said devices. Were I to have an approved magazine installed, complied with local ordinances and be inspected by the BATF then I could store bulk chemicals for production.

Take the exploding targets as an example. If you open it and smell it there is no mistaking that it’s ANFO and when you mix it as per directions and hit it with a bullet, it explodes. For all intents and purposes, it’s a binary explosive……as advertised. My local (200y) gun club used to use these on a regular basis. LEO used the range extensively and loved those targets. The neighbor of the range complained about the noise level of the targets and this prompted the normally ‘shooting’ LEO to stop their own fun. It was determined that the club had all permits covering firearm noise but was otherwise prohibited from conducting large explosions.

Anyway….back to the point. Those LEO’s KNEW we were mixing explosives, and also knew that we could make them ourselves with items commonly available. Where I live, I can make what I want if I follow a couple of basic procedures. That being said, I can also own DD’s, NFA items and other crazy shit where I live. It’s nice to be able to legally own a full auto MAC10 with a 12” can on it.