Powerful oxidiziers and reducing agents

[Ezikiel]

Has anyone tried to work with Oxidizers like H2SO5, N2O5, CrO3, CrO2, Chromyl Chloride, Peroxychromates, KO2 etc.
And reducing agents like ... N2S4, CS2, Pot. Polysulfide, AlH3, Ni(CO)4, and Cr(CO)6 etc.
If anyone has any experiences reguarding their prep and/or oxidizing/reducing capabilities ... I would really appreciate some feedback.

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"Chance favours the prepared mind"

[Lagen]

I have been experimenting for some time with CrO3, CrO2Cl2 and related stuff...
Made a few posts on it in \misc\CrO3.

[Mr Cool]

N2S4 - that's a primary, isn't it?
Well there's a thread on how to make metal peroxides, and I think CrO3 has been covered, and H2SO5 has been mentioned but not much detailed information came up IIRC.
Isn't there a phosphorous sesquisulphide? I bet that could be fun, but it's possible that I've gone mad and made it up, I can't remember.

[Ezikiel]

Thanx .. I'll check those posts out and I have heard of Phosphorus sesquisulfite (I just can't remember where). Anyways do they have any special oxidizing or reducing properties that they can't be treated as potentially high explosive ?


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"Chance favours the prepared mind"

[Berserker]

Phosphorus sesquisulfide is used in strike-anywhere matches. Nitrogen sulfide is a dense, oily liquid that is comparable to NI₃ in instability. See the thread somewhere in Low Explosives on "yellow powder" or "fulminating powder" for some interesting info on the reaction of KNO₃ with potassium polysulfide.

[FadeToBlackened]

Ive always read of N2S4 to be reddish brown crystals..

[cutefix]

I remember,think I tried a few times to use P2O5 to make N2O5 from nitric acid.and it was a better nitrating agent than nitric acid.Although the reactions require intensive cooling because of much exotherm….In my first experiment.I broke one reaction vessel due to this,and splashed the corrosive mixture which corroded some parts of the floor….and the bench .I think it happened because of overconfidence,thinking it was similar to using normal fuming nitric acid...

[Berserker]

I think N₂S₄ is a liquid, and N₄S₄ is the red solid you're talking of.

[the freshmaker]

Isn't Potassium Persulfate also a oxidiser? Does anyone know how powerfull an oxidant this is? I can easily buy this chemical in my pharmacy.

[Ezikiel]

What's the persulfate used for in the pharmacy ?
I know that peroxysulfuric acid is formed when H2SO4 (conc.) is mixed with H2O2.

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"Chance favours the prepared mind"

[Ezikiel]

A mixture of 2 parts N2O4 with 1 part N2S4 should make a very powerful explosive.
and also with CS2.


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"Chance favours the prepared mind"

[Disturbed]

hey all.. on the subject of peroxysulfuric acid, have any of you had any success making this? I tried once, worked out the correct ratios for my concentrations of acid and H2O2.. it heated up a lot, and did about nothing. The only notable thing is that when i dumped it out on the road in disgust, I noticed a day later that there were lots of small white crystals left on the asphalt. What those might be, I have no idea!


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kein mitleid fur die mehrheit

[the freshmaker]

Ezikiel; it's actually not a real pharmacy, but I think it is called a Material Shop.
I don't know what is is being used for, but I can check it on the label next time I see it. It think I'll buy some tomorrow and check out if it can be used as an oxidant.

[Berserker]

Ezi: I assume for the same thing you'd want to use potassium permanganate for... disinfectant, antisceptic and fungicide. I also know potassium perborate is a common ingedient in crystalline bleach.

[the freshmaker]

Today I went to the Material Shop- and I'm sorry it wasn't potassium persulfate as I said but potassium perborate. The perborate had also a warning label saying; "Oxidiser"
Can This be used to something- how powerfull is this oxidant?

[Mr Cool]

I think perborates are oxidising like chlorites etc - they don't support combustion very well, but they do "oxidise" things, in other words they lose electrons (or is it gain? I can never remember!) in reactions. Not sure though..

[kingspaz]

i think its lose electrons because the other meaning of oxidise is addition of oxygen. so if you have 2Ca + O2 ----> 2CaO so the Ca has lost electrons to the O. well thats what i think. probably wrong knowing my luck.

[Mr Cool]

Ca 2+ + O 2- = CaO, therefore the calcium ion is being oxidised and is gaining two electrons...

[This message has been edited by Mr Cool (edited August 30, 2001).]

[kingspaz]

whoops...

[Ezikiel]

Guys .... Leo the lion says Ger (LEO-GER)
Loss of e- is oxidation and Gain of e- is reduction.
Or try OIL RIG (oxidation is loss of e- and redution is gain of e-)
and Pot. perborate Oxidizing proberties SUCK.
Its a mild disinfectant.

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"Chance favours the prepared mind"

[PHILOU Zrealone]

N4S4 is a solid red compound sensitive to shock, friction and flame with a VOD of about 5200m/s....not a liquid.Made via reaction between SCl2 and NH3!
Nothing to do with Fulminating powder(KNO3/K2CO3/S mix).

You make me http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/smile.gif "N4S4 is a yellow liquid while N4S4 is a red solid"....Isn't white, white? huhuhu


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"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"

[mark]

Anyone know if "oxacilic acid" is usefull for anything other than bleaching furniture?

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All 10 fingers present.

[tvs17]

Does this question belong in this thread really?
I've had a look in the Merck index for the "oxacilic acid" you describe. But it was not listed. Don't you mean OXALIC acid, (COOH)2? This is also used for bleaching things I thought.
Well, you could make oxalates from metals like lead or silver from it. They posses energetic properties. Not very strong though, but nice to try anyway.

[CodeMason]

Yeah, heavy metal salts of oxalic acid are very weak but explosive nonetheless. A large enough clump would probably initiate your more sensitive secondaries. However, wood bleaching oxalic acid is 3% solution, I doubt you could make any salts with that!

MANY WOOD BLEACHING KITS (the two solution kind) CONTAIN 30% H₂O₂.

[tvs17]

Well, you could probably use the 3% (COOH)2 solution since Pb and Ag oxalate are only very slitely soluble in H2O. And you'll have to use quite large quantities of the stuff to obtain some of the oxalate. So better evaporate some water before using it.

[tvs17]

But another thing, I already asked it in the Misc. forum. Does anyone know if pernitric acid(HO-O-NO2) can be synthesized in the lab and which properties it should have. I only found that this chemical is formed high in the atmosphere by reactions with all kinds of oxygen radicals.

[CodeMason]

I know: HO₂ (hydroperoxyl radical) + NO₂ (nitrogen dioxide) -> HO₂NO₂ (pernitric acid)
NO₂ is produced as a byproduct of some important organic reactions, so salvaging it would kill two birds with one stone. http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/wink.gif The hydroperoxyl radical is a bit more tricky, I think it could be made by hydrogen peroxide and UV light perhaps?

Or maybe a much simpler reaction of hydrogen peroxide on nitric acid (H₂O₂ + HONO₂ -> HO₂NO₂ + H₂O) would work, although I doubt it, and then there's still the problem about getting the water out at the end (distilling things such as pernitric is asking for trouble)

[tvs17]

Yes! One of the reactions of the formation of HO2NO2 is via the HO2 radical you name. There are some other radicals that also react with the NO2 to form HO2NO2 but these are even more unstable than the HO2.
But I can't find any info on these compounds on practical level(only environnmental shit). So if someone has a reference or something?
That is the problem, this is reaction with H2O2 and some others is so extremely risky.. And I'm not going to try things which are only speculative and with NO background info at all.

[the freshmaker]

I've heard this "thermite" mix of CuO and Al should have a quite fast burnrate? How fast is it really- It is not like these "dragon eggs" mixes of Pb or Wi-oxides, are they? They explodes without any confinement even in very small portions!

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good boy with bad ideas

[Mr Cool]

Cu is lower on the reactivity scale than Pb, so CuO should be better than PbO. But those "Dragon's Eggs" use Mg or MgAl, or even zirconium, so with normal Al it would be slower.
But CuO/Al is fast burning - it gets about as fast as BP; it's drawback is that it produces no permanent gas.