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pornopete
November 29th, 2003, 05:26 AM
Hey just wondering if anyone out there is a fan of micheal moore, his books Stupid white men or his films roger and me or bowling for columbine. Nothing to do with chemistry but i think he is a fucken legend.

zeocrash
November 29th, 2003, 08:21 AM
don't get me started on michael moore. that 's one man who i'd like to take a baseball bat to. but hey if you like him, that's your opinion

Anthony
November 29th, 2003, 01:17 PM
He's a nob.

The only decent point he's ever raised is that Canada has roughly equal private gun ownership per capita, but much lower gun crime.

How the hell "bowling for columbine" gained film status, I have no idea. It's just a low quality documentary. He also takes things out of context to prove his points.

Maybe if he had some actual balls and journalistic talent he'd have written a book called "Stupid Niggers".

knowledgehungry
November 29th, 2003, 04:22 PM
Stupid Niggers hahahhah:D . I'd but that book for sure! Maybe I'll read Stupid white men and make a spoof if I Have time(which I Dont)

megalomania
November 29th, 2003, 06:24 PM
I saw his movie Bowling for Columbine last month on pay per view and boy was it biased and one sided. He paints a pretty vivid picture to get his point accross, but for those of us who know better he blatently overinflates the issues. Roger and Me was quite good though, even though it is not the duty of any corporation to keep a town afloat. Businesses exist to make money, not to employ people.

GibboNet
November 29th, 2003, 10:00 PM
Download the movies from whatever p2p client you use, they are all over the place.

I saw a documentary of his a while back, though I forget what it was. he's done more than the two mentioned hasn't he ? Still, it was pretty interesting at the time. I'm still trying to work aout what it was about.

Though one sided etc, it would at least be good footage of the columbine 'tradgedy', I'm sure lots of people here would be interested in that.

IDTB
November 29th, 2003, 11:33 PM
I can say I'm a ''fan'' of Michael Moore's, but I'm definitely fond of his work. 'Bowling for Columbine' doesn't have any special footage of the Columbine shooting that wasn't already popular. It really wasn't directly related to Columbine, though some parts take a focus to it.

I've just recently finished reading "No Easy Answers: The Truth Behind Death at Columbine" by Brooks Brown. See, Brooks(the auther/Columbine student) isn't a writer. He shows it well within this book. If anyone looks at this book with intentions of purchasing... DON'T. Some information is relevent, but for the most part it's full of stuff no one really cares about... like Brooks Brown.

Sorry if that last paragraph/rant was off-topic.

darkdontay
November 30th, 2003, 01:43 AM
I found both moives Mediocore at best. It was way to biased and seemed more like a moives to make him money and waste our time.. not to mention try and get him self back into the media again then any sort of real attempt to be true to the issues. As allways my views are just mine and if you not agree with them your free choice. [AKA Flaming is lame.]

Bitter2
November 30th, 2003, 04:08 PM
Twats like Michael Moore were the reason I spent two months at her majesty's pleasure.

photonic
November 30th, 2003, 06:59 PM
Michael Moore drives me insane. I'd also like to know where he gets his statistics. After watching "Bowling for Columbine", I searched for hours trying to find crime statistics to compare the US with other countries but I was unable.
Also, Bitter2, are you the former mod bitter? If this questions is taboo, delete this post, but did something happen between you and the "authorities?"

Bitter2
December 1st, 2003, 10:31 AM
I haven't had my powers restored yet, but yes, I am he. Something did happen between me and the authorities, which I will hopefully tell you about at the end of December.

nbk2000
December 2nd, 2003, 02:18 PM
No way is that going to happen...

me234
December 3rd, 2003, 08:33 AM
So that's his name, you know he really speaks to me man. NOT A FUCKING CHANCE, he is a close-minded idiot, did you see when he gets the gun from the bank, pointing it around in public, a criminal offense where I live, pointing it at people, with his FINGER ON THE DAMNED TRIGGER, that's like rule no.2, your finger doesn't touch the trigger unless you're about to shoot, what an unedumacated, self-important, naive, ignorant, self-RIGHTEOUS, TWAT. And Oprah just swallowing every word he tells her, can nobody make their minds up for themselves anymore? It's just like the texas thing, people aren't questing authority like they're supposed to be, how else do governments improve things is everyone lies on their backs and take up the ass all cmplacent like? QUESTION THE FUCKING GOVERNMENT, YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO. son of a bitch, now I'm more pissed off than before. Hey Photonic I bet you that he got his stats for about a hundred or so people that he chose for the specifically for the purpose purpose, Former NRA, shit you'd think he knew better, man I hope he reads this and gets pissed off. If this is post-whoring then I should get HED, but I don't care, I want people to read this, people should know better.

pornopete
December 3rd, 2003, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by me234
did you see when he gets the gun from the bank, pointing it around in public, a criminal offense where I live, pointing it at people, with his FINGER ON THE DAMNED TRIGGER, that's like rule no.2, your finger doesn't touch the trigger unless you're about to shoot, what an unedumacated, self-important, naive, ignorant, self-RIGHTEOUS, TWAT.

Dude, hes making a blatent mockery of U.S gun laws. The whole thing about getting a gun from a bank is showing how light U.S gun laws really are, and maybe him pointing the gun in the street with his finger on the trigger is showing what peoples attitudes towards guns are in the U.S and as for uneducated you cant even spell the fucken word.

Jacks Complete
December 3rd, 2003, 05:04 PM
Pornopete,

No, he isn't mocking, he is fabricating lies!

If Moore really got that gun from that bank (which is possible) then he had to go to a gun dealer to collect it, 14 days later, then bring it back to the bank, and then go into the bank, roll film, then stage the scene as he came back out.

It is a real shame that some-one with concealed carry, or a cop, didn't drop him on the spot. :mad:

Watch the scene where Charlton Heston gives the "speech of evil" carefully, and you will see that, after setting the scene, it cuts to the crowd. Then, it cuts back to Heston, wearing totally different clothes, 3000 miles and 7 months away! Most people miss that, as was Moore's intention.

Note that it isn't even a missile factory, but one for putting space rockets into space.

There's lots more on line. Moore lies... (http://www.google.com/search?q=moore+columbine+lies&sourceid=mozilla-search&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8)

Oh, the first link? That goes to Moore's "refutation" of the claims. Read them carefully, as he uses the same tricks on that page as in the movie.

For example, where he derides people for saying the space rockets aren't military, cos they have "US AIRFORCE" written on them. Well, no shit. They aren't for the tooth fairy, are they? BUT they are NOT missiles, as he claims!

Anyway, enough ranting.

Arkangel
December 3rd, 2003, 06:10 PM
I think MM does talk some shit, but overall he is bang on.

I'm at the opposite end of the spectrum to most of the views here. I've read a few of his books, including the last one, and I went to see him in London on his launch tour.

He mentioned the fact that people had claimed the bank scene was fake, that he wouldn't have been allowed to do it. But the bank IS a licensed gun dealer, and can't you walk into a dealer and walk out with a gun in the US - or basically what he did anyway?

Bowling for columbine was biased? Of course it was. Gun crime in the US is way out of proportion, and the point he's making is less about the fact that there are so many guns, but that the society is so fucked it results in so many deaths.

In Switzerland, EVERY man has to have a gun at home, my mate's got a Heckler Koch G3 on top of his kitchen cupboard, but how much gun crime is there there? Er....fuck all.

He is making comments about society, and everyone here is getting pissy because you're all in the "Gun Lobby", same as I was in the UK when I had my pistols taken away after Dunblane. Don't let that blind you to the sense he talks

Jacks Complete
December 3rd, 2003, 09:00 PM
It isn't what he says, it is the way he says it.

And no, there is a wait of (iirc) 7 days as a cooling of period under the federal Brady Act, on the purchase of a handgun.

Bitter2
December 4th, 2003, 11:31 AM
Originally posted by nbk2000
No way is that going to happen...

What makes you say that ? I don't think there's too much to worry about.

Jacks Complete
December 4th, 2003, 01:07 PM
Bitter2,
I seriously hope it isn't anything related to the forum.

If the (whoever) decided to do a sweep for forum members, how would we know? I suspect they would coordinate it globally, if they were really pissed.

Copied from the Daily Mirror:

Badat now faces a charge that he "unlawfully and maliciously conspired with Richard Reid and others unknown to cause by an explosive device an explosion likely to endanger life or cause serious injury to property in the United Kingdom or elsewhere."

Reid, a former burglar from Brixton in south London, was overpowered by crew and passengers when he tried to ignite the explosives on board an American Airlines flight from Paris to Miami in December, 2001. The Islamic convert claimed he was a soldier involved in a religious war with the United States.

Badat's arrest was the most high-profile in a series of swoops by anti-terror police across central and southern England in the last week. More than 20 people have been arrested.

One of those, North African Noureddinne Mouleff, 36, was remanded in custody on Wednesday, charged under section 57 of the Terrorism Act 2000 which deals with suspects found with "an article in circumstances which give rise to a reasonable suspicion that its possession is for a purpose connected with the commission, preparation or instigation of an act of terrorism".

Police sources have said the "article" found was not explosives but have not given further details.

They took 20 guys off the streets, out of thier homes, etc. on suspicion, and no-one knows anything about the other 18!

The reason I post this, is take a look at the charges:

suspects found with "an article in circumstances which give rise to a reasonable suspicion that its possession is for a purpose connected with the commission, preparation or instigation of an act of terrorism".

he "unlawfully and maliciously conspired with Richard Reid and others unknown to cause by an explosive device an explosion likely to endanger life or cause serious injury to property in the United Kingdom or elsewhere."

How horrifically woolly. You could arrest almost anyone on those charges, and keep them locked up for a week, without a phone call or a lawyer!

Just visiting this forum would be enough, if you entered into a conversation via the board!

And then you get gits like Mike Moore trying hard to get our few remaining rights broken so once they are, he can help drive the wedge in as far as he likes. And the worst thing is, he will feel happy that he did it, and sleep well at night, because the condescending bastards in power think they know what is best for everyone!

Bitter2
December 4th, 2003, 03:56 PM
Like "they" don't already know who we all are ?

Arkangel
December 4th, 2003, 04:16 PM
there is a wait of (iirc) 7 days as a cooling of period under the federal Brady Act, on the purchase of a handgun
Jack's complete, he was given a rifle. Do you still have to wait 7 days for one of those?

And it IS what he says that pisses a lot of people off, largely because they are pretty contentious issues for the people he's talking about. For me, a lot of it is obvious, but then why the hell SHOULD he suggest that we recycle more, not drive SUV's everywhere and all the rest of his eco/socio babble?

Anyone interested in a discussion based around his "7 questions for George Bush" at the begiining of his latest book?

(And Bitter, pleased to see you around! Are you anywhere PGP and up for a chat?)

tmp
December 4th, 2003, 11:34 PM
Michael Moore is an asshole. He got an Academy Award for the "Best Documentary".
It should have been for "Best Propaganda" because Hollywood's elitist left love any
fabrication that promotes their agenda. Fuck him and Hollywood !

Bitter2
December 5th, 2003, 10:43 AM
Sorry, never did post my PGP key and it's lost for good now. Not to worry, though. I would be happy to have a chat if you want. You should know my email address through the "other" forum, if not, ask one of the UK moderators for it.

tmp
December 6th, 2003, 02:38 AM
To my fellow FORUM members, you may find this link about "Bowling For Columbine"
useful. The author discusses the slick editing and deception techniques used in this
propaganda film. I read on the net somewhere that some video stores are putting
stickers with this link on the inside of the DVD jacket of the movie.

http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html

Michael Moore is a hypocrite millionaire who insults us in his book "Stupid White Men".
He takes pleasure in deriding the middle class who are the majority in the USA.
So he has 7 questions he wants to ask President Bush. I have 1 for Mr. Moore.

"Traitor, by which method do you want to be executed ?"

Arkangel
December 6th, 2003, 10:30 AM
Ever heard the phrase "don't shoot the messenger boy". Just because you disagree with him, and he's got a public platform, that makes him a traitor? Surely he's free to say what the fuck he wants in the US - the home of freedom! (Don't make me laugh:p)

I think there are far worse traitors than MM in the US, and most of them you'll find hanging round the whitehouse. But then that's a whole other thread isn't it!

And if you want to talk about "propoganda" why don't you mention the daily torrent of it on fox news and all the rest?

tmp
December 6th, 2003, 02:35 PM
Arkangel, Michael Moore doesn't live in the same world as most of us do. He is truly
an elitist by any standard. I AM part of the "Gun Lobby" as you call me. I don't have
the luxury of living in a community or building with security guards who can protect
me from society's bad guys. Michael Moore is not a messenger. He is a
propagandist who acts against the interestsof those who live outside his sheltered
world. I view him and his elitist friends as traitors. You stated that your handguns
were taken away as a resullt of the Dunblane massacre.
An honest question:
Do you feel any safer ? I wouldn't !

pornopete
December 6th, 2003, 04:25 PM
His films are not propaganda they are an attack against the propaganda produced by the U.S government. Stop protecting your stupid president and your puppet society.

IDTB
December 6th, 2003, 06:14 PM
I must agree with pornopete. ;)
I have bowling for columbine somewhere on disc. Due to the debate does anyone want to view it?
(nice name by the way.)

chokingvictim78
December 6th, 2003, 07:28 PM
Micheal Moore is a fuckass. I wouldn't hate him so much if it weren't for the heavy editing of the Heston speeches, and comparing statistics that are years apart just to make it look like America has a high gun crime rate. I don't care what your view is, as long as you can back it up without fabricating facts.

kurama guineu
December 7th, 2003, 11:00 AM
After seeing that a link to show Michael Moore is a liar has been posted before, well.... i thought that giving Mr. Moore the chance to reply would be fine. At least the debate will be more fair, this is a link to a MM letter responding to the accusations he has received for misrepresenting facts and lying in the movie/documentarie Bowling for Columbine. Enjoy the reading.


http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/wackoattacko/

Bitter2
December 7th, 2003, 02:43 PM
"So, a whole host of gun lobby groups and individual gun nuts have put up websites where the smears on me range from the pre-adolescent (I'm a "crapweasel," and a "fat fucking piece of shit")."

I wonder if MM considers labelling anyone who disagrees with him as a "gun nut" and a "wacko" to be pre-adolecent smearing ? I guess not.

me234
December 18th, 2003, 12:45 AM
Pornopete, one thing man, I meant to spell it that way, haven't you ever heard any one say unedumacated, ( un-ed-u-ma-cated), as in "I'm the smart one, I've bin edumacated"
It's sarcasm. However, I do agree with you that peoples attitudes towards firearms are sadly just like that, good point.

TJTay89
December 18th, 2003, 06:40 PM
Moore is a dumbass, and I find it to be total bullshit that "bowling for columbine" is considered a Documentry. I mean he has the balls to edit "Moses" speach to make it look like Charlas Heston is an uncaring asswhole.The way Moore just pulled numbers out of his ass is another thing that pisses me off.

As for the "cooling period" for rifles, I am pretty sure there is no cooling period for rifles, although there is a 7-14 day cooling period for handguns. It takes about thirty minutes of paper work, and a drivers lisense to get your hands on a rifle. Atleast aslong as you do not have a felony.

KAROMESIS
December 24th, 2003, 01:55 PM
AHHH .....michael 2 dinners moore,the very benchmark of journalistic integrity and fucking brilliance in reporting the issues. If you believe that first statement then you should go see the nice men in the white coats and they will make it all better for you.;) I do believe his statistics are gotten from somewhere deep in the bowels of his most gigantic ass,mainly due to the fact that I have searched in vain to uncover any basis for his statistics,which as megalomania said are "biased and one sided".end point I think the guy is a liberals wet dream and he sure as hell reports like one.

12Gauge
December 26th, 2003, 12:26 AM
The scene with Moore walking out of the bank with a gun WAS staged. The operators of that bank have expressed extreme displeasure with the manner in which they were depicted in Mr. Moore's "documentary". The film attempts to promote Mr.Moore's (who is a self proclaimed Marxist, BTW) ideals by deliberately distorting the actual facts of situations shown. Check out www.moorelies.com for details on many other staged and/or fabricated bs he came up with.
America does have a (comparitively) high rate of crimes committed with firearms- however to state the reason for this is the availability of firearms is ludicrous (If you want to commit a crime or murder someone, you will find a weapon). Here in Canada, knives are used in over 30% of murders-blunt objects are the #2 most used weapons in murders, with guns coming in a distant third. We have a billion dollar gun registry, but no controls on steak knives, butcher knives, baseball bats or 2x4's. You will have a very hard time trying to convince me that "gun control" is about controlling crime or reducing access to weapons to those bent on criminal activities. Guess what criminals do- they break the law. Shocking, isn't it? If criminals break the law (like say murdering someone), why do you think that making a law about something is going to stop those, who by definition, break laws? You have been fed a liberal load of bullshit and ate it as though it was caviar...... shake the shit outta your head and seek the truth- for it truly IS out there.
The true origin of "gun control" is rooted in racism - ie: whites not wanting blacks to own firearms- and has morphed into a scheme to allow greater gov't control over all of us. Hitler's Nazi's really liked gun control, too- it sure made the task of eliminating Jews much easier since they were unable to fight back.
Think about this for a minute-

If we accept that firearms might get into the hands of maniacal nutjob and that we should ban guns completely to prevent this (alhough that is impossible-for the same reasons that gun control doesn't work), and this makes sense and is reasonable, why am I considered paranoid for wanting a gun to prevent that (possible) madman from shooting up my friends, family or even people I don't know?

stickfigure
January 3rd, 2004, 07:21 AM
Con Control sin't about racism. It's about the subjation of classes. Back in the day Blacks occupied the lowest class so to be kept there gun-control towards them was instituted. Jews in Nazi Germany were forced from the upper and middle classes to the lowest class, and weapons were taken away so they couldn't fight back. Communism is supposed to be a classless society so gun control keeps the people in line when Red Army moves in.

The Gun Control Movement is being instituted by those who seek to seperate the classes in America. The Rich who by the way keep getting richer seek to keep the poor who keep getting poorer on the lower tiers of society. But in America there is supposed to be like 600 Million guns right? Actually it's about 1.2 Billion with the Governament holding an equal share, split 50/50. You all seem to notice that the new gun laws only want Police and the Military to have the guns right? Well those in power "the rich" seek to use the Government as there tool to disarm the poor and enslave them. The enslavement will be a willing enslavement, taught through television and marketing to be in the best interest of the poor. The poor will be given everything, government healthcare, welfare, uniforms, houseing projects, sounds familiar right?

MM makes some good points about society but he seems to get lost in the fact that he's selling the same thing he's trying to warn people about. He's preying off of people's fears just like everyones else, he's just pretends that he cares.

Pornopete: Liberalism will still make you a slave. Your tiny island may seem isolated from the world for now, but your leftist paradise will just attract more of the filth that is trying to infest our country. BTW when the Big One hits California and it slids in the Pacific and starts it's continental drift towards you, just remember it'll be Karma...

tmp
January 4th, 2004, 01:13 AM
Stickfigure, gun control's original American roots are racist. I recently saw some
old statutes, mainly from the South, that prohibited Negroes from owning guns.
The oldest I found was from Virginia, passed in 1640. This was only the beginning.
The gun-haters will use any excuse to ban and/or confiscate guns from those who
they look on as needing to be controlled by an elite class. Guns in the hands of
persons regarded as of a lower class scares the hell out of the elitists. As recently
as 1994(maybe earlier, correct me if I'm wrong), some big city mayors and at least
1 state wanted to ban gun ownership for anybody living in public housing.
Just another example of the elitists wanting to disarm a "lower class". Could it be
that the elitists fear that some day the so-called "lower classes" will recognize them
for what they are and remove them from power ?

Jacks Complete
January 4th, 2004, 01:14 PM
tmp,

you are correct, nearly. It was the HUD (Houseing and Urban Development) department, which forced all new tennants in HUD owned housing to agree to random searches for guns as a condition of moving in, and a ban on ownership of firearms if you lived in HUD houseing.

Of course, only poor people live in the HUD ghettos and due to the propaganda about how bad guns were in the hands of criminals, they managed to push it through. None of the poor could afford to mount a legal challenge. I believe it was Cumo in charge at the time.

I don't know what the situation is like now.