I want my ATROPINE

[grandyOse]

I have tried everyway I can think of, short of breaking and entering, to obtain atropine, or even better atropine autoinjectors. I'm still a boy scout, I guess, because I live by the motto "be prepared". There has to be a ton of these floating around the military surplus community, but how to find them?

Yeah, I know; extracting from plant sources is a lot of fun, but the chances of obtaining a suitable yield of injectable quality alkoloid is practically nill.

Any suggestions?

[Tuatara]

Have you seen this? Atropine synthesis (http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/motm/atropine/synthesis.htm)

Not exactly a simple process, but it's a start;)

[Nihilist]

I believe you can actually purchase Atropine injectors, in some of those "terrorist emergency" kits.

[MrSamosa]

Wouldn't plant sources be the cheapest way to get Atropine, though (that is, unless you live far away from where they grow)?? For even severe exposures, typically only 3 atropine injections are required...surely the amount required for 3 injectors could be obtained from plants.

[Tuatara]

A quick search of the Hive reveals Belladona (Deadly Nightshade) as the principal plant source, but there is a problem with contamination by other toxic alkaloids, which are apparently damn near impossible to selectively remove.

[grandyOse]

Tuatara, The principal toxic substance to which you refer is hyoscine or scopolamine. It is no more toxic than atropine. The effects are almost identical, except that atropine is a slight CNS stimulant, where scopolamine is a mild CNS depressant and slightly more psychoactive. They both have the drying and antimuscaric (sp) and anticholorigenic (sp) effects which are the desired properties of a nerve gas antidote. So, I don't see a problem with not being able to remove all the scopolamine.

Atropa Beledonna is the most often used plant source in Europe, but Jimsonweed (Datura Stramonium) thrives in the usA. Brugmansia is the plant of choice in South America. I have read several extraction techniques. The best one, IMHO, calls for ammonium carbonate, which I cannot find and have only been able to synthesise in minute quantities. I prefer to us HCl and NaOH as extraction media since any contamination produced by the reactants would be NaCl which is quite injectable. I have not read of anyone else using that method. It won't stop me from trying however, once I have the other materials. I've considered DMSO are a carrier, as opposed to a needle. The advantages are obvious, the the effectiveness is still a question mark.

I would prefer to buy it on the black market, that's why I started this post. However, if we want to turn it into an acid/base extraction thread, I'll be happy to be a part of it, and I'm sure I'd learn something.

There have been some interesting auctions on ebay lately. One old medical kit contained atropine tablets. Another kit had adrenaline/seconal tablets and all kinds of pills. It closed pretty high. Not knowing how this stuff has been stored, I would be skeptical about ingestion. It seems to be quite a fad to collect old narcotics. I tried an online vet supply, but they wanted a prescription. I've also checked out overseas online pharmacies and they list the contents on the customs declaration. Every EMT handles this stuff and it's not as closely guarded as morphine, so you would think there would be some on the market, if one could only find it.

[simply RED]

I've seen Datyra Stramonium growing near the roads of the wholesome countryside of eastern Bulgaria. I have a small ranch there. Its alwasy been thrilly how our science and nature mix...

[akinrog]

IIRC, atropine tablets are used in agricultural (crop) dusting activities, since many of the pesticides, insecticides, etc. are organophosphate based compounds which are similar to nerve agents in effect. That is, they cause cholinesterase diminishing effects.

Many of the entomology books, dealing with the crops pests mention about keeping the atropine tablets handy while dusting the crops, in case of myosis, hard breathing, in short any signs of the organophosphate poisioning.

You can consult agricultural pesticide/ herbicide, etc. selling stores about the atropine tablets.

Hope this helps.

[Anath]

I've seen atropine tablet kits in the trucks of a Pest Control company before, they were spraying for termites with chlorpyrifos as I recall.. maybe you could try ringing them up and finding out where they get them from, then misrepresent yourself to one of there suppliers..

Anywhere that sells bulk pesticides should also have an idea of where to get them.

[snuk5]

Hi Tuatara

“Not exactly a simple process, but it's a start”

Well it is actually not a difficult process at all and I have still some tropinone in a 50 ml round bottom flask, in my freezer (looking a bit brownish now after a few years!) but it was sort of white after the second vacuum sublimation, at the time.

It’s actually a very elegant procedure going at dilute and buffered aqueous conditions.

After some 6 hours (or was it more) render the solution basic and extract with methylene chloride. My yield was about 62%

The bloody hell you have to go through to get the precursors is another thing altogether. If you are not a serious organic chemist with some bucks and time to spare, don’t go there!

[Voyager]

"I have tried everyway I can think of, short of breaking and entering, to obtain atropine, or even better atropine autoinjectors."


What you really want is Meridian Medical Technologies AtroPen:

http://www.meridianmeds.com/civdef.html
AtroPen® NSN 6505-00-926-9083*
Delivers: 2 mg atropine sulfate equivalent in 0.7 mL

Let's assume for the moment that you can't get what you really want. <Insert Rolling Stones music here>

You can buy atropine sulfate in other forms from people like this:
http://www.destinationrx.com/prescriptions/refine.asp?BrandName=Atropine+Sulfate
http://www.my-canadian-pharmacy.com/

Alternatively, if you can buy/arrange/scam/whatever a prescription, you can order atropine sulfate in an injection kit from one of these places:
http://www.buyemp.com/dept.asp?dept_id=1093901
http://www.ims-limited.com/criticalcaredrugs.htm
http://www.statkit.com/

But wait...

That last site, http://www.statkit.com/, seems to be willing to sell atropine sulfate injection kits without a prescription.

So, there you are. Thank you for shopping at RogueSci.

[Macaman]

Atropine is in the eyedrops used to dialate your pupils for an eye exam. There being so many of these done by so many people there must be a way to get some.

[Xave]

Travel sickness pills.
As far as i'm aware you can get atropine from several brands of travel sickness (aka motion sickness) tablets. I havent personally seen these, the variety i've used (for their correct purpose) contain scopolamine (aka hyoscine). They both have similar effects although there are a few differences, im not sure what they are.

If you're looking for a synth, check out www.rhodium.ws/chemistry (if you havent already :p )

[TheBicher]

I think the best course of action is obtaining the atropine from a plant source. As was previously stated, Datura contains atropine. For those of you who don't know, some people like to get high off of it. Aparently it's very dangerous, and not very enjoyable. What I like about it being a plant source is that you can potentially obtain large amount of atropine for very little money. Yes, it is a hassle, but it could be done on a large scale, minimizing the work. I'm going to research the extraction of atropine. Does anyone have an idea as to how much atropine must be used? Perhaps the biggest problem with an extraction is that you'll never get a 100% purity. It would be a major roadblock if the active does and lethal dose are very close together, as normally one would want to air (sp?) on the side of caution.

[nbk2000]

If I remember my hive chemistry correctly, atropine alkaloid forms a molecular basis for the synthesis of a superpowerful fentanyl analog, with an LD50 in the microgram range.

[blazter]

Funny you should mention that thread, as I just happened to browse by it recently. Too bad the original poster didn't seem to finish what he started by posting a practical synthesis guide, but at least theres a theory supported by what seems to be several valid journal references. This chemical would seem to be an attractive poison for oral administration via spiked drink, or however else one would care to deliver it. Anyways, without further ado, here's the link for those interested.

https://www.the-hive.ws/forum/showflat.pl?Cat=&Number=172159&page=&view=&sb=&part=all&vc=1

[nbk2000]

Drone didn't get to finish it because the DEA busted his ass. :(