Nitro paint-explosive?

[Mr. Boombastic]

Hallo to everybody!
I`m new hewre, so dont be harsh on me:) (I did read the rules)
I`ve been reading and studying the info on this forum for two months (more or less)
My favourite explosive is AN-due to availability. Thanks to you I found out that it can be improved-by adding NM.
The problem is that I don`t know where to get it -it`s not acetone you know:D
So I had an idea-why not use another nitro group containig stuff, meaning-nitro paints, (varnish or glue). These paints contain a big ratio of nitro cellulose (gun cotton). However they also contain other chemicals.
So here is my question-can this paint be added to AN (and will it improve the explosive)
If not-maybe somebody knows how to remove these unwanted additions (pure GC-it`s usefull stuff!!)
Oh, another thing-I dramed of making a plastic AN by adding wax+ vaseline and sensetize it by adding KClO3 (Ican get that stuff easyly)
Thanks !
Oh-sorry for my english.

[zeocrash]

The problem is that I don`t know where to get it -it`s not acetone you know
it should be available as a component in model fuel with methanol and castor oil, or it can be bought pure for custom mix fuels

[PHAID]

Gun cotton is easy to make the hard part is getting the nitric acid.

ill have to look up my old formula but i think it was 2 parts nitric acid to 1 part sulphuric acid and let the cotton soak 24 hours then rinse with tap water.

[blindreeper]

Gun cotton is not the subject here! That was totally useless info.
NM can be got at hobby stores as zeocrash mentioned. The first hobby store I went to which is a little store with an old man who runs it, I found 2.5L NM bottles (got me one now :D) and 5L methanol and 1L castor oil.

But ANNM doesn't improve the explosive as such. Well it increases to VoD but its still an AN explosive. It sensatises the mix which makes it easier to detonate. So you can use acetone if you want. Basicly and solvent/fuel you want.

[Desmikes]

Blindreeper, did you mean to say that ANNM is still just an AN comp, implying that it is somewhat inferior? ANNM (many % possibilities + other stuff out there) measures up favorably to dynamite with respectable NG content and TNT. By the way, does anybody know the VOD of standard 5:1 comp.

[Mr. Boombastic]

So you mean taht adding the nitro pain to AN is useless-OK, but you still didn`t answer my question-can it be extracted fom the paint.
Blindreeper,i wouldn`t say that GC is useless-I read somewhere, that a paste of GC (GC + solvent + AP) can be detonated with APAN booster, and it was said that it`s a POWERFULL STUFF. It can be used as a plastic HE while the solvent is inside, and you can also let the solvent to evaporate, then you get a solid HE.
I agree with Desmikes-ANNM is not just AN comp.,This mix has become more popular among the militarists too-due to stability when separated.

[Axt]

Originally posted by Desmikes
By the way, does anybody know the VOD of standard 5:1 comp.

I would have thought the "standard" comp would be 2:1 at OB, thats what I always assume unless a ratio is given after the name..

As for VOD, the only reliable data ive seen is for kinepak (3.3% xylene / 15.1% NM / 81.6% AN) which gives a VOD of 6120m/s. Now, lets assume the reasons for the added xylene is to give the mix OB with a lower amount of liquid fuel as AN prills wont hold enough NM to achieve OB, prills are used as a powder will clump and be a bastard to mix a fuel into while in a tube.

Taking that into account one would think that ANNM 66:33 would have a higher VOD then kinepak in the very least due to its greater density as a powder. Powdered ANNM will hold the NM as long as its used immediately after being mixed, if its to sit a while before detonation add a bit (doesnt need much) of guncotton to help hold the NM in the AN.

Bombastic: If you want an inert fuel as a relatively good sensitiser look for xylene, you wont get explosive grade NC from paint. Noone has said guncotton is useless and your AP compositions look straight from totse, APAN booster into AP NC solvent ... what the fuck. Anyone using more then a few grams of AP is looking for trouble.

[blindreeper]

You have all misunderstood me.

Desmikes - Yes I was saying ANNM is just another ANFO type forumlation, I was not saying it is inferior though ;)

Mr. Boombastic - When the hell did I say it was useless to add the paint? I said it would be just another fuel = another ANFO mix.
I also never said gun cotton was useless, I said that PHAID posting about the synthesis was totally useless info, it had nothing to do with the topic.

Hope that settles all of it :mad:

[Axt]

The fact the NM is an explosive in its own right means its not "just another ANFO formulation" that comment is misleading, its more simular to amatol then ANFO which should be left to AN + "inert" liquid fuel.

[blindreeper]

I thought if you were going for the true definition of ANFO (AN sensatised with a fuel of some sort) ANNM fits that catagorey. Yet I see how it is also explosive, its a bit iffy that one :(

[Mr. Boombastic]

OK-I got it. nitro paint will not give better results than any liquid fuel. :)
Oh,Axt, you are right-that GC comp. really is from totse (I`m a newbie here and dont know your relationships with other forums [like totse-it seems you hate it])
As I already mentioned, I have 0,5 kg of KClO3. I dont really know what to do with it (I mix some small amounts with red phosphorus und tap them with a hammer-just to for fun) I know I can mix it with wax and vaseline, but maybe I can use it for more noble ideas (mix it with AN or something else)
I can get more of that stuff with no questions asked.
Thanks.

[0EZ0]

Blindreeper, check your sources. Typical ANNM is not a sensitized AN+Fuel composition. It is more correctly a binary comp and is not usually mixed to OB as most AN+Fuel comps. Nitromethane alone is explosive. It is sensitized by the ammonium (NH4+) ion and other amines. Take ammonia sensitized NM (search) as an example.

From memory the VoD of the standard high percent NM compositions hover around the 6000's with variations in loading density, cap size and the ratios of AN to NM. Interestingly a small addition of methanol can increase the VoD up near the 7000's in peak conditions. Don't quote me on that though. I have not looked at any references discussing ANNM recently.

I must have another good look at the literature containing information on amine sensitized NM and ANNM.

[tom haggen]

Dude use some commom sense mr. boombastic. don't try and use kClO3 and red phosphorus in an amonium nitrate comp. Also if you read around a little more you might find that a KCLO3 and vasiline mixture is very hard to detonate. So how the fuck could you use such a mixture to sensitize an amonium nitrate comp? Mabey i'm wrong but it doesn't make sense to me. By the way where the hell did you get some red phosphorus? Also blindreeper, your posts made perfect sense. I cant believe how a hard of a time people were having trying to understand them. It looks like OZEO probably knows a little more about the subject of ANNM though.

[PhoeniX_KEA]

Hmm...... Red Phosphorous = http://www.iowapyrosupply.com/
Mr. Boombastic, what are your measurements for the following?
"plastic AN by adding wax+ vaseline and sensetize it by adding KClO3"
Thanks