Saddam Captured?

[Wild Catmage]

Well, the media seems to be having a field day on this one...

Apparantly Saddam has been captured in Tikrit after a tip-off was made to US troops. He was found in a cellar in the town of Adwar, 10 miles from Tikrit, and has now been moved to an "undisclosed" location.

"DNA evidence" has been used to confirm that the man captured is Saddam.

He'll now be facing trial for war crimes in Iraq.
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/World/GoodMorningAmerica/saddam_hussein_031214-1.html

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/12/14/1071336820648.html

http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackageArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=421856&section=news

U.S. officials will also hope to extract key intelligence on the alleged weapons programs which formed the public grounds for Bush to go to war in defiance of many U.N. allies. Little evidence of banned weapons has been found.

Hours after the arrest, a suspected suicide car bomber killed at least 17 people and wounding 33 at an Iraqi police station in the restive town of Khalidiyah, west of Baghdad.

U.S. officials had said Saddam had eluded American troops by moving every few hours, probably in disguise and aided by members of his clan around Tikrit, north of Baghdad.

"His arrest will put an end to military and terrorist attacks and the Iraqi nation will achieve stability," said Amar al-Hakim, a senior member of the Shi'ite political party the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq.

"We want Saddam to get what he deserves. I believe he will be sentenced to hundreds of death sentences at a fair trial because he's responsible for all the massacres and crimes in Iraq."

Mustafa Alani, an analyst at the Royal United Services Institute in London, warned, however, that there were other anti-American groups in Iraq ready to continue attacks.

"There will be a reduction in operations sponsored by former regime loyalists, but this is not the full story because they are not the only group involved," he said.

"For the Americans after the failure to capture Osama bin Laden after so many years, it is a propaganda coup...It's an intelligence prize because they can get information from him about cells working now. And it's a huge victory."


An informer was paid $30 million and given refuge in the United States for turning in Uday and Qusay. I wonder what the bounty is on Saddam's head?

EDIT - Saddam was probably dazed from having the crap beaten out of him by US troops, and the days of sleep deprivation that followed.

Hopefully there'll be a public execution like they have on Fednet in the film "Starship Troopers" :D.

How much has the war cost so far?

[zeocrash]

i have to say that's pretty impressive work by the inteligence services. IIRC the bounty on saddam was only $25 million.

[megalomania]

Looks like there will be a press conference at 11 AM Eastern Standard Time (20 minutes from now). Heh, he looks like the unibomber in the picture FOX news just showed with all the wild hair.

I hope they don't try him in US or international court. I hope they give him to the Iraqi people and try him by Iraqi law. Mideast law can have him put to death right quick.

[Skean Dhu]

i think the plan is sometime in the near future war crimes tribunals will commence, apparently the iraqis have been granted the permission to conduct them. i saw this on a 60min special about the mass grave sites they found

[Nevermore]

Originally posted by megalomania

I hope they don't try him in US or international court. I hope they give him to the Iraqi people and try him by Iraqi law. Mideast law can have him put to death right quick.

Sure why don't we go back to middle age? boil him in hot oil?
teaching someone not to kill by killing him is the most stupid thing that i've ever heard..unfortunately the mothers of stupids are always pregnant.
Mr Saddam and Mr Bush should be judged by an international court, both for crimes against humanity, being "prehemptive warfare" just another stupid way of trying to turn around the international laws that state that an aggression war w/o agreement of the international community is a crime.

[roux]

heheh i like the way you think Nevermore. i think many of you blind patriot fail to realize the the U.S. sold Saddam all of the weapons we are looking for. do not forget that we KNOW that Iran and N. Korea are building nuclear warheads. whereas in Iraq we dont have sufficient proof of their nuclear weapons program. oh, and dont forget that the U.S. government admited to lieing about "yellow cake" being sold to Iraq. so, why invade Iraq? because it is easy and profitable. look at the facts people.

[thrall]

The people who live in middle ages can only be treated with methods of midlle age.These are people who take sympathy and pity as foolishness of enemy.These people take everything for granted.And no matter what you do,it can not be otherwise.

Better finish them off before they come to you.Not that I'm saying because he caused a lot of bloodshed,there are many who had(china for instance).But others are wise people and knows when to quit,they are predictable by all the rules of sanity(though people of the order of saddam hussain are also predictable but not by the rules of sanity,on the behaviour of muslim bigots I've 100 things to say but......).

Just on a side note,What kind of fool this person is,I only realise today.Great! he didn't even bother to leave the country which was Ocupied by the forces of his enemy.I can't understand these kind of behaviour.These people seem to be the greatest patriot possible,never leave their land.Even when defeated.

Palestine! looking at it I realise what insanity can be.Those people are living in refuge camps for Fucking three generations and even now they are staying there.They can leave the place for good.There had been refuge problems in whole world. Lebanan,Greece,India everywhere the nuber of refuges was far more than the pelestine but in all these cases the population left to start a new life and world is forgetting those wounds.And pelestine! 3 fucking generations, 60-65 lakh people,taking pain of refuge camps,giving pain to their children,FIGHTING :rolleyes: by their own means.I don't understand.
"What can man do against such reckless............................?"

[vulture]

i have to say that's pretty impressive work by the inteligence services. IIRC the bounty on saddam was only $25 million.

You're kidding right? US forces got a tip from a family member. The intelligence services were clueless as to his whereabouts.

And tell me, how hard is it to capture a man, hiding in his hometown in a badly camouflaged pit without any defence? I thought the US had the whole country under control? :rolleyes:

Seems like a serious RTPB fuckup by Saddam. If it is him ofcourse.

[flashpoint]

They proved it was him, by DNA, gathered from his two sons, that were killed in that 4 hour firefight with coalition forces in July. Maybe this will let Bin-Laden, know he's not safe and scare his ass a little. They said he was dazed in a way, probably from being confined in a hole I suppose. I can't believe it took so long to find him...he was stupid from being like literally right across the Tigris River, from one of his old Palaces. Glad we've made a difference to the Iraqi's though, although I don't understand why we are giving him to Iraqi's if we do, because I fear they may rebel and possibly he could gain control somehow.

[vulture]

Glad we've made a difference to the Iraqi's though,

About time after nine months of the campaing don't you think? Certainly after the US was very quick to fix the oil pipelines and the contract for Halliburton, but failed to fix water, gas and electricity. Not to mention public safety.


Now, I wonder how long it takes before the capture of Saddam becomes the justification of the war.

The US will never capture Bin Laden. Officially that is. They'd be stupid to say they've captured Bin Laden. You need an untouchable element of fear, to haunt the feeling of safety and security of your population.

They proved it was him, by DNA, gathered from his two sons, that were killed in that 4 hour firefight with coalition forces in July.

I vaguely remember the US proving to the UN security council that Iraq had NBC weapons....:rolleyes:

Ofcourse, for the comfort of mind, we shall forget who helped Saddam grab power in the first place. And we shall also forget who supported Saddam in his war against Iran, in which he used chemical weapons against Iran. And ofcourse nobody remembers where those chemical weapon precursors came from. Sadly he made the mistake to want a share of Kuwaits...erh...sorry...US oil.

There's a similar case in the Muslem world right now. Musharraf. He's also oppressing his people, but since he's oppressing muslems and because he supports the war on Terror, the US kindly closes it's eyes for his crimes. That is ofcourse, until he wants his share of Afghanistans oil. At that point he'll become a cruel megalomanic tyran too.

And ofcourse everybody will then kindly forget who supported him in the first place.

[Skean Dhu]

i find it highly amusing/ironic that all the US allies from the 80's have since turned against us and are now using the weapons and tactical training we sold/gave them against us.

our political leaders seem to think that the end justifies the means, but they fail to realize who they are dealing with. Then 10-20 years down the road everyone is astonishd, when a group of 20 guys set up a plot to kill our people with millions of dollars that we hadn't accounted for. Which in all reality they probably had been saving and from what they got selling leftover Stingers . I wonder how many people will die from the likes of this in 20 years

[metal dragon]

There something I will never get, the almighty Americans may have got Saddam but what about old Bin Laden? Isn’t he the one that (supposedly) rammed a few planes in to some buildings, he is still free as bird. But somebody like Saddam who has done nothing, no proof of conducting any crimes against other people (not including his own) I totally agree with Vulture, especially about the oil. To sum it all up, it’s all about the oil.

[Lil_Guppy]

I don't get it either metal dragon. I always thought that it was Bin Laden that was striking out at the Americans, not Sadam, who was content with killing his own people. Another thing I don't get is the whole 'you have done such-and-such to your own people, now you must pay' attitude of the Americans. I mean, who was it that got thousands of their own people to 'voulenteer' (yeah right) to be exposed to nuke tests. I know all this happened more than 50 years ago, but that stil doesn't make it right.

Back on topic (kinda), IMO the Americans went after Saddam because he was an easy target. Much easier than Bin Laden, even though he is said to be behind the twin tower attack.

But anyway, thats just my humble opinion. BTW, when I say Americans, I mean the American government, not the American people :)

[xyz]

Like someone said earlier in this thread, why would they bother catching Bin Laden? And if they did, why would they tell anyone?

They need someone like that out there to keep the sheeple scared so that they can continue to restrict people under the pretence of protecting them. They'll keep doing this until everything is exactly how they want it and you need a license to possess toilet paper.

[vulture]

They need someone like that out there to keep the sheeple scared so that they can continue to restrict people under the pretence of protecting them. They'll keep doing this until everything is exactly how they want it and you need a license to possess toilet paper.

Holy cow! Don't forget the license for the hazmat baggie you'll need to properly dispose it! I mean hell, used toilet paper can be transferred into an explosive bioweapon! No kidding!

[roux]

damn straight! open your minds, blind patriots. let us not forget ruby ridge, kent state, Sherman Austun(raisethefist.com), vietnam, etc.

we got Saddam. big deal. just one guy who doesnt even have the power, nor the courage to use one of his weapons of mass deception. i highly doubt Saddam would attack the U.S. 9/11 style. he could better spend his money on his palaces, and he knows that. he would have too much to lose. whereas, the oppressed middleeasterners who were robbed by the zionist jews in the 1940's have already lost everything. place the "blame" where it sould be.

[Pyrovus]

Well, at least now Dubya and his cronies can feel nice and happy they've got their propaganda victory. I suppose they'll think that it vindicates their "strategy" of "fighting" terrorism by attacking those with nothing whatsoever to do with it. Sure, Saddam was evil, but what has capturing him really achieved? It looks very much like he had little to do with the resistance, and given how much the people of Iraq hate being occupied by the Yanks, it's highly likely that a lot of people will now join who wouldn't have before, because it would have meant fighting for Saddam. Dubya and his mates are harping on about how wonderful it is that they've "liberated" Iraq, but they haven't planned for the future one iota. What are they going to do when a majority of people elect an Islamic fundamentalist dictatorship every bit as bad as Saddam's, that unlike Saddam Hussein, actually supports terrorism? Overthrow the democratically elected government and replace it with some other dictator? If the Yanks were really serious about democracy and human rights, they'd be doing something about the three-dozen odd other countries run by evil dictators. And on the subject of human rights, they show real double standards with their concentration camp at Guantanamo bay, where they have been holding suspects for two years without bothering to charge them. Sure, most of them probably are terrorists, but whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? They are reluctant to try anybody there, which is probably because they know that there are some innocent people being held there, and it wouldn't look to good if they were later proclaimed to be innocent after being illegally held for two years. And the few trials they are planning are of the sort that Stalin would be proud of. It is bloody hypocritical of the Yanks to attempt to claim any form of moral high ground - after all, who helped Saddam into power and turned a blind eye to his atrocities in the first place?

[Flake2m]

Capturing Saddam might mean alot to Iraq, but to the rest of the world it makes no difference. As long as their are small victories every now and then the majority of the developed world wont think that its being conned into giving up certain liberties in pusuist of freedom.
While the Iraqi people might have their chance at justice after 23years of oppression. The rest of the world will conviently forget who was responsible for putting him in office, just like they'll forget about who supplied Iraqi with "Weapons of Mas Destruction".

[10fingers]

There is a great deal of evidence that Saddam has tortured and killed thousands of his own people. So far they have found 270 mass graves in Iraq which may contain upwards of 300,000 bodies.
There is no doubt to anyone that he initiated the wars against Iran and Kuwait. He is guilty of war crimes and crimes against humanity and execution would be too good for him. They should make him run a gauntlet through Baghdads streets and face the wrath of all the families who have suffered because of him.
As for weapons of mass destruction, the US has not found much. Only evidence that he maintained the technology and desire to produce them and he undoubtedly would have if it had not been for all the pressure on him over the last twelve years.
For all you paranoid nitwits that think everything that happens in the world is an evil US conspiracy, why did we not just plant some WMD's to be "found"?

[vulture]

As for weapons of mass destruction, the US has not found much. Only evidence that he maintained the technology and desire to produce them and he undoubtedly would have if it had not been for all the pressure on him over the last twelve years.


Okay, then Belgium is about to produce WMDs. Please liberate us. Why? Belgium has one of the most advanced methods of disposing/concentrating nuclear waste. Much research has gone into this. Furthermore, we have 4 nuclear powerplants which will be shutdown in 2015. Imagine what we could do with all the plutonium we get from that!


Ofcourse Saddam was a cruel dictator. So is Musharraf, the Saudi Regime, .....

Do I need to continue? You're not getting the point. The point is the US first puts them into office, allows them to perform their vicious crimes for decades and then suddenly gets rid of them for economical reasons. That's the point.

For all you paranoid nitwits that think everything that happens in the world is an evil US conspiracy, why did we not just plant some WMD's to be "found"?

Did anyone say that? No. You're using a rhetorical trick again. You're namecalling, which makes people feel bad and might lead them to abandon a valid point. Funny thing all neoconservatives use this tactic. How many times have I heard them screaming "liberal, treehugger, fag,..." :rolleyes:

Planting WMDs would be over the top. There would be so many people involved that the truth would surface sooner or later. Bad. Very bad.

But, because of very tight media control, many Americans believe the US has found WMDs. So why bother?

It's good the world has been liberated from Saddam. But again, this is not a justification of the war! If it is, when are we going to see an attack to remove Sharon? Fidel Castro?

Why did it take so long for the US to take Charles Taylor in Africa out of office while everyone was screaming about his crimes? Answer: There was nothing to gain for the US.

[thrall]

I can't understand the people who actually "believe" that foreign policy of any country can possibly be guided by humanity.I't's so simple and it has always been.See,it's the rule that EVERY countriy's foriegn policy is to meet some selfish motive of that country(exept for country like India that does not have a "policy" at the first place.).If you don't see any selfish motive in some act of a country,then go dig deep and find out because it's not the case that motive is absent,it's that you don't have enough information

[vulture]

About that mass killing of Saddam...

How many Iraqis were killed during the 2 Gulf wars? How many suffered from irrational sanctions that only harmed the population? How many are suffering from the health effects of depleted uranium?
1.5 million Iraqis died because of the embargo. Add 400,000 for both Gulf Wars. Were does that leave Saddams cruelty?

[tmp]

There are enough countries who have an axe to grind with Saddam Hussein.
The U. S. supported this butcher because we had an axe to grind with the
Iranian government. Personally, I don't believe Saddam Hussein would get
caught red-handed in the 9/11 atrocity. However, I have no doubt that he
would bankroll it. This man attacked his neighbors. When his target was
Kuwait, the world reacted. The U. N. sanctions would never have worked.
Butchers like Hussein are barely affected. Instead, the suffering is passed
on to their people. They're the real victims. Iran, Israel, Kuwait, and Saudi
Arabia all have legitimate reasons to want Hussein's head. But the people
of Iraq have the biggest issue of all. The nations of the world need to be
careful in determining who is and isn't an ally. This is particularly true for
the United States. A friend today can become the enemy of tomorrow.
I have no love for genocidal maniacs. For this reason, the peoples of their
respective countries should be their judges. I hope the people of Iraq hang
this son of a bitch ! As for Osama Bin Laden, look out asshole - you're next !

[Nevermore]

@ vulture
does belgium really want to shutdown the nuke power plants? from where is supposed to get the energy? should we all rely on france? it looks so..
stupid green party..

[roux]

tmp. either the U.S. has horrable timing, or this was isnt even about genocide. can anyone tell me how long ago Saddam killed these people? cuz i know it definetly would not fit under the catagory of curent events. and dont forget that the blood of the vietnamise communists are on american hands.

[metal dragon]

As for the weapons of mass destruction, where are they? Certainly after 9 months of intense looking they should be able to find them right? Wrong! How can you find something if it is not there? The U.S. un-doubtably has stockpiles of WMD, so do the Jews, Korea, Russia and about another dozen or so countries. But why Iraq? Is it because of their cruel dictator? No, it’s because they have a very valuable source oil. How bad would Bushy seem if he told the majority of the American slacked jawed Yokels that he raided Iraq for oil? He needs some thing to justify his actions, anything that’s where WMD come into it.

But the worts bit it is Little Johnny Howard is still licking Bush’s ass (as kindly stated by one of politicians)

[nbk2000]

I was arguing with some slack jaw who was all about how Bush had to liberate the Iraqi people from the Evil Saddam.

:rolleyes:

I then reposted with how we're kiling more Iraqis in a month than he did in two, about the hundreds of thousands who starved or died of related diseases during the decade of embargo, the DU poisoning, etc.

Not that I'm against any of that, just that I don't like the fact that they're no upfront about the reasons...OIL...and feel that they have to lie about it. :(

If they would just admit that we backed Saddam up for all these years, and slapped him because he overstepped his bounds, then I be all for it. Lying to us and saying that "It's for the children" or some such humanitarian bullshit is just insulting to me. :mad:

[wrench352]

MetalDragon,The difference is none of the entities you listed have used WMDs in anger.Iraq has.No the mass murder of the kurds is old news but how long has Iraq been under economic sanctions,UN inspections,etc.We did look the other way with Iran,but at the time we hated them,and an enemy of your enemy is your friend,but it came back to bite us in the ass.Just like overthrowing the Iranian govt in '55 did,hmmmm.As far as the missing WMDs,well thats why I started coming to places like this.They definitely had chemical weapons,and what was old Dr.Germ working on?Vaccine resistant small pox,super-flu,some Russian doomsday bug?Maybe some of them are on their way to Queensland right now,hmmm.Sleep well.

[vulture]

Sure, NK openly admits it has nuclear missiles aimed at washington and you're worried about untraceable WMDs from the shithole that is Iraq now... :rolleyes:

[nesler]

And if North Korea fired those missiles, would they even come close to hitting their target?

[nbk2000]

They say Saddam will be tried by the Iraqi people for crimes against humanity and all that.

Will never happen.

Why?

Because how would it sound if ol' Saddam start blabbing about how the US supplied him with the ways and means of oppressing his own people? How we allowed shipments of materials for constructing his CW program to be sent from germany and the US? How the CIA provided satellite photos of the various villages (in Iraq) that he subsequently gassed to exterminate the kurds?

Nooooo....can't allow that to happen.

So, he'll either be "tragicly" killed by a "terrorist" bomb at the prison he'll be held in, "hang himself to escape justice" ;), or be taken to the US for a secret trial as an enemy combatant and disappeared into a federal dungeon just like Noreiga from Panama.

Anyway it goes, there will be NO revelations permitted, no public trial, no chance for him to reveal US complicity in his regime.

All this being said, I still say "USA USA USA!" :D

[Blackhawk]

Nesler, the problem is not if NK missiles hit their targets, it is if they are launched at all. Becuase if they are the ensuing nuclear shitstorm will fuck a lot more than NK and the country they fired on, sometimes I wish warfare had stuck to pointy sticks and sharp metal, but then again the majority of major scientific breakthroughs are made during or for the purposes of war (the rest through serindipity(SP) ). In this case how is humanity supposed to continue without stalling in the evoloutionary sense or blowing the crap out of itself? The world is on a highwire without a net and something major will have to happen soon or the idiots like dubbaya WILL throw us off either side, it is a matter of time.

[roux]

to clear something up. NK does have nuclear warheads on rockets capable reaching the coast of california. scary shit eh? same with iran. it would be no problem for them to hide a nuclear warhead(which they will soon have) on a ferry and hold new york hostage. knowing this, i get sick of anyone who says "down with france, germany, russia", or any other country that is of no real threat.

[vulture]

Ah? That's interesting... So Iran has WMDs too now? I bet CNN told you that?
Or wait, I bet they showed you some fancy 3D simulation of gigantic trucks that carried whole cities with enslaved scientists? :rolleyes:

Hey! A moving sand dune on a satelite pic! Gotta be terrorists with WMDs! :rolleyes:

If you have Dubya understanding of geography, you might buy this...:rolleyes:

[metal dragon]

When was that last time Iraq used a nuclear warhead? I doubt Iraq has used a WMD or even had access to one. Sadam is not a nice bloke but if he wishes to kill his own people then let it be. What the fuck do the American people have to do with Iraq as NBK pointed out the bullshit they feed us? The funny thing is that idiots believe it.

Yet again, I totally agree with vulture that in most posts on this thread hit the nail on the head.

@ Wrench
Yes I will sleep well, very well. For even if it is on its way, I am powerless. Well for all you know they could be coming at you, our your family. Sleep well and make sure you kiss them goodnight for it maybe your last.

And to add to vulture’s satellite comment, there was a case where the beloved by all Americans destroyed a civilian truck because they thought they hit a tank. Yet again civilian causalities for American fault, sad. There was also another case where they hit a factor suspected of producing bio-weapons and gases, etc. you know what it was fucking instant milk powder.

Originally posted by roux
to clear something up. NK does have nuclear warheads on rockets capable reaching the coast of california. scary shit eh?


No it’s not for America has weapons that can do the same thing and the same with about 60 other countries. Why fear? You can do nothing about it.

As it seems according to America and the very reliable source that is known as the media every country America doesn’t like has WMD’s and stockpiles of gas and ICBM’s. What a heap no a mountain of fucking shit!

[apathyboy]

Well, with the costly missile defence program Bush is supporting, a couple of ICBM's won't be a big problem. The only reason they created that treaty was that missile defence ultimately leads to more nukes being made, to saturate the defences. The catch is, everyone except the US is too poor to make enough warheads to do that. Of course, you still gotta worry about Korea replacing a load of boat-people with a nuke and sailing it into a port, but that's always been a problem.

As for Bin Laden, if he ever died, neither side would tell. Like Vulture said, to the government he's a useful tool to intimidate the sheeple, and for the terrorists it's way better if he's still "outsmarting the Americans" and hasn't been caught. Bin Laden will probably outlive everyone at this forum :rolleyes:

[metal dragon]

Bush’s star war defence system will never ever work. Any body with half a brain would launch some dummy warheads from different position on the earth then have the real ones hit different locations. There star wars system is a waste of time apart form there political show. Which is of course you vote for us, we protect you. Another ass raping of common sense

[vulture]

The star wars system doesn't even work properly. It's just like the oil companies. Bush has fat ties with defense contractors and what would be better for them than a multibillion research project which needs ALOT of tests and tweaking.

Furthermore, it generates even more money for the defense contractors by secondary effects. Let me explain that. Bush stepped on a lot of toes when dismissing the ABM treaty and announcing the starwars system, because it defeats the mutual destruction principle, which was the basis for peace during and after the Cold War.

Now that it's off the table, some states will inevitably start building some new high tech weapons to be able to regain a bit of the mutual destruction. That's when Bush comes in, says they're making WMDs and presto, another war and another shitload of high tech weapons fired.

[roux]

i think bush fails to realize that the most effective defence against any weapon is a good foreign policy. i belive billions can be saved if we wernt spending money on weapons and if we started concentrating on diplomacy.

[metal dragon]

Bush fails to realize a lot of things. He is so paranoid about getting hit with weapons he invades other countries in hope of deterrence but is only giving the “terrorists” more encouragement. Another thing I found funny was the statistics brought up by my teacher, that 7 out of 10 Americans didn’t realize that the earth goes around the sun. This was in no way intended to degrade the American’s on this bored, but the fact still remains. People like Mega, NBK and other knowledgeable people of course fit in to the 30%.

[thrall]

I remember a story of wolf and lamb told to me in very early childhood that I didn't forget(and I won't).Whomevers fault it is,it's the lamb that dies in the end,if wolf wants lamb dead then the lamb will die.

Though I've always believed that in the course of history,it's not the people but the leaders that make things happen.To some extant I still believe so.(Chengis khan lead the mongol horde and a good thing to know is that death rate of mongol population was same before and during the Movement and wars).
BUT......the more I see history closely the more I realize,of course it is the leaders at the end BUT it's the people in the begining.(Kanishka was assasinated by his own generals while trying to force his armies for conquest of china which the army didn't like--they were satisfief with victoryies and booties of north India,Or in the french revolution the famous general Dillon;)(poor guys):))

What I read in history that the WHITEMAN was always welcomed in the countryies(later to become his colonies) they landed in the time of explorations.Probably that is the most natural reponce of a Human being to another Human when first seen.Anyway the history books(the one we find in our academic courses) remain a bit silent but the present tells us that 3 continents have been wiped out(CLEAN) and numerous messaccers in other places.Thats what WHITEMAN did to the people who welcomed him.

But anyway these facts are not to be remembered and to be forgotten to make sure that bloodshed ends somewhere because otherwise there is no end to hatred :rolleyes:.My point is that the people who Loved peace or at least with less greed and lesser sence of insecurity are already clensed.They don't exist anymore.They went away in mass(like in 3 continents) or localised massaccers.(China kept cool and eventually colonised so as India,and so called bloodthirsty Japanese not only held their own land but captured more in theirs neighbouing regions from the WHITEMAN).

So forget about peace.There shall be no peace till last of the remaning humankind dies(since the people who really loved peace are already dead;)).Life is not about enjoying(live and let live,eh?),it's about struggle.And the struggle will go on.There is nothing that can be about it other that quitting(suicide :cool: ).

May be it's merely folly of Saddam or Bush or Kim Jong II or........but actually it is not.A piece of land with a set of people that shared some commonalities was seperated and then they evolved with some sytem than it's the PEOPLE who shall be held responsible.(though in all the wars there is that "innocent citizen" syndrome).But UNO(well,for all practicle purposes it does not exist as such) will not accept it,nor our shitty global inteligentia.They are contaminating the life and dreams of people in the name of humanity.

Well,in short:there is no end to wars long as men live on this tiny planet.And it is the people who are responcible since the people who LOVED peace are resting in peace from a long while:cool:.
Corrolleries:Diplomacy can postpone the war not avoid it,WMD will be produced and eventually aquired by all the Countries since the countries without WMDs are the lambs in wolf herd so the will follow the example of Iraq;) and hence eliminated for all practicle purposes.The armament run will never halt and the participent who will get tired first will rest in peace.

Thats what the life is.Truth is not so sweet all the time so accept it as it is.

[Efraim_barkbit]

(sorry for this, but I just HAD to post it. (pic coming)
I leave it to the ones who decides if a pic is worthy to decide if you will see it.)


I´m very sad right now, Santa didn´t come through my chimney this year
can it be due to this?

[DimmuJesus]

I almost have a conspiracy theory on this one. Directly after 9/11, almost every action Bush took had most of America's full support. We watched as we went into Afghanistan and tore the county apart. We did not however find the person we were looking for. When Bush decided to move on to another venture, that of moving into Iraq, he didn't have the support he had before. Morale was much lower. Then on top of that, we didn't find any weapons of mass destruction. Morale is even lower. Now suddenly to kick of the election year, Saddam is captured. I have a few lingering questions in my head about it. Did we always know where he was and just waited to capture him? Is it really even Saddam? Did we perhaps already have him in custody?
Don't get me wrong, I think this in many ways is a great thing, but it seems all too convenient. I do have to ask though, for all the people that say we went in looking for him, with our elite covert ops groups, why didn't we just assassinate him? I understand of course that it would be bad politics if we had, but even the CIA could have been in and out without anyone even knowing what country or group was responsible. In my opinion it would beat destroying not only an entire country but almost an entire culture.

[nuclearattack]

so there are many peoples thinking like me! Nevermore,vulture, roux and others i don't remember. We do not need to capture only saddam or others dictators to stop international terrorism and wars...we need to capture also bush!

[tmp]

Danish forces have recently dug up a handful of mortar rounds containing blistering
agents in Iraq. These rounds are estimated to be 10 years old meaning Saddam's
forces probably put them in the ground right after the 1st Gulf War. Whether or not
this was done to deceive the U.N. inspectors is irrelevant at this point.
These devices exist in violation of the restrictions placed on Iraq by the U.N.
I believe this find is the beginning. But how much effort, blood, and money will
be spent trying to dig up a country roughly the size of California ? I'm sure
these weapons are hidden all over Iraq.

Saddam should have let the inspectors in and continued playing the shell game with
them. He had 12 years to perfect his methods. Instead, he balked at the U.N. and
managed to piss off George Bush. After the 9/11 attacks he had to believe the U.S.
would cast a suspicious eye on Iraq because, after all, the terrorists and Saddam
are from the same region of the world. Now he's lost everything - his country,
money, power, his sons, his freedom and more than likely his life. Germany started
constructing weapons secretly after signing an armistice agreeing not to.
The outbreak of World War II proved that just about anything agreed to on paper is
worthless. Why should anyone have believed that Saddam would have honored an
agreement with the U.N. ?

BTW, if the forces on the ground keep finding these hidden WMD caches, there are
people and politicians in particular who will end up with egg all over their faces.

[ibuprofen]

He did let the inspectors in and was allowing them to go anywhere they wanted. It was the US that pulled them out, first in 1998 (so Clinton could bomb him) then in 2002 so Bush could start his war. Saying this is a violation of UN regs when they were buried 10 years ago would be like someone coming here and digging up a buried machine gun from a Vietnam vet and saying it violated UN regulations (if it did). The members of this forum collectively probably have more chemical weapons than they have found there yet.

And I would hardly call a pile of mortar shells leaking liquid and buried in a bag in a marsh a "cache". A cache implies one could readily dig up and use the ordnance. It's more likely they were from the Iran-Iraq war and probably have US origins in the first place, and he had our blessings at the time to use them.

[vulture]

Oh, gimme a break. Why haven't we heard anything of these rounds then? The press would be blowing it up all over the place.

Instead, he balked at the U.N. and
managed to piss off George Bush.

Odd. I thought George Bush balked at the UN? Really, don't reverse cause and consequence.

A few months after Bush grabbed power...eh sorry....was elected..cough...he announced his little axis of evil, pissing off all those countries. Now, if you're telling someone you'll be kicking their ass soon because you don't like them, what are they going to do? Sit there and say yes sir, thank you sir?

Be a bit realistic for fucks sake.

Also, about the 1st Gulf war between the US and Iraq (actually the 1st Gulf war is the war between Iraq and Iran); US diplomats told Hoessein they would look the other way if he had any plans to invade Kuwait. Saddam took the bait and we all know what happened.

[Voyager]

Saddam may not live to be executed:

http://www.novinite.com/newsletter/print.php?id=29632

Report: Saddam Hussein Has Cancer
2004-01-07
The ousted Iraqi dictator, who is currently under custody with the coalition forces, suffers from cancer of lymph glands, Kuwaiti Al-Anba daily reads, citing an Iraqi official. According to the daily, the disease is in an advanced stage, so doctors predict the former dictator would probably live a couple of years more.

Doctors came out with the fatal diagnosis while making thorough medical checking of Saddam Hussein at his capture near his hometown of Tikrit in December 2003.

Allegations of Saddam's illness appeared during the military campaign in Iraq last year, when one of his private doctors, residing in Syria, claimed that the former dictator suffered from cancer.

[xyz]

Well NBK predicted that Saddam would be ki.. er sorry, ..., die before he was put to trial. Cancer of the lymph glands is their excuse.

[Wild Catmage]

That sounds very convenient :rolleyes:

Afghanistan is now more of a shithole than it was under Taliban rule. They've now switched back to growing more exotic crops than they could under Taliban rule.

Saddam's now classified as a prisoner of war, as he was a part of the former regime's military. This menas that they now have to treat him according to the Geneva Convention. However the Guantanamo Bay prisoners are classified as Illegal Combatants (I think) and don't have to be treated under the Geneva Convention.