zaibatsu
October 13th, 2002, 09:08 AM
Detonator
Frequent Poster
Posts: 132
From:
Registered: NOV 2000
posted January 06, 2001 03:10 AM
What could be the different with powder AP and Crystals of AP...
which is more unstable..?
I tried 1 cup citric acid
2 cups h2o2 33%
3 cups acetone
now it's more than 30 hours no result yet...
will tell you when it's finished
CragHack
Frequent Poster
Posts: 606
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 06, 2001 08:33 PM
well, a couple of things here. the powder LIKE AP is still a crystal, but it is just a realy small one, thus it feels like a powder. also, i do not think citric acid is going to work. (does anyone know the emperical formula for it?) i think you need an acid that is going to produce a pretty large amount of H+ ions and as far as i know, citric acid isn't going to do it.
oh, also, i just read your post again, you are using way to much acetone. try and tone it down about a cup.
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...Æ
[This message has been edited by CragHack (edited January 06, 2001).]
MacCleod
Frequent Poster
Posts: 215
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 07, 2001 01:34 AM
Place a batch of powdery AP on a styrofoam dinner plate,cover with another plate.Let it sit for a week or so,then take a look;you'll have a batch of fine,shiny crystals!The AP sublimes,recrystallizes into larger,more easily visible crystals.
------------------
"There can be only one!"
Detonator
Frequent Poster
Posts: 132
From:
Registered: NOV 2000
posted January 07, 2001 02:46 AM
Don't you think that the big crystals are more unstable??
Citric acid works just fine...
ABout the Acetone, i was trying different ammounts but shouldn't I add acetone more than h2o2?
Arthis
Frequent Poster
Posts: 203
From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted January 07, 2001 06:27 AM
Well, CragHack, be careful that he uses 33% h2o2, which is very concentrated. I use that too, and I can assume by many tests that with these conc., you may use about twice acetone as h2o2, but not less.
If you add citric acid, it may not work, or you may have to add much more. But as I said, as it is a catalyst, it should work anyway, but you will have to wait much moren time (it isn't a mineral acid).
CragHack
Frequent Poster
Posts: 606
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 07, 2001 12:23 PM
point well taken. thank you arthis.
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...Æ
extreme
Frequent Poster
Posts: 102
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 07, 2001 12:29 PM
i use 35% h2o2
Stone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 140
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 09, 2001 08:58 PM
Do you realise that if your(Detonator) reaction had worked, you'd have a FUCKING SHITLOAD of AP.
I don't think i'd want that much ever.
[This message has been edited by Stone (edited January 09, 2001).]
MasterMayhem
Frequent Poster
Posts: 84
From: Norway
Registered: OCT 2000
posted January 12, 2001 07:38 AM
Some people say that your supposed to use more aceton then h202 when using 30% h202. And some tell me the opposite.
SafetyLast
Frequent Poster
Posts: 232
From: the cretaceous period
Registered: OCT 2000
posted January 12, 2001 12:13 PM
you are supposed to use more acetone when using 30% H2O2. by now everybody should know that you use the volumetric ratio 1:6(H2O2 to Acetone) to get the most AP crystals.
I have heard that you should use the same ammount of H2O2 as Acetone, but that would be acetone deficient
[This message has been edited by SafetyLast (edited January 12, 2001).]
MacCleod
Frequent Poster
Posts: 215
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 12, 2001 11:50 PM
A friend of mine tried making two large batches of AP(4 times the amounts in Imp. Munitions)using 27%H2o2 for the 1st. time.The qty.'s were:200 ml.H2o2/120 ml.acetone/12 ml.94%sulfuric acid.In a few hours he had two large batches of powdery AP,but it was very weak;when compressed in a 1/4 in.pipe,it burned,didn't bang.He added the acid rather rapidly-is the increased heat the cause?.He's used the same formula successfully with 20 vol.,but was more patient,adding the acid a few drops at a time.
Frequent Poster
Posts: 132
From:
Registered: NOV 2000
posted January 06, 2001 03:10 AM
What could be the different with powder AP and Crystals of AP...
which is more unstable..?
I tried 1 cup citric acid
2 cups h2o2 33%
3 cups acetone
now it's more than 30 hours no result yet...
will tell you when it's finished
CragHack
Frequent Poster
Posts: 606
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 06, 2001 08:33 PM
well, a couple of things here. the powder LIKE AP is still a crystal, but it is just a realy small one, thus it feels like a powder. also, i do not think citric acid is going to work. (does anyone know the emperical formula for it?) i think you need an acid that is going to produce a pretty large amount of H+ ions and as far as i know, citric acid isn't going to do it.
oh, also, i just read your post again, you are using way to much acetone. try and tone it down about a cup.
------------------
...Æ
[This message has been edited by CragHack (edited January 06, 2001).]
MacCleod
Frequent Poster
Posts: 215
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 07, 2001 01:34 AM
Place a batch of powdery AP on a styrofoam dinner plate,cover with another plate.Let it sit for a week or so,then take a look;you'll have a batch of fine,shiny crystals!The AP sublimes,recrystallizes into larger,more easily visible crystals.
------------------
"There can be only one!"
Detonator
Frequent Poster
Posts: 132
From:
Registered: NOV 2000
posted January 07, 2001 02:46 AM
Don't you think that the big crystals are more unstable??
Citric acid works just fine...
ABout the Acetone, i was trying different ammounts but shouldn't I add acetone more than h2o2?
Arthis
Frequent Poster
Posts: 203
From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted January 07, 2001 06:27 AM
Well, CragHack, be careful that he uses 33% h2o2, which is very concentrated. I use that too, and I can assume by many tests that with these conc., you may use about twice acetone as h2o2, but not less.
If you add citric acid, it may not work, or you may have to add much more. But as I said, as it is a catalyst, it should work anyway, but you will have to wait much moren time (it isn't a mineral acid).
CragHack
Frequent Poster
Posts: 606
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 07, 2001 12:23 PM
point well taken. thank you arthis.
------------------
...Æ
extreme
Frequent Poster
Posts: 102
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 07, 2001 12:29 PM
i use 35% h2o2
Stone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 140
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 09, 2001 08:58 PM
Do you realise that if your(Detonator) reaction had worked, you'd have a FUCKING SHITLOAD of AP.
I don't think i'd want that much ever.
[This message has been edited by Stone (edited January 09, 2001).]
MasterMayhem
Frequent Poster
Posts: 84
From: Norway
Registered: OCT 2000
posted January 12, 2001 07:38 AM
Some people say that your supposed to use more aceton then h202 when using 30% h202. And some tell me the opposite.
SafetyLast
Frequent Poster
Posts: 232
From: the cretaceous period
Registered: OCT 2000
posted January 12, 2001 12:13 PM
you are supposed to use more acetone when using 30% H2O2. by now everybody should know that you use the volumetric ratio 1:6(H2O2 to Acetone) to get the most AP crystals.
I have heard that you should use the same ammount of H2O2 as Acetone, but that would be acetone deficient
[This message has been edited by SafetyLast (edited January 12, 2001).]
MacCleod
Frequent Poster
Posts: 215
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 12, 2001 11:50 PM
A friend of mine tried making two large batches of AP(4 times the amounts in Imp. Munitions)using 27%H2o2 for the 1st. time.The qty.'s were:200 ml.H2o2/120 ml.acetone/12 ml.94%sulfuric acid.In a few hours he had two large batches of powdery AP,but it was very weak;when compressed in a 1/4 in.pipe,it burned,didn't bang.He added the acid rather rapidly-is the increased heat the cause?.He's used the same formula successfully with 20 vol.,but was more patient,adding the acid a few drops at a time.