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Axt
December 22nd, 2003, 08:29 AM
Firstly an improvised claymore was made using a 2" PVC endcap as containment, and through lack of having anything better, 35 coins in 7 piles 5 deep were placed at the front of the charge. A single paper layer was then glued over the coins.

NC was used to glue the coins together before loading to hold them in place as the Charge (108g of ANNMNCAl 7:4:1:1) would then dissolve the NC after they were fixed in place.

On detonation the explosive had a significant "kick" which hit me harder then what I was expecting, especially since I wasnt even in view of it. But the coins proved to perform very badly having a very wide and inconsistant pattern, only 4 coins hit the computer of which 3 were nearly in the same place. Penetration, considering the light weight and high surface area of the coins was expected to be poor against hard targets, only 1 of the coins penetrating 2 layers of steel.

<center>http://ww1.altlist.com/~52497/rogue.altlist.com/images/computerdemolition1.jpg
MOVIE AVAILABLE (http://geocities.com/roguemovies4/)</center>

A second charge was used to complete the destruction, 2 charges were used linked by detonating cord. The first charge of prilled ANNM 85:15 was used under the monitor to launch it into the air and second, ANNMNC mixed to optimise plasticity (unknown ratio, about 2:6:2) was placed on top of the box thing to plant it into the ground.

The linking detcord was ETN in a line up masking tape, which was folded over, with a booster on the end to help initiation of the insensitive ANNMNC 2:6:2. The detonator was placed into the ANNM charge under the monitor.

On detonated with noticibly less force then the optimised ANNMNCAl charge used in the claymore even though about 3 times bigger, but all charges fired with complete destruction of the computer as a result.

<center>http://ww1.altlist.com/~52497/rogue.altlist.com/images/computerdemolition2.jpg
MOVIE AVAILABLE (http://geocities.com/roguemovies4/)</center>

In conclusion, coins make crappy shrapnel against hard targets, ratio for cap sensitive and powerful plastic ANNMNCAl is 7:4:1:1, ETN in folded tape can pass as a det-cord and blowing up a computer makes a bloody mess.

TheBear
December 22nd, 2003, 03:27 PM
Very nice! Good formula for the plastic, easy to find materials and it obviously has proved its efficiency :)

Just a question: How much did the charges weigh?

Blackhawk
December 22nd, 2003, 07:29 PM
Blast, geocities over their limit. I like your movies Axt, they always have such a cool sound track your cam has a good mic, what is the brand?

Axt
December 22nd, 2003, 11:43 PM
108g for the claymore, each coin was about 2g. Didnt weigh anything else but you can have a guess -

http://ww1.altlist.com/~52497/rogue.altlist.com/images/compcharge.jpg

The camera is an ancient JVC.

Im thinking ETN will be soluble enough and sensitive enough to be able to form a detcord by running cotton string through ETN/NC/Acetone and allowing to dry. Something like adding 5 ETN in 1 NC into the acetone. Has anyone tried anything simular with other explosives, seems like a pretty obvious way of creating cord and not as tedious as running a line up the tape.

metal dragon
December 23rd, 2003, 12:44 AM
Axt,
Why don’t you made your det. cord out of hosepipe or simular flexible plastic tubing? Surly it would prove to be better containment than tape and be easier to work with. All you have to do is just push it in form one end. What type of coin did you use?

blindreeper
December 23rd, 2003, 01:06 AM
Axt, not just in this movie but most of yours, what is that yellow.orange fuse? Is it comercial? What did you use as a detonator?

Axt
December 23rd, 2003, 01:17 AM
Using a tube would be even more tedious in anything over a foot length of cord, getting clumpy ETN into a thin cord and tamping down would take a long time, and then you would nearly be assured of ending up with gaps forming over time, commercial cord uses threads through the tube to stop this.

At least with the tape your not limited to length and its stickyness helps hold it in place, if NC bound ETN on string works it would be easier and better then either.

Blindreeper: Its safety fuse, the det in picture above is a .22 hornet case with mixed AP/ETN 3:7, first time both that det and/or the detcord was used, lucky it worked at all.

EDIT: Australian 5c coin or about 1.5mm x 20mm for non-Australians or 3/50" x 79/100" for Americans :p

blindreeper
December 23rd, 2003, 01:53 AM
Axt can you email me about where you got the fuse from if you don't mind?

Skean Dhu
December 23rd, 2003, 03:13 AM
Found a solution to making your detcord woes, Dan williams' Sticky match setup could be converted to detcord production with 0 modifications to the equipment. just put ETN in instead of Black powder. http://www.wecreate4u.net/dwilliams/sticky/sticky.html

also, from my slingshot endeavors as a rowdy pre-teen, i can tell you that coins make for horrible accuracy/consistancy . they spin off in a random direction that changes with the slightest breeze and with a characteristic *fvwinnng*.
or could it be that they were shattered by the charge into pieces too small to have damaged the steel case.
nice video shots by the way. the aftermath is amusing, the way it formed a perfect ring(not that i should be surprised it did that)

xyz
December 23rd, 2003, 03:39 AM
I would also like to be emailed about that fuse Axt.

Axt
December 23rd, 2003, 04:25 AM
You have both got mail, though I dont think it will be any use ... noone else ask in this thread (or at all) Its pretty obvious where its available, and not by mail order so of limited use.

I hadnt seen that page Skean, make a production line of the stuff. Slight problem is that BP flows and ETN doesnt, so it will be a bit harder (far harder if your not using that rig), and it will take more ETN then ETN/NC soaked string.

I was expecting them to fly all over the place, thats why I placed it so close, still makes it seem strange that 3 hit in the same place. If you look close theres a couple streaks in the ground where two dug it up and another coin hit the light coloured pile of dirt to the left of the computer, which ended up being a nest of very pissed bulldog ants, made setting up the next charge delightful.

The coins didnt break as a couple were found bent up in the computer, I dont think any known explosive will bust up those coins. Im not sure what you mean by "ring", if you mean the rubble then you didnt download the movie! funnily only the base of the box thing remained behind, I just collected all the crap up for a picture.

blindreeper
December 23rd, 2003, 06:17 AM
Never would have guessed that source Axt.
I am not in that much need of fuse any more as I have today received 13m of 2mm green water-proof visco fuse. My brother has connections where he works ;), cost him as much as it costs to shout some one to McDonalds for lunch :D
My brother also got me 50 leader fuses for shells, the guy was going to throw them out because he had done a show the night before. They have 10 of CHUNKY green visco! I mean chunky, like 4mm thick! Also the leaders have some anwhere between 3cm - 20cm of black match in them. I think the secret to good quick match is to have 6 strands of black match in them :eek:
Plus I am waiting on an order of 36ft of brown 3mm cannon fuse.
Xyz, if you have ordered fuse from the same place as I and are getting impatient about it, I rang them today and they havn't got any in and they're waitng for the truck to come in then they will send away. Its been 3 weeks for me so they could have at least told me what was going on :rolleyes:

Ok that was WAY! off topic, I appologise.

Axt, about the claymore, I am a stranger to this but why use coins? To improvise the whole thing? I know metal bearings can be expensive, so the next time there is a crappy fair/carnival in your area check it out and try and find a stall that sells little spring "bb" guns. They are crap and don't hurt at all but the bb's are 6mm yellow and friggin hard plastic. Not sure if they would be much use because they are plastic but it could be something to try out.

About the det cord made by soaking it in a solution of ETN, I think it would turn out like KNO3 improvised fuse, just a coat of delicate crystals around the cord = not usefull.
This is probably a stupid idea but if you had some material/fabric such as cotton. Have a 1m strip of it about 3cm wide and iron it down the center to make a fold. Make a line of your ETN down (don't do this with primaries at all!) the fold and fold it in half. So you have a long piece of fabric with a line of ETN down the middle. Now using your skills you should have learnt in grade 8 home economics ;) pin the open side down with (obviously) sewing pins and the ETN should be held fairly tight. Then get on your mums sewing machine and sew on the inside of the pins so you have a nice firm "tube" of ETN. THis could be bent and beaten quite a bit qithout it breaking I think if you pack the ETN tight enough.
Not sure how easy it would be to make or anything but it may be worth a try. Other than that I am stuffed for ideas right now.

Axt
December 23rd, 2003, 07:51 AM
Ive used BB's in "claymores" before, just buy them for a BB gun or as non-toxic shot for shotshells. But sometimes its best to experiment with the unknown just to see what happens, such as coins which I was thinking would shred the sheet metal better.

I think ETN/NC/string detcord will work for these reasons -

- ETN is very soluble in acetone, damn near miscible with it so you are going to get a lot into a piece of string.

- It doesnt take much NC to thicken it into a paste and stick it hard.

- ETN should have a very low critical diametre, commercial cord with PETN goes down to 3g/m and probably smaller, ETN is more sensitive and comparable in power so critical diametre could be even less then PETN, meaning you wont need much in the string.

- If needed you could then draw the cord through a sealant that doesnt dissolve the NC/ETN, this will help hold it together and prevent friction sensitivity on the cord.

Ummm .. sewing up the detcord .... are you serious! Go to bed and get some sleep :p

metal dragon
December 23rd, 2003, 08:54 AM
AXT,
If it helps according to Australian law the only ammunition that can be purchased with out a licence are air rifle pellets I think this would make perfect shrapnel. Especially if the skirt is placed facing towards the explosive.

blindreeper
December 23rd, 2003, 07:05 PM
Well I said this is probably a stupid idea and it was. But instead of a sewing machine what is wrong with hand sewing? ETN is not a primary so there is little risk.

xyz
December 23rd, 2003, 09:19 PM
metal dragon, I'm not sure about Queensland but where I am you do need a license to buy air pellets.

blindreeper, No, my fuse was ordered from somewhere else and it has already arrived.

metal dragon
December 23rd, 2003, 10:24 PM
Xyz,
That’s interesting because I have never had any trouble what so ever buying them in the state’s of Victoria, NSW, QLd and western Australia. And according a brochure handed out by the Australian government when I purchased my gun, is that ammo that has an explosive of any sort is banned with out a license but things such as air rifle pellets, bb’s for use in shot guns, etc are perfectly legal

xyz
December 24th, 2003, 03:14 AM
Hmmm, I am in WA but I have heard that you need a license even for air pellets. I am sure that I read it on a police or government website.

It may just be that they are classified as ammunition if you want to import them.

Hang-Man
December 24th, 2003, 09:50 AM
Go buy lead fishing weights if you can't get pellets. the small rounds ones you clamp on your line.
Edit: I just got 50' of Visco by asking some guy at a fireworks store! it was that easy! only cost me $10 cdn!!!

PHAID
December 24th, 2003, 03:41 PM
The best thing for a claymore is 1/4" steel ball bearings which you should be able to find at a hardware store or in places that sell them as slingshot ammo.

xyz
December 24th, 2003, 09:03 PM
The actual claymore used by the US military has 700 3/8" steel ball bearings IIRC. So I suppose ball bearings are the way to go if you can get them.

metal dragon
December 24th, 2003, 09:20 PM
Yeah I agree with the fishing weight. They ones I believe you are talking about are things called split shots. They are small fairly heavy for they’re size and squash on impact so it would maximise damage.
I used to have lots of fun with an air compressor some plastic tubing and split shots. All you do is load them up in to the tube and turn the compressor on and the fire out. Simple but very amusing especially trying to hit toads.

nbk2000
December 24th, 2003, 11:41 PM
It's 7/32" for claymore fragments, which is a hairs width smaller than 1/4", so I'd call it 1/4" and use steel slingshot ammo that's been annealed.

Desmikes
February 17th, 2004, 11:08 PM
Metal nuts (for bolts) work well as shrapnell. Do you guys have problem finding old car/tractor ballbearings? Why do you insist on buying slingshot ammo and lead weights, when you can get a dozen from a single ballbearing?

knoddas
March 12th, 2004, 08:44 AM
Pieces cut from a metal rod of suitable diameter will also work.
This kind of projectiles are used in the Russian fragmentation mines MON-100 and MON-200.

nuclearattack
April 5th, 2004, 06:03 AM
AXT your test inspired me!
I decided to make another computer demolition on my own, i made this test yesterday morning. I placed 310 gr of kinepak into the case and the monitor was placed next to it. The charge was in a glass jar reinforced with concrete. The charge destroyed the computer and the monitor completely, the bang was heard by a friend of mine at 3 KM of distance! I found computer pieces at 100 meters far from the detonation site and the biggest fragment was about 15 cm square. After all kinepak has a good brisance and works very well on soft and medium target. I'll do other tests and i will post some pictures of the results.