zaibatsu
October 13th, 2002, 09:15 AM
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 30, 2000 05:13 PM
I had a bit of a close encounter with AP earlier this evening, hopefully it may convince people that AP can be very sensitive and unpredicatable.
I was out of hcl so I made a batch using 91% h2so4, I used 200ml of 6% h2o2 and 250ml nail varnish remover. The resulting AP was VERY fine and I was pleased with how much I'd got, I had about 40-50gm, I spread the shaving foam looking AP out only the filter cloth, put it on a newspaper, on a desk under the desk lamp.
I was sitting on the floor on the other side of the room spending hours gradually grinding up 1kg of NaClO3. (the AP was going to be for the detonator) All of a sudeen there was a god almighty explosion and I was plunged into darkness.
My first thought was the chlorate that I was grinding then I realised it couldn't have been that and it was the AP.
The lamp was the type on spring loaded arms with a steel cone shaped shade, it was only a few inches above the AP but at that distance it was barely warm to the hand.
The shockwave from the blast hadn't actually broekn the light bulb but had killed it, the hatch to the loft had also been blown open (weighs about 6 pounds).
I took a few pictures of the damage, the desk was totalled, the chair was under thedesk and had a hole in it, bitsof wood from the desk had gone through the carpet. The steel lamp shade had shot up, smashed a hole in the sloped part of the ceiling and then flew across the room.
It was a complete mess there were bits of everything all over the room and the ceiling and wall are full of holes from schrapnel.
Fortunately I was down low so I was unharmed aprt from ears that didn't stop ringing for an hour, I've also got plastering to do. On closer inspection, there are large cracks running the length of the room around the edge of the ceiling (that weren't there before) where the prety weak plaster ceiling has been pushed up. I was damn lucky the wondow less than 3ft from the AP didn't blow out.
Here's some pics:
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/spudguns_uk/damage.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/spudguns_uk/damage.jpg</a>
The overall scene, the stuff that looks like sawdust is plaster.
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/spudguns_uk/hole.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/spudguns_uk/hole.jpg</a>
The hole in the ceiling.
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/spudguns_uk/desk2.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/spudguns_uk/desk2.jpg</a>
The desk.
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/spudguns_uk/desk.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/spudguns_uk/desk.jpg</a>
The hole in the desk from underneath
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/spudguns_uk/lamp.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/spudguns_uk/lamp.jpg</a>
The twisted remains of the steel lampshade.
I something was seriously up with the AP to make it so sensitive, I washed it with cold water under the tap as usually but not so argressively as I was losing some AP through the filter cloth. Needless to say, I shan't be using h2so4 again and will be revising my method of making AP entirely. I'm surprised I didn't notice the AP starting to decompose but then I was pretyy invlove with grinding the chlorate and had the TV up pretty loud. I also wouldn't have expected the stuff to actually detonate considering how spread out it was. Just goes to show how unpredictable this kind of stuff can be.
Otherside
A new voice
Posts: 20
From: On the otherside
Registered: DEC 2000
posted December 30, 2000 05:25 PM
Damn...
Cricket
Frequent Poster
Posts: 160
From: USA
Registered: OCT 2000
posted December 30, 2000 06:01 PM
I would shit all over myself if that happened to me. Glad you survived man. Its amazing you didnt get messed up! Be carfuller. I dont even wash my AP, and have had no problem with sensitivety, but I definately will now.
PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1466
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 30, 2000 06:25 PM
the worst incident that happened to me was when I had a quarter pound of ap (damp) go off about 4 feet from me beacust my mom walked by and a cigarette butt from her cigarette fell off of the grill (grill wasnt being used) and hit the damp ap and made a huge fireball and scorched the front of my body, luckily I was wearing goggles.
needless to say I was very, very angry with my mom, she knows acetone is flammable and not to smoke near my stuff and most of all around me! she was like: wow that stuff is really dangerous maybee you should be more careful! and she did not under stand that if that 230 grams of ap were any more dry that I not only would have been toast, but I would have been all over the place! I was lucky that it was still wet when it went off, it made a white halo sort of thing around the container it was in (a smoking piece of plastic)
blackadder
Frequent Poster
Posts: 313
From: London
Registered: DEC 2000
posted December 30, 2000 06:58 PM
Oh my God. That scares the living crap out of me. Shit! My God! I'm glad you're alive. That's why I make batches of AP in small amounts. My first batch was using 4ml of H202, and 4ml of Acetone, and 4 drops of HCl. Holy crap. Shit!!!! The size of that hole!!! My god. That will be a valuable lesson to me, and hopefully everyone else who is making AP and other explosives. When the AP detonated, didn't nearby neighbors come and check out what was going on?!
Cricket
Frequent Poster
Posts: 160
From: USA
Registered: OCT 2000
posted December 30, 2000 07:18 PM
Hey PYRO500, thats scarry and funny too. I can see your mom walking by and accidentally ashing her cigarette in a big pile AP. It blows up and she is all black and ashy looking with her hair all poking backwards and says hmmm I see why you like this stuff and keeps walking. In the mean time, your over in the corner of your black asky room twitching and spazing out and all burned up. My mom gets pissed when I throw little nuggets of AP into the stove and it rattles the dishhes. Try it, its fun. But you dont get nuggets unless you squeze the filter after you filter it. I would reccomend nuggets about the size of a pencil eracer, but not bigger until you know how loud it is. Its amazing how so little nugget can make a damn loud noise. And make sure your stove is about 300+*F. I have no heater and its always on, so I dont got to worry.
[This message has been edited by Cricket (edited December 30, 2000).]
10fingers
Frequent Poster
Posts: 411
From: USA
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 30, 2000 07:35 PM
Oh Wow! Glad you're alright. I had a similar accident happen to me with some HMTD putty. Never turn your back on this stuff, it will bite you. I am wondering, is your nail polish remover pure acetone? Another possibility is that their was some residual acid in the AP.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 30, 2000 08:41 PM
The room did a pretty good job of containing the noise so all the neighbours would of heard was a thump, which isn't unusual coming from my house!
Thinking about it, I did use some different (pink) NVR from the usual stuff I use which I think is pretty pure. I think I'll go back to my normal method with HCL which gives nice flaky crystals that I can rinse thoroughly. A pinch of bicarb of soda wouldn't go amiss either.
You're dead right about not turning your back and biting you, I was lucky not to get that lamp shade or one of the various bits of pointy metal on the desk in the back of my head.
PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1466
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 30, 2000 09:16 PM
now, I make many, many jars of ap at once (sepratly) once I made 6 mayo jars full with 30% h2o2! I sometimes dig small trenches and pour the stuff in ( an inch or two deep) damp and thow a burning ember or something in and watch the ultra-fast deflagration shoot a huge heat cloud up in the air (you know like when you look at a road in a hot summer day(looks like water)) I also today made a fae with a film canister of ap and a couple of small firecrackers (blackcats) I dont think it detonated but it made an awsome expanding fireball.the biggest ap explosion I made was a 1 pound bomb of ap in a container buried underground, it was loud!!!!! and it made a pretty big crater think that will set off some stubborn an?
J
Moderator
Posts: 602
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 31, 2000 09:24 AM
I'm glad you weren't hurt, and thanks for putting up the photos.
You can buy pure Acetone from the chemists, why use nail polish remover?
Also, where do you get your HCL? I know weak solution can be bought at B&Q, but it's so weak they don't even give the strength on the container.
J
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 31, 2000 11:45 AM
Apparently acetone from the chemist is very expensive. That spray washer stuff is a joke, any decent hcl will have a corrosive warning label. I get mine from a local DIY shop as "spirit of salts" industrial strenght drain un-blocker.
The cheap clear NVR from wilko's is practically pure acetone.
Cricket
Frequent Poster
Posts: 160
From: USA
Registered: OCT 2000
posted December 31, 2000 12:37 PM
Its called a mirage (it might be spelled right). I see them every where I drive, but not in the winter.
J
Moderator
Posts: 602
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 31, 2000 01:25 PM
It costs £0.69 for 50ml. Yes, this is expensive if you're making a lot. I still haven't made any AP, I want to know exactly what is going on in the reaction first. This means I'm going to study chemistry in my spare time (new years resolution!). I know chemistry up to GCSE level, as well as plenty of experience with pyro, but I'de like to know more before messing with HE's.
J
Cricket
Frequent Poster
Posts: 160
From: USA
Registered: OCT 2000
posted January 02, 2001 12:48 AM
Holy fuck up the ass! I just removed my AP (that I made on NY) from my T-shirt and put it in a cup. I took the filter and shook it out good, then shook it over the stove. It had a LOT more AP than I thought in it. I was completely engulfed in an exploding fireball. I have no hair on my right arm, some hair on my left arm, and a ¼" less hair on my head. I know it wasnt the brightest thing to do, but I thought there wasnt much left in the filter. Also, this was my ¹st time useing baking soda when washing my AP. It smells deliciously fruity! Now I can just store my AP in an empty box of baking soda and the pigs wont think much of it if I get raided.
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 30, 2000 05:13 PM
I had a bit of a close encounter with AP earlier this evening, hopefully it may convince people that AP can be very sensitive and unpredicatable.
I was out of hcl so I made a batch using 91% h2so4, I used 200ml of 6% h2o2 and 250ml nail varnish remover. The resulting AP was VERY fine and I was pleased with how much I'd got, I had about 40-50gm, I spread the shaving foam looking AP out only the filter cloth, put it on a newspaper, on a desk under the desk lamp.
I was sitting on the floor on the other side of the room spending hours gradually grinding up 1kg of NaClO3. (the AP was going to be for the detonator) All of a sudeen there was a god almighty explosion and I was plunged into darkness.
My first thought was the chlorate that I was grinding then I realised it couldn't have been that and it was the AP.
The lamp was the type on spring loaded arms with a steel cone shaped shade, it was only a few inches above the AP but at that distance it was barely warm to the hand.
The shockwave from the blast hadn't actually broekn the light bulb but had killed it, the hatch to the loft had also been blown open (weighs about 6 pounds).
I took a few pictures of the damage, the desk was totalled, the chair was under thedesk and had a hole in it, bitsof wood from the desk had gone through the carpet. The steel lamp shade had shot up, smashed a hole in the sloped part of the ceiling and then flew across the room.
It was a complete mess there were bits of everything all over the room and the ceiling and wall are full of holes from schrapnel.
Fortunately I was down low so I was unharmed aprt from ears that didn't stop ringing for an hour, I've also got plastering to do. On closer inspection, there are large cracks running the length of the room around the edge of the ceiling (that weren't there before) where the prety weak plaster ceiling has been pushed up. I was damn lucky the wondow less than 3ft from the AP didn't blow out.
Here's some pics:
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/spudguns_uk/damage.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/spudguns_uk/damage.jpg</a>
The overall scene, the stuff that looks like sawdust is plaster.
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/spudguns_uk/hole.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/spudguns_uk/hole.jpg</a>
The hole in the ceiling.
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/spudguns_uk/desk2.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/spudguns_uk/desk2.jpg</a>
The desk.
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/spudguns_uk/desk.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/spudguns_uk/desk.jpg</a>
The hole in the desk from underneath
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/spudguns_uk/lamp.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/spudguns_uk/lamp.jpg</a>
The twisted remains of the steel lampshade.
I something was seriously up with the AP to make it so sensitive, I washed it with cold water under the tap as usually but not so argressively as I was losing some AP through the filter cloth. Needless to say, I shan't be using h2so4 again and will be revising my method of making AP entirely. I'm surprised I didn't notice the AP starting to decompose but then I was pretyy invlove with grinding the chlorate and had the TV up pretty loud. I also wouldn't have expected the stuff to actually detonate considering how spread out it was. Just goes to show how unpredictable this kind of stuff can be.
Otherside
A new voice
Posts: 20
From: On the otherside
Registered: DEC 2000
posted December 30, 2000 05:25 PM
Damn...
Cricket
Frequent Poster
Posts: 160
From: USA
Registered: OCT 2000
posted December 30, 2000 06:01 PM
I would shit all over myself if that happened to me. Glad you survived man. Its amazing you didnt get messed up! Be carfuller. I dont even wash my AP, and have had no problem with sensitivety, but I definately will now.
PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1466
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 30, 2000 06:25 PM
the worst incident that happened to me was when I had a quarter pound of ap (damp) go off about 4 feet from me beacust my mom walked by and a cigarette butt from her cigarette fell off of the grill (grill wasnt being used) and hit the damp ap and made a huge fireball and scorched the front of my body, luckily I was wearing goggles.
needless to say I was very, very angry with my mom, she knows acetone is flammable and not to smoke near my stuff and most of all around me! she was like: wow that stuff is really dangerous maybee you should be more careful! and she did not under stand that if that 230 grams of ap were any more dry that I not only would have been toast, but I would have been all over the place! I was lucky that it was still wet when it went off, it made a white halo sort of thing around the container it was in (a smoking piece of plastic)
blackadder
Frequent Poster
Posts: 313
From: London
Registered: DEC 2000
posted December 30, 2000 06:58 PM
Oh my God. That scares the living crap out of me. Shit! My God! I'm glad you're alive. That's why I make batches of AP in small amounts. My first batch was using 4ml of H202, and 4ml of Acetone, and 4 drops of HCl. Holy crap. Shit!!!! The size of that hole!!! My god. That will be a valuable lesson to me, and hopefully everyone else who is making AP and other explosives. When the AP detonated, didn't nearby neighbors come and check out what was going on?!
Cricket
Frequent Poster
Posts: 160
From: USA
Registered: OCT 2000
posted December 30, 2000 07:18 PM
Hey PYRO500, thats scarry and funny too. I can see your mom walking by and accidentally ashing her cigarette in a big pile AP. It blows up and she is all black and ashy looking with her hair all poking backwards and says hmmm I see why you like this stuff and keeps walking. In the mean time, your over in the corner of your black asky room twitching and spazing out and all burned up. My mom gets pissed when I throw little nuggets of AP into the stove and it rattles the dishhes. Try it, its fun. But you dont get nuggets unless you squeze the filter after you filter it. I would reccomend nuggets about the size of a pencil eracer, but not bigger until you know how loud it is. Its amazing how so little nugget can make a damn loud noise. And make sure your stove is about 300+*F. I have no heater and its always on, so I dont got to worry.
[This message has been edited by Cricket (edited December 30, 2000).]
10fingers
Frequent Poster
Posts: 411
From: USA
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 30, 2000 07:35 PM
Oh Wow! Glad you're alright. I had a similar accident happen to me with some HMTD putty. Never turn your back on this stuff, it will bite you. I am wondering, is your nail polish remover pure acetone? Another possibility is that their was some residual acid in the AP.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 30, 2000 08:41 PM
The room did a pretty good job of containing the noise so all the neighbours would of heard was a thump, which isn't unusual coming from my house!
Thinking about it, I did use some different (pink) NVR from the usual stuff I use which I think is pretty pure. I think I'll go back to my normal method with HCL which gives nice flaky crystals that I can rinse thoroughly. A pinch of bicarb of soda wouldn't go amiss either.
You're dead right about not turning your back and biting you, I was lucky not to get that lamp shade or one of the various bits of pointy metal on the desk in the back of my head.
PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1466
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 30, 2000 09:16 PM
now, I make many, many jars of ap at once (sepratly) once I made 6 mayo jars full with 30% h2o2! I sometimes dig small trenches and pour the stuff in ( an inch or two deep) damp and thow a burning ember or something in and watch the ultra-fast deflagration shoot a huge heat cloud up in the air (you know like when you look at a road in a hot summer day(looks like water)) I also today made a fae with a film canister of ap and a couple of small firecrackers (blackcats) I dont think it detonated but it made an awsome expanding fireball.the biggest ap explosion I made was a 1 pound bomb of ap in a container buried underground, it was loud!!!!! and it made a pretty big crater think that will set off some stubborn an?
J
Moderator
Posts: 602
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 31, 2000 09:24 AM
I'm glad you weren't hurt, and thanks for putting up the photos.
You can buy pure Acetone from the chemists, why use nail polish remover?
Also, where do you get your HCL? I know weak solution can be bought at B&Q, but it's so weak they don't even give the strength on the container.
J
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 31, 2000 11:45 AM
Apparently acetone from the chemist is very expensive. That spray washer stuff is a joke, any decent hcl will have a corrosive warning label. I get mine from a local DIY shop as "spirit of salts" industrial strenght drain un-blocker.
The cheap clear NVR from wilko's is practically pure acetone.
Cricket
Frequent Poster
Posts: 160
From: USA
Registered: OCT 2000
posted December 31, 2000 12:37 PM
Its called a mirage (it might be spelled right). I see them every where I drive, but not in the winter.
J
Moderator
Posts: 602
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 31, 2000 01:25 PM
It costs £0.69 for 50ml. Yes, this is expensive if you're making a lot. I still haven't made any AP, I want to know exactly what is going on in the reaction first. This means I'm going to study chemistry in my spare time (new years resolution!). I know chemistry up to GCSE level, as well as plenty of experience with pyro, but I'de like to know more before messing with HE's.
J
Cricket
Frequent Poster
Posts: 160
From: USA
Registered: OCT 2000
posted January 02, 2001 12:48 AM
Holy fuck up the ass! I just removed my AP (that I made on NY) from my T-shirt and put it in a cup. I took the filter and shook it out good, then shook it over the stove. It had a LOT more AP than I thought in it. I was completely engulfed in an exploding fireball. I have no hair on my right arm, some hair on my left arm, and a ¼" less hair on my head. I know it wasnt the brightest thing to do, but I thought there wasnt much left in the filter. Also, this was my ¹st time useing baking soda when washing my AP. It smells deliciously fruity! Now I can just store my AP in an empty box of baking soda and the pigs wont think much of it if I get raided.