Optimizing Black Powder for cannons, mortars, or pyrotechnics

[keith]

I have been trying to think of a way to make my pyrodex slightly more powerfull. Smokeless powder doesnt work well in cannons and BP or Pyrodex isnt quite powerfull enough for wht I want.
What about adding something to Pyrodex or BP to increase its burn rate or power. AL might work given the high ratio of oxidizer to fuel that BP has.
Any ideas?

[Blackhawk]

If you are replacing C with Al you are just using flash powder, which would give you a much higher burn rate if that is what you want.

[keith]

No not replacing. Just adding some as I've noticed that many comps with Al seem to be fast burning. Flash powder is way too fash and does not create enough gass. I'm looking or something simple, an additive that does not need to be ball milled. My idea of the Al isn't good. I'm kinda in need of an idea from one of you guys cause I dont know much about making LE's like this.
With the maximum deflag rate of black powder being somewhere around 1,200 feet per second, and smokeless being somewhere around 5,000 feet per second(under pressure) I need something in the middle.

[gliper]

Try mixing smokless and black powder, if 5000 fps is from double based use single base. Other ideas metal + sulfer, I know (X)Cl03 + C and (X)Cl04 + C or C and S are faster than black powder, slower than smokless and give grater gas generation as with AN+ KNO3 + C.

Do not mix S with (X)Clo3 if you do make shure its basic (not asidic). S slows down the black powder reaction but gives greater gas output.

Seriosly thow millateries used black powder for like a thowsan years and now use double or triple base I am sure one of thows is fine for you.

[keith]

I'm 16yo so my $140 cannon barrel is alil too expensive for me to blow up. Smokeless powder(DB) contains NC and NG so I'm scared of it.
I think I'll try a mix of AANO.7 smokless and pyrodex. A ratio of 4:1 pyrodex:BDSP.
Any other ideas?
thx gliper

BTW my barrel is 2.5" OD x 1.5" ID x 48" long. Made from DOM high carbon steel. I think it holds somewhere around 85,000psi :)
I could probably use smokeless but.....

[Blackhawk]

I don't think there should be a problem with using DBSP, that is what regular weaponry uses and they have quite thin walled barrels, of course you are using a much heavier projectile with more powder, my advice is work your way up. Start with a very small amount of powder and build it up untill your projectile is firing at the speed/range that you want it to and keep it there, of course watching for any stress or damage to the barrel. Really if your projectile is tight fitting BP is fine, scince however you want such high speeds have a look here http://www.powerlabs.org/cannons.htm
They shot a golfball out of a steel tube cannon with 1/2" thick walls with 30g whistle powder and 200g NC, of course you would probably not use so much in yours ;)

[keith]

Yes I have seen that site and that cannon. My cannon is the same as that one but with a longer barrel. I doubt he used 200g of Nc as it would take up about 20 inches of barrel space!!! Ill have pics of my cannon in the cannons thread in improvised weapons forum in about a week so keep an eye on it. I'm not too worried about getting higher than 1000fps (thats what I'm getting now) but I'd like to know how to if I one day decide to load some hotter loads.

[Bert]

Keith-
Please describe exactly what your tube is made of and how the breach is sealed. I will then tell you how stupid you are for making a pipe bomb, or suggest something else in the unlikely event that you understand ordinance engineering well enough to be told anything else besides STOP THAT!

Blackhawk-
There's a lot of different steels out there. Thickness has nearly fuck-all to do with suitability to take high pressure in very fast pulses, particularly if you want to do it repeatedly.

All you other cannoneers-
The right steel for a cannon that fires projectiles ain't likely to be found in handy shapes at your junkyard unless they have a contract for de-milling artillery. Ever seen someone with a big piece of steel stuck in them? It's not pretty. The smell of hot steel burning the flesh it's embedded in is one you won't soon forget either.

[vulture]

If you're looking for something more powerful than blackpowder but with high gas output go for whistle mix. I must warn you though that my KClO3/C6H5COONa whistle mix always explodes, no matter if it has been pressed or not.

[Bert]

my KClO3/C6H5COONa whistle mix always explodes, no matter if it has been pressed or not
Try adding an additional 4% of petroleum jelly dissolved in warm lacquer thinner to your whistle mix. Granulate it through a coarse screen, allow it to dry and then press up a whistle out of the dried granules. BTW, whistle mix made with chlorate is a cap sensitive HE-

[vulture]

Thanks for the info bert, cap sensitive HE? :eek:

What strikes me is that it always explodes with a very sharp report, contrary to the deep thump of flashpowder. There's nothing to recover from the casings either.

Could it possibly make DDT?

[Bert]

It's possible- Without an accurate way to measure for vod, hard to say for sure. You probably allready know, but NEVER ram whistle mixes with a hammer and drift- Allways press them. They can take very high pressures when applied slowly. Take a crumb of whistle mix and tap it with a hammer on an anvil sometime. Wear your ear plugs.

[shooter3]

Your crazy if you try mixing ANYTHING with BP. Your cannon will blow up and probabley kill you or a by-stander.

Stick with smokeless or BP. One thing you can do is expiriment with smaller grains of either.

[gliper]

I have personaly mixed smokeless and black powders in alumanum foil raping. It burnt like black powder on its own but incinerated some of the foil.


I hope you dident mean black + smokeless powder burns faster than smokeless alone.

[Spoz]

I don't think there should be a problem with using DBSP, that is what regular weaponry uses and they have quite thin walled barrels, of course you are using a much heavier projectile with more powder, my advice is work your way up. Start with a very small amount of powder and build it up untill your projectile is firing at the speed/range that you want it to and keep it there, of course watching for any stress or damage to the barrel. Really if your projectile is tight fitting BP is fine, scince however you want such high speeds have a look here http://www.powerlabs.org/cannons.htm
They shot a golfball out of a steel tube cannon with 1/2" thick walls with 30g whistle powder and 200g NC, of course you would probably not use so much in yours ;)
The powerlabs cannon that you suggested, while very impressive it is very dangerous, it was created by someone who now has only 7 3/4 fingers left on his hands. Wonder why he hasnt done anything in his chemistry section lately? ;)

By the way, this is my first post, nice board you got here.

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Rhadon