petn by H2SO4 + AN

[nuclearattack]

hi

i'm making a search to get some pentaerythritol...yes i want to make some petn!

however i don't have hno3 so i'm interested to make petn using h2so4 with a nitrate, for example ammonium nitrate.

i searched a lot about petn synthesis but nobody talked about this procedure.
has anyone tried this procedure?
what about the ratios and the particulars to observe in this procedure?
i think lot of people is interested about this.

thanks for your help

[NightStalker]

I think NBK would bite your head off and spit it out for asking a question like this, watercooler or not. ;)

[Blackhawk]

-No capitols
-Lack of searching (well I can assume)

You can't even claim that your shift Key dosn't work as to make the symbol ! you would have to hold shift while simultaneously pushing the key 1, which seems strange to me as such complex tasks as pushing two buttons at once would surely be beyond a person who can't start a sentance with a capitol.

As for the moronic question, I am not very knowledgable n the HE field, but I assume it would be akin to asking if you could make RDX with HCl and xNO3, that is if you have not found anything after searching there is probably a good reason. Even if you could you are demanding answers off people which never goes down well:
"has anyone tried this procedure?
what about the ratios and the particulars to observe in this procedure?"
You could have at least asked if this was feasible and if so request a link that you could learn from, in proper English, and people would probably help you, now you have no chance.

[nuclearattack]

Sorry Blackhawk for the capitols.
About this procedure i searched a lot and i found a small web page where is written that is possible to make petn with the h2so4/kno3 method. The problem is that there isn't explained the full procedure, they don't say anything about it!
As you see someone else is interested about this method, to prove that, here you are a text taken from that webpage! Read that please! My question is not stupid, i have never made petn and i'm tring to acquire a lot of info before make it!
This is the text copied from the web:

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PETN
Note: this page isn't complete, i have more to add & upload - but i don't know when i'll do it.... i'm very lazy this summer. sorry guys.
PETN is a very brisant high explosive. It's my personal favourite: relatively easy to prepare, very high detonation velocity, not toxic and easy to initiate.
To produce PETN you need white nitric acid (HNO3 min 95% without nitric oxides) and pentaerythritol. Use about six times more HNO3 than pentaerythrite. (100g pentaerythrite, 400ml/600g HNO3)
It's also possible to use the H2SO4/KNO3 method, althoug NAOUM states that the product formed by nitration of pentaerythritol with "mixed acids" is "a tough product difficult to purify and of low stability". The NAOUM book is from 1928, the US patent 1,660,651 is from 1928, too. I observed no difficulties in purifying the product, but i can't say anything about the stability except my PETN didn't decompose/accidental detonated etc.
Further investigation should be done.......
-->
NAOUM & STETTBACHER both suggest to add an equal volume of H2SO4 to to precipate the PETN from the HNO3. URBANSKI (1963) states that is not good to do so because impurities are also precipated. If that is the only reason (seems so...) it shouldn't be the biggest problem to produce PETN with any method using H2SO4. Fine.
The only problem is the yield. Nitration of pentaerythrite with white nitric acid will give an almost theoretical yield:
1 mole pentaerythrite = 136,15g
1 mole PETN = 316,14g
316,14/136,15 = 2,32 - so 100g pentaerythrite will give about 232g PETN.
With the KNO3/H2SO4 method i had the following (documented) yields:
nitration of 5g pentaerythrite ---> 6,5g PETN = 56,03% yield of 11,6g theoretical (first time, documented in the forum)
nitration of 25g pentaerythrite ---> 47,5g PETN = 81,89% yield of 58g theoretical
nitration of 25g pentaerythrite ---> 42,2g PETN = 72,75% yield of 58g theoretical
nitration of 50g pentaerythrite ---> 75g PETN = 64,65% yield of 116g theoretical (only 45 minutes nitration)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, it seems that someone else tried this method!
Now what i need is only the full procedure with ratios and the PE, of course!

Another thing: why NBK would bite my head? I posted in the right section following the rules, so anybody bites anybody! I read worse post on water cooler and they aren't about explosives!
I think this is not a good attitude!

[Anthony]

It is possible to use H2SO4 and a nitrate to make PETN, in fact it's quite easy.

Search for our moderator Mr Cool, in his profile is a link to his homepage, there's a PETN synth like the one you are looking for there.

[Blackhawk]

Thats suprising, I thought that it required fuming Nitric acid (at least from reading KIBC) which you would not get through the H2SO4/xNO3 route, well you learn something new everyday don't you. The hardedt part would then be finding the pentaerythritol and suitable quality sulfuric (at least for me).

[vulture]

Am I the only one who thinks the watercooler is becoming the "spoonfeed-and-be-nice-to-the-kewls-section"?

Somebody ban this ignorant fuck, watercooler or not.

[Rhadon]

I read worse post on water cooler... You must have searched well.

The Water Cooler gives you some kind of freedom. Its purpose is to allow newbies to ask their questions. Since it takes significantly more time for other members to write a post than for you to do a search, we assume that you search before you ask. And the least thing you can do is to type up your post properly.

I already warned you twice. Do something stupid and you will get banned, be it outside the Water Cooler or not.

[vulture]

I won't bother replying to your lame flame mail.

I hope you like gay porn....