Favourite fuse

[Rhadon]

Favourite fuse

After the discussions regarding favourite flash powder and so on I thought it would be interesting to know how your favourite fuse is made. This is from interest for me because I'm now making my own firecrackers since half a year, and it can be quite frustrating when you risked making a really huge one from AP and it doesn't start just because the fuse doesn't reach your AP.
At the time I'm making my fuses just by rolling black powder into thin paper, but does anybody have a better method for which no KClO3/KClO4 is necessary?

[blackadder]

I've heard of getting a jar full of BP, and putting 2-4 drops of water in it. Then you put the string in the BP until all of the water is absorbed, and absorbs some of the BP inside the string as well.

[J]

The BP must be a thick slurry, and a few % Dextrin should be added if you don't want the fuse to crumble. Pull the string through a hole in some card for an even coating.

The good thing about this method is that you don't need good BP. Green mix will work if the chemicals are finely ground.

J

[SofaKing]

THe BeAsT fUUz Is LIk dAT sTRinG An ThE Gas

Sorry I had to do it http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smile.gif

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"ARE YOUR PAPERS IN ORDER" -- Jack Booted Thug

[NightStalker]

look for my topic "perfect homemade fuse", some good ideas were discussed there...

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Death stalks silently....

[mark]

Whats green powder?

[vehemt]

Green meal is black powder before it has been pressed and corned. Its essentially kno3, sulfur and charcoal mechanically mixed (ballmilled most of the time).
Actual blackpowder is green meal thats been pressed into cakes then broken up into granules.

[Anthony]

"Green meal" is the compnents of BP roughly mixed together, after it's been ball-milled then it is "meal powder", press into cakes and break break it up into grains and it has been "corned".

[-CossaC-]

I don't really see the point in making fuses, just stock up on sparklers on guy fawkes day(for the poms and the kiwis) and 4th of july(for the Yanks)....no offence intended http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smile.gif

Sparklers or almost impossible to put out, so they are very reliable, and can have a delay of 40secs...they are also cheap.

~Ço§§aÇ~

[CragHack]

i am a big fan of the electrical igniton. very stable, very precise. a nicrome wire at the end of 20' of wire and a 6vold battery. hook a toggle switch up and you are all set. it goes when you want it to. no sooner no later.

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...Æ

[Agent Blak]

Sparklers? you can put those out with a a bit of water(H2O) I have also found that they are hard to light(with a Dispoable) and in the Winter they don't burn that well. They also draw a lot of attention.



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A wise man once said:
"... As He Waits For The Time When The Last Become First And,
The First Shall Become last"
--RATM

Agent Blak-------OUT!!

[J]

Not to mention the cost. Also, sparklers have a solid metal core, which is unacceptable in pyro. What if instead of bursting the case, your salute spat the metal core out at high velocity? If you've used salutes before, you'll probably have noticed that the fuse is often chucked far away from the cracker before it's even burnt out.

The sparkler composition could probably be removed, made into a slurry, and coated on a string. It would last longer this way as well as being safer.

J

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"If the aquarium water has to be drunk don't waste the fish. In fact they'll probably be the easiest to eat even if you don't need the water. The cat is next in the pot." - John 'Lofty' Wiseman

[Anthony]

Sparklers aren't flexible so you've got a rigid stick making your cracker considerably longer. They may be alright for basic fireworks but they are unsuitable for more advanced kinds of fireworks.

While I would gladly use electrical ignition/det for big/precision blasts, if you've got a load of salutes you want to light and throw about a fuse is much simpler and faster.

[Agent Blak]

I like the Straw method of NightStalker. Also There is a mthod for making a core-burning fuse with facial tissue. I have heard of good results; Plus you can coat it with a Laquer to water proof it. I will give more details if you are interested.
The Website was something like "Dexter's Pyro Page," nice layout etc. There is also other useful info.

------------------
A wise man once said:
"... As He Waits For The Time When The Last Become First And,
The First Shall Become last"
--RATM

Agent Blak-------OUT!!

[Foodos]

since this was formerly on green meal (rather then open a new topic)...

You can't use green meal alone as being 'black powder' because its not intimently mixed enough? is that why it needs to be pressed, or ball milled, or even precipitated to become mixed enough for it to become the black powder?

[Anthony]

Yes, greenmeal is just the roughly mixed ingredients of BP it is used for some fountains and can be used for fuse due to it's slow burn rate.

You ball mill it to mix it very intmately and increase the burn rate drastically, this is now meal powder.

Finally you press the meal powder into cakes and then break it up into grains, this further increases the burn rate and also makes it much less messy.

[MacCleod]

I've been working on a fuse mix that uses smokeless powder as a binder;these two mixes work well:
1/2 teaspoon potassium nitrate
1/2 teaspoon confectioners sugar
3/8th. teaspoon smokeless
1/32nd. teaspoon aluminum powder (optional)
Add just enough acetone to melt the smokeless,mix thoroughly.Then roll into 1/8th. in. thick strips,dry on alum. foil.Burns hotter with addition of alum.,but works equally well without it.Or:
1 teaspoon crushed,powdered match heads
1/2 teaspoon smokeless.
Mix same as above.
If the mix is thinned enough,you can pass it through a liquid med.'s syringe,making nice,even sections of fuse.

[J]

Sounds like a good idea :-) If you leave the fuse out of a container, does it get damp after a week or so? I only ask, because it contains sugar.

Also, IIRC pressing the BP doesn't necesarily make it faster, just gives it a more uniform burn rate. I've seen tables of different grades of BP, and meal powder is generally the fastest if made properly.

J

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"If the aquarium water has to be drunk don't waste the fish. In fact they'll probably be the easiest to eat even if you don't need the water. The cat is next in the pot." - John 'Lofty' Wiseman

[Mr Cool]

www.ctel.net/~dwilliams (http://www.ctel.net/~dwilliams) has a good method for making a sort of thermalite, and many other useful things.

I either buy fuse from skylighter or make blackmatch using H3 or meal powder.

For the electrical ignitors: coat the nicrome in BP/Dextrin/water paste and let it dry. It's more reliable for setting off rockets and other harder to light things.

[Anthony]

I had read that when you dampen the meal powder, the KNO3 dissolves and then when pressed the water is squeezed out and the KNO3 re-cyrstalises, except that because of the pressure being exerted on it, the only place it can crystalise is actually insidet he pores of the charcoal, giving a very intimate mix.

[MacCleod]

I've kept a sample of each sitting on a paper plate for about three weeks now and they're still nice and dry.The plasticizers in the SP seem to waterproofing the chemicals nicely.I had to tinker with the ratios awhile;too much smokeless and the fuse won't stay lit.I'm working on a few other mixes,including some with KCl03,I'll post the results when I'm done.
Oh,I forgot to mention:I drilled 1/8th. inch holes in particle board to see if the fuses would burn through(without extinguishing);both worked well.

[This message has been edited by MacCleod (edited February 07, 2001).]

[Agent Blak]

That is a good test a better one is to see if it will still if it will burn through hot glue, or Wax.



------------------
A wise man once said:
"... As He Waits For The Time When The Last Become First And,
The First Shall Become last"
--RATM

Agent Blak-------OUT!!

[J]

I've also heard this about BP, I think I'll do some more research on this. I know that for firearms it's important to have a consistent burn rate in order to determine correct propellent weights. Also in firearms if the powder burns too fast this can damage the gun, this is why I think even fine grades of pressed BP are generally slower than good meal.

An even better (or should I say tougher) test is to see if it will burn through dried fibreglass resin/epoxy. I've found that this stuff will ruin the fuse where is comes into contact, with blackmatch and it's variants anyway. Visco is fine.

J

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"If the aquarium water has to be drunk don't waste the fish. In fact they'll probably be the easiest to eat even if you don't need the water. The cat is next in the pot." - John 'Lofty' Wiseman

[Mr Cool]

If you think you've got really good fuse, see if it'll burn through a very tight hole in some 0.5" Al sheet. This stuff should cool it down, and put out fuses that aren't really strong. I've never tried it, but it might be interesting as a test.

As for the thing about pressing damp meal powder to crystalise the KNO3, I don't think it's true. You only add about 3-4ml of water per 100g of meal powder, and that'd only be enough to dissolve a few milligrams of KNO3, which would make little difference.

[Anthony]

Fair enough, it was only someones else's word I was going on, it must be for the reasons J mentioned.

[MacCleod]

I tried KCl03/sugar/smokeless today (1/2-1/2-1/4);burned way hotter,but with a large flame-it shot off the workbench!.I'll give the successful batches the 'epoxy' test tonight.

[frostfire]

just read Stalker's straw fuse....

Beware!, I made that kind of exact fuse 5 months ago, I test the fuse alone (with many variations between KNO3, sugar, S, KCLO3 etc)
and it went really really well, even when the straw is wet
Well, guess what, put it on an AP putty, lit and BOOM in femtoseconds, almost lose my right hand......man, a straw MELTS! again it melts...so if you'd have to make it make sure to plug it from underneath or paralel with your explosive

[CragHack]

i would suggest, unless you have alot of experiance making fuses with consistant burn rates, that before you strap a homeade fuse to an actual explosive you buy them. use ones with proven burn rates. 10 dollars plus a few for shipping and handling is a very small price to pay for the use of your right hand. http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smile.gif

if you insist on using homeade fuse get a method down first. try and try and try again to get the same burn rates on all of your fuses. if you are to impatient to do this, buy it. don't just make a fuse cause someone else told you how to make it. even though they say it has a good burn rate, you might have fucked up the process somewhere. and this oculd result in losing something that you shouldn't have.

if all else fails use electronics to detonate your explosisives. this is the safest way in my opinion.

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...Æ

[MacCleod]

I have to agree with CragHack;in fact I was kinda negligent for not mentioning it in my posts.I wouldn't want anyone trying something I posted,and then getting hurt!.I only tinkered with these to come up with a cheap fuse to test pyro comp.'s with (flash powders,smokes,etc.),so I could save my visco for more important things.That's not to say reliable home-brewed fuses are impossible(I've tested the 1st.two mixes several times with consistent results),I just wouldn't stake my life on them.That being said,I'm off to do some burn-thru tests (epoxy,wax).

[J]

Yes, it's very important to thoroughly test fuses, especially improvised ones. If you can, stick to blackmatch, as it's been well used and I haven't heard of many faults. I have the method on my site.

One word of warning about Visco though. I've had the NC layer on the outside of the fuse light instead of the BP inside and flash down. While this didn't make the salute explode, a loose pile of composition would certainly have ignited.

J

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"If the aquarium water has to be drunk don't waste the fish. In fact they'll probably be the easiest to eat even if you don't need the water. The cat is next in the pot." - John 'Lofty' Wiseman

[MacCleod]

Burn-thru tests were successful with the 3 mixes posted above.Each easily passed through 1/8th.inch layer of epoxy,3/16th. inch layer of wax (I put the fuse segments through 1/8th. cardboard, put 1/4 in. sections of spiral craft tubing around each one,then poured epoxy/wax in around the fuse).So as not to confuse,I did do two seperate boards for wax,epoxy;didnt make that very clear above!

[firebreether]

I prefer electric ignition for a couple reasons
1 You can set it off exactly, no worrying about lighting the fuse and having someone walk by on the path where I do my shit and having a bomb or something ignite by them. I wouldn't want that.

2 You can seal the salute or whatever with epoxy where the wires go in so that it is airtight, so you don't have confinement probs

The way I do it is with a steel wool wire linked to a long wire and stuck in. Either several AA batteries to light it or a flash generator from a camera (higher Voltage discharge = more intense flash from steel wool.) http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/biggrin.gif

[This message has been edited by firebreether (edited February 13, 2001).]

[J]

The problems with electrical ignition are: It's inconvenient, wiring up a new ignitor every time you want to use a salute is tedious! Then there's the trailing wire. Also, there's the possibility of an accident if you forget to switch off your PSU before wiring up the next ignitor, or if the circuit malfunctions (broken/dirty switch, loose connection).

Confinement shouldn't be a problem if you make the salute correctly.

I'm not against it, but I'm just giving the disadvantages. In some applications it is certainly better than fuse.

J

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"If the aquarium water has to be drunk don't waste the fish. In fact they'll probably be the easiest to eat even if you don't need the water. The cat is next in the pot." - John 'Lofty' Wiseman

[blackadder]

I am a fan of electrical ingition, but I am sure you will agree, that for small explosive devices such as M80's it is easier to light the fuse and chuck it somewhere, instead of hooking up wires and shit.

I only use electrical ignition for big devices, like big pipebombs, etc.

[firebreether]

Yeah, this is true, but for those biggies its basically a must, since you would need a big ass fuse anyway, why not just hook up a long wire?

[PYRO500]

yeah plus wire is usualy cheaper and may be reused if it is heavy enough

[blackadder]

Another thing about electrical detonation, is that if you are hiding in the bush about to blow up the bomb and a pig just decides to walk past, then you simply don't press the detonator, but if you had a fuse then you wouldn't have enough time to put out the fuse.

Another thing about this, is that you can only run so far, but with electrical detonation, you can be miles away from the bomb.

Also, you can blow the bomb up without being noticed. If someone sees you pressing a little button they will be less suspicious than they would if they saw you lighting a fuse and running away...

[firebreether]

But a mile long wire is impractical, then you would mabe use a remote controller to set it off instead of rigging up wire. That could work right??

[This message has been edited by firebreether (edited February 14, 2001).]

[Cricket]

If I understand you correctly, yes they have remote detonators. Just as they have remote controls for the TV (fuck I dont even have one of them and I have 2 TVs). Shit, everything is remote now a days. I like it. The way they are improvised (the quickest way) usually it to take a car, or other remote controlled toy, and hook the wires to the motor up to an electrical detonator. Sounds easy, but with my expirence, I would rather use a fuse (unless I plan to blow the holy fuck out of an abandoned building with a half a 55gallon drum of ANFO) on most things.

[vehemt]

Beware of stray rf interference. Dont want anything blowing too soon.

[Cricket]

Yea! In the Army and commercially when they do that, they are supposed to wrap the wires arround eachother to fix that problem. When I was coming home from scantions Sunday, the guy driving me was in Nam. He said when a new guy was learning how to set up claymores, they were always tought to keep the switch completely unhooked from the claymore until you are done. They would do it wright when people were watching. But sometimes someone didnt care and would hook everything together while fucking with it. The guys would have the switch right under their ass while squatting down. The detonator would be on the ground next to them. So he would walk up behind him and step in the switch and it apperently "...splattered their ass with that metal. Ya know that stings." That sounds like a lesson to be learned pretty quick.

[This message has been edited by Cricket (edited February 14, 2001).]

[PHILOU Zrealone]

I do fuses with:
-those thin plastic pipes used for drinks; I put some kind of BP in it.(or detonating substances for a detonator
Diameters are like 2mm for 30cm long or 5mm for 15cm, 30cm and 50cm.
-those Cristal pipe made of flexible PVC; diameter is 5mm for all lenghts.....with BP also
-incense is good too
-cigarettes also!.

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"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"

[Mick]

i used a cigarette for a fuse once...such a waste..got all the way down to the filter(which i had removed, and filled the space with AP) and then went out...

and well..cigarettes just ain't cheap in OZ..so i was rather pissed..

i've never used insence before..i might give a go tomorrow acctually...

[PYRO500]

alot of fireworks stores carry what they call punk sticks basicly all they are is sawdus incence and they often give them away they are for lighting fuses without burning your fingers, you light one blow it out and they burn for a while, sometimes if they are old they go out early (probably from the humidity around here) but you could remedy that by drying them on al foil in the oven

[BoB-]

I used to steal my moms cigarettes for mischeif, I would tape a firecracker to the filter and secure the fuse to the ciggarete with some thread, then we would light the ciggarette and toss um in peoples backyards and other fun places.

The ashes that fall off incense are really hot.

[blackadder]

I love incence, I burn tons of the stuff.


For a ciggy fuse, one would remove the filter, so you have a long white thing. Then at one end of the white thing, put some BP on it. You should test a couple out before you use them for your actual devices.

[firebreether]

Does anyone use a chlorate/ perchlorate for fuse or would it burn too quickly? I was thinking - dissolving NaClO3 and sugar in water and dipping shoelaces or something absorbent in it. When it dries the chlorate and sugar would be deposited in the shoelace for the fuse.

[zaibatsu]

I have started to use Chlorate fuse, I've been testing some things, and I wouldn't use NaClO3 and sugar, as they are both very hydroscopic. I tried to soak a piece of relatively thick cotton string in a saturated solution of NaClO3, but when it burned, it formed big lumps of NaCl and the fuse didn't burn very well.

However, i guess you are getting the NaClO3 from weedkiller right? Well, i tried a method described on J's page ( www.connect.to/juice (http://www.connect.to/juice) ) and look at the TP rocket bit. All I have done is make a saturated solution of NaClO3/NaCl weedkiller, and then pour this over sheets of kitchen roll. I take a 4cm wide strip, and then just roll it up tight. I've found that it burns reliably at a rate of 1.5cm/s, and leaves little residue, only ash.

So I usually do 12cmx4cm strips, and these have a burn rate of 8 seconds. I find it is best to give a long time on homemade fuses. I like these fuses, it is so damn cheap to make them!! It uses very little weedkiller, and you could make so many! The reason I suggest kitchen roll is that it is stronger than toilet paper.

Although if you are going to do anything seriously big, never use homemade fuse, and I personally would say never use fuse. I would go for electrical ignition.

Oh, and another reason I don't like using sugar is because its sticky when wet.

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Handguns don't kill people... Half as well as full-auto
Visit me at www.surf.to/eliteforum (http://www.surf.to/eliteforum)

[JB]

I've been making large amounts of fast burning hemp rope fuse by mixing it with sodium chlorate and methylated spirits or isopropanol alcohol . This is only a substitute until I get hold of the Firefox safety fuse.

The procedures I take for this is to pour 150ml of methylated spirits or anti-freeze into a glass jar, then add 2 or 3 desert spoon fulls of sodium chlorate. Give it a quick stir. Then add 20"-30" of hemp rope, giving this a stir round. Cap the jar and give it a shake for a couple of minuites then leave on a shelf for an hour. Take the hemp rope out of the jar and place on a piece of cardboard or wood, then leave under a radiator (or drape it over the radiator) over night. It will have a stiff feel to the rope and usually a good constant burn rate. Now I strap a match to the end of the fuse with thread to that the match just needs to be stiked and the fuse is instantly lit, rather than fumbling about with a lighter.

I have not tried using KN03 yet because it costs me £11.25 a 500g tub http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/frown.gif so I tend to spare it. It may be advisable to keep these in air tight containers because mine go damp after a few weeks of open exposure. The reason I use this method is because have so much hemp rope and chlorate to use. Though I do agree with Firebreather that electric ignition is prefered.

[firebreether]

good ideas. thanks. I will try what it says on Js site - 50 % NaClO3, 45 % charcoal, 5 % dextrin. I will also try just NaClO3 in water hten poured on TP like he says for rockets. I will make rockets and also fuse with this and see what is best. Also some H3 or flash or KClO3/sugar mix to make med. sized firecrackers. very soon.......very soon......

[This message has been edited by firebreether (edited March 18, 2001).]

[firebreether]

Crap!! I stopped in at my neighborhood garden store - Metzler's, and looked around. Only to find that they didn't have any chlorate weedkiller. At least I don't think so. I saw only one bag of weedkiller and it was labelled something like 4 % d4 or 4d idont remember which. And 96 % inert ingredients. I thought chlorate was the active ingredient so i assume that this doesn't have any in it. Also, since i couldn't get any weedkiller SC, I looked for some AN. And guess what, they didn't have any. All the fertilizers there were derived from urea, and not even pure. Most had ammonium phosphate mixed in. So that was a total waste. Maybe I'll try Home Depot or something. Any ideas if the SC was listed as an inert ingredient?

[Anthony]

Sorry to tell you this, but you can't get sodium chlorate in the US, it's as common as muck here in the UK though...

[firebreether]

Yeah, too bad for me. Maybe I will make a chlorate cell (maybe) and then I'll have next to free chlorate. maybe. hopefully. Someday.

[J]

Firebreether, I did not say NaClO3/C/Dextrin, I said KClO3/C/Dextrin! You will have a hard time drying it if you use NaClO3 as a substitute, and the end result will be hygroscopic. It is very easy to convert NaClO3 to KClO3, that info's also on my site.

Isn't NaClO3 meant to be available from welding stores in the US? Maybe it's just a crapbook legend.

J

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"If the aquarium water has to be drunk don't waste the fish. In fact they'll probably be the easiest to eat even if you don't need the water. The cat is next in the pot." - John 'Lofty' Wiseman

[Mr Cool]

Yeah, there are times when living in England has it's good points. Cheap, common NaClO3, KNO3, NH4NO3 and hexamine, and you can get into pubs & clubs when you're 15, as long as you're tall and don't look like a teenager.

[Donutty]

Aint it crazy!!

In the US you get all the guns, fuse etc etc, whereas in the UK this is a 'no-no'

But we have NaClO3... yet you can't get the stuff. What a wierd world we live in

[Anthony]

Russia - too cold, crap cars, generally piss poor.

Middle East - yeah right, I'm going to live in a country that chops your penis off for stealing a loaf of bread.

[Agent Blak]

Russian climate is quite similiar to that of Canada abd probabley scandinavia(SP?). Also if you are willing to pay the money and not fuck around you can get anything you want through the Russian Mob...ANYTHING!!!
Plus i would rather live qwhere it is cold than where it is hot and humid; just can't stand having my nut stuck to my leg for 2 weeks like when I went to ontario on summer. The cold really is not that bad and, it is not like is cold all year round. what are the restriction on things in The Soviet Union(USSR)?

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A wise man once said:
"...I Am Not Much of a Dancer But,
Just Wait Till The Fucking Begins"

Agent Blak-------OUT!!

[Teck]

I lived in Russia and to get the chemicals you needed all you had to do was go down to the local pharmacy and order anything you wanted. Me and my friends always bought Potassium Permanganate at the pharmacy and when a kid comes up to them and asks for that stuff they already know what your up to, they tell you to be carful you pay them and leave. Then we would go to the scrap yard get some aluminum scrap, and file it down to some coarse flakes, mix it with Potassium Permanganate then put it all in a metal can. Wrap it with so much newspapers and tape that it looks like a basket ball with a match head fuse sticking out then go to a field and blow it up. We never even though that mixing Potassium Permanganate with aluminum as being dangerous and unstable like everyone dramatizes it on this forum and in literature. This is the most common explosive anyone makes in Russia.

The only thing they use for fertilizing is Ammonium Nitrate not some crap they sell at Home Depot in bags that have like only 40% of AN. To get Potassium Nitrate all you had to do is go down to the local butcher (its used for treating meat) and get it.

I remember my dad blowing up stumps on our villa in Russia near Caspian Sea for our second house. He went down to the the local quarry and bought some stick powder or dynamite (I remember it was a box with brown wrapped sticks of something with fuse) I dont know what they used in the sticks. Back then there wasnt as much laws on explosives as probably now. That was around 1985.
Here in Alaska you can buy binary explosives to clear your land of stumps and all you have to do is fill out some papers and they sell it to you with out any hassle, my neighbor was clearing a small airfield with that stuff last summer.

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"When I think of all the victims killed during nitroglycerine explosions, and the terrible havoc that has been wreaked, which in all probability will continue to occur in the future, I am almost ashamed to admit to be its discoverer." Ascanio Sobrero mid 1800s

[This message has been edited by Teck (edited March 27, 2001).]

[ddog]

Since this used to be on black powder and green powder, lemme ask this. How efficiently is the burn rate affected when you press the powder int cakes and crumble it again,. How much pounds is used for this?

[mark]

Would it be possible to make either fuse or wic from stronium nitrate roadflare comp? The stuff burns nice and slow, and is quite spectacular. Could blackmatch type fuse be made with this stuff? How bout that straw fuse?