Nazi Germany

[MrMagnum]

Please tell your opinion about Nazi Germany! And tell your opinion about today's Germany!

[IDTB]

I respect good ol' Nazi Germany. I honestly don't believe the whole six million jews crap, but I'd rather not go into that to avoid controversy. They're disapproved of for being ruthless during war, but... IS WAR NOT RUTHLESS?

Today's Germany has no honor. Even if The Third Reich was as horrible as is said(which I doubt) they should still honor their past. They shouldn't ban the swastika, but acknowledge it as a key symbol in their history.(and it's other symbolic uses it held)

Now, if this thread recieves more attention perhaps I'll expand. I'm also interested in other forumites opinion. :D

[DimmuJesus]

Nazi Germany had many high points. As crazy as Hitler proved to be, first the first time in a long while people had food on their tables and a sense of hope. Art and culture flourished. I also agree that what we are fed about the holocaust is exaggerated at the very least.

Modern Germany I only know about based on conversations with Germans. I've heard many pros and cons. Overall, it almost sounds like a better alternative to the US. I've been told also by a German friend that they get a lot of prejudice based on Nazi Germany, things that have happened often before the were even born. Plus, even if the holocaust did happen, it was kept hidden from the German people and was in no way their fault. Just like with the situation with the US today, one shouldn't judge somebody by the actions of their government.

[knowledgehungry]

Germany has less freedom than the US both Nazi Germany and modern Germany any country that takes away rights sucks.

[Voyager]

Nazi Germany persecuted intellectuals such as Einstein, Freud, and Hayek. If they had not lost the war so badly, this alone would have eventually destroyed them. Every civilization relies upon it's best and it's brightest.

The Nazi's failed to accept responsibility for their actions, and instead chose scapegoats for all of their troubles. The Nazi's weren't men enough to stand up to responsibility, and instead they blamed everything that they screwed up on the Jews. That's pathetic and weak.

The Nazi's were socialists who had no respect for individual rights. That's not the world I want to live in.

And, most of all, the Nazi's got their little butts kicked so hard that they are still hurting.

What morons -- to fight a war with the United States of America. That was suicidally dumb.

[Cyclonite]

The US didnt really have a large impact in WWII. Im sure every little bit helps but I think most of the credit should be placed elsewhere.

[demo]

Nazis are always bad, but it dosnt mean that germany in modern times is a bad ass.I bet the germans are ashamed of it, as we are.. like the japanese to china.
Sorry for my bad english ,im not in an english country.

[Blackhawk]

The US were only in the last years of the war, and Germany didn't initiate you to fight, it was the Japanese.

[nesler]

In response to Cyclonite, saying that the US had little affect upon the war is insane. Germany and Japan would have won WWII if the US hadn't entered the war after Pearl Harbor. Britain's resources had been nearly exhausted by late '41, and Germany was kicking ass all over the place. Who the hell else could have stopped them? And even then, if it hadn't been for Hitler's egomania totally screwing up his country's military strategy, it's pretty possible that Europe would have been lost to Germany.

And in response to Voyager, while the Nazi's persecuted some intellectuals, I think those instances stated by you had more to do with race than anything else (One specific instance--Einstein was Jewish and fled because of what was happening regarding the Jews). Germany was actually sucking up the intellectuals like freaking mad. Christ, Russia was using jet engine technology developed in Nazi Germany well into the 70s, if I recall correctly. Then after the war ended, the US sucked them all up--especially those that had worked in the weapons, aircraft, and medical fields.

In short, Germany was really, really good at technological innovations, but had some issues in the human rights department, Germans and Jews alike. It would have been really interesting to see what would have become of Germany had it won the war, but I honestly think that it would have collapsed in a few decades, with increasing amounts of money being siphoned away from the populace to fund military and governmental projects, similar to what occured in the USSR in the 80s.

(A little aside: Walt Disney hired two former high-ranking Nazis. Warner von Braun--mentioned in the movie "October Sky"--who was one of the highest ranking rocket scientists in Germany (apparently, somewhere around 20,000 slave laborers died in his rocket factory), and Heinz Haber, who conducted research on high-speed/altitude flight for the Luftwaffe Institute for Aviation Medicine (lots of live human subjects used in tests--dissected afterwards). They served as the key advisors for the creation of Tomorrowland, designed a ride simulating a ride to the moon, and together co-hosted two different Disney television shows: "Our Friend the Atom," and "Man in Space.")

[Cyclonite]

Sure, the US may have been the straw that broke the Nazis back but most of the progress in defeating nazi Germany was not made by US. Other countries made much larger contributions and were fighting for much longer....

[MrSamosa]

Nazi Germany was too idealistic, in my humble opinion. They should have worked to clean their own house first before occupying everyone else's... Maybe Hitler was a bit egotistical, as his invasion of Russia was a big mistake. I don't know what Goering was thinking either, with his stupid strategy of bombing Britain into submission, and losing the Luftwaffe in the process. I do believe that Britain could have defeated Nazi Germany with just the help of Russia, but the war would have been longer and bloodier. Hitler's strategy was based on the Luftwaffe, and to have it lost over Britain was a terrible mistake. Remember, no one has successfuly invaded England since the Normans in 1066.

Germany today is better than Nazi Germany, in that you don't have the fear of going to a concentration camp. By the way, everyone knew about concentration camps, just not what was going on inside them. If you ever see the movie The Great Dictator by Charlie Chaplain, "Ado Hynkel" says to Commander Shultz-- "Cmdr. Shultz, I think you need a vacation, some fresh air... I'm sending you to a concentration camp." When they showed the scene inside the camp, they just showed people goose-footing back and forth; a very innocent view of the whole thing.

I don't agree with Germany's ban on any political party or Nazi symbols or on "hate" websites, as that infringes on free speech and civil liberty. That's what I fear happening in the US.

[bobo]

The nazis might have won had they been a little less in the racial supremacy business. There were potential allies in the eastern europe who would have fought against the commies gladly, after being trampled by Stalin and those other nice people. Too many enemies were made with the stubborn ubermensch thing.

On the other hand, the unification of Europe was a good thing. The french deserved german tanks rolling through the arc de triomphe more than any other country deserved what happened in that war. There were damn good reasons for starting it all, and the blame of WWII can be led to Versailles directly.

Had nazism prevailed, the horror of communism would have been spared the other half of the world who are at this time slowly recuperating from the red repression. It is even the question what the US had done if the nazis had simply wiped out communism and carved themselves an empire. Probably they'd have celebrated.

[vulture]

Germany has less freedom than the US both Nazi Germany and modern Germany any country that takes away rights sucks.


Like the US doesn't take away rights. Dream on. :rolleyes:

Have you ever been to germany?

Hitler made two big mistakes that would eventually bring Germany on to it's knees.
1) Invading Russia in the winter & letting the Italians handle the Yugoslavs.
He choose the worst time of the year to invade Russia and the same scenario as Napoleon encountered repeated itself: Guerrilia style attacks in the freezing cold.

Furthermore, a rather large division had to cut off to the south to help the Italians who were screwing up things badly in Yugoslavia.

2) Like Samosa said, trying to invade Britain was a stupid idea. Had the luftwaffe spent the effort on the development of better V weapons, they could have just bombed the fuck out of Britain without having to risk pilots and planes. If the luftwaffe wouldn't have suffered so many losses over Britain, D-Day would have been hell for the americans.
There was little or no air support for the defenses at Normandy.

I like todays Germany. Friendly people which, possibly because of the burden of WWII, are allergic to propaganda and hatemongering. Also, Germany probably is the most relaxed country when it comes to acquiring chemicals or lab material. Ebay germany has gigantic section full of competitive priced labstuff, no questions asked.

[Guerilla]

Germany and Japan would have won WWII if the US hadn't entered the war after Pearl Harbor. Britain's resources had been nearly exhausted by late '41, and Germany was kicking ass all over the place
What about soviets? German 6th army had already stucked in Stalingrad and was encountering constantly strengthening resistance and the Axis' strongholds in North-Africa (El Alamei) were also weakening under english pressure before the US troops were even in Africa. Im not dismissing americans, but its still hard to consider the US as a saving angel coming to liberate Europe from inevitable destruction. They did their part, but the truth is the thickest steel was already worn out when the US stepped in Europe.

[daysleeper]

I think Nazi Germany was what we should all inspire to be. Hiter got his nation/people out of the unemployment slump
revitalized the national/racial spirit, promoted clean healthy life styles, strong families, good morals, and all without the
need for being any specific religion.

Hitler did not require one to be German blood to be accepted into the Reich, but you did have to be white/european/aryan/ whatever you choose to use. European blood was European blood. But he did consider the German culture to be superior.
And wanted to keep the German culture the only culture is Germany proper.

Before the opinion that National Socialism is bad or good, one must first ask, what is the purpose of the government?
What is the goal of the racial state, and of nature in general?

I think that National Socialism best provides for the interest of the racial state and the advancement of the people on a biological and cultural level, hence promoting of eugenics and the improvement upon the race, to the next level of evolution.

All these people claiming that modern germany is free and the rest of the world is free because the Nazi's were stopped, are morons in the purest meaning of the word.

Example, in Germany there is no free speech, atleast when it comes to questioning the jews or historical "facts". If you say in Germany that the holocaust is a lie, you will got to prison for 3 years minimum. If you openly sing a National Socialist song in Germany, you will go to prison. If you even call a jew a jew, you go to prison, even if you were only identifyng him as such and not critizing him at all.

And these BS laws are inplace in Canada as well. And with the jewish lobbies in the USA pushing for these laws, it won't be long before no one can ever criticize the jews or even question their motives. What makes the jews so special as to be above criticizing, even when the evidence is plain to see? I ask this because these laws in Germany only protect the jews! And no one else. There are milliions of non european immigrants in Germany, but the anti-hate laws only protect the jews, and hurt the Germans, same thing in Canada.

[daysleeper]

Sorry to double post, but here is an article I found about modern Germany, It supports the things I was saying in my last post
But it has better references and more complete information to move the thread along, hope it si not to long.

Program of 4th December, 1993 WHY NO FREE SPEECH IN GERMANY?

A month ago an American engineer from Massachusetts, Fred Leuchter, was arrested by the German secret police in Cologne, Germany. He had been invited by a German TV station to talk about his 1988 investigation of the gas chambers in the former concentration camp at Auschwitz, Poland. Mr. Leuchter, whose profession is designing gas chambers and other lethal devices for prisons, had been hired as an expert witness in a legal case in which it was alleged that the defendant had lied in alleging that 4 million Jewish prisoners weren't killed in gas chambers at Auschwitz during the Second World War.
Mr. Leuchter dutifully traveled to Auschwitz with several assistants and made his investigation. He carefully examined the alleged gas chambers there: the doors and windows, the floors and walls and ceilings, the shower fixtures which, so the official story goes, had been used to introduce poison gas into shower rooms full of unsuspecting Jews. He even collected scrapings from the walls and had them chemically analyzed.
Mr Leuchter had concluded, back in 1988, that Jews may or may not have been killed at Auschwitz during the war, but 4 million of them certainly had not been gassed to death in the buildings at Auschwitz identified in the tourist brochures as "gas chambers." His investigation had convinced him that these buildings were not used for that purpose and, indeed, couldn't have been used for that purpose.
He had testified about his findings during the 1988 trial and had spoken about them in public several times since then, because what happened during the Second World War remains a matter of considerable interest to many people around the world today. But why, we might ask, should the German secret police arrest an American tourist in order to keep him from talking about such matters on a TV program?
Certainly, it isn't illegal in Germany to talk about the Second World War or about gas chambers or about the so-called "Holocaust." These are frequent topics in the German media and in German classrooms. There's nothing illegal about them. That is, there's nothing illegal in talking or writing about these things if one does it in a Politically Correct way. But it is illegal in Germany to be Politically Incorrect.
The Politically Correct position on the "Holocaust" is that 6 million Jews, for absolutely no fault of their own, were killed in gas chambers by the Germans during the Second World War, 4 million of them at Auschwitz. As long as you stick to that line you can talk about the "Holocaust" all you want in Germany. But if you say, "Hey, maybe some Jews were killed at Auschwitz during the war, but I really don't think that 4 million were killed in gas chambers there, because I've been to Auschwitz and examined the facilities" -- if you say that in public, the German secret police will grab you and throw you in prison and you'll be facing a five-year prison term.
There are a lot of other things one can't talk about in Germany too. One can be thrown in prison for questioning other aspects of the official version of the Second World War: for talking about the mass murders of German soldiers in Allied prisoner-of-war camps after the war, for example. It's illegal to suggest that Germany was not solely responsible for the war. It's illegal to say that the National Socialist government of Germany was justified in any of its policies or actions before or during the war.
One also can get into trouble with the police for campaigning for the return of territory taken away from Germany by the victors after the war or for complaining about the continued admission of non-White immigrants into Germany today.
The result of these bans on Politically Incorrect speech is that hundreds of Germans are in prison today in Germany along with Mr. Leuchter, and dozens of patriotic groups and political parties have been outlawed -- all for daring to talk about Politically Inconvenient facts or to express Politically Incorrect ideas.
One of the most bizarre aspects of the German government's outlawing of dissent is that it's a completely one-sided thing. In Germany today you are free to tell the most outrageous lies you want, so long as your lies are anti-German! You can state in public that the Germans killed more than 6 million Jews during the war: you can say that they killed 100 million Jews, and that in retribution the German people should pay reparations to the government of Israel forever. You can say that, and the secret police won't bother you. But if you say, "Hey, it was fewer than 6 million," you're in trouble. And you can insult the Germans, you can falsify their history, you can spit on the graves of their patriots, you can praise their enemies, and the German government will smile at you.
This strange behavior by the German government has puzzled some people, and they've theorized that the Germans behave that way because of a feeling of guilt for their wickedness during the war 50 years ago. That, of course, is a lot of baloney. The Japanese don't feel guilty for their role in the war. The Russians don't feel guilty because of the crimes of their former communist government.
The reason the German government behaves the way it does has a simple historical explanation. At the end of the Second World War the victorious democratic and communist occupying powers installed a German government of their own choosing. First they removed every legitimate official from office unless he could prove that he had secretly worked against his own country during the war. And they did the same thing with the media and the schools. The Allies made treason the criterion for holding public office or teaching or publishing a newspaper in Germany. The only people who could run for public office were Jews who had miraculously survived the alleged extermination camps, or communists, or shirkers who had fled the country during the war to avoid serving in the German Army -- in the way Bill Clinton did over here during the Vietnam War. So one had a postwar government in Germany made up of anti-patriots, of people who had a vested interest in maintaining the official lies that were the party line of the Allied occupying powers. The present government in Germany is the direct descendant of this anti-patriotic puppet government installed by the conquerors after the war. The last legitimate German government is the one elected in 1933, before the war. It's easy to understand why the present government in Germany doesn't want the German people thinking about that fact. And that's why the government has made it illegal to criticize the people to whom the present politicians owe their jobs or to question the whole rationale of the war and its aftermath.
It is troubling to me and many others, however, that the United States government encourages the suppression of human rights in Germany in order to keep the German puppet regime in power there. If an American citizen had been arrested anywhere else in the world merely for agreeing to appear on a TV program, the US State Department would protest vigorously and the matter would be headline material in all our major newspapers. But in the case of Fred Leuchter there is no protest and there are no headlines. This is also troubling because it is hypocritical. The Clinton government makes a great pretense of supporting human rights around the world. This pretense sometimes serves as the pretext for sending American troops to force some Third World country into line with the New World Order, but it is still only a pretense.
The arrest of Fred Leuchter, and the lack of response by the Clinton administration to his arrest, are most troubling, however, because they are indicative of a trend. Dissent is outlawed in Germany today, and it will be outlawed in America sooner or later, because the same interests in America that approve of stifling German patriots and criminalizing Political Incorrectness in Germany are pushing for similar governmental policies in America. There are many people in the Clinton administration who would love to be able to arrest anyone who speaks out against their policy of gun confiscation, for example. They would love to lock up everyone who argues against the continued destruction of U.S. industry through so-called "free trade" agreements with the Third World. There are people in the government who really believe that it ought to be against the law for anyone to speak out against the flood of non-White immigrants into America, that it ought to be against the law to call for deporting all non-Whites to Africa or Asia.
And there are, of course, the people behind the Clinton administration, the people to whom the Clintonistas look for guidance, people who know that they must make it illegal for anyone to pull the curtain aside and reveal their presence to the public. They understand that they cannot survive if a majority of the American population becomes fully aware of their control of the news and entertainment media and their manipulation of public opinion and of the political process through that control. They know that they must limit the spread of information about themseles, about their power, about the crimes they have committed against humanity. And they will try to stifle patriots in America -- they will try to silence every dissident voice -- just the way they have in Germany, by making it illegal to speak the truth, illegal to challenge their policies.
One might think that in mass democracies, such as we have in Germany and in the United States, the string-pullers could tolerate a little dissent. After all, probably 70 or 80 per cent of the general public really believe the lies they're told by their TV commentators and by their politicians. Television is a very persuasive medium. In the United States we just saw a very substantial portion of the public -- perhaps even a majority -- let themselves be convinced by TV propaganda that the passage of the N A F T A would be a good thing for them. They're in the process now of letting themselves be convinced that they'll actually be safer when it becomes illegal for law-abiding citizens to have firearms for self-defense. So why should the people who control the mass media be afraid of letting a few individuals contradict them with the facts?
The answer to that is that the truth can be a very dangerous weapon when used skillfully and aggressively. People who deal principally in lies are afraid of having this weapon used against them. In Germany, for example, where it is illegal to question the official "Holocaust" story of 6 million gassed Jews, the dissenters were coming up with too many embarrassing facts, too much evidence that the government and the media had been lying to the public about what had happened during the war. The dissent was spreading. Competent people, including historians and other scholars, were questioning the numbers. Eyewitnesses, who had been silent for decades, were speaking out about what had really happened during and immediately after the war, about who had done what to whom, about who were the real war criminals. And so the German government, whose whole existence really is based on the lie of German guilt, simply made it illegal to question that lie.
That's why an American citizen, Fred Leuchter, is sitting in a German prison now. And the fact that the Clinton administration has not protested his imprisonment is a pretty good indication that the Clinton administration doesn't really disapprove of locking people up for Political Incorrectness. Criminalizing speech and thought, in fact, has become quite fashionable in the crowd of New World Order elitists. They believe that they know what's best for everyone, and any dissent just confuses people. Best to outlaw it. Throw the toublemakers into prison, if they won't adjust their thinking to the New World Order.
One of the consequences of this New World Order intolerance is the plague of so-called "hate" legislation which has been imposed on the American people in the last decade. It used to be that if you punched someone in the nose, for any reason except self-defense, you could simply be charged with assault and battery. Nowadays it's not so simple at all. What you'll be charged with depends on the color of your skin, the color of the nose you punched, and -- most important -- what you think about people of the color you punched. Anything you have ever said or written in the past which may indicate that you punched for a Politically Incorrect reason will be held against you.
It used to be that on university campuses in America any topic at all was open for debate, and that students and faculty members were free to express any opinion whatsoever on the topic. Freedom of that sort has become very unfashionable today, however. Faculty members are fired and students are expelled for expressing Politically Incorrect opinions. The atmosphere of intellectual tolerance on American university campuses today is closer to that which prevailed in Spain during the Inquisition than that which was the norm in America before about 1960.
And it will become much worse before it becomes better. The same clever liars who have managed to persuade a substantial portion of the American people -- and a majority of the politicians -- that the 2nd Amendment to the U.S. Constitution doesn't really mean what it says are also working on the 1st Amendment. Freedom of speech, they want everyone to believe, really means freedom to say fashionable things, freedom to express Politically Correct ideas, freedom to discuss subjects which aren't on the forbidden list, freedom to state opinions which don't offend the government or the members of any officially protected minority. That's the way it is in Germany. That's the way they want it in America. That's the direction in which the United States government is moving. And it's moving faster under the Clintonistas than it ever has before.
What can we do about it? How can we restore our right to armed self-defense? How can we preserve our right to speak our minds? What can we do to restore a spirit of free inquiry to our universities?
There is no single, easy answer to these questions. Part of the answer is vigilance. If we want to preserve our liberty, we must always be vigilant.
Part of the answer is the way we live and the way we raise our children. We have become a soft, fearful, feminized people, too willing to surrender our manhood rather than fight, too ready to trade freedom for an imagined security, too eager to look to the politicians and the government for support and protection instead of relying on ourselves.
Part of the answer is a broader, more enlightened view of the world. In the past we let ourselves be divided against each other by clever enemies. We let ourselves be persuaded that it was all right to take freedom away from Germans, so long as Americans kept theirs. We need to understand that unless the healthy, freedom-loving elements in America and Europe stand together against our common enemies and against the sick elements among ourselves who have come under the influence of those enemies, eventually none of us will be free.
Finally, if we want to preserve a right, we must exercise that right. This is especially true of the right of free speech. When the people who control the media begin trying to persuade us that we don't really need the right to say unfashionable things, just like they persuaded so many people that no one really needs a semiautomatic rifle, then we must speak up loudly and clearly, instead of remaining silent until our right to speak is legislated away, as already has happened in Germany.
All of you listening now: join me in speaking out against those who want to steal our freedom. Speak out against the politicians in Germany who are keeping Fred Leuchter in prison. Speak out against the politicians in America who have refused to protest his arrest. Speak out against the enemies of freedom everywhere: against the Helmut Hohls and the Bill Clintons, against the Feinsteins and the Metzenbaums and the Schumers and the Moynihans in the US Congress. Use every means at your disposal to make yourself heard. Use call-in radio and TV programs. Use letters to the editor of every newspaper and magazine you read. Use bulletin boards. Use graffiti.
And use courage and perseverance. Tell everyone: Freedom for Fred Leuchter! Freedom for Americans and Germans! Down with the New World Order and the enemies of freedom everywhere!

[vulture]

The german secret police? Hello, this isn't Cold War DDR STASI. We're talking about Germany after the fall of the wall.

Where did you get your "facts" from? Television perhaps, as you say "program"?

So Clinton was taking away your rights? I guess that Bushs Patriot Act is restoring them? :rolleyes: How bout the TIPS program? The STASI would have been jealous if that ever succeeded.

[Arkangel]

Who the hell else could have stopped them

The Red Army stopped them. Not the Brits, allies or Americans, the Red Army.

America contributed enormously to the war logistically prior to it's actual military involvement. They supported Britain, and to a lesser degree many other countries, Russia included, with materials and machines (for a price naturally, war is after all, good for business), but it was the REDS that stopped Germany. Hitler decided that Barbarossa was going to work and he put most of his efforts into that.

BIG mistake.

HUGE.

Anyone that says that culture flourished, and the Holocaust is an overstated myth is talking out of their arse. Culture was good if it fitted the Aryan ideal, but 90% of art we know today was and would have been labeled as degenerate. My uncle was a cook in the British Army and was one of the first people into a concentration camp and he KNOWS it was real, what he found in the camp.

That said, it makes me furious when I see the Holocaust being used as an excuse for all sorts of bollocks from Israel and Jewish communities around the world. What's done is done and we should never forget, but then we DO forget, don't we......Srebrenica, Rwanda, Cambodia............:mad:

[knowledgehungry]

Yes the Red army did stop them, and then we stopped them :). Also In america i'm allowed to fly a swazi or a big peace symbol without government interference. And chemicals in the US are very easy to get also, hell you can buy pentaerythritol on ebay^^. And they dont have the right to bear arms do they?

[vulture]

If you have a licence, yes. I know that it's easier to get a gun permit in Germany than the Netherlands for example.

PE is plentiful in Germany too. Now don't let us start a who has the most chems war.

Also In america i'm allowed to fly a swazi or a big peace symbol without government interference

You're allowed to fly a big peace symbol in Germany and you won't be called unpatriotic for it. :rolleyes:

A swastika is a different thing. The Germans have been carrying the burden of Hitler for many generations even if they were born long after WWII. As they do not wish to be associated with him anymore (would you?) they banned the typical symbols.

That is something typical in every country which has known a regime chance. Everybody still being loyal to the old regime will be quickly dealt with.

I agree though that it infringes the right of free speech to a certain extent, but you're not going to get jailed for years. Social service is a much more likely punishment.

Would you be allowed to walk the streets with a flag saying "I love osama bin Laden! Kill the US!"?

[nesler]

I should have acknowledged Russia in a big way--their soldiers, and their lovely sub-zero weather. I guess lack of sleep played hell with the mental history book. But yes, the Reds had a HUGE affect upon the war as well. Russia seems to have protected Eastern Europe, while the US aided Western Europe, assisting Britain, France (yippee :rolleyes: ) and others.

[MrSamosa]

Russia seems to have protected Eastern Europe

"Helped," depending on how you see it. Consider that Stalinism was viciously expansionist, and that every territory the Red Army entered was effectively annexed by the USSR. The local Communist party was undemocratically bolstered by Russian tanks. The secret police would "put down" dissenters... consider the uprisings in Hungary and Czechoslovakia, for example.

No doubt, Hitler brutalized the Slavs. Nazi racial theory went as follows: "Nord" > Latin Races (French, Italians, etc.) > Slavs > Jews. The last two were brutalized the most. Consider, 11 million Ukrainians were killed by the Nazis-- no one hears much about them.

[knowledgehungry]

I'm allowed to walk down the street with a flag saying "I love osama bin Laden! Kill the US!", however fellow citizens might not take kindly to it, however under law i am allowed to.

[nesler]

The U.S. constitution was (originally) written to protect the minority opinion. That's why you can do it, legally.

[ossassin]

Knowledgehungry, don't become a protestor. :) Where I live, you'd probably get shot for doing that (by a civilian). The police here make arrests based on what they think that the law should say, not what it actually says. The charge ends up being something subjective like Disorderly Conduct. People don't realize it, but the US is really turning into a police state.

[ronald]

In 1940, estonia was occupied by the USSR, in 1941, the germans came... It was a paradise. At least compared to USSR. Stalinist regime killed anyone, the economy was in ruins, the land was given to stupid communism supporters who didnt know what to do with it. When the Germans came, they were greeted everywhere in the western states of USSR. At least in the Baltics and Ukraine - dont know about belarus. Too bad they didnt treat the ukrainians as good as they treated us.

Some statistics comparing USSR and Nazi Germany:
During the first year under USSR, a bit more than 10000 people were sent to siberian concentration/slave labour camps. By the end of 1940s, 20% of estonians were killed or were sent to in siberia, where most didnt come back.
During the 3 years under germans, max 5000 ppl were killed, including criminals/communists and people who actully had to be killed.

People say how bad the nazis were, because they killed jews. Nobody has heard about Stalins final solution for the jews or the jewish doctor conspiracy. Yesterday was Holocaust day, mainly forced to us by the Jewish protectorate of USA. Why isnt Israel memorating the deportations of June 1941 and August 1949, when estonians were sent to Siberia?

Yeah Germany was sometimes too ruthless, but compared to the russians, it was nothing.

And ofcourse, the technology. Germany has always been the most technologically advanced nation, it was then and could well be now, but unfortunatly the Germany today sees more importance in paying social benefit money for the immigrants, than advancing education/technology. The Saturn V rocket what took the yanks to the moon was designed by Werner von Braun, the guy who made V2, but you should all know that anyway:)

The war wasnt won because of the brits, russians, yanks or italian, but all them together. I included Italy, because it was Germanys allie and the italians always messed things up and Germany had fight where it didnt want to fight, to help the italian - Africa and the Balkans. What the brits and yanks did, was to bomb german cities, infrastructure and industry, what really paralized its ability to provide things for the eastern front. Brits might had been able to do that alone too. The yanks enabled to invade mainland europe, it would had been too hard for the brits alone. And those few hundrend thousand germans in Africa could had made big difference in the eastern front.

Some movies, from where you could compare USSR and Nazi Germany : http://www.okupatsioon.ee/film/films.html

[knowledgehungry]

With a good lawyer you would be able to sue the fuck out of the police department that did that :). And dont worry i've never been a protester, rioter on the other hand...

[vulture]

I'm allowed to walk down the street with a flag saying "I love osama bin Laden! Kill the US!"

By the law, you're allowed to, but would the average policemen allow you to carry on? I think the least thing they would do is confiscate your flag. If you have anything remotely incriminating on you, you'll go down for sure.

You'd be labeled as a terrorist immediatly if you'd carry any fireworks.

[roux]

i think that had the brits, french, and americans not skrewed the germans after the first world war, hitler would not have rose to power, jews would not have established israel(yuk), and the palestinians wouldnt be pissed at americans for supporting israel. although hitler did a tremendous amount of good for the german people, i still hate him(though he did rebuild the land i came from). but i doubt anyone could have rebuilt germany any better. so i guess i have no one to blame but the west. and the american government? themselves.

[tmp]

"I Love Osama Bin Laden ! Kill The U.S. !". Walk down a U.S. street with a
flag stating that and you're likely to get your ass kicked with the cops
cheering on your attackers. The 1st Amendment says it's your right under
freedom of expression but I wouldn't advise it. The German Nazi and the
Russian Communist governments(not the people) were inherently evil.
Both are guilty of mass murdering their opponents.

The most controversial symbol in the United States is the Rebel flag,
also known as "The Stars And Bars", which looks like a half-assed
version of the British Union Jack.

[knowledgehungry]

However they are legal to fly and many peopl do, even though the stars and bars stands for defiance of the US government! The only people who cry about the flag and want to make it illegal are the left who want us to never question or rebel against the government!

[wrench352]

I think thats crap about the Osama bin Laden shirt. When they burn flags here they have police protection as it free speech, same with white power rallys.The first ammendment WAS about the minority opinion.You can say anything here as long as it responsible(ie no inciting riots,panic,etc or threatening people with bodily harm). I live near a university (very liberal) with lots of fringe elements and Ive never ever seen the first amendment infringed here,regardless of the ignorance.
I personally am very interested in the Nazi medical experiments,with the reparations goin on now there is a growing catalog of their experiments. Did any good come from all that suffering?

[Yorki_pyro]

did someone say england has not been invaded since 1066?
i dont agree, look at the figures for illegal immigrants and tell me if you think that is an invasion or not

[MrMagnum]

It is really interesting for me to read all your posts. More open-minded than we Germans think about our history. I see that Germany has problems to cope with its history, even today.

[tom haggen]

I would like to visit germany, I have herd it is very peaceful there now days. As for the nazi, If the world goes to shit I wouldn't mind loading up my magnum and blasting a couple before I meet my maker. It would make for some good target practice.

[vulture]

You can say many bad things about the Nazis, but they had a much better economical record than Bush has. :p

They got a country that was crippled to death by the Versailles treaty, reduced unemployment of nearly six million to virtually nil and turned Germany into a selfsustaining global superpower.

[tom haggen]

Ya to bad the dumb bastards had no use for jewish scientists. We American were more than happy to take their scientists and give them a place to work. Had the nazis played there cards a little better and used the jewish scientists and then killed them. I would probably be speaking german right now.

[5_seven]

Well, the Nazi party actually did do what it set out to do: Change Germany for the better, and rid themselves of the opressive versailles treaty. Yeah, they killed jews, but what bothers me is the whole judeo-centricity. Ask any kid now, they'll tell you the nazis only killed jews. That's a terrible spin on the subject, it's like saying "fuck all the other people that were murdered", they killed the mentally retarded/insane, gypsies, blacks, czechs, pols, russians, homosexuals, countless reprisals on the french, the norweigians, the italians and other occupied territories. But it's like the whole thing was spun to focus on nobody but the jews. It's also been spun to where now only Germany had death camps. Fuck, what about Russia? The Russians were killing not only jews, but cossacks, land owning peasants, chechens, Germans, fins, etc. No, I don't condone or respect these acts of mass murder, but Jesus Christ, I can understand why people think the holocaust is a hoax, I listen to the stories now and it sounds so fake and unrealistic.

What I think about Germany now, I think they're cool man, back to the top of this post, they got rid of the treaty of versailles (though bogged down by Russian occupation) and the German depression that followed the oppressive treaty is gone as well, he economy is growing, and the people are alright in my book. /my two cents

[Acrolein]

I know I will catch heck and be called a nazi for the rest of my forum life, but I idolize Hitler and all that he did for his country. His country could have became the world superpower. He was only trying to help his country (and get back at the artists, which was kind of creepy:rolleyes: ) but he did try to help his country's economy and Jews did have most of it's money... Please don't ban me for my viewpoint!

[Defendu]

and get back at the artists, which was kind of creepy

http://www.hitler.org/art/

[nbk2000]

Acrolein is obviously new to these here parts, if he thinks he'd be banned for being a Nazi, eh? ;) :D

[10fingers]

I think Nazi Germany accomplished a great deal considering the size of the country and it's resources. This is more of a credit to the German people than Nazism.

In some ways Hitler was a genius but also a madman. Hitler did what most successful dictators do, he gave people something to love and something to hate. Their race and the Jews. This is how people are manipulated and deceived.

And anyone who believes that the Holocaust did not happen is an idiot. The Jews are a very successful people, look what they have done considering the size of Israel. The Germans are a great people but the Jews might be better.

Some of the things the allies did during the war were crimes against humanity too. The rounding up of Japanese Americans and putting them in concentration camps, the systemic bombing of German cities by America and Britain, the Atom bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. These things were atrocities too. I do not have exact figures, this is a rough guess, but the Allies may have killed a million civilians during the war. People who had no say in the decision making of their governments. This is why dictatorships are a bad idea. But history is written by the victors of a war so we conveniently forget about this.

[Acrolein]

Ever since the eighth grade my teachers have told me that Hitler persecuted the artists because he was banned from art school, and many Jews were artists. I just assumed what my teachers told me was true.:rolleyes: I guess that Virginia's education system is really stupider than I thought. :p Sorry for the incorrect facts!:o

Thank God Nazism isn't persecuted here.:D

[defiant]

The Jews and the Germans are both fuckers, as is the human race generally.

[nbk2000]

I remember reading somewhere that a million Axis POW's died in American POW camps, in the United States, between '45 and '47, because Roosevelt was a vindicative bastard and Truman didn't care to stop it.

[defiant]

I seriously doubt those statistics are empirical. Were there that many POW's?

In any case, the US has overtly and covertly probably killed or caused the deaths of tens of millions since WWII (in the name of capitalism, democracy, free trade, the war against drugs, national security, the war on terror, and other enlightened causes).

Former CIA agent Stockwell attributes covert actions alone as being responsible for some six million deaths: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=50637138881695470&q=stockwell+cia&hl=en

Stockwell's 6 million figure may be politically motivated to draw an anology between the official figures of the holocaust and US foreign policy. Nevertheless the number is in the millions. Its hard to say whether Hitler killed more than the US, and the picture becomes fuzzier still when you consider that characters such as Prescott Bush helped finance the Reich.

Propaganda aside, its all about power, control of resources/labor, and ultimately elitist wealth. Skull and bones 666 freemason kill committee shit.

[Cobalt.45]

I'm no authority, but I don't recall any country of influence stepping up to support the jews during or immediately after WWII, USA included. That they were universally reviled seems to have been forgotten.

You can annihilate someone/something by inaction as well as action. In this regard, the world as a whole, with tiny exceptions, can take the blame/credit for the holocaust.

[Defendu]

the world as a whole, with tiny exceptions, can take the blame/credit for the holocaust.

Why do you call it The HolocaustTM? Are the millions killed by the Communists, British Imperialists, Allied bombers etc any less human than the Jews?

The Jews have obviously monopolized victimhood in order to steal from the nations of the world under the guise of "Holocaust reparations" and gather support for the state of Israel.

[nbk2000]

There's a reason why the Jews were universally dispised and unwanted.

It's only in the US and some western european countries that they've managed to foist off this myth of The Hollow-costTM. The rest of the world could give a shit less about a mythical lessening of 6 million jews.

Did you know they (the kikes) said the same thing after WW1...the 6M figure? They just didn't have a catchy marketing meme like The Hollow-costTM to keep it viral. :)

[sparkchaser]

I won't speak of the hollocaust, it's a dead horse in my book. I do, however, have a few thoughts on why Htler lost.

In the beginning stages of the war, the U.S. was helping quite a bit to fight the Nazis covertly. The national boundries were extended to 1500 nautical miles, and any axis shipping that was caught in those boundries was either destroyed or ratted on to the allies. The lend/lease program sent milllions of tons of materiel and equipment to the allies without any expectation of repayment. Basically, we were giving out free shit by the boatload.

Then came Pearl Harbor, and the average American no longer wanted neutrality.

Britain was holding off a Nazi invasion by the skins of their teeth. The only thing keeping them alive was the fact that they had air supremacy over the channel. This was about to fall in though; they were running out of experienced pilots and good aircraft quickly. At that time, Goring was concentrating all the Luftwafe bombs on military targets to devastating effect.

The U.S. started daylight raids over Germany, bombing cities instead of military targets, this pissed off Hitler and Goring to no end and they wanted revenge. When the Nazis shifted their targets to cities, Britain was able to save and rebuild their air force. If Hitler had continued bombing military targets, they would have had the air supremacy they needed for an invasion by sea, the U.S. would have had no place to stage an attack, and France would not have been liberated.

With only one front to worry about, operation Barbarosa may have been more successfull, and the supply strain would have lessened.

Another point was that Goring refused to develope heavy bombers, focusing instead on light/medium bombers that had little effect, and outdated fighters that couldn't cut the mustard against the U.S. designed fighters that came around by mid-war.

In short, it was stubbornness and lack of foresight combined with greed that felled germany.

[Cobalt.45]

Why do you call it...
I call it "the holocaust", not that thing you do with the trademark and all, because historically that's what it's called.:rolleyes: Just like the war of 1812, the 100 year war, etc.;)
The Jews have obviously monopolized victimhood in order to steal from the nations of the world under the guise of "Holocaust reparations" and gather support for the state of Israel.
Which just goes to show you that the shrewd mfers are survivors, if nothing else.

And today they find themselves pretty well off, all in all.

Is this because they play the sympathy card? Fuck yes! They are no different than any other entity. You play the cards you were dealt. If you can deal off the bottom of the deck, you do it.

Does this make their pandering right? Fuck no! But the simple fact of the matter is that they have endured, and it'd take an awful lot of change- political as well as cultural, and a nuke or three- to make it any different.

Tilting windmills, I leave to you.

As for the whole of WWII, my take on it might be a bit slanted from most. I feel it was a glorious time for human carnage, maybe the last time (until the LAST time) that all the jams were kicked out, shit was let fly on all fronts, and the game was played for keeps.

[10fingers]

I worked for a German co. and they are hardworking, energetic people and when they do something they do it until it is right.
If you like war, WW2 was the best there every was. As you said there will most likely never be another like it. Until the end one.
What would the history channel have for programming if it wasn't for the Germans?

[Ygarl]

In response to Cyclonite....Who the hell else could have stopped them?


I have 2 words for you:
Russian Winter.

Same as Napolean...

+++++++

Don't quote whole posts in the future. NBK

[Exothermic]

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=7272889307599304093&q=political+commentary+on+pre-WWII+europe

This video is extremly intresting and discuss's the holocaust and discusses if mass gassings really happened on such a large scale. Obiously some of this video is bullshit, at one part he describes the fields outside the concentraction camps as being used by prisoners for games of football LOL.

Just dulging into the subject of fascism here and peoples view on it today. Alot
of people see fascism as an evil thing and so be it, they can have there say.

They mainly say its bad and go against it in britain because we fought the germans in world war two, but I would like to point this out to people we fought the GERMANS.... we were not fighting against fascism.

Fascism at the time was widley accepted in all parts of the world and in business's. People in germany and britain believed that facism was a good thing because the other extreme is communism which everyone hated.