how dangerous is flash

[Sektorf5]

how dangerous is flash powder to handle and use in a firecraker. the flash i migh make would be of 400 mesh aluminum powder and potasium perclorate. Also ive heard that clorate is more friction and shock sensitive, is that true. Thanks for your help.

[SafetyLast]

It is not too dangerous if you are careful with it and respect it.
You shouldn't use more than 10 grams of it since you are starting out. It is both friction and shock sensitive, but not as sensitive as a lot of other substances
(ie: KMnO4+Al).
You are definitely right about the chlorate flash powder being more sensitive than the perchlorate flash.
The KClO4+Al is a good flash to use, as it is less sensitive than KClO3+Al.
You know how to safely mix them I assume (diaper method)


[This message has been edited by SafetyLast (edited September 03, 2001).]

[Mr Cool]

You shouldn't have many safety problems with 400 mesh Al and KClO4, just don't be stupid with it but you don't sound like you would. Like SafetyLast said, just treat it with respect and you should be fine.
I assume you'll be getting the stuff from a pyro supplier, and from the sound of you post you haven't ordered it yet. Well when you do, buy FLAKE Al, it makes the flash a lot better.

[the freshmaker]

hey I think it is time to discuss how unstable KMnO4 flashpowders really are. I don't have any real proof, but I don't think it is so damn unstable as many claims. It is true that it very unstable and tends to spontanous ignite when mixed with ORGANIC material such as glyserine etc. KMnO4 flash consists of ofcause KMnO4, -Sulfur and Aluminium. As far as I know all of these materials are INORGANIC!. I have tried to store (at a safe place) KMnO4 flash up to many weeks without any sign of decomposition!
I remember another forum member(?) who stored this type of flash a year....!?
Ofcause it is still sensitive and dangerous as all other flashpowders to friction, shock, sparks etc. but I think KClO3 flashpowders are much more sensitive!!

The good thing about KMnO4 is that it can be made from easely avaible chemicals, it dosen't have to be mixed extremely well, and it is quite powerfull (as powerfull as KClO4 flashpowers!?)
Does anyone have some other proofs?
or other info?

[the freshmaker]

If anyone is interested you can find a good description of KMnO4 flash for salutes - therein called "flash no.9" http://edetonator.hyperlink.cz/Delobuchy0.htm

[Mr Cool]

I wouldn't use KMnO4/Al/S, there's no need for the sulphur it just makes it dangerous. Without the S it should be fine, certainly for several weeks. It's slightly harder to ignite, but you should manage easily.
Even without the S you should handle it carefully, but I seriously doubt that it'll ever spontaneously ignite.

[krimmie]

I have not had any problem with the stability of Al flash(so far). Although my Al could be finer. I will be receiving some 400 mesh soon...HOPE my opinion doesn't change!!!

[krimmie]

Oops, I'm using 3 parts KMNO4, 2parts Al and 1 part S(by weight of course). That's the percentages that I got from here...if anyone has a better formula, please let me know!

[Teck]

Ive never had problems with KMnO4. I buy the stuff at Sears, they sell it in plastic cans in water purifing section of the store. Its expansive 7.00 for 100g i think, but hey I get a Five Finger Discount.

================================================== ===================

You need to get rid of the animated "hand grabbing bouncing thing" from your signature.

Please notice how neither the admin, nor any of the moderators or anyone else for that matter uses one.

Think there's a reason?

Hint: HED

Take care of it.

NBK2000

PS: I tried to e-mail this to you but the e-mail address you listed doesn't exist. http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/mad.gif

[This message has been edited by nbk2000 (edited October 23, 2001).]

[Demolition]

KMnO4 flash is good.Very powerful.My friend tried using (in volume) 12 parts KMnO4 to 3 parts Al powder and 2 parts Sulfer.When confined in a paper tube it made a large crack (similar to AP) where as when the 3:2:1 ration is used it produces a large deep BOOM.
Differences in the amount of gas being released I'm guessing.
Which would be the more powerful if you could call it that?

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http://www.angelfire.com/retro/mafsexplosives/
Demolition

[Sektorf5]

Thanks for all the info.

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*HF*

[BrAiNFeVeR]

Well i recently made som KMnO4 Flash powder using the 3:2:1 formula and it works perfectly (next ime i might try some less S though)
Demolition, I think, with your formula, you actually won't get that much of a flash, since u use (in my opinion) way too much KMnO4and S / amount of Al-powder, Don't you find residu's of KMnO4 after an explosion (a purple spot on the pavement or something like that)???


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"Mess with me, and you'll end up with a .44 under your chin and your brains on the ceiling"

[Demolition]

Yes,sometimes I find a small purple patch on the concrete underneath where the cracker was.After every blast http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/biggrin.gif I always find the concrete slightly blackened from the heat given out from the explosion,very nice http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/wink.gif.

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Demolition

[BrAiNFeVeR]

Yes, I have also amazed myself about the amount of heat the flash makes!
If you light a small batch (1 gr or so) on a toilet paper, the paper actually bursts into flames all at once with the flash, even if it is flat on concrete !
When i first tried to light some of it with a lighter, the heat was so intense the front part of my finger(thumb)nail was scorched brown and curled a bit up !! and the plastic of the lighter was a bit molten too !!
All the plastic that comes from under the metal cap kinda looked sad http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/wink.gif



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"Mess with me, and you'll end up with a .44 under your chin and your brains on the ceiling"

[EventHorizon]

Yet again, another 'friend' made a 2" galvanized mortor for firing, well, anything that would fit in the barrel. http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/biggrin.gif using 1g 70/30 Al/KClO4 crackers. After 3 firings the "chamber" would be very hot to the touch. It would launch 6" sections of wooden dowel over 150 yds. http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/biggrin.gif http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/biggrin.gif Someone stuffed a lacrosse ball down the barrel once too, never did see where or how far that went.

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"Chance favors a prepared mind" - Louis Pasteur
"Happiness is a large pile of links." - Me
PGP ID 0x147CEF54

[krimmie]

I dreamt that this was a 3:2:1 ratio of KMNO4,Al,S. www.angelfire.com/gundam/krimmie/Mvc_017s.jpg (http://www.angelfire.com/gundam/krimmie/Mvc_017s.jpg)

OOps, that was 28 grams in a Dixie cup.



[This message has been edited by krimmie (edited November 03, 2001).]

[-Colza-]

Be very wary of dextrin coming into contact with KMnO4 mixtures!

I had a nasty experience with a rocket with dextrin as a binder and a KMnO4 flash charge at the top. If the dextrin gets sightly damp (in this case dew on the grass) it ignites the KMnO4 flash!

It didn't do any damage but holy FUCK it gave us all a fright!

[DarkAngel]

How do you know the dextrine ignited the flash and not some other ingredient?

And discripe where both mixtures where made of.

------------------
ÐarkAngel

For explosives and stuff go to Section1 http://www.section1.f2s.com And http://run.to/section1 (http://www.run.to/section1)
sendtosection1@hotmail.com

[CodeMason]

Knowing what KMnO₄ does in contact with glycerine, why is it suprising that it ignites in contact with dextrin, another energetic sugar?

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Visit my website (in development): http://codemason.cjb.net

[VX]

The following is a description of my fist encounter with flash powder.

I have always been fascinated by explosives and more broardly pyrotechnics in general. and 5 years ago i was a LOT more ignorant than i am now.My friends dad (yes he is a real friend) works at the theater and was in charge of all of the pyrotechnics used their, which he kept in his garage. We found a tub of flash powder. Not knowing that flash powder and gun powder were different things we proceded to make a short trail of the powder that ended with a fairly large mound of flash. i lit it with a match (not a very bright thing to do, i know now), expecting it to slowly burn allong the powder trail before flaring up when it reached the mound. (i think i had seen this done on a film a few days before). This is possibly the most stupid thing i have ever done.

I do not know what the flash consisted of because we did not make it, infact it was not even home made, it had been bought (at great cost from a proper pyrotechnic, theatrical supplier)

As you already know flash does not burn slowley, and their is nothing slow about it, it flared up instantly (their was not enough to cause detonation, and it was not at all confined, except by itself in the mound.) However the intence heat resulted in a burn that left the bone on one of my fingers clearly visable, and very little skin on the rest of my hand. I had to visit the specialist burns unit every other day for FIVE weeks, to have bandages replaced and so forth.

5 years later i have found megalomania, (the best site i have ever come across) and havent been carless since.

I learnt the hard way,

my point,

Flash poweder is in my opinion not safe at all if you do not know exactly what you are doing. Even then it will still be only to happy to kill/maim you and others if you are even slightly carless with it.

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Their is no spoon!!

[This message has been edited by VX (edited 11-22-2001).]

[mrloud]

I have a nice cup full of proper theatrical flash powder that I bought a year or so ago. I don't know exactly what is in it but it looks like it is mostly aluminium with some magnesium. It is not shock sensitive or friction sensitive and it does not react with glycerine. It actually takes a naked flame to set it off. A cigarette won't do it.

In other words, there is no formula to "This Is How Dangerous Flash Powder Is". It depends on what it is made from.

[Arkangel]

So what actually is theatrical flash? I've seen the stuff before, and it goes "POOF", with a bright flash, mushroom cloud of white smoke, and then there's this Fairy Godmother standing there.(or not, whichever way round they do it)

Is it the same as boomer flash, but uncontained, or is it something less explosive, maybe with a nitrate instead of chlorate? If so, can it be modified to make a boom? Also, where does the Fairy Godmother come from? :confused:

<small>[ May 28, 2002, 09:27 AM: Message edited by: Arkangel ]</small>

[Chris Shiherlis]

I think you should be very careful with flashpowder. It's very sensitive to friction, heat and sparks. I'd rather deal with a large badge of AP than flashpowder.

<small>[ May 28, 2002, 12:45 PM: Message edited by: Mr Cool ]</small>

[Arkangel]

Er, yes, that's lovely Chris, thanks for the tip. I think everyone here is agreed on that aren't we chaps? Splendid.

However, I resurected this topic because I want to know about the composition of, and potential ways to sensitize theatrical flash.

Given that we've now got the hazards of flash firmly in the open, does anyone actually have anything other than that to contribute? :rolleyes:

(and by the way, I think that hijacking my question is a damn sneaky way to try and get the whole pathetic detonation/deflagration argument going again after NBK closed that topic. I hope nobody humours you by doing so - mods please note)

<small>[ May 28, 2002, 09:54 AM: Message edited by: Arkangel ]</small>

[Arkangel]

(Flame)

I normally try not to double post, but under the circumstances I've decided to do so, to draw attention to the prick that is Chris Shiherlis. (as if it were needed)

I've been away for a week or so on business, and haven't had time to check out the forum, so I've missed out on some of the bollocks that's been going on with him. I only really looked at the "flash powder showdown" thread, and didn't see him picking arguments in wantsomfets thread about ANNM/Al sensitized. The former was enough to convince me he is a prick, and when he replied to my previous post here about theatrical flash it was simply confirmation. I'm posting this because I've just gone through wontsomfets thread and seen just how much of a tosser he is.

Who the fuck is he, to get all aggressive and petulant with everyone about a subject that few people here can test scientifically, and in any case is irrelevant. He has some 60 odd posts, and the majority of those seem to be about "detonation of flash". It's all a bit suspect, that is of course until you find out the real reason for his enthusiasm, and that is because he is a plant by the "flash marketing board", who are attempting to convince us that flash is the bestest explosive there is, and we never need anything else. Before you know it, there will be flash branded t-shirts, flash candy, and maybe even a film about flash, featuring Arnie blowing away aliens with flash submunitions in his M60. It's a true reflection of the importance and value of the forum that they want to influence us like that as the beginning part of their "world flash year" :rolleyes:

What the FUCK is his problem? :mad:

In wantsomfets thread, he is busy telling everybody they are wrong, using his own bitch-logic, suggesting that they are all doing it because of ego, (And the forum is not renowned for ego), when clearly the only ego at play is his own. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

In his own (now closed) thread, he's busy doing similar things and even telling us what NBK thinks.

And now the prick sees me posting on another thread that mentions flash, and he tries to get things going here too. He didn't even answer my question, which was about theatrical flash. Ok, the title of the thread is "how dangerous is flash", but he starts with a cursory, "you should be careful etc", and then launches into his pet subject with

"not only because it detonates and so has great power (and this shockwave will set other firecrackers nearby off, as well as it will set off high explosives)" (Although Mr Cool appears to have edited this off his post now)

He's simply hoping that someone will argue the toss and he can begin jerking off all over again.

Chris, it's obvious and it's pathetic. More specifically, YOU are pathetic. :p (Flame)

Mods, he has been warned by you and by other members and STILL he can't shut the fuck up. What are the chances of giving him a flash enema and then fucking him up his newly reamed hole?

(If you could leave this thread open and help me out on the theatrical flash question it would be appreciated)

<small>[ May 28, 2002, 04:55 PM: Message edited by: Arkangel ]</small>

[S. Toppholzer]

Last fall I cleared up my basement where many of my chemicals are stored. I happened to find a big ziplock bag full with about 500 g KMnO4 flash. oops. I forgot I still had it. It was about 7-8 months old. I went to a nearby orchard put some fuse in it and waited for it to flash. Men! What a flash!! It was going Woooosh - a deep, rumbling sound with lots of heat and even more smoke pillowing skywards like an atomic mushroom.
It was sure fun but I'd never mix up such a big amount of flash anymore, guess that's a tad too dangerous.

[BrAiNFeVeR]

Are you trying to tell us that 500 grams of KMnO4 flash, slightly confined (plastic bag) won't detonate ????
Even without the bag it should !!!
That must have been a pretty lousy flash mix ...

Do you still remember the proportions KMnO4/Al/S that where used ?

<small>[ May 28, 2002, 03:00 PM: Message edited by: BrAiNFeVeR ]</small>

[vulture]

I'm getting the impression you people are somewhat to careful with flash, in the extent that you don't dear to mix it properly. I always add acetone and stirr with a big spoon. You should get something like silver paint. Let this dry and you have much better flash, at least with my KMnO4/Al/S it makes a huge difference.
Do NOT use alcohols!

Toppholzers flash was probably not well mixed or oxidized during storage.
And flash is in no way more sensitive than AP! Have you ever seen AP withstand an airrifle impact? Most flashes do....

[Arkangel]

Exactly, but you're missing Chris's point. He isn't actually interested in whether it is more or less sensitive than AP, he's just trying to extend his farcical argument.

And as a reminder, I reseurrected this thread 'cos it was one of two that came up when I was searching for "theatrical flash":

1. Is it the same as normal flash, if not:
2. What is it made of? and
3. Can it be sensitised to explode rather than just burn fast?

[vulture]

If it contains KClO3, sensitize by adding MnO2.

[Polverone]

When you say "normal flash" what exactly do you mean? 70% KClO4 and 30% Al is a standard flash mixture for salutes. Is this the sort of normal flash you're referring to?

Digging on rec.pyrotechnics reveals that there are several varieties of theatrical flash. Some are designed to burn relatively slowly and sparkle; others are supposed to give a nice "WHUMP!" concussion effect (faster burning). It appears that theatrical flash commonly uses magnesium or magnalium as the fuel and a nitrate as the oxidizer.

Many formulations also come separated, so that the oxidizer and fuel are mixed onsite (to make shipping easier).

When you say you want to sensitize the flash to explode instead of just burn fast, what exactly do you mean? This gets back to the whole dreaded "does flash detonate?" topic. Do you mean you want it to burn fast enough to go "bang" just with self confinement? It may be possible to separate the metal from oxidizer by dissolving the oxidizer and filtering. The metal could then be mixed with a more potent oxidizer for a more powerful flash. However, fine magnesium/magnalium may react with water and even alcohols, so this may not be advisable. It is easier if you have the kind that needs to be mixed and the components are still separate.

Something interesting that I read last night (but have not yet confirmed) is that vanadium pentoxide can serve as a decomposition catalyst for nitrates, rather like MnO2 can catalyze chlorates. Vanadium pentoxide is available for use in ceramics at fairly reasonable prices. It would be interesting to try making some comparison compositions. If it really does catalyze things, adding a bit to nitrate-based flash and thoroughly mixing might yield a more potent formulation as well.

If you're willing to settle for a "bang" with confinement, I have found even wimpy Al/S/KNO3 flash to make a respectable noise when confined in a triangle or tube salute.

[Arkangel]

To clarify, "normal flash" to me means something in a salute, whereas theatrical flash goes "poof" in a flashpot, emitting a flash and cloud of smoke (and said fairy godmother). I'm wondering if theatrical flash just goes poof because it's unconfined.

I'm asking because I'm coinsidering buying some, and am hoping to manage my expectations in working out whether the stuff would be useful in, or could be excited enough for a salute.

Bit of an ambiguous question really I suppose <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

[zaibatsu]

If Vandium Peroxide catalyses the decomposition of nitrates, can it be added to BP? Or maybe to speed up burn rate the NH4NO3/Charcoal propellant.

[inferno]

Krimmie - im sure the neighbours were pleased with that flash <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Ark - i think all LE's will make a nice WHUMP or POOF if unconfined. The theatrical flash should be able to be used in salutes, either tubes or trangular ones. If it sends out a lot of smoke (personally ive never seen it used) and a large flash, it will make enough pressure when ignited confined to burst the tube, or shoot out the fuse hole with a nice bang.

Armstrongs (and im sure BP, flash etc) can make a very nice bang even if it doesnt burst the tube. I use miniscule amounts of it in small plastic tubes, which have no sign whatsoever of breakage or stress after being set off, but they make a sharp crack, not a dull whump or anything.

All the salute instructions ive read say you have to make the tube break in the middle, and not have the ends pop out first for a nice bang. They also use so much more LE, i mean, a commercial BP cracker uses a lot of BP, my ones use about 8 caps, which i think equals to around 1.6 grains. (I use caps for the armstrongs). They wont do much like that, but if you put in double the caps they will blow apart a lot of things.

Sorry that just got off topic. Im sure theatrical flash can be used for salutes, even lift charges and stars. I think it would be worth it for you to buy some and test it, im pretty sure it could be used for explosives.

I mean, really its just a weaker flash mix, but its still powerful. it might use 450-500 mesh Al/Mg, or larger grained oxidisers, or just more oxidisers or something. If for some reason though it doesnt work, try adding some chlorate/perchlorate to it, or making a solution of it, then filtering out the metals, if they dont react with the solvent that is. Then add some stronger oxidisers.

<small>[ May 29, 2002, 06:06 AM: Message edited by: inferno ]</small>

[S. Toppholzer]

BrAiNFeVeR - Nope. I don't recall the proportions anymore. Too long ago and since that day I decided to go for high explosives - didn't mix up flashpowder anymore. But I guess I'll be tempted now that vulture mentioned the possibility mixing the powder by using acetone.
Vulture - do you think it would still have a nice effect if I use acetone and add some NC lacquer as a binder? I guess I should try this. Could be fun. I just think of filling up a coke tincan with KMnO4/Al/S flash with a bit of NC lacquer, sticking a pencil in it, perssing the whole stuff and letting it dry. After it's hardened, I'll put in a HMTD detcap and see what happens.... I guess it could be some sort of flashbang.

[vulture]

Hmm I don't think using NC lacquer is a good idea, because NC and KMnO4 are soluble in acetone, so you will end up with KMnO4/NC on the inside and a layer of sulfur on the outside. The reason acetone improves the flash is because it let's the KMnO4 crystallize inside the Al and S grains. You get a silver/yellow powder with very fine clusters. Whereas KClO3/Al takes 30s to burn down in a paper tube, this one goes whoosh with a big flash and sometimes a little bang on the end with the same paper tube.

If you mix it with the acetone and than press it hard and let it dry, it keeps the shape you pressed it in, but it's somewhat brittle. Maybe try this in a small tube and when you have got a little stick of flash cover this one with NC lacquer.

[S. Toppholzer]

thanks, vulture. I'll try this out anyways. Sounds promising. A very intimate mixture - I guess by mechanical mixing one couldn't accomplish that. Plus: by having a wetted down powder it's not very friction sensitive so it shouldn't be a problem compressing it with a little more force than one might dare with a dry powder...

[Polverone]

I did some more digging on rec.pyrotechnics. V2O5 is said to catalyze the decomposition of KNO3 - presumably other alkali metal nitrates as well. I don't know if it would also be effective with NH4NO3. It appears that V2O5 is sometimes used in nitrate based rocket propellants for higher performance. It's not regularly used in pyrotechnics because vanadium compounds are toxic.

Another couple of interesting tidbits I came up with while searching for V2O5 info: ferrous sulfate also speeds up black powder combustion by inhibiting H2S formation, which apparently slows down the combustion rate. This effect has supposedly been patented, but nobody in the thread I was reading mentioned a patent number.

Another related idea is to substitute potassium formate for sulfur, also eliminating H2S generation. I'm fairly certain one can prepare potassium formate by oxidizing methanol with KMnO4 solution turned alkaline with KOH. Filter out the precipitated MnO2. Be careful there's no excess permanganate or you may have an unpleasantly sensitive mixture when it comes time to ball-mill.

Yet another idea mentioned was to substitute a eutectic mixture of different nitrates for KNO3. The lower melting point of the mixed nitrates lead to easier initiation and (one presumes) a somewhat higher burn rate. Anyone have information about melting points for KNO3/NaNO3 mixtures? One individual suggested 55:45 KNO3:NaNO3 but it'd be nice to have confirmation.

You could theoretically combine multiple of the above ideas to yield a new "superpowder": A eutectic mixture (previously fused or dissolved/crystallized) of KNO3/NaNO3 mixed with fine charcoal and sulfur (adjusted to maintain the fuel/oxidizer ratio of standard black powder made with pure KNO3), with (say) an additional 2% of FeSO4 and 0.5% V2O5. That's theoretically. It does hold some interest for me, though. I see that I can get a pound of V2O5 for $19 from clayartcenter.com. That's enough for hundreds of pounds of composition. Now I just need to find out how I can easily make ferrous (not ferric) sulfate...

[MacCleod]

Hey,Arkangel,I did some internet searching on theatrical flash awhile back,and mostly what I found were 'A-B' formulas,equal amounts of magnesium (or alum.) and potassium nitrate which you mixed before use,though some suppliers did offer 'report flash','red flash','sparkle flash',etc.I would guess the A-B mix is pretty slow burning,but could be boosted with a stronger oxidizer.Most commercial suppliers prices where outrageous,though,from $20+ for a few ounces to $200+ per pound.

[inferno]

Ive found prices of suppliers to be ridiculous as well, charging hundreds of dollars for tiny amounts, i guess they assume any theatrical productions using flash will have enough funds to buy it. The prices for all pyrotechnical chemicals are absolutely ridiculous.

[10fingers]

My guess would be that theatrical flash is just slower burning than standard flash powder. They have something safer to use on a set and they can always dub in the BOOM. It may be a NaNO3/Al or just a coarser mixture of a standard KClO4/Al powder. It may be dangerous to try to ball mill it to get it finer.
I would not buy it to make a BOOM type flash unless I knew exactly what was in it.
Isn't making regular flash fairly cheap and simple?

<small>[ May 31, 2002, 03:53 AM: Message edited by: 10fingers ]</small>

[inferno]

In some places it may be cheap, however here ive found it to be very very very expensive, Al powder costs massive sums here (in australia) and chlorates/perchlorates/permanganates are no better..however you may be lucky and strike a cheap al dealer, as all the oxidisers ive seen on american sites are really cheap

[10fingers]

*

<small>[ June 01, 2002, 10:57 PM: Message edited by: 10fingers ]</small>

[vulture]

If you have it in Oz, try to find a somewhat older painting/chemist store. They usually stock everything you need for explosives and pyro. Virtually every precursor has a innocent use in painting or very related stuff. I pay something like 30$ voor a kg of airfloat Al powder at such a store.

[S. Toppholzer]

Well, I tried the mixing method with acetone.
The result was sort of strange. The resulting dried powder now looks pretty much like powdered brass after the KMnO4 dried. I couldn't light it with a cigarette butt. I didn't try anything else yet because I would have to drive a fwe miles since I am living in an overpopulated area with nosy neighbours.

[xoo1246]

I tried it out. It worked well. If you haven't seen it, then it's in the forum pics and videos post.
Here are the links:
<a href="http://w1.478.telia.com/~u47802930/Flash01.jpg" target="_blank">http://w1.478.telia.com/~u47802930/Flash01.jpg</a>
<a href="http://w1.478.telia.com/~u47802930/Flash02.jpg" target="_blank">http://w1.478.telia.com/~u47802930/Flash02.jpg</a>
<a href="http://w1.478.telia.com/~u47802930/Flash03.jpg" target="_blank">http://w1.478.telia.com/~u47802930/Flash03.jpg</a>
<a href="http://w1.478.telia.com/~u47802930/Flash04.jpg" target="_blank">http://w1.478.telia.com/~u47802930/Flash04.jpg</a>
<a href="http://w1.478.telia.com/~u47802930/Flash05.jpg" target="_blank">http://w1.478.telia.com/~u47802930/Flash05.jpg</a>

[vulture]

xoo, is that KMnO4/Al/S? It seems pretty OK to me, did you add some coarse Al to get those sparks?

[xoo1246]

It's sulfurless. The Al is around 80u(micro)m. I couldn't see any sparks, I was blinded. :)
Next time I'll probably try it with 25um
Could someone explain this mesh system, I don't really get it. I understand you pass the particles through a mesh, but how large is the particles if you have, say 400 mesh?

[Zambosan]

Mesh refers to how many little holes per square inch are in the mesh used to separate the fine product from the coarse. Do a search on flash and eBay here on the forum, someone paid too much for a text file a while ago, but it did contain a mesh-micron conversion chart, IIRC.

[xoo1246]

Yeah, that much I did understand. Thanks for the tip, I remember that post.

[krimmie]

The following mesh-micron conversion table was taken from skylighter's catalog. It also shows a "typical material" of similar size. Note that the mesh sizes in parentheses are too small to exist as actual sieves;they were included for reference.

U.S. Mesh / Inches / Microns / Typical Material
14 / .056 / 1400 /
28 / .028 / 700 / beachsand
60 / .0098 / 250 / fine sand
100 / .0059 / 150 /
200 / .0030 / 74 / portland cement
325 / .0017 / 44 / silt
400 / .0015 / 37 / plant pollen
(1200) / .0005 / 12 / red blood cell
(2400) / .0002 / 6
(4800) / .0001 / 2 / cigarette smoke

* Like I said, this was taken from the Skylighter catalog, I have no reason to believe it's not accurate.Sorry I couldn't organize it into better columns-I suck at that stuff!

<small>[ June 03, 2002, 08:40 PM: Message edited by: krimmie ]</small>

[xoo1246]

Thanks, that is the same as in the "ebay flash"-post

[kingspaz]

get this back on topic guys.

[kanbayat]

I've been making and using flash since 1971.I have tried all known formulas and some I came up with on my own. I have never had flash go up by itself in 100's of batches I've mixed small and large.however if you scrape a clorate al/sulpher mix it will explode.or cracle in small amounts(tiny).perclorate flash,I have never been able to make it go from friction. just yesterday I had a 70/30 industry standard mix..put a small pile on concret sidewalk and beat it to a pulp with a hammer..nothing. one stroke of clorate /al would have thumped quite nicly.
whatever you do you must not be afraid of flash. hmtd/double salts and the rest are much,much more sensitive than a perclorate/al mix.In the 19th century,maroons,cannaon crackers and the like were clorate ,sulp,and charcoal. then with advent of al,and mag. the flash cracker we all love today was borne.they used flowers of sulpher in millions of them then with clorate.I myself have made many hundreds of clorate/sulpher/al mixes without mishap.the standard 70/30 perclorate/al is many times safer than the fulminates,ap,and other primary compounds most of you have tried.anything will explode in triangles. even matchheads...it is relatively safe. years ago I found a salute I had made 8 months earlier in my basement back east that had fallen behind a table. the tube was all mushy from being in the basement all that time. It was clorate/al/sulpher! lol..pretty dumb,but that shows the nature of the animal..if you follow safe procedures you should have no trouble with 70/30 perclorate/al or even antimony trisulphide flash.just my oppinon from years of makeing it.

[killa_snake]

omg the other day i lit about 13 kilos of flash powder. woa it hink i made the big bang all over again i was like at lease 20-30 meters away and i got sunburns iwore sunglasses out of glass but they cracked it was in a spectial hard plastic casing i wore earplugs earmufs coved my head in a hat and put a rag over my ears but i almost got deafented. defenatly never doing that again there was no sharpnel iunno y i guess the plastic vapurized intantly the trees that were beside the powder were slightly charred black

[vulture]

How the fuck could you type this post, assuming you've been blinded by 13kg of flash that cracked your sunglasses???

POSER! :rolleyes:

[Hang-Man]

was no sharpnel iunno y i guess the plastic vapurized intantly
That is by far the dumbest thing I have ever read. I'm going to go hit my head on the wall until I forget I read it. I'm sorry but when you’re that stupid the government should step in and kill you.
(note my use of real words)

[Rhadon]

Killa_snake has to see a doctor and will be leaving us now :D

[Flake2m]

The only thing more spectacular then 13kg of flash going off would be 13kg of flash going off stuck up killa_snakes ass :D.
Serously though, I have a bag of metal filings which I got by cleaning the key cutter at work. I can probaly get some KMnO4 from a pharmacy. Now what I am asking is given that the filings aren't extremely fine - its about the consistincy of cut up needles and the metal filings seem to be fairly unreactive. I am wondering if a key cutting mix + KMnO4 would actually work.
Maybe I'd need to add an extra "ingrediant" to make it more reactive.

[Bert]

Shouldn't this thread be in "pyrotechnics"?

Keys aren't usualy made out of Aluminum or Magnesium...
And the scrap from a key cutter is WAY too large for use in a report mixture, even if it were an appropriate metal.

As far as the original topic(s) of this thread: Flash covers so many possible mixes made by so many methods the question can't be answered without specifying mix, particle size and production method.

Theatrical flash is usualy Nitrate based because if you put Perchlorate/Al flash in a steel concussion mortar it may blow the mortar to pieces. Common 2 part formulations are often a Nitrate and an EXCESS ammount of Mg powder. They produce a cloud of Mg vapor that burns in the air over the flash pot- Safer than having a better ballanced, more brissant mix.
You may find something called "airburst" more similar to flash used in fireworks.