Explosive absorbed into clothing.

[megalomania]

I have heard a rumor of a new type of terrorist explosive that is apparently absorbed into clothing. The explosive in question is the product of Hamas. It is a lightweight, low density liquid compound that can apparently be detonated by blasting cap.

Does anyone have any clue as to what this compound might be?

[Ansgar]

Well,
Astrolite can be soaked into soil and be detonated like that so why not clothes. However it is very toxic so it is probably something else.

[IDTB]

Sounds highly interesting, but are you sure HAMAS is the compound and not an acronym for the group using it?

I did a google and the only thing I'm coming up with is:
Hamas is the Arabic acronym for "The Islamic Resistance Movement" (Harakat al-Muqawamah al-Islamiyya). The organizational and ideological sources of Hamas can be found in the movement of the Muslim Brotherhood (MB) which was set up in the 1920s in Egypt and renewed and strengthened its activity in the 1960s and 1970s in the Arab world, mainly in Jordan and Egypt.

More on HAMAS here (http://www.ict.org.il/inter_ter/orgdet.cfm?orgid=13)

[MrSamosa]

He said that the explosive was the "product of HAMAS." Don't worry, we all misread things once in a while :) . Anyhow, this doesn't seem so difficult. It reminds me of a certain "disappeared" forum Member who absorbed NM and dissolved Ammonium Nitrate into Cotton Balls. In fact, I'm sure many liquid explosives could be absorbed in cotton or clothing. I don't think it would be too good for the skin, though ;). But it seems kinda difficult to detonate the whole garment so that all of it would go off simultaneously rather than one part detonating another sympathetically.

Maybe the explosive clothing could be disguised as dirty laundry? Thus, it wouldn't look so funny if it were rolled up, and it would be much easier to detonate.

Also, wasn't Nitrocellulose discovered when some chemist spilled a Nitric/Sulfuric Acid mix, and then cleaned it up with his wife's kitchen apron??

[Rosco Bodine]

From my own experiments with coprecipitated 50/50 MEKP/AP ,
it would sure do the trick if soaked into plain cotton , or paper
toweling , and it would only require a minimal detonator to
get it to high order . Of course there could be no skin contact
due to the severe burns which would result , so the idea of
saturating clothing with the stuff would not work unless the
skin was protected some way .

I can think of nothing that would be a useful liquid explosive
that would not also be too toxic in skin contact for any "drench
and shoot applications " .

[Blackhawk]

Also one would think any MEKP or NG based 'soggy shirt' would really smell, enough so that people would notice that you are drenched in something.

[blindreeper]

I would be worried about it evaporating, most liquid explosives are fairly volatile.

[Ansgar]

Maybe they just nitrate their clothes heavily, being mainly cotton sheet fabrics they wear down there anyway - (Sorry bad joke... :-)

[Flake2m]

I dont think it would be too hard for a terrorist to absorb explosives into ones clothing. An explosive compound could be dissolved into a solvent such as acetone, toluene etc and then the item of clothing soaked in the solution. The solvent is then left to evapourate. As the solvent evapouates the crystals of the compound will become inbedded into the clothing. The bigger and thicker the garmet the more explosive it ould hold. The solution waould also need to be saturated or super saturated.
This method probaly wouldn't hold much of the compound but that would be my best guess into how HAMAS gets explosive compounds into clothing.
A liquid explosive would be less likely to work as it would most probaly evapourate. Also the item of clothing would appear wet or soggy if it was worn.

[zeocrash]

i wouldn't rule out the possibility that this explosive is harmfull to our skin, after all it is designed for suicide bombers, and the condition of their skin isn't going to be the main thing on their minds

[megalomania]

I should clarify the explosive is technicially "liquified" and not naturally in the liquid state. Letting AP absorb into cloth sounds highly probable to me. Considering it is a low tech terror faction we are talking about here it is not very likely they are using some exotic compound, just using an oridinary explosive in an unusual way.

I believe the intent is for the terrorists to wear the explosive clothing to get past checkpoints, remove it, and stash it somewhere where it is assembled into a larger device. Several individuals acting in unison would wear the cloths in and combine the cloths.

I doubt this would get past high security checkpoints using bomb sniffing dogs and other advanced bomb detecting equipment, but it would suffice for security checkpoints using x-ray, metal dectors, or strip searching. The checkpoints Israel uses to screen Palestineans comes to mind. On the other hand, don't modern explosive detecting machines only look for the presence of unusually high concentrations of nitrogen? AP has no nitrogen... It still would not fool dogs, they are trained to smell over 10,000 explosives.

Really though, how powerful could a bundle of cloths be? The density would be very low, it would have to be a sensitive explosive to be detonated to begin with.

I would think it would be easier to sow some sheet plastic explosive into the lining of a jacket and mold it after passing the checkpoint.

[PHAID]

Could the explosive in question just be Guncotton?

I think it would be possible to treat 100% cotton clothing the same as regular Guncotton.

[fire vs. water]

I really doubt it,
think about wearing guncotton, it's insane, even if you wanted to do a suicide bombing.
It's just too unstable, i supposed a strong enough accidental hit would be enough to set it off,
you would have to treat yourself (your clothing) as if you were made of glass.

[nuclearattack]

I think the explosive in question could be Sprengel explosive.
Sprengel explosives were introduced in 1871 by Herman Sprengel, they are composed by strong nitric acid and a fuel. Sprengel explosives can be made also by clothes and paper towels nitration, generally they are brisant and easy to manufacture.
There is only the problem of the density...
I read about Sprengel explosives in: "Explosives and propellants from commonly available materials" by Desert Publications.

[Third_Rail]

Uh, isn't guncotton just nitrated cellulose? If it is, why would you have to treat it like it was glass??

[Bert]

I'd be much more worried about someone SMOKING around a guncotton suit of clothes, assuming it had been properly washed and neutralized. Neutralizing unchopped fibrous guncotton is a bitch. Why not just dissolve PETN in an appropriate solvent and impregnate cloth with the solution?

[PHAID]

I would go for a 2 part liquid explosive and try to find one that the ingrediants didnt set off sensors or the dogs.

Then you just mix it when your ready for the bang.

[CommonScientist]

Situation - The dogs smell the explosive, and it wasnt trained very well, as its an old attack dog, and it pounces at the guy, setting off the explosive, killing him and the dog, and possibly setting off other members of the terrorist group's clothing.

That of course would be a worst case senario.

Im sure we arnt talking about a sports coat here are we? I didnt think they could hold a lot of explosive in this situation. I would use a winter parka or something, with just the liner soaked. Im sure that would hold a lot of explosive! But they are based in the desert, so they probably wouldnt be wearing a parka.

[static_firefly]

Yeah it might seem a little strange an arab in the desert dressed up in thick thermal ski suit :p. Perhaps they soak what they wear in an AP solution then have the main charges strapped to there body. If a solider decides to shoot any of his cloathing, bang.

[Rolfiboy]

Sorry but guncotton are not very sensitive to shock, it is very flammable and VERY unsensitive to shock!

If a person with a guncotton coat, catch fire in a crowd, it will only be the person with the coat and maybe some people close too him there was hurt.

But if the person couldt take the coat of and compress it, and place a powerfull detonater in it, it will "maybe" detonate. If it detonate, the explosion actually will be powerfull.

[a_bab]

fire vs. water, the guncotton is not THAT shock sensitive. You can't set the thing off that easy by percussion. Actually it's difficult to detonate it. It's used as a propellant rather than as HE. But as Bert said, the fire is a big issue. I think even the static is a problem in this case (remember the Hindenburg disaster ?)

What I personally believe is that one can soak a PART of the chloth (maybe the interior to avoid the dusting) with a saturated solution of the needed explosive, and can pass SOME checkpoints. The idea is to sneak explosive in an guarded area. It's not like carying a ready made bomb with the charge and the schrapnel which will draw the attention expecially if x-rayed.

[lucas]

A large number of suicide bombings in palestine and israel use TNT extracted from dud artillery shells, initiated by AP. AP is, as I read in a credible article on the topic of suicide bombings, not detected by dogs, despite being the main primary used by the bomb engineers over there. I dont think AP is being smuggled in that way, since it's not needed in large amounts, which require such types of smuggling.

[Zeitgeist]

I read in one of the scientific periodicals ages ago, that explosive detectors vacuum up dust from the object, and pass it over a red hot metal grid, even tiny traces of explosives will deflagate and cause a flash which is detected electronically, they said this system could detect things based on AN and BP, accounting for over half of homemade bombs.

[Wahur]

Couldn't plastic exploseives placed between two layers of the cloth do the trick?

[Desmikes]

Explosive-saturated clothes are not good for much. 1st of all, no matter what the explosive is the power is going to be pathetic, 2nd if you are trying to get past security that is not using dogs, then you can easily fill up your electric shaver case, inside of a suitcase, shampoo bottle, toothpaste container... (you can proly even pull these off with dogs present if you seal well enough, just make sure that you pack them far away from your luggage).
How about the fact that once you are inside the inner airport you are free to roam around for a while and there is no other security check when you actually board the plane? What if a few couples (women with nail polish remover and health-freak men who need conc. H2O2 to make oxygen-enriched drinking water) went through a security check and gave all of their liquids to some pissed-at-all Muhammad, who at night went to an abandoned restroom... After all, it is better to get pulled out for carrying moderate amount of flammable liquid as opposed to detonatable.

[CommonScientist]

Desmikes - Are you implying that you he makes the AP in the restroom of a Airport? That sounds ridiculous to me , not only do you need an ice bath, hydrochloric acid, other lab tools , such as glass ware, and who isnt going to smell the fumes? I dont think it could be possible to make AP in an airport with all the security and such.

[markgollum]

Actually, I don’t think that the idea of making AP in an airport is that farfetched.
A terrorist could sneak the acetone, H2O2, and HCl past security, in opaque wine bottles, and if they are professionally sealed, security wont ask to open them . Then once he/she is in the waiting area past security, he/she goes into the janitors closet and mixes the chems without very much temp control. Why should a suicide bomber care whether he is making dimeric or trimeric AP ?.
And about airport security, yes it has been increased since that fateful day, (you get checked twice now, they have two people watching the monitor to the X ray machine, and at some terminals they have a explosives sniffing machine ). So, I think a terrorist probably has a better shot at making the explosive material on site, than getting a pre made charge through security.
Now that I got to thinking, I wonder whether carbonated water (CO2 and carbonic acid in equilibrium) would serve as a lousy substitute for HCl?. Because if it worked it would really get weird, “watch out for club soda wielding terrorists”LOL.
Anyhow, the title of this thread was explosive absorbed into clothing.
On the subject of explosives absorbed into clothing I agree that in the case that hamas does not have any advanced explosives, it is probably NC, EGDN, NG, NM, PGDN, or crystals of a solid explosive formed in the clothing by the evaporation of a saturated solution of explosive and solvent.

[cutefix]

I'd be much more worried about someone SMOKING around a guncotton suit of clothes, assuming it had been properly washed and neutralized. Neutralizing unchopped fibrous guncotton is a bitch. Why not just dissolve PETN in an appropriate solvent and impregnate cloth with the solution? :cool:

It sounds like a sensible idea....But I have not heard this was tried in practice ( what I mean is soaking the cotton fabric in the acetone solution of PETN. Then letting it dry.wear it and change clothes and make a bomb of the explosive permeated clothing.).
As PETN is odorless and colourless and PETN is insoluble in water and non toxic( if compared to other nitrated ester such as nitroglycerine , methyl nitrate and nitroglycol.)
. By the time the PETN recrystallized in extremely fine crystals and have attached itself to the cotton fiber it will be not be easy to remove it by laundry.
The way to do it is to make a saturated solution of PETN in acetone and then soak an ordinary cotton shirt in it( should be white as colours can be possibly smeared by the solvent effect of acetone).
Arabs by themselves love to wear such kind of clothing the call as disdashah or thobe.
Considering the size of that clothing that looks like a priest robe. If that is permeated with PETN and bundled into a wad or lump it can create a considerable havoc to its victims especially if its enhanced by bits of improvised shrapnel.
Try to imagine a bathrobe soaked with explosives bundled up primed and detonated. Maybe much more powerful than an explosive belt they usually use.

Let that particular clothing dry in air. Now if the person making it still find some traces of acetone smell he can selectively rinse it with water once and let it dry again.But the best way is just letting it dry and wear it.
Now if the supposed bomber want to create mayhem he can just go to the toliet and change to another shirt of the same kind and roll the clothing into a tight wad and place a detonator then set the timer. Or if he is suicide bomber he can carry into the crowd detonate it.
IIRC ,This idea was borrowed possiibly from the Improvised munition handbook.
A good suggestion is to have from some one of this forum to try this idea using their worn out clothing and see how it works.... :D

[chokingvictim78]

What if the bomber were to impregnate his clothing with PETN with a solvent, but instead of detonating the clothing, took solvent into the airport, went into the janitors closet, rinsed the clothes in the solvent, and let the solvent evaporate? Acetone is volatile enough to evaporate quickly, and the bomber would be left with solid PETN again. That would be a lot more practical than actually making something in the bathroom with chemicals smuggled into the airport. Hell, you might even be able to find acetone in the janitors closet anyways, eliminating the need for bringing any chemicals.

[cutefix]

What if the bomber were to impregnate his clothing with PETN with a solvent, but instead of detonating the clothing, took solvent into the airport, went into the janitors closet, rinsed the clothes in the solvent, and let the solvent evaporate?.
:confused: :p
Unless the bomber is stupid or ignorant that solvent wet PETN is not very sensitive to detonators.
During transport of explosives the hazardous cargo which is the HE is usually wet for more safety as a dry explosive is very dangerous to transport.
Look even in the manufacture of certain ammunitions the processor will directly use a water wet PETN or RDX and add the other ingredients to the batch.
Therefore why would somebody wear and clothing that is dripping wet with solvent. Is he trying to catch fire and make himself a walking fireball?
It that is what in h mind he will not waste his time procuring PETN.Rather he will just douse himself with gasoline and self immolate himself.
But if he walks into the airport corridor which is equipped with a nitrate sniffing devices even its clothes is bonedry with PEIN microcrystalls in it he will set of the detector that can detect nitrates from explosives.
Another analogy.
Just compare with nitroglycerine add a suitable solvent in it to about 70/30 ratio and then dry to detonate it normally.
It may or may not be set off unless you are using a booster with the detonator..
[QUOTE=chokingvictim78]Acetone is volatile enough to evaporate quickly, and the bomber would be left with solid PETN again. That would be a lot more practical than actually making something in the bathroom with chemicals smuggled into the airport. Hell, you might even be able to find acetone in the janitors closet anyways, eliminating the need for bringing any chemicals.[/QOUTE]
Indeed acetone is volatile but if the PETN is dispersed in it in solution what do you think is the principle of its reappearance later on? It is recrystallization .
I think you do not get the idea nor understand the physical and chemical characterisiticis of Pentaerythritol tetranitrate(PETN).
If you want to prove it try to procure PETN ( if you can find it :p ) and make an experiment yourself. See if PETN absorbed in an absorptive fibrous material will soldify into lumps upon the complete evaporation of the solvent from the absorptive fabric.
The crux of the idea is to disguise the explosive as usually authorities look for tangible evidence of explosive in solid block or in lumps but not in finely dispersed material that is visually invisible.
Just what as I mentioned he just removed the clothing and change to a new garb and form it into a wad , insert a detonator and possbly a fuse or a timer then set it off in a short span of time
If somebody has a clothing laden with crystalline explosive nobody will stop him by just visual inspection.
Therefore he can virtually go unchecked and unsuspected.
If your idea is just to recrystallize the PETN and press it into a mass suitable for placing a detonator that would be too much hassle and my encourage detection. But normally PETN will not just form a single lump when dissolved in solvent and then dried. It will come out as coarse crystals. Assembling a bomb by compressing the recrystallized PETN will be a hassle aswell and possibly arouse suspicion. In addition It will be more time consuming but and may end up with more errors that will led to failures.

[cutefix]

I have heard a rumor of a new type of terrorist explosive that is apparently absorbed into clothing. The explosive in question is the product of Hamas. It is a lightweight, low density liquid compound that can apparently be detonated by blasting cap.

Does anyone have any clue as to what this compound might be?


It that exist as pure liquid explosive it will have some form of odour that can arouse suspicion.
Therefore the only possible way is to dissolve a cryslalline explosive in a solvent which it is highly soluble and let it dry.
A dry clothes with explosive impregnated in its fiber makes more sense.
But I am not discounting the possibility that so called liquid explosive.( if it exist an not easily detectable).
For the time being I cannot think of any liquid explosive that has innocous characterisitics that make it undetectable.
Most of the known liquid explosive are toxic.

[chokingvictim78]

Cutefix- My idea was to impregnate the clothing with the explosive, then, once you're inside of wherever you were going, you rinse the explosive out with a solvent, evaporate the solvent, and are then left with the explosive re-crystallized, not to wear the clothing while still wet with solvent. Maybe it was impractical, and of course it would be detected by any sort of bomb detection device, be it a dog or a machine, but so would any other idea in this thread, as they all involve the explosive being on your clothing. Yes, it is impractical to re-crystallize it and press it into a mass, but it seems more practical than making AP in the bathroom, which was given serious consideration in this thread. If I can find PETN? Come on, I didn't say anything stupid enough to deserve that comment, maybe it was just a lame idea.

[Wicked1]

MMM, as for chem burns on skin.... anyone heard of liquid latex? :) like a giant condom for the body. :cool:

[Wild Catmage]

The effects of moisture (from the body or from rain/snow etc.) may be a probablem, especially with more water sensitive explosives. this would only be an issue while the person was wearing the clothing, as once it was rolled up and stashed somewhere, it would be less prone to getting soaked.

[Rosco Bodine]

Sorbitan Tetranitrate is probably the liquid explosive
that is being used . High power , low volatility and odor ,
and low physiological activity , think of it as dermatologist
recommended nitro .

GB924239 for details

[cutefix]

Sorbitan Tetranitrate is probably the liquid explosive
that is being used . High power , low volatility and odor ,
and low physiological activity , think of it as dermatologist
recommended nitro .

GB924239 for details

Sorbitan nitrates are viscous liquids that can be white to brownish in colour.Now if its absorbed in clothing it can be obvious and the person carrying it might be noticed why he is wearing a syrupy looking clothing.
Indeed it may have lesser toxicity if compared to other liquid nitric esters .
Nobody will wear anything that will catch somebody's attention.

[Rosco Bodine]

Have some imagination and you'll see that the
way this liquid raghead homicide bomber explosive
is intended to be used is soaked into a baby's diaper .
With a big wad of shit for diverting interest in any
close inspection , the parent martyr simply carries
little baby martyr right past the checkpoint and
proceeds to the usual target of choice , a busload
of jews or other infidels , preferably with a bunch
more kids along with them for the ride . Kaboom !
Little Muhammeds ass blows up and the dirty deed
is done .

[cutefix]

That seems funny, :)
If the tot is wearing a diaper with shit that will catch more the attention of the would be victims with the visual appearance and even smell.
Now if it looks really dirty and somebody will notice that if its looks like shit why it does not smell like one. It may arouse suspicion…
If the supposed bomber will alight a bus or go to the crowded area the appearance will surely hard to ignore specially with the security conscious Israelis.
Even if the colour is just due to real child shit it will have a smell specially in a crowded area where air cannot circulate well.
People who smell the familiar child poo may disperse before he had time to press the detonating button. Therefore defeating the purpose.
.In addition the psychology of the suicide bomber is willful self destruction…But they do it alone never with an unwilling accomplice( which they believe is against their religion). They have no feelings anyway against their would be target( even if it includes innocent victims.
I had stayed in the middle east and lived with these arabs for sometime therefore I understand something about their mental frame.
Then how could an infant be a willing accomplice if the would be bomber is a religious fanatic.
If you will only note the deep anger of would be bomber against their target even with women as suicide bombers they remain sensible not take any of their unwilling kin to such a dastardly mission. If they are hellbent in creating such havoc they do not even tell their relatives about their diabolical plan.
But they are counting on that if their offspring will grow up and attain a realization that the coexistence with the Israelis is futile and hopeless;it will be the judicious will of next bomber( emulating the works of his relative whom he believe is already in paradise waiting for him) to destroy himself carrying lots of enemy casualties to their explosive end.
But what the original poster may have in mind are:
a liquid explosive that is absorbed in the garment but not noticeable to security personnel so it will enable him to succeed in his particular terrorist operation
“It is lightweight low density compound that can be detonated with a blasting cap”
Therefore if such liquid explosive do exist it cannot be the common nitric esters such as nitroglycerine, nitroglycol and other polyhydric alcohol which are viscous.
If its used only as component in improvised bombs Hmnn….
Maybe methyl or even ethyl nitrate ( is lighter and low density)but it will not be absorbed in clothing( as its very volatile) but will placed in a container to be practically useful This particular liquid explosive is easily detonated with an improvised blasting cap.
But it cannot be smuggled easily either. But I do not discount that they may have already used this simple nitric esters in their improvised bombs.

[Ropik]

When somebody soaks his clothes with AP/acetone solution and let it dry, it can be really harmful for various attack - he just says: "This is Hamas attack and when somebody hit me, we are all on the sky" and when some cop shot him, aircraft is on shred instantly... Yes, probably not in shreds, but damaged enough to refuse staying in the air.

[hereno]

Could the explosive in question just be Guncotton?

I think it would be possible to treat 100% cotton clothing the same as regular Guncotton.

Nitrating cotton clothes is quite difficult, ive ummm... tried it. Very prone to runaway since you have to add it all at once and a lot more dense then common cotton balls. If it was to be successful you would need to use a huge excess of chilled mixed acid to keep the temperature under control.

Cotton sheet wont sustain a detonation, 3 layers thick it still wont, I never went any thicker. The best method would be to nitrate cotton balls and stuff a quilted jacket with the fluff. Protected from ignition and will detonate in a 3/4" layer even if at a low density. Its effect would be a bit questionable however, there aint much explosive weight in fluff.

[alf]

If you walk with your explosive clothes, take care with smokers!!
Better to use the old OSS Aunt Jemima (HMX with flour) It can be bnaked also.
Regarding explosive fibers, in The spy's workshop book, the writer tells that you can extrude RDX and nitrocelulose with acetone to make textile fibers.

[Silentnite]

OK, this is an old thread, but I was reading through and thinking about the AP soaked clothes or the NG and thinking: What if they got through the detection and wanted to celebrate?

*Hey Way to go buddy* *Yeah, give me a high-five* ......BOOOM!

What about having a coat with a liner, and just pouring AP in? Make a pat down interesting. *Are you carrying anything metal, has everything been in your possesion the entire time*... BOOM!

But all good for causing havok, and I think thats the aim of the terrorists.

[nbk2000]

I've got a copy of an article about exploding clothes that I'll be scanning in and uploading shortly.

[nbk2000]

As promised, the OCR'd article.

[Boomer]

Sounds a little incredible to me! NaClO3 plus cotton makes a fuse, but they say it detonated in the open. Hard to believe IMO.

Plus, they say washing the clothes made no difference. With the high solubility of NaClO3, it should be washed out completely.

Probably the media went wild again, like calling a boy building BP crackers a terrorist... :mad:

[nbk2000]

Take it for what its worth.

[Jacks Complete]

Surely the best way to attack with a liquid explosive would be to put it in a bottle and re-seal it?
Hell, 2 liters of conc. HNO3 and H2SO4, mixed with a little mineral oil, would be a deadly weapon for a plane, even without explosives.

There would be no way to tell it from a bottle of wine if it was dark glass and sealed, with the right label on it. 2Kg of pure nitroglycerine would be hard to carry, but desensitised a little, capped and washed, there would be no odour for a dog to find. No messing with a detonator, either, just "christen" the plane by breaking the bottle on the captain's door...

[cutefix]

Sounds a little incredible to me! NaClO3 plus cotton makes a fuse, but they say it detonated in the open. Hard to believe IMO.

Plus, they say washing the clothes made no difference. With the high solubility of NaClO3, it should be washed out completely.


Yes, even me find it difficult to believe : that a cloth steeped with sodium chlorate could explode in the open. It may catch fire like nitrocellulose if ignited.
And knowing the hygroscopicity and solubility of such salt, it could have been washed out during laundry. But sometimes farm workers are just too lazy to wash their clothes if they cannot find any signficant amount of dirt on soil in it.

[Diabolique]

I read in 'The Black Books - vol. 3" that PETN is dissolved in warm acetone with a little mineral oil to form a saturated solution, and sheets of newspaper are soled in it and allowed to dry. An average sized tabloid would be like a stick of dynamite.

Wouldn't the same be true for clothing?

Also, there are many technologies that scan for explosives. Some use UV light and look at the fluorescence. Others sniff the trace vapors and use their time of flight when elctrostatically charged and put into an electric field. Another uses neutrons to cause the nitrogen to give off a gamma ray, and its power tells that a nitro compound is present, but not which one. It also can be confused by chlorine ( airport screener: "I thought it was TNT, but it was only Cheddite. Shucks.") There are also gas chromatograph techniques as well. I've just started learning about explosives detection.

[me1]

Some people have talked about the smell of the clothing. If the clothing is carried and not worn a Space bag would keep people from smelling it, but any explosive residue on the outside would be detected by dogs.

[Lewis]

I just saw an episode of Myth Busters in which they deal with the story of exploding clothing on New Zealand farmers.

In usual Myth Busters fashion, they did completely bogus tests and didn't even supply the name of the chemical (Sodium Chlorate). However, they did illustrate how it made cotton clothing burn quickly, but not explode.

In the end, they got bored of actually dealing with Sodium Chorate, and just decided to paint some sort of HE on the clothes for entertainment's sake.

So much for exploding pants.

[Nihilist]

Instead of soaking existing clothing in a liquid explosive...why not make the clothes themselves from nitrocellulose? They could weave clothes spun from NC, and then soak them in some higher order HE that the NC would serve as a primary for.

[mil&co]

NC as primary is highly unlikely.

Best way to smuggle NC trough security is to use it as filling for large jackets, no (or little) fire hazard, especially when in hand luggage.

Then, when on the target site, compress the NC, someway make it more sensitive (gatorade bottles with some sort of sensitive liquid explosive come to mind) and detonate by an AP filled ballpoint.

[cutefix]

Maybe initiated by static electicity....:D take note NC is highly combustible.....

[Cindor]

But you are looking for a detonation, not a fire...


I've got an idea: instead of AP or HMTD or any other suspicious material a detonator could be improvised in a plain with matches.

If the Red Phosphorus of the box is powdered and mixed with the powdered head of the match you can get a really powerful mix, and like you are a suicide you just don't care about mixing Red Phosphorus and Chlorate.

[c.Tech]

I've got an idea: instead of AP or HMTD or any other suspicious material a detonator could be improvised in a plain with matches.

Those mixtures don't detonate they deflagrate and may not have enough power to detonate many explosives.

and like you are a suicide you just don't care about mixing Red Phosphorus and Chlorate.

Actually you would.

IMO a red phosphorus and chlorate mix is more sensitive than neutralised AP, very small amounts of friction or shock can set off that mixture whilst AP can be freely moved around, scraped off surfaces and someone has even ground it. Although they are not a good idea it has been done, Armstrong's mix (chlorate and red P) wouldn’t survive under those situations.

What’s the point of making a bomb if it’s likely to detonate before it reaches its target?

[Cindor]

Those mixtures don't detonate they deflagrate and may not have enough power to detonate many explosives.


Say that to Alfred Nobel who made detonators with Black Powder for his Dynamite, and BP doesn't detonate.
Detonator doesn't means that the detonator reachs detonation, but the detonator detonates the rest of the explosive


What’s the point of making a bomb if it’s likely to detonate before it reaches its target?

And what's the point of been caught and can get the explosives inside the plain ?

+++++++++


And what's the point of been caught and can get the explosives inside the plain ?


Is this a coherent sentence? NBK

[Bert]

Say that to Alfred Nobel who made detonators with Black Powder for his Dynamite

Nobel briefly used black powder to initiate nitroglycerine. He had moved on to using fulminate in caps before patenting dynamite.

[cutefix]

But you are looking for a detonation, not a fire...


Lots of explosive accidents related to of guncotton, during production,transport and storage was started by static electricity....

A compacted bale of guncotton will likely explode by DDT than just burn...

[c.Tech]

Say that to Alfred Nobel who made detonators with Black Powder for his Dynamite, and BP doesn't detonate.
Detonator doesn't means that the detonator reachs detonation, but the detonator detonates the rest of the explosive
I never said that deflag mixtures cannot detonate some explosives, notice I used the word ‘many’ in my previous post?

Using dynamite as an example doesn’t support your view most people here know that dynamite is made with nitroglycerine, a sensitive explosive which even when stabilised would detonate with a deflag mixture. Now try comparing it with ANFO.

And what's the point of been caught and can get the explosives inside the plain ?
Use proper sentences and maybe your reply may persuade someone to your views, it also had the advantage of not making a fool out of yourself. :)

P.S. Is it deflag or defrag, I know deflagrate is right. I’m a little confused with that word and its abbreviation.

[nbk2000]

You defrag (defragment) a hard drive, but NC deflagerates/deflagerated.

But it's easier to just say burn/burns/burning/burned

[Cindor]

I totally forgot about this thread !!! Haha
The question should say:
And what's the point of been caught and CAN'T get the explosives inside the plane ?

PS: Sorry for replying so late.

[fastkiller762]

In my opinion, this explosive could be PETN dissolved in acetone, soaking with the explosive and let dry. This same method could be used to make explosive paper..

[Yafmot]

A big enough fire would bring down an aircraft just as easily as any explosive, and the goods would be a lot easier to get on board. And knowing a few things about aircraft structural design, I can tell you that even if you could deliver say, a grenade-sized explosion, placement would still be critical. You'd need to get it right on a highly stressed, critical primary structure such as the lower main spar cap. And then you'd have to duct tape a sand or shot bag over the charge, to direct the force onto the intended failure point. Otherwise, all you'd do is kill or injure a handful of people, run up an expensive repair bill, and seriously piss-off everybody from the ATF to the FBI to DHS to the FAA to the NTSB to the Cub Scouts to the Ladies Garden Club.

On the other hand, You could soak a couple of T-shirts in 35% H2O2, let 'em react, wring 'em out & repeat, leaving them just wet enough to keep from lighting off (100% cotton shirts,of course). Then, when you get on the plane, ask the attendant if there's someplace to hang them up to dry, explaining that you didn't have time to toss them in the dryer and still catch your flight. It's very dry up there (about 6% humidity), so it wouldn't take long for them to dry out to the point that they go up in a very hot, unextinguishable conflagration. And since they'll likely hang them up in the coat closet, there should be other items that will catch as well. Also, there's usually a "walk around" O2 bottle in or near that area, and if that puppy lets go, you stand a damned good chance of scorching a cadillac-sized hole in the ship. If the closet is in the back, you might even burn the whole tailcone loose, or at least disable the APU(s), putting the crippled machine on battery power, thereby raising the "panic factor."

I would hasten to add that this little suggestion is PURELY HYPOTHETICAL, and I know a couple of agents on the FBIs Counterterrorism Task Force, whom I would immediately be in touch with at the slightest hint of anybody seriously contemplating such a scenario.

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Please use paragraph breaks - The_Duke