Shokwave from AP - archive file [Archive] - The Explosives and Weapons Forum

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zaibatsu

October 13th, 2002, 09:20 AM

DrTNT
A new voice
Posts: 17
From: - unknown -
Registered: NOV 2000
posted January 31, 2001 12:48 PM
Hi everybody!
I'm about to make a lot of AP (first I have to find 30% H2O2, but anyway) and I'd like to know what is the minimum amount of AP that can produce a destructive shockwave that can kill or seriously injure people. DO NOT THINK THAT I WANT TO KILL SOMEBODY. I just want to know that, because I do not want to create such dangerous explosion, and I'll put less AP than the amount needed to pruduce such shokwave. I know that this may sound violently, but I'll never attempt to do that stuff. And one more thing. How can I press those amounts into a container without being worried about an accident? Maybe I can use alcohol while pressing, but how it will dry?
Thanks.
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Keep the safety fuse long enough!
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NightStalker
Frequent Poster
Posts: 116
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 31, 2001 02:09 PM
Even creating this amounts is dangerous.
You would need a lot of aP to create such a shockwave, more than is safe to handle, a lot more....
The idea of compressing bigger amounts sounds like suicide to me. Even if it is wet it's still very dangerous and as less than one gramm, is able to penetrate 1mm steel you should not do that... you really shouldn't..

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Death stalks silently....

MasterMayhem
Frequent Poster
Posts: 84
From: Norway
Registered: OCT 2000
posted January 31, 2001 05:26 PM
Don't compress it, and use many small containers and tape them together, instead of one big (then the ap might go off by it's own weight).Like many small matchboxes,filmcannisters, or any other desireable casing.

MasterMayhem
Frequent Poster
Posts: 84
From: Norway
Registered: OCT 2000
posted January 31, 2001 05:27 PM
by the way DrTnT, i like the pictures on your webpage, please take more...

DrTNT
A new voice
Posts: 17
From: - unknown -
Registered: NOV 2000
posted January 31, 2001 07:20 PM
Thanks guys for help.
And what is the minimum amount (weight) of AP that can detonate by its own weight???
------------------
Keep the safety fuse long enough!
<a href="http://members.internettrash.com/drtnt" target="_blank">http://members.internettrash.com/drtnt</a>

SafetyLast
Frequent Poster
Posts: 232
From: the cretaceous period
Registered: OCT 2000
posted January 31, 2001 08:14 PM
that depends on how much it is washed and stuff like that.
If you had very well washed AP I think that the maximum you would be able to keep in one place without it detonating from its own weight would be about 600 grams but this is very unsafe and should be combined at the detonation site in 50 or 100 gram increments
that would be stored in seperate containers.
you should make a hole in the ground about a foot wide and a foot deep then add all of the AP to the hole and push a long fuse into the AP.
I have a quart of 30% H2O2 and thats enough to make about a kilo of AP.

ALENGOSVIG1
Moderator
Posts: 766
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: NOV 2000
posted January 31, 2001 09:56 PM
you could get "blast lungs"

knowledgehungry

October 22nd, 2002, 10:37 PM

I detonated about 5 grams of AP in a small tylenol bottle using about 1/2 gram of AP in a small vial as the detonater. The explosion was much larger than normal fuse detonated AP, I got blast chest from 40 feet away and it is still bothering me a little bit(3 days later), my mom got blast chest from inside my house <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> . With fuse detonations of that amount I don't get that much blast chest. Is detonating AP with AP something commonly done or does it not increase the effect of the blast?

kingspaz

October 23rd, 2002, 05:52 PM

not sure how commonly use it is but i know a few people here if they don't have a base charge they use AP detonated with an AP cap. DoV is improved by initiation with a cap.

carbonated

October 23rd, 2002, 07:05 PM

If your main charge is AP, detonating AP with AP is wiser since you will not handle the bigger main charge as much. It might be slightly more powerful detonated rather than with a fuse, maybe more powerful. Test anyone (no not me, sorry, AP scares me enough already!).

knowledgehungry

October 25th, 2002, 11:44 PM

If anybody wants to test it out remember to use AP from the same batch since different batches are, well, different. I'll test it out within the month but if anyone is impatient they can test it out first.

darkdontay

October 26th, 2002, 01:55 AM

Wow that was a powerful insite.. No one here would have thought of that..
Sorry but reading that just bothered me.

ShockWave

October 26th, 2002, 05:02 AM

I think AP has an extremly high VoD when it is molten, when a very small amount is on a allumiumfoil and you will heat it with a flam from below drom about 10-15cm, it will detonate with more power than NG I think.

The alluminiumfoil has become powder, but with NG it will not be that bad.

If we can find a way to make the AP a liquid maybe we have a very much stronger AP, but disolving it in a liquid will decompose the cristals right ?

Otherwise we could disolve maybe a few grams of AP in 1cm3!!?

vulture

October 26th, 2002, 08:13 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> think AP has an extremly high VoD when it is molten, when a very small amount is on a allumiumfoil and you will heat it with a flam from below drom about 10-15cm, it will detonate with more power than NG I think.<hr /></blockquote>NG is much more powerful than AP and not the other way round, also NG won't detonate reliable from flame, you need a cap.

knowledgehungry

October 26th, 2002, 10:51 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />If we can find a way to make the AP a liquid maybe we have a very much stronger AP, but disolving it in a liquid will decompose the cristals right ?<hr /></blockquote>I don't think this is true because many people will store AP in acetone, while they may lose a small amount of the AP it is not significant. I am going to try AP dissolved in acetone today, i will post the results later with pictures (hopefully).

ShockWave

October 26th, 2002, 12:54 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> NG is much more powerful than AP and not the other way round, also NG won't detonate reliable from flame, you need a cap <hr /></blockquote>Vulture, ofcourse is NG more powerfull then AP, But I found out that 1small drop of NG at the alluminiumfoil is not as powerfull as the same amount of AP at the alluminiumfoil, atleast, the foil is much more damaged, test it a few times and see.

I must say that when I want to detonate such a small amount of AP, it works 1 of the 10 times I try, the other 9 times the AP evaporates.

vulture

October 26th, 2002, 03:14 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Vulture, ofcourse is NG more powerfull then AP, But I found out that 1small drop of NG at the alluminiumfoil is not as powerfull as the same amount of AP at the alluminiumfoil, atleast, the foil is much more damaged, test it a few times and see. <hr /></blockquote>As i stated in my previous post, this is because NG will not detonate reliable from flame only!

ShockWave

October 26th, 2002, 03:21 PM

I did not detonate the NG in a flame, I had it in this foil which was pressed together, and heated it above the flame and did detonate, very very loud.

Anthony

October 26th, 2002, 04:24 PM

NG can detonate in both a high and low order fashion. The latter is still a detonation and appears so in all respects, but is considerably weaker that what it can do when driven by a good cap. IIRC we're talking something like 3000m/sec when it goes low order.

This may be what causes the NG to look weak compared to the AP.

ShockWave

October 26th, 2002, 04:55 PM

Allrighty then ! now I now it, thanks dude !

knowledgehungry

October 27th, 2002, 05:41 PM

Well the AP when dissolved in acetone failed to detonate, in fact it hardly burned, so no pictures :(. It wasn't even fully dissolved so lack of AP per Acetone was not an issue.

ShockWave

October 27th, 2002, 06:20 PM

too bad !

Is there not some kind of other liquid?
Or would that fail also ?

knowledgehungry

November 4th, 2002, 05:34 PM

I was thinkin something with high oxygen content might work since AP is oxygen deficient, but im not sure.

November 4th, 2002, 11:58 PM

knowladgehungrey, in your post you imply that you tryed to detonate your solution by ignighting it. If this is the case then this will almost certainly not work. To stand any chance of it working, you will need to detonate it, and you will probably need a very powerful detonator at that. I would try at least two grams, submerged in a saturated solution, with good confinement. If that doesnt work, go for a slurry of peroxide/ acetone which is more likely to work. However it is worth concidering efficiency, as this will almost certainly be affected, in a negtive way :( . Good luck, and keep us posted with the results

Aaron-V2.0

November 5th, 2002, 02:17 AM

If a liquid organic peroxide is what your seeking then why not try the anhydrous dimeric form of MethylEthylKetonePeroxide? From what I read it's a stable (Stable for a peroxide...) primary that needs a cap for detonation. There's an informative thread on MEKP and it's synth on the ScienceMadness.org's forums.

<a href="http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=20" target="_blank">http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=20</a>

I'm going to try synthesising it after my go at HMTD because A) It's supposed to be very stable and B) It's in liquid form, I've always wanted experience with a liquid explosive.

EDIT: Fixed URL, seems like almost every post I do has something wrong with it. <img src="http://www.roguesci.org/ubb/icons/icon15.gif" alt=" - " />

[ November 05, 2002, 01:19 AM: Message edited by: Aaron-V2.0 ]

knowledgehungry

November 5th, 2002, 07:05 PM

I will test out AP in acetone after my AP is finished being made, probably this weekend. I'll let you know results ratios etc. Thanks for input.