An/mnn/c

[Sonny Jim]

I've searched a lot about this explosive and found no dedicated thread on it, and since I have something to contribue with regard to this topic I thought it was appropriate to start a new thread for this explosive.

Today I carried out a test. I used 85% AN, 12% MNN and 3% C. The charge was 200g, and initiated by 5g pressed HMTD. I'm sure this was in excess but it was a first test and I didnt want a misfire. I can't comment on the exact density of the charge, only that it was placed inside an empty Lo Salt container. No pressing, microspheres, just poured in off a sheet of paper. The det was placed in the centre of the charge, and initiated under a felled tree.

I was very impressed with this explosive. It created a meaty report, that I must say did not sound typical of low VOD BOOMs. A small amount of smoke was made but this went away quickly. A large crater was formed, blowing lots of dirt flying and leaving the ground smoking. Here is a pic taken of the blast damage a few hours after the detonation:

http://www.villagephotos.com/viewpubimage.asp?id_=8076412

You may need to copy + paste that.

Anyway, how does this compare with your experiences with this HE? I for one am very impressed, and will be using this explosive quite often until the novelty wears off.

[Dr_Pind]

WOW, Nice. I have been trying to find out more about this explosive lately, but haven't been able to find any info on it.
Did you use the procedure with low density AN and heating of the mixed ingredients? Also what procedure did you use for making MNN. I have been planning on making some using 62% HNO3. I know that this is lower than is normally stated, but I will get around this by reducing the amount of water the naphtaline is mixed with in the first stage. It's nice to finally have a thread on this explosive. Good luck on future experiments.

Oh.. If you are to do this again, could you please try to find the density used? I have also been trying to find the max density at which this explosive can be fired by a detonator.

[Sonny Jim]

I made the MNN using 120ml of 91% H2SO4 and 60g AN. I wasn't totally sure how much napthalene to add in so I just gradually kept adding it until it stopped reacting. Using moth balls as I did, it's quite easy to keep the reaction under control, without having to be that careful. You can add a moth ball, and since only the surface of the moth ball is open to react at any one time it acts like a 'sustained release mechanismn'. I was able to add 40g of napthalene before no more would nitrate, and got about 38g of MNN out of the reaction. When doing this procedure, you should know that MNN will form a molten layer on top of the acids, and you could be forgiven for thinking you were suffering a runaway if you didnt know better because MNN is a very similar colour to NO2.

All I did to mix the charge was to place AN prills, lumps of MNN and charcoal powder into a food grinder (no I dont actually use it for food too) and mix it in. It took literally 30 seconds. The composition is a funky colour, dark because of the charcoal yet not totally because the MNN and AN make it lighter.

I will try and get a density measurment next time, but for now all I can tell you for sure is that the casing was weak cardboard with a diameter of 7cm, and the detonator was pushed into the middle of the charge.

I plan to do a few more tests with AN/MNN/C and will also see how much of a difference using DNN makes to the performance, if any.

[bobo]

I have been planning on making some using 62% HNO3. I know that this is lower than is normally stated, but I will get around this by reducing the amount of water the naphtaline is mixed with in the first stage.


I have successfully obtained MNN using 53% acid and doing less water like you describe and I think slightly more sulfuric acid. Your acid should be sufficient. This is a long time ago, don't remember the details though I know it can be done.

I have a question too now though... How sensitive do AN compositions become relatively speaking with sensitizers such as:

glycerin
pure biodiesel (fatty acid methl ester)
normal diesel
MNN
DNN
castor oil
AP
NM
wax
TNT

I can imagine the real explosives like TNT and in lesser degree DNN making it more powerful but how about sensitivity? I expect the alcohols or esters being slightly better sensitizers than wax or diesel.

[Sonny Jim]

There are a lot of other factors on top of just the sensetiser you use that determine the overall sensetivity of the composition. You know like density, confinement, container diameter and how much sensetiser you actually use.

I don't think that compositions such as ANNG and APAN are that fussy when it comes to the above factors, but when using diesel for example density for one becomes a lot more important.

There are a few threads about some of the sensetisers you listed in this section. First to mind comes the 'cap sensetive ANFO thread', and I'm certain a lot of what you seek is already here.

[Bert]

Damn- Sorry about that. Wasn't there an option for DELETE the last time I looked?

[Bert]

All I did to mix the charge was to place AN prills, lumps of MNN and charcoal powder into a food grinder (no I dont actually use it for food too) and mix it in. It took literally 30 seconds.

Do you mean you put ALL 3 ingredients into a food processor and ground them up together. If so, do you see the potential for a PROBLEM in such an operation- Yes, I know AN HE's aren't LIKELY to go off from such a treatment. But still, 200 g. of HE isn't something I'd put in a blender I was standing next to- Don't be like the Swedish Meatball (http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=1570) , think about what could go wrong. A bit of grit, some metal contamination, some bit of primary that cross contaminated from something else you've worked on and you'll have a spark and maybe an ignition if not a detonation.

[Sonny Jim]

Hi there. Sorry to double post but this way you should notice the new stuff I have to show you, since otherwise an edit might slip past you. I have conducted another test that confirms that this explosive is very good. This charge was 186g. (at the time I weighed my AN it was slightly damp hence the funny number). Initiated again by the same size cap as before. I thought I'd get my own back on winter and blow up a snowdrift.

Before: http://www.villagephotos.com/viewpubimage.asp?id_=8104505

Charge Placed: http://www.villagephotos.com/viewpubimage.asp?id_=8104506

After: http://www.villagephotos.com/viewpubimage.asp?id_=8104509

There was a really impressive plume of snow chucked up and outwards. The noise wasn't that bad since it was an open space and there was a bit of wind. From about 40M, it sounded like a bang followed by a cracking echo. Loads of soil was thrown about and scattered over the snow for about 15M, and it seemed to start 'snowing' in the area of the charge's explosion.

Now that I've established this is good stuff, I plan four 50g charges, initiated by progressively smaller detonators. It's already clear that 5g HMTD causes full dets, so it's time to see how 4,3,2,and 1g dets do.

I hope this has inspired some of you to try this!

PS. Bert, get off my back. I'm trying to do something productive here and all you can do is complain. I dobt you really care what happens to me and are just wanting to look good infront of everyone else. Didn't think that I had the blender switched on at the end of a long extension lead outside, using the switch to the mains to control the pulses did you? Next time know what you're talking about before having a go at someone.

[PIB]

I will detonate 650gr of AN/C/AL, i will use 5gr of HMTD.
I think that it will be a full detonation...
What do you think about the deto (5gr of Pressed HMTD)

AN 95%
C 4%
AL 1%

[Myrol]

PIB! Please use some more Fuel for your Charge! Othwerwise it makes a lot of these crappy white AN-smoke (i hate it!!) A Suggestion for you: 92% AN, 6% C, 2% Al or 93% AN 7%C or 90% AN 5% C and 5% Al! I hope it helps you somewhat! The best ratio for ANNM is 1kg AN and 513g NM! I tested both ratios, the standard 337g NM for 1kg AN and the better one with 513g NM per kg AN! And i must say: The second makes really more pressure, Sound, much lesser smoke and Detonates stronger than the First one! The first mixture makes a lot of white smoke the second not really!

[Bert]

PS. Bert, get off my back. I'm trying to do something productive here and all you can do is complain. I dobt you really care what happens to me and are just wanting to look good infront of everyone else. Didn't think that I had the blender switched on at the end of a long extension lead outside, using the switch to the mains to control the pulses did you? Next time know what you're talking about before having a go at someone.

Your post did not mention any safety precautions taken while milling a complete HE mix. Pardon me for thinking you were another E&W member who was about to be in the news, like the last guy I told was going to die soon, who did, indeed, die immediately after. I hope you are taking the precautions you mention. I don't know you personaly, but I'm old enough to be thinking of your parents feelings. Unfortunately, I do know what I'm talking about. And I (as well as anyyone else who reads this forum, and may try to duplicate your procedure) know exactly as much about what you're doing as you post, COMPLETE procedures may help some kewl kid retain his hands a bit longer.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely sobers us again.

Alexander Pope (1688-1744)
Essay on Criticism, 219

For fools rush in where angles fear to tread.
Ibid, 625ss

[Sonny Jim]

You'll forgive me for thinking that the members of this forum might be sensible enough to think up their own safety precautions. All I wanted to do was convey the method I used to prepare and mix the explosive, and to this end, my procedure was complete. I'm not talking to a bunch of kewl kids, so I didnt see much point in talking to you as if you were.

Anyway, shortly I'll be ready for the detonator tests. It would be nice to get a good det from a smaller cap. Anyone have any predictions or previous experience of the smallest useable cap?

[Dr_Pind]

I read in the Mad Science Discussion Board, that MNN could be made by heating a mix of HNO3 and naphtalene, so I went to try it, and it worked perfectly! I used 62% HNO3 for the reaction and was left with MNN in a couple of minutes. Now I was wondering, couldn't one skip the use of H2SO4 and just use HNO3 + Naphtalene for MNN production? I know that some of the HNO3 won't react since the acid becomes more and more dilute and thus some of the HNO3 will go to waste, but so does the sulfuric acid if the HNO3/H2SO4 nitrating mix is used. If this gives good yields, it would be much easier to make MNN. Simply mix and heat.

Oh, by the way, does anyone know if naphtalene is soluble in the MNN?

[Sonny Jim]

I would think that the yeild would be a lot worse than if H2SO4 was used as the HNO3 wouldnt be protonated, so there's be less NO2+ ions kicking about.

Why do you want to dossolve napthtlalene in MNN, it's solid at room temp.

[Dr_Pind]

It's not because I want to dissolve it, just to know if unreacted naphtalene could dissolve in the MNN and contaminate it. :rolleyes:

[Mumble]

If it did dissolve into the MNN, one could melt and stir it into the water underneath. This is assuming you're just melting in hot water. The unreacted Naphthlalene would come out momentarily. Actually, if you melted in hot water, the Naphthalene should float on top, while the MNN floats on the bottom.

[Sonny Jim]

Howdy all.

http://www.villagephotos.com/viewpubimage.asp?id_=8270419

500g of ANMNNC will be detonated tomorrow :D

It will be a battle of epic proportions between the charge, initiated by a 50g APAN booster and 3g AP cap, and an old broken office laser printer. The printer has the weight advantage but something tells me that the explosives will come off good.

I will capture the event on camera and post it here, it should be quite entertaining. I have gone very overkill on the booster simply because I dont want to have gone to all this trouble for nothing. This explosive, however, requires nowhere near that amount of force to detonate, but my peace of mind is a fragile thing.

Anyway, since there was some fuss kicked up about the use of a blender in the mixing process before, let me just say. I set up my extension lead and placed the blender around a corner and remotely operated the blender. Nothing at all went wrong, as would be expected. Still though, for the little extra effort of taking the above precaution, I would still advise doing it. Blenders make for very easy mixing, I must say!

[Sonny Jim]

Is there not an edit button anymore? :confused:

Oh well. Todays charge went off without a hitch. Unfortunately the batteries in the camera were down without my knowlege, and therefore the detonation itself could not be captured. I, naturally am very pissed off at this but shit happens as they say.

In any case, this is the footage I have:

http://angry_jack.tripod.com/500g.WMV

Naturally it's not as fun to look at as the detonation itself, but you can get an idea of the power of the charge by looking at the footage that is there. Due to the dead batteries, there are 3 short bursts of film. The first shows the set up beforehand, from the place where the camera was supposed to have filmed the detonation. I am lighting the charge. You can see the big log the charge was placed next to. (you can only see the shape of me, there aren't enough pixels for anything else)

I say log, but it was not a solid block of wood, rather what appeared to be a roll of wooden shutters. You know the type that covers over the back of vans and shop fronts. It was tightly wrapped and reinforced with steel wire. Where the hell did I get it? The place I set off the charge is an old army base (hence the bunker), with loads of old machinery and rubbish lying around.

The second and third sections of the film show the aftermath, with lots of smashed wood etc etc. I like the final shot from the roof of the bunker. You can see one end of the shutter roll from there. It was blasted cleanly into two pieces, with a straight cut. However, about 3 feetsworth of the stuff was pummled to little sticks and thrown for many yards around the area. Sticks were found even in front of where the charge was placed because they went so high they got affected by the wind.

I think due to the nature of the clean cut observed here, this composition has quite a good VOD. I didnt expect such deavestation to the target even though I have set off 2 200g charges of this stuff previously.

I will be back at the old deserted base to look for a suitable target for a KG charge soon. This stuff is addictive. You really should give it a whirl.

[K9]

Sorry for digging up an old thread but no one replied to my thread here - http://roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?t=4653 - so I figured I might try posting here to see if I could get a response. Basically I'm looking to find optimum nitration ratios for MNN (and MNT) using a H2SO4/ nitrate salt method, and the chemistry behind it.

I've seen a few different numbers from this thread, this one http://roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?t=232&highlight=MNN and also http://www.roguesci.org/megalomania/explo/TeNN.html. The ratio used by this thread creator seems to use significantly less naphthalene than others.

If anyone could help me out out it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.