Homeload tests.

[Dave the Rave]

I´ve been doing some research on the field of homemade loads and here are some pics of my shots. It´s are all from .380 - from an taurus millenium.

The first, letf, is from a homemade load, called glasser. It´s an coper jacket, filled with 00 buckshot and wax. The jacket is full metal. The projectile weigths 90 grains.

The penetration is regular and te expansion phase is realy violent, with an huge exit hole.

The second, left is from an holow point, also homemade from an regular FMJ files down and then holowed. It weigths 125 grains

The penetration is fine, the expansion is nice at it´s initial phase, with total fragmentation of the lead and an beautifull flower pattern of the final projectile.

The 3th and 4th, left are control shots, with comercial bullets and regular powder charges, all with 125 grains and 6 grains of 1200 rex

The second image is from the exit hole of the glasser shot.

Now, glasser with 90 grains on the projectile and 6 grains of 1200 REX
Holow with 125 grains on the bullet and 6 grains of 1200 REX
Comercial ammo (FMJ), 125 grains and 6 grains of 1200 REX

The "balistic gelatin" is made of soap bars, and the pictures where taken from the back of the shots, entry hole, expansion phase and exit hole (top to bottom).

From there I can found that, even being ligther, the glasser shot is more destructive, but can easily be stoped by an bulletproof vest.

I was thinking that, if my magazine can hold 15 shots, I could load it with 4 HP, 8 glasser and 3 FMJ, to overcome the eventuality of an bulletproof vest.

What are your comments ?

[zaibatsu]

I'd be very careful with filing FMJs, because they're not TMJ the lead core may blow out of the filed section, leaving an obstruction in the bore of your firearm. Which is why I'm interested in how easy it would be to swage weakenesses into the jacket of a FMJ bullet, for people who live in countries where expanding ammunition is heavily restricted.

I don't have experience in firing at people, but I'd rather hit them and leave a hole (albeit clean) first, and then follow up with other shots, than work on the chance they're not wearing any armour and just piss them off. Plus whether you'll get off 15 shots at one person is debatable. More interesting would be a mag loading with the french (?) bullet, the name of which escapes me at the moment, it's the the extremely pointed one.

A center of mass shot even with a FMJ is going to do some damage.

EDIT: A hardened steel jig could make it very easy to consistently file FMJ/TMJs to the same height.

[MP5Guy]

Just what is the fellow wearing the Body Armor doing after he is hit with your first round?

What Level of Body Armor are you wearing at this time and what are you going to do when you are hit by his first round?

Have you ever been shot at?

Are you on medication?

MP

[Dave the Rave]

Zaibatsu, I know that the FMJ can slip from the coper jacket, but the idea is file just enough to expose the lead, so we can make the hollow.

At my Country we can´t purchase HP ammo, so, we need to make our own. The weird point is that it can´t be legaly purchased, but if you have this kind of bullet at your weapon, and shoot someone with it, the cops can´t ad nothing to your penalty, as it´s use isn´t forbidden...

About shoot people, sometimes we are forced to do it, and maybe many people at once... The idea is to have an good combination of stoping power, fragmentation and penetration. As we can´t use weapons with calibers superior to the .380, we don´t have much power at hand.

MP5, due to the high level of criminality at my Country, level III balistic vests are commomplace around here. The drug dealers and bank robbers use even military vests, and they have the nasty habit of wear it all the time.

The idea is that the first or second shoots over the vest be enough to disable the agressors, but no one knows when will be necessary to shoot again or to shoot someone else.

Of course I don´t want to engage on one gunfigth, as I don´t use bodyarmor, but I can´t foresee when it could happen.

I´ve been shot tree times in my life, one time when my mother, who was an federal judge, drove her car away of an ambush. The shot hit me at my rigth side, as it bounced inside the door, and today it´s at my armpit. It´s one 7,65 mm, huge bullet, but low power ammo.

The second time was at school, someone was jealous about one girlfriend I had and simply draw an gun to me, shooting me tree bullets before some friends knock him down. One bullet hit my chest, passing through my rib and missing my lung for one inch, the 2nd bullet hit my diaphragm on an direct shot. The 3rd shot hit me when I was falling, and it´s found my shoulder, breaking my bone. It was an .32 calliber revolver.

The 3rd time was on army. I was an Lt, and some day 4 FN FALs where stolen from our armorial. We discover that one soldier sell it to some bandidos who where on the "favela" (many poor constructed houses, build at hillsides, and an traditional hideout to drug dealers and such, which are too dangerous to policial forces as it´s practicaly an maze of narrow street and dead ends).

We went to the "favela" and were received with firepower enough to stop an batalion. An caporal was hit by automatic fire and was killed, and I and another soldier try to run to cover. I was hit by .308 shots from one of our guns, which broke my leg, hit my hip and found my back the most desirable spot to lay some small pieces of lead. Now I have some bullets all over my body, as the medics found that isn´t necessary to remove it.

And yes, I´m over medication all the time, "gardenal" an anti- spasmodic, because of the shoots at my back mess with my local nerves, "berotec", an bronco - dilatator, as one of my lungs was permanently damaged by the .308 and some analgesics to figth the pain of my wounds.

And you think that living in Brazil was an easy task. Ask Guerrero, Sarevok or Lameiras about what I´m talking about.

[zaibatsu]

Have you thought about making your own cast bullets Dave? You could then have a HP bullet, and then copper plate it for a TMJ effect. Some bullet manufacturers seem to be adding a plastic ball to the HP cavity, you could try experimenting with that, I'm sure industrial manufacturers would provice a "sample" ;)

[NickSG]

You could also try reloading your bullets backwards. I know of several ammunition manufacterers that do this, along some good friends. Since the base of the bullet is flat (for most FMJ and TMJ bullets), it will give the bullet a wadcutter shape, cutting a full caliber hole in tissue. You might even get some expansion out of backward loaded hollow base bullet?

Anyway, this should only be done in revolvers. BTW a .38 special wadcutter will cut a larger hole than a .45ACP FMJ. Pretty good huh?

FYI CCI/Speers Blazer bullets are all TMJ. The cases are aluminum so they are pretty cheap, but they cannot be reloaded.

[MP5Guy]

As I know it hurts from a little skirmish I had the honor of participating in in 1968 in Southeast Aisa. I also apoligize for my curt response to you and now see how lucky I am to live in the US where we can have the right to defend ourselves as we see fit.

Dave I am a Licensed Manufacturer of Machineguns and Suppressors and I sell quite a few Ballistic Vests to Law Enforcement. Their Turn-In's I use for demonstrations on why Vests should be replaced Bi-Annually. In other words I shoot at alot of used vests to prove a point.

My point in my post is just about anyone shot wearing a vest is going to go down from the initial impact if not alone from the shock of being hit so a follow up shot in the same area of the vest is generally out of the question altogether just for informational purposes.

You Take Care Dave,

MP

[Dave the Rave]

NickSG, Your idea of wadcutters is very nice. I tried some shots, again with my .380 and I foud that the main problem is the forcing cone, on the back of the barrel. Aparently the surface of the bullet tends to scraps itself on the cone, but only one or two of 10 shots have this problem and it don´t troubles the final result.

To overcome this problem, I simply do a little filing & polishing on the copper of the back of the bullet and it works fine. from what I found, the now round back of the bullet (was the tip) allows an better flow of the gases through the crown of the barrel, which keeps an better precision rate.

The wadcutter point (was the back) realy opens an huge entering hole, and expands prety well, specialy when partialy hollowed, doing an massive wound when exits the target.

I take some pictures to post, it´s on the developing laboratory and I should catch it by friday, then I scan and put on the Forum.

About foreing ammunition producers, my Country don´t alow importation or comercialization of ammunition manufactured out of here. Only plain "Companhia Brasileira de Cartuchos" and such can be purchased around here, the others being smugled through the borders, specialy Paraguay and Argentina or received by mail.

Our Senate is even doing some laws to give serial number to each bullet produced around here.

MP5, that was my point, one person shot when using Bullet Proof Vests can be disabled by the shock, but as you know, some bigger persons can handle better the shock, and even regular people can recover a lot quicker, specialy when on drugs like coke and crack.

As I can´t get caugth using 9mm or .45, I need something that can bypass the BPV or do some massive damage on targets without the BPV, hence the tests.