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ink
March 14th, 2004, 07:17 PM
I know this has been discussed a small amount in the forum already, but I would like to hear your ideas. My idea is to (super?)saturate AP in acetone, then suck it into a syringe. Next, inject it into the keyhole and let it evaporate for a few hours. To ignite it, put a small amount of AP putty in the front of the keyhole and ignite it with a fuse. Any ideas on how well this would work/improvements would be appreciated.

Desmikes
March 14th, 2004, 08:42 PM
What kind of a door is it, if it's wooden then just use 25g right next to the lock (may want to cover it with something). In practice they use shaped sharges for this sort if thing. It sends the lock (or what is left) into the room at rather impressive speed. Supersaturating acetone with AP and injecting that into a hole, waiting forever for acetone to evaporate and then be disapointed with the results... there are better ways. If it's an outside lock - metal cutters work beautifully; if you wish to follow up on your idea - use actual liquid explosive. Often there are less stressful ways to enter ;)

nbk2000
March 15th, 2004, 03:04 AM
NBK's math lesson for the day:

3 posts - 2 new topics - 1 n00bie = 0 return.

:D

AX in a syringe injected into the lock, microdet made for azo-chlatrate in a stirrer straw pressed into AX paste, BOOM...open sesame! ;)

atlas#11
March 16th, 2004, 03:31 PM
Hmm, this thread reminds me of a recent idea of mine.

I was thinking we could use small ammounts of chewing gum as a binder with a fairly stable yet powerfull primary that does not require more than a few mg to reach ddt. Then you could press it in to sheets that could be cut and fit in to a chewing gum wraper for an excellent disguise. It would smell minty fresh and look like ordinary Extra or Wriglies but when the pigs go to help themselves... :p . It would be a simple matter of pulling out a stick, rolling it to a thin string, feeding it into the lock pre filled with NG or other reliable/powerfull liquid HE and igniting with a small fuse. You could even hide the fuse in the wrapper right aside the stick of gum. It could fit inside your lock pick case right next to the syringes filled with NG.

I'm thinking maby lead azide or DDNP, HMTD is to unstable and silver acetylide is to reactive(as far as I've read). AP would work but I wouldn't want to be carring that in my pocket.

Just an idea, sounds like mission impossible dosen't it?

Ropik
May 11th, 2004, 03:07 PM
It sounds good, atlas, but if you do not want to carry AP in your pocket for safety reasons, don't carry the NG. It is too sensitive. In this case, EDGN, maybe with small amount of nitrocellulose added to make it more "pasty" is your best bet I think. (M)ethyl nitrate with bit of NC would also work nicely.

Jacks Complete
May 11th, 2004, 06:37 PM
I don't know whether the NG would be safe or not, but you could try it! After all, NG + diatomous earth or wood sawdust, etc., even nitrocellulose, is far safer than NG alone.

You could even try buying the ingredients off the packet and mixing it from scratch.
---
New - Mighty Atlas gum! Not so much menthol as mental! Sure to clear any blockage!!
---

Ropik
May 12th, 2004, 02:32 PM
Yes... you could try it. But there is not second chance if you find that it isn't safe enough. You can only find some second-hand hands;).

tiac03
May 13th, 2004, 06:45 PM
Why not use a shaped charge of some type?

A scaled down version, even if it doesn't work exactly as a shaped charge should, it should still have enough energy to fuck up the lock enough to render it useless.

(I have never blown up a lock so excuse my ignorance if this is overkill or just stupid and useless)

Psychlonic
May 14th, 2004, 01:27 AM
Through what I've erm... seen... the most effective way to get past those locks is just to ignore them. Attack the door or the frame instead, a good kick or shoulder to the door's center works nicely.
Supposing you actually find a door and frame that aren't haphazardly put together and they are your only means of entrance to an area, thermites miiighht work if you are able to put enough above the handle, perhaps drill a large hole above it. Though, if you can do that, why not just drill the lock out entirely?
It just seems to me that most locks could be bypassed using lowly black powder. If the lock seriously requires an explosive device to get by, I'd have to go with tiac03 and just use a shaped charge, because any lock not requiring that should be bypassed using other means.

Hang-Man
May 14th, 2004, 01:46 PM
People love blowing up locks, however, they all seem to forget that blowing things up is loud as hell. If the lock you're trying to break is remote enough that NG going off isn't going to get any attention, then either:

1) Nothing inside is worth taking
2) You could just wail on the door/window with a sledge hammer to get in, since nobody is around anyway. Hell, drive your car through the door. (And don’t give me shit about damage to your car; using explosives during the commission of a crime will get you fucked in court, so I assume you would only even consider doing it if what you’re stealing is more than worth the car damage.)

Furthermore, blowing locks will only work on padlocks, as they can be entirely destroyed, or locks set in wooden doors, as they can be blown out of the frame. Maybe if the metal door was hollow the pins could be blown up through the top of the lock housing but I doubt it. If lock is a deadbolt set in a steel door, which most external doors are, then in all likelihood all that will happen is your explosive will mangle the hell out of the lock making it impossible to open even with the key.

In most/all cases where explosives could be used to compromise the lock, a lock pick, bolt cutter, or sledge hammer could be used instead, which would be far easier and more discrete (Albeit not half as fun.). The only time I can see using explosives on a lock is this scenario:

1) The door is too heavy to be broken by a hammer or axe.
2) The lock is a Medeco or other high security lock that I would rather have herpes than pick.
3) It’s the 4th of July so nobody will be alarmed by the bang.
4) The hope diamond is on the other side.

This is not to say explosives have no uses in breaking and entering, far from it, but bypassing the lock is not one of them in my opinion.

tiac03
May 14th, 2004, 06:31 PM
I agree with you for the whole "too Loud for use when stealing" idea.
Unless you can ensure that you are in and out in 30 seconds and far away by the time the cops get there, don't bother with explosives.

Explosives are Usefull when you need speed. (escaping, storming someone), and even then you don't want to go after the lock itself, you want to move the whole door out of your way. (charge along the doorframe,like Anit-Terrorist teams use, or even those linear shaped charges that were mentioned in another thread.)

Anyways wouldn't something like Liquid nitrogen, or another extremely cold liquid sprayed into the lock then force the lock, breaking the pins and allowing easy access, be better or more efficient/quiet?

nbk2000
May 14th, 2004, 06:46 PM
I like your logic Hang-man. :)

Psychlonic
May 14th, 2004, 08:49 PM
A torch would probably do the job as well. Wheel the set-up right next to the lock and cut the damn thing out of the scene. If the boys in blue are on their way (assuming something goes wrong), use the thing to create a boobytrap when you are finished getting whatever it was you were after (only if you aren't able to wheel it back out of course).
While this is quieter than explosives, you still get a bright light which can jam things up at night. Still, another option on the table is good to have.

Actually, if you are going to make a ruckus without regard to leaving evidence, why not just drag along a chainsaw and cut out a new door in the side of the building? Or the roof? If you are in an area where people use wood to heat their homes, this really shouldn't draw too much attention.
With todays technology, explosives for opening locked doors just seems insane.

nbk2000
May 15th, 2004, 05:13 PM
Hydralic spreaders, used for car body repair, cost less than $200 and have a 10 ton capacity, more than enough to spread a door jamb apart, or shift a few bricks out of place in a wall.

A-BOMB
May 15th, 2004, 08:25 PM
Well explosive are fun, I find a ramset(remington).25cal cartridge nailgun with a chisle bit is better, no hammering, no huge bang. just a semi-loud pop and the lock is removed.

nbk2000
May 17th, 2004, 12:35 PM
Where do you set the chisel at?

A-BOMB
May 17th, 2004, 02:23 PM
I used a chisle bit from a old air hammer I had, though I had to grind off this locking ring on the end. You could probaly get a tugsten tipped one at a industrial supply store. There are a few differnet type of chisles too, I found the ones with a "V" cut into the edge are good for removing the heads off of large bolts. But one thing is the recoil is rather hard, and I have found that the .25cal cartridge units are the minium you can use, though I have never tried the .22cal units. I have also attached a folding stock to it to help with the recoil, though it is more trouble that is worth.

nbk2000
May 17th, 2004, 04:24 PM
That's interesting to be sure, but doesn't answer the question of WHERE you set the chisel on the lock to break it.

A-BOMB
May 17th, 2004, 06:11 PM
On the door I tested on I aimed the chisle at a angle so it shears the section of the door that is over the bolt making it weak enough that I can just lean against it and it pops open. If its a cheap lock I can usually just aim for the bolt itself. If useing a "v" notch chisle I aim at a angle at the cyclender if Its a wood door I usually rippes the cyclender and front part of the lock right out exposing the interals which allow you to manully manipulate the bolt.

xperk
May 18th, 2004, 04:04 AM
A-BOMB,

The ramset is unknown to me, is it this contraption?:
http://www.ramset-redhead.com/hd_22.asp

oh they have a trigger activated too..hmm nice:
http://www.ramset-redhead.com/RS22.asp

A-BOMB
May 18th, 2004, 09:55 AM
Ya that what I was talking about, there are differnet manufactuers but the one I have is made by ramset.

http://www.ramset-redhead.com/cobra.asp

tiac03
May 18th, 2004, 10:17 AM
Those things have power behind them we put a nail through the bullet stop steel (up range) in a shooting range once. (walked up to it put the thing up against the steel and hit it with a hammer, nail went right through (can't remember if it was quarter or half inch steel) It was mainly A pistol and .22 rifle range but we fired an SKS in there and it didn't punch holes through the steel so you tell me the thickness. (although armor penetrating bullets i'm told went through it easily...)
Good Up close bullet proof de-vester maybe? (trigger type not hammer activated one). Even just using the blank applied to the key hole would probably bust out the pins well enough.

xperk
May 18th, 2004, 10:21 AM
A-BOMB,

ah a ten shot magazine.. handy.

So, forgive me my slowness, what you are saying is that in theory one could shoot the gun at an angle to the side of the exposed cylinder lock. Thus causing the internal screws keeping the cylinder embedded in the lock to pop and the cylinder to come out?

A-BOMB
May 18th, 2004, 12:37 PM
This is was I am talking about using the chisle to remove the whole front section of the lock. There by exposing the interals of the lock so you can manualy manipulate the bolt.
A: bolt
B: front lock face
C: inside turn latch
D: chisle
and the big brown thing is the door.

nbk2000
May 18th, 2004, 06:05 PM
Shouldn't the chisel go between A and B if you're intending to remove the wood from in front of the locking bolt so the door can be forced open?

FinnBell
May 18th, 2004, 06:44 PM
Hell! If the door is wood, forget the lock, just set a couple of charges on the top and bottom hinges. Blow the wood and hinges apart. The rest could be finished off with a crow bar or something. Just playing around with stuff like TNP or ETN, like strapping them to small trees in the area, they are definitely briscant enough to take those hinges off of the door, even in small amounts. Especially if its made from wood. But then again that might be too loud.

Jacks Complete
May 18th, 2004, 08:30 PM
Those nail cartridge guns seem rather lethal. Just look at the steel pen. figures! Over half an inch in some cases!

Obviously highly illegal in the UK? Anyone know? I guess it would be in the same league as a captive bolt stunner.

It would easily go through a vest, tiac03, unless you hit a trauma plate... and even then, perhaps!

Desmikes
May 18th, 2004, 09:19 PM
Military uses shaped charges to open up doors, I believe that developed police units use something similar to a heavy shotgun for similar purposes. Anyone tried to see how much damage to a wooden door can you do with a 10-gage shotgun?

A-BOMB
May 18th, 2004, 10:59 PM
Except the police use a compressed powdered metal slug that put all of if energy into the lock and then disintergrates in to dust. You could probaly get away with using some buck shot, except which is louder, a 10 gauge or a ramset gun/sledge hammer/ hydrolic spreader.
NBK, ya it should go in between A and B if you want to give the door a nudge after ward if not you aim where it shows and then shove your fingers in there and pull the bolt back. Both ways will work. And these nail guns would only be lethal if you got the pig to hold still ran up to him and shoved the end into his armor and pulled the trigger. if you aimed at him from 2 feet away and pulled the trigger the nail would come out of the end and fall about 6 inches later. It only has power up close.

Moh
May 22nd, 2004, 08:38 PM
You could also use a steel tube filled with lead, with a steel plate welded to one end and to handles mounted on it. With a little force it should break the door open (it should be aimed against the lock, or at least near or else the "hammer" may go through the door instead). ;)