Mannitol Hexanitrate

[chemlab456]

Hi,
i am a german and i don´t speak english very often because that i´ll make several mistakes but i hope you understand want i mean. In the last time a try to make a save electricity Cap. I use a lamp from a lightlampchain (these things that you hang around you chrismastree at x-mas) and i cut off the head. In former times i fill it with AP and Petn. These Cap are compared with a .7g petn booster. I set of often ANNM with it. But i am afrait to use AP because its very friction sensitife ( i dont beleve that but save is save), i look in the Mega libary and serveral others so find a Explosive that is stable against friction and shock but detonate if heatet. I found 2 Explosives Picric Acid and Mannitol Hexanitrate. Will picric acid work if i head it (perhabs with a little bit of BP)? Mega write to Mannitol Hexanitrate: "is a somewhat unstable primary explosive compound" but he written too that sensitivity is low? What is true ?
Will Mannitol Hexanitrate decomposet after a specific time and will it explode if i heat it with these lamp or with adding BP??

PS i´ll hope that you understand what i mean with "compared with BP". The lamp light the bp wonderful and i can fill in a seperate container. The BP produce much more head than the wire of the lamp.

MfG
If you find a mistake its yours!

[freaky_frank]

I won't bother with the mistakes in grammar...b/c I myself aren't speaking perfect english either, I'm from the netherlands though, and picric acid and nor manitol hexanitrate will explode from heat as a primairy, you can make lead azide as a "safe" primairy explosive, the militairy uses that, HMTD is considered once by the militairy, and ammonium picrate can be made out of picric acid...
You can also make DDNP but then you have to convert the picric acid to picramic acid first, if you want to know how pm me and I'll send you a pdf about it....
So your best guess would be lead azide(hard to get sodium azide though maybe out of old air bags....) and HMTD...more stable than AP....
Mercury fulminate also used by the militairy, not anymore neither does HMTD but it used to be used by the militairy...

Grtz freaky frank

[chemlab456]

Thanks for the info. Its not the problem to get sodium azide and the other chemicals but if a primary like Mannitol Hexanitrate will work is a super save and easy to get primary. Mega has written that Mannitol Hexanitrate is friction and shock insensivive but write too its a unstable primary why?. HMTD will corode the wire of the lamp and form very unstable metalperoxides because that fact i´ll scare to use hmtd. i think if Mannitol Hexanitrate work its easier to prepare than ddnp (prepare Picric convert to picramic convert to ddnp seems very difficult).

[Desmikes]

If you find a mistake its yours!
I am afraid that I am not the one who started my life in the forum with a new HE thread that asks a question and butchers English language. This thread also happens to be second of it's type within 30 min, which further reduces your chances of maintaining your membership. If mods decide to show mercy to the undeserving, I suggest you READ THE RULES that are laid out in the Water Cooler.

[kingspaz]

chemlab456, don't post any more with english of such a poor standard. any further posts of such bad quality will result in a 30day ban. the 30 day period would be best used to learn some english. either way you won't be posting again soon until your english improves.

the thread however will remain open for general discussion on HHN as there have not been any recent threads dedicated solely to the discussion of this HE.

[freaky_frank]

It is necesary to dissolve MHN in acetone to get the acid out, b/c it can get locked inside the crystals of MHN, so anyway, who has the right answer, I thought MHN wasn't a primairy but a secondary....and when you don't like to use HMTD....then just don't use that light thingo from the x-mas three and still use HMTD without metals....

[kingspaz]

MHN is a sensitive secondary. almost a pirmary but not quite. COPAE mentions mixing it with tetracene (i think) to make a useful primary explosive.

[chemlab456]

Sorry for my bad english. I hope you know its very interesting for me to know a save primary to make save dets. In german forums i didn´t find a senseful forum like these. That meas i can use MHN as primary if i heat it perhabs in a seperatue container surrounded by BP or NC? The base charge in my Cap is PETN, its not easy to initiate if the distance between primary and petn is too high. Next time i´ll try to make some Lead Azide and search for a place to get mannitol.
I´ll improve my english.

[freaky_frank]

hey chemlab where do you live in germany, close to the netherlands?
And where did you get your pentaerithol?
Or if you made it yourself where you got the acetaldehyde?
I can't find the pm option else I would have pm-ed you about it, and i neither can send you an e-mail.
BTW kingspaz, what do you suggest to add to MHN to make it more sensetive, as in a primairy explosive?

[bobo]

Pentaerythritol is easily obtained in Germany. It is a compound with a certain code though so it's technically illegal to export it. Other than that...

Anyway, I live in NL too but it's far too good to be able to make PE out of OTC stuff don't you think? Acetaldehyde look at rhodium.ws, or buy product with metaldehyde.

[freaky_frank]

hehe illegal, what isn't illegal what we guys do.... :)
When I've got my driving license I might go to germany then once to get some PE if it isn't too expensive, but it is ofcourse also a lot cooler to make your own PE b/c I think that's something to be more proud of...and well slug killer pellets contain metaldehyde but that is a solid, so then you will have to get the metaldehyde out of it, I rather prefer the oxidation of ethanol to ethanal (AKA acetaldehyde) but ethanol is also quite expensive...anyway I'll go and have a look at the "boerenbond" if they sell slug killer liquid with methaldehyde in it...
Can you just ask for it at a pharmacy or what do you mean with easily obtainable?

[kingspaz]

frank, i can't really suggest a primary since i've not done any experiments in this area. i have a feeling well neutralised lead styphnate could be worth experimenting with.

[bobo]

Please do not post sources here no matter how trivial. It's better to ask someone in PM.

I don't know what kind of legal code it has, but an apothecary can look into the purposes of PE and decide not to sell it. In Germany you can order it by mail from some sources and there are certainly indivdiduals willing to sell it, of course you pay 8.20 euros in shipping cost but hey... Oh and if you buy it online, I think you risk your name on 'the list' but not sure if sleepy old europe is already getting keen at this type of chemicals. Madrid 11-3 may change things.

Alcohol denatured is cheaply available from a good drogist. There are online shops for this too. Or you make your own, like I do;)

[palpy]

IIRC the oxidation of ethanol involves the use of sodium/potassium dichromate which might be a difficulty to obtain, as it these are very carcinogenic.
In my country (Czech Republic) you can get some solid fuel tablets which are methaldehyde soaked with some mixture of oil products. These are easily purified by cracking or milling the tablets and letting the impurities evaporate (this takes a long time though :/ ). The pure methaldehyde can be depolymerised by heat in a sand bath while distilling off the acetaldehyde (haven't tried yet, but a guy from who I got this "recipe" had...).

[freaky_frank]

you can also use H2O2 insted of K2CrO7

[Maniak]

Palpy: I don´t think, that this tablets (if is it pepo) fuel tablets containing methaldehyde. You can read something about this in some czech forum (pxd - a year ago, there was a thread about this problem). Many people tried it, but nobody made acetaldehyde. The best way to have a bottle of acetaldehyde is to buy it...

[freaky_frank]

OR!!!
Oxidation of ethanol with KMnO4 to ethanal....

[chemlab456]

Tomorrow I`ll try to make some Mannitolhexanitrate. I`ll post my results and experience. Another Question is Petn comparable with Lead Azide and/or Mannitol Hexanitrate? Thanks.

[freaky_frank]

PETN is much more powerfull and louder than lead azide, lead azide is "only" a primairy...PETN is a HE...

[vulture]

OR!!!Oxidation of ethanol with KMnO4 to ethanal....

Good luck. You'll get heaps of acetic acid and a bit of ethanal.

[Mumble]

Loudness has little to do with an explosive's strength. Lead Azide can be used as an HE too. I'm going to assume by HE you mean the main charge, or a least a part of the main charge. I wouldn't recomend doing it, but it can be done.

[Boomer]

MHN is underestimated here, because Mega gives a VoD of 7000m/s, but this is for hand-pressing densities. If compressed to near its crystal density (1.67), it reaches 8260 m/s. This value is real, it is from COPAE, Kast, Stettbacher, Escales ... they all state either 8250 or 8260 m/s.

IMO it is as good as PETN. It has 98% of the VoD and 95% of the energy of PETN. :)
In caps it is probably even a little stronger, as it is easier to press (softer crystals) and to initiate, meaning it reaches its upper detonation rate faster and in smaller quantities and thinner columns. The value of 8260 m/s was for a 12mm column only, while NG dynamites need 25-30mm, and AN based explosives like donarite/ammonite 40-50mm to reach maximum velocity.

Plus, mannitol is easier to get hold of: In my town, three of the first eight pharmacies I tried sell it! :D And it can be made without distilling nitric, in 60% yield with only AN + sulphuric, even without an ice bath - see my post in "MHN yields". This compensates for the high price of 20 bucks per pound. But remembering this equals 500 caps - who needs a MHN main charge? :p

[wrythawk]

Well mannitol is very easy to get in pharmacies because they use it as filling powder in pills.
Has anyone tried to make acetaldehyde by oxidizing ethanol whit a Cu catalyst,I know it works for methanol but for ethanol?.
Sorry if I am asking noobish things here.

[Mr Cool]

The reaction works, although you may not find it easy to make acetaldehyde that way.