NH3.NI3 with iodine solution...

[inferno]

Hey
I obtained some iodine solution from school today, i have no idea of the concentration, its a yellow colour (kind of like urine..), and as the cost of iodine is a bloody lot, is it possible that i could make NI3 by mixing ammonia and this solution, leaving to react for a while, then filtering out the precipitate? Would this work?

Thanks a lot for any answers

[xyz]

I am not sure but I think that those yellow solutions are alcohol with 3% Iodine and wouldn't work.

[inferno]

Well i tested a small amount, it wasnt the best ammonia (lavendar .5% ammonia) in a 35mm fil canister, there are small black crystals collected on the sides, but very very small amounts...i guess it worked but not well, ill test if the solution is flammable later to determine if it contains alcohol.

Ok just tested it, i put a small drop on a lid, didnt light from a lighter, so i lit a spent match stick, stuck it in, it fizzled a bit, i pulled it out and it blows out smoke rings from the match, with lots of fizzling and crackling, it didnt seem to burn any weird colour, i THINK but im not sure that i sure a few purple flames just under the match, not sure what that would be.

<small>[ May 31, 2002, 09:13 AM: Message edited by: inferno ]</small>

[xtreme]

Ok....my first post on this webforum...

My experience using straight iodine solution (mixed with alcohol) with amonia will not work. It turns dark and later colorless.
but.....there is a way to get real iodine crystals from the solution.

You can get real iodine crystals from the solution by sublimation.
Here my way to get iodine from iodine-solution:

Warm some solution (slowly and gently) in a glas.
First the alcohol will vaporize and I light this gasses on (yes it burns)so I can see when the alcohol is totaly vaporized.
When the alcohol is vaporized (flame goes away or is very small)
you can see purple "smoke" coming. This purple smoke is pure
iodine (toxic!) This is the moment to put a another (bigger) glass
filled with water (and ice) on top of your (small) glas.

Now the purple smoke will cooled down on the bottom of the (bigger)
glass and turns back to the solid form as nice gray/silver crystals.
This gray stuff is pure iodine ! :o )

When no purple smoke is forming anymore, stop warming and take the bigger glas from the small glas.

You can put the gray crystals on the bottom of the big glas in
amonia (ammonium hydroxide) to form Nitrogen Triiodide.

When a 5% amonia solution is used it takes some time (2 hours).
After 2 hours....let the black Nitrogen Triiodide crystals dry.
When the stuff is dry it will explode by friction and fire.

Warning:
When a 25% amonia solution is used you get VERY sensitive and powerfull Nitrogen Triiodide!! My advice...use a 5% amonia solution.
Nitrogen Triiodide is realy powerfull....you be warned !

* The with crystals on the bottom of your small glas is sodium iodide (useless here)

[mr.evil]

Hello Xtreme,
i see you are from the Netherlands too! do you have MSN messenger?
(another dutch member, yeah! :) ) err, you aren't TVS17, are you?
(as he is from Amsterdam too)

[Polverone]

You can recover more elemental iodine from tincture if you first treat it with HCl and H2O2. This will free iodine from the iodide in the tincture. Then go ahead and sublimate as before. Also, if you have found pure iodine crystals to be too expensive (as I have), potassium iodide (which is much cheaper and available from photo suppliers as well as chemical suppliers) can be treated with HCl/H2O2 to give up its iodine as well. This can be separated by simple filtration or sublimation. Be aware, though, that the iodine that precipitates out is very light and "fluffy," with high surface area, and seems to sublime much faster than chunky lab iodine crystals. But this high surface area iodine may actually be better if you just want to make NH3.NI3.

[mr.evil]

Hit the search button, and search for 'iodine' you will find about 7good topics, and 1 special about extract I2 from Iodine tincture.

i extract my I2 from iodine tincture too(i can buy crystalls very easily, but it costs per 100gr 9$, i think that's expensive because i can buy 1L of KI for 3$. what would work better to extract I2 from the tincture; solution in water or in alcohol? :confused:

<small>[ May 31, 2002, 04:15 PM: Message edited by: mr.evil ]</small>

[Kdogg]

wouldnt it be a mixture, as it can be seperated or do I have my mixtures & solutions mixed up.

[inferno]

Mr evil, thats cheap! In Aus 100g is about $100+ australian dollars, thats about $50+ american.

A very small amount of black crystals formed, however the ammonia was 0.5% so its really weak, it just just a test though
And thanks for the info extreme

And kdogg, its a solution of the solvent (water i assume) and the solute (iodine).

<small>[ June 01, 2002, 06:33 AM: Message edited by: inferno ]</small>

[mr.evil]

Hey,
Here in The Netherlands, you can buy lots of chemicals and nobody cares as it comes from agrarical suppliers(HCl/H2O2/KI/CH2O/H2SO4/HNO3/NH4OH etc.) and paintshops..

BUT
in Belgium there ary many chemical shops that sell interesting things, ant fucking cheap to!! :cool:

Just extract I2 from tincture, you will get a much better yeid than just use the tincture instead of the crystalls

(look at this reaction: 2NaI(aq) + 2HCl + H2O2 -> I2(s) + 2NaCl(aq) + 2H2O)

[inferno]

Its not tincture of iodine, its a water(i assume)/iodine solution. Sometimes i wish i lived in the netherlands, so many chemicals available w/o questions. Im assuming an agrarical is an agricultural (farming/fertilisers etc) shop?

[mr.evil]

well, in holland you can't buy everything... i wish i lived in the U.S(we don't even got a Pyrotechnic club or something :( , maybe i'll start one!)

But you can buy LOTS of chemicals, in every country; you just have to look at the right place.

Farmshop i mean, you speak english.. i don't :p

<small>[ June 01, 2002, 11:15 AM: Message edited by: mr.evil ]</small>

[kingspaz]

inferno, the solution of iodine will also contain NaI or KI. this allows the iodine to disolve easier as it has a low solubility in water. therefore it is likely you will get more iodine by extracting it from the iodide.

[vulture]

IIRC, one can collect iodine from iodine salts by oxidation with KMnO4 in solution. I guess the solution must be a LITTLE bit acidic.

[xtreme]

Mr.Evil

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Thanks !

[Gatyo]

Yes, it really is very unsafe if you use more than 5% ammonia. The crystals get very sensitive and even wind can blow them up as somebody said before. My advice is if you're novice...just try very small amounts at first. Also wearing a gas mask (or any other kind of protective tools for you to breath) when you conjure is a very big plus, because the smell of amonia can be overpowering and not to mention the fumes after the NI3 explodes. Here's a video when me and my friend messed with little NI3. Click here (http://www.npgpf.com/files/ni3.avi)
As you can see it doesn't have that much of demolition power as noise which is a very big plus if you want an enormous bang.

[sirthomasthegreat]

My experience using straight iodine solution (mixed with alcohol) with amonia will not work.

I agree with this. I2 is less reactive that H2 so a single replacment will not occur.

I am quite positive that you could use a reaction kind of like the haber process to create it. You may recall that the haber process is 2N2 + 3H2 => 2NH3. But instead you probably could replace it with Iodine making it 2N₂ + 3I₂ => 2NI₃. The nitrogen and iodine would both be gases, not quite sure what phase the NI3 will be in. I can double check this soon if need be. Also how would I go about useing subscripts, writing it this way is killing me.

[Grapes Of Wraith]

For sub_scripts use this code: sub [whatever you want in subscripts] then this code: /sub except you need to open and close them like this < > < >

[sirthomasthegreat]

For sub_scripts use this code: sub [whatever you want in subscripts] then this code: /sub except you need to open and close them like this < > < >

Thank you very much, I am guessing those are HTML tags. Anyways I will edit my above post.

[h0lx]

The Iodine tincture WILL make NI₃, I have tried it, I will do it again and post pics.