CCl4 substitue?

[krieg]

I'm interested in making smoke munition as shown in TM 31-210. The book calls for carbon tetrachloride. Here this chemical is banned (probably for enviromental reasons) and would cost, I've been told, $40-$60 CAN per liter. Would chloroform or methyl dichloride do? I know CCl4 was once used as a fire extinguisher and still is in some old buildings so its use is probably to inhibit the flame while the mixture is burning, hence the heavy smoke production.

[Rhadon]

I don't have TM 31-210 in front of me, but I assume that it uses carbon tetrachloride together with zinc in order to produce black zinc chloride smoke. If that's how it works you could try tetrachloroethylene which is used for dry cleaning, at least here in Germany (edit: and in Canada as well (http://www.pyr.ec.gc.ca/dryclean/index_e.shtm) :)). You should be able to get some if you ask there, but I'm not sure how well the composition will work. When it burns, it will also produce a vertain amount of phosgene, keep that in mind. If you're looking for more information you can search for "Berger's mixture".

[Hang-Man]

TetraChloro<b>Ethene</b> is nonflamable and used as a solvent, dont know about ethylene (<b>tri</b>chloroethylene is used in fire extinguishers and as an anaesthetic) . As for tetrachloromethane (aka Carbon Tetrachloride), it's a water-insoluble liquid that smells like shit. It's made by the chlorination of methane (or by the chlorinatoin of carbon disulphide). It's used as a solvent for waxes, lacqures, and rubber. In the presence of water carbonTetrachloride will decompose into phosgene gas and hydrogen chloride, ergo its restriced use. 1,1,1-trichloroethane is now use as a substitue.

[krieg]

Actually it calls for a mixture of potassium nitrate, aluminum powder, sulfur, and black iron oxide. Without CCl4 this should a fast burning composition. That's why I'm assuming it is slowing the reaction down. Apparently tetrachloroethylene is sold in Canada but a dealer giving it to an individual who is not in compliance with environmental laws would probably be fined so it's not an option. I just want to know if chloroform would give similar results.

[a_bab]

"tetrachloromethane (aka Carbon Tetrachloride), it's a water-insoluble liquid that smells like shit."

Well, CS2 does, but not CCl4. Actually the carbon tetrachloride has a sweat and nice smell, very close to the chloroform.

[freaky_frank]

You might have a look at this <url>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=89061337</url>

[nesler]

A little info, courtesy of rec.pyro:

FM 3-9 AFM 355-7
Military Chemistry and Chemical Compounds
October 1975

HC Smoke

(1) General.

(a) During World War I, the greatest single advance in smoke was probably made by Captain Berger of the French Army when he developed a pyrotechnic mixture in which car*bon tetrachloride (CCl4) and a metal (Zn) reacted to produce a volatile hygroscopic chloride as a dense smoke. While neither the United States nor Great Britain used the Berger mixture during World War I, American scientists later improved it by adding an oxidizer for the carbon so that it would not dar*ken the smoke.

(b) At the beginning of World War II, a mixture of another composition was prepared and was designated HC smoke mixture. In this mixture CCI4 was replaced by solid hexachloroethane. Ammonium chloride as a re*ducing agent and a perchlorate as an oxidizing agent were added. In 1940 after the fall of France, perchlorates were not available and chlorates were tested. Chlorates proved to be hazardous, however, because they often caused formation of free chloric acid which ignited the smoke mixture spontaneously. Further ex*perimentation led to the development of the present HC smoke mixture (type Q which con*sists of zinc oxide, aluminum, and hexachloroethane.

And a bit of a suggestion regarding a suitable substitute, also courtesy of rec.pyro:
The most recent variant of these smokes uses Saran resin, ammonium perchlorate, zinc oxide, and perhaps a little aluminum. The performance of this type of composition is quite satisfactory and suffers none of the problems of the previous types.

[Leadazide]

A smoke comp. that doesn't require hard to get materials is a mix of hydrochloric acid and ammonia. When their gasses mix it forms ammoniachlorid which again reacts with the water in the atmosphere and produces smoke.

The hard part is to transform them into gasses quickly enough for the smoke to be solid. Mixing them as liquids (37% HCl and the ammonia being in a 25% solution) does produce some smoke but most of the ammoniachlorid just percipitates and produces no smoke. I have tried mixing areosoles of them at room temp and even though this did produce smoke it was very light.

I am planing to try to boil the to liquids by having vessels filled them them molded into a KNO3/sugar comp. Lighting the KNO3/sugar should produce enough heat to evaporate the liquids and produce smoke....with the added benefit of smoke from the KNO3/sugar mix.

[SafetyLast]

Tetrachloroethylene is also used in CRC "brakleen" brake parts cleaner
this is 90% C2Cl4 with 10% CO2. In TM31-210 it mentions the Carbon Tet and aluminum mixture as a binary cap sensitive mixture, does anybody have any useful inormation relating to this mixture?