Detonator, easy, save and storable

[Jumala]

I´m thinking since a long time about making a det cap which is simple, easy to make, save and storeable. I don´t like the most other improvised caps because they´re made from AP, HMTD or other sensitive primaries which must "pressed" into a shell or something else. This things are dangerous,
cannot be stored and you get nervous breakdowns while making them.

My idea is to make a two component cap which needs only a very small amount of primary.
(less dangerous) The primary should be a leadazide/styphnate mix with some binder to form a moldable putty.
The primary needs a carrier made of a wooden, 1-2 cm long dowel that fit into a for example 12mm PVC pipe.
I drill a 10mm hole in one end of the dowel approx. 5 mm deep. In the other end I drill two 1 mm holes through the dowel which ends in the bottom of the 10 mm hole.
Then I put 2 isolated wires through the holes and solder a SMD chip resistor to the ends which lyes at last at the bottom of the 10 mm hole. The wires are fixed with epoxy.
Then I put a drop ( 0,05-0,1 g) of primary putty in the hole on the resistor and let it dry.
At last a layer of wax on the primary pellet could be useful.

Now the primary carrier is ready to be mount in the PVC pipe.
It is fixed with 2 component epoxy glue.
Then the first part of the cap is ready.
The second part should be PETN. Both parts are stored separate.
When a cap is nessesary I need only to fill approx. 1 g of PETN in the open end of part 1 (without pressing), a piece of wad on the top and seal the open end.
Ready is the detonator.

The problem: That´s all theory. I never build one.

Can anyone see any bugs in this theory? Better ideas are also welcome.
(Drawings are available)

[mark]

The only problem I can see is finding some of those explosives. If you got them lying around, go for it.

[Microtek]

Use silver acetylide instead of lead azide; it is much easier to make and isn't all that sensitive. It is also not very powerful but has a reasonable initiating capacity. I wrote something on exactly this topic ( multiple component detonators ) a while back.

[Mr Cool]

Sounds good to me.
I'm in the process of making double salts my main primary (switching from HMTD and Pb Picrate, which are scary and a pain to make, respectively). I can buy 2.5L of c. 65% HNO3 for £20, silver for £8 per ounce (quite a lot, but that can make a lot of caps) and calcium acetylide for £3/kg. The only problem is the calcium acetylide - loads of places sell it, but only in places like Wales and Scotland where caving is a popular activity (they use it for lights, obviously). And since it's dangerous they won't post it, I'd have to go and collect it. So if I can't find a nearer place, I'll get a little acetylene tank.

[a_bab]

To Microtek :

I made my first batch of Ag2C2 when I was 13 (and kewl). I used my mother's jewelry to make AgNO3, and the silver acetylide was quite pure (dirty-yellow when precipitated , then it turned into a graysh color). I have found that is far too sensitive when dry; when wet, there is no problem at all. But in a dried state is more sensitive then AP, i.e. (my opinion).
I heard about a guy from my high school who had a stupid accident with this compound: he carried in a pocket some Ag2C2 stored in an empty matchbox, and suddenly it went off, leaving a nasty wound on his foot.
Then, it was my turn : I used to make no more than 1 gram of silver acetylide, stored in a small plastic box, like film canisters. Tehe involved batch was very dried, in a dark gray powdery form. I remember that I was holding the plastic box in my hand, trying to remove a paper label glued to the box, and suddenly it went off, leaving me (and a friend from my room) deaf. And my hand was filled with bruises and in some places (between the fingers) the skin was removed, etc.
Now, I believe that it was a static discharge wich caused Ag2C2 to detonate. Ag2C2 is a good primer, expensive also, by I would never advise someone to use it. It is easy to make, but is very sensitive. Think before you do it ! You may try on a small batch, well dried, how sensitive is.

------------------
Damn, I got a nitro-headache again...

http://move.to/pyromania

[mark]

Why bother with silver acetiyde? Just make AP.

[Mr Cool]

At least with acetylides they're predictable - fuck with 'em and you know they'll go off.
But peroxides are not as predictable, they might go off for no reason.
Also, despite being more sensitive, acetylides are often more stable than peroxides, meaning they're better for storage.
Jewelry may have copper etc. in it to make it harder, in which case your product won't be pure ("dirty-yellow" sounds bad) and therefore maybe more sensitive. The silver I can get is 999.9 purity, meaning it's 99.99% pure - not bad!
Well, I'll be able to try it soon, and I'll tell you all how it goes...

[Microtek]

Yes I expected very high sensitivity when I made some, and so I only prepared a very small amount, which was dark grey and turned black after a while. I kept most of it under water, and dried a tiny amount ( ca 0.01 g ). When dry , I divided the grain in two, expecting it to go off, but it didn't. I touched a flame to one of the halves, and it detonated with a sharp crack, but here comes the strange part: When I used the other half to test for impact sensitivity by placing it in a folding of Al foil and hitting it with a hammer, it didn't go off! I tried again and again and even though I hit it as hard as was reasonable while it was lying on an iron anvil, nothing happened. I then picked up the Al folding, which was now fused from the hammering, and held a flame to it. It exploded immediately.
I repeated these tests numerous times, both with samples from this batch and from others, but the results were always the same: Extremely sensitive to flame or spark, and totally insensitive to impact.
I used silver from an old spoon with 92.5 % silver, so maybe the impurities have some stabilizing effect.

[a_bab]

The 'dirty-yellow' color of Ag2C2 is the good one, of pure product. The silver obtained from my mam's jewelry was impure, because the nitric acid turned into green, but is enough though for silver acetylide making.
If you try to detonate small quantities as 0.01 grams, by hammer it might be impossible. I found too that silver acetylide is insensitive to strikes, but is EXTREMLY sensitive to flame. I guess that in this aspect is reasembles with lead stifnate.
...And why you expected for an explosion when you splitted a small quantity ? Is not NI3 though !

------------------
Damn, I got a nitro-headache again...

http://move.to/pyromania

[Jumala]

I want to get the leadazid from rifle primers.
I don´t know how much is in one primer cap ( I will weight it somehow) but I think 10-15 caps are enough for PETN. If not so I must use my second choise. It´s mercuryfulminate. (I have 250g mercury in stock)

Making PETN is also no problem.
It works without pure HNO3. I can use the H2SO4 + KNO3 method like wantsomfet shows.
PETN is very sensitive to leadazid so that smallest quantitys work.
I will try to upload the drawings somewere.
Takes a while.

[Microtek]

a_bab: My point was that I had read many places that silver acetylide was extremely sensitive, so I was surprised to find that it was only sensitive to flame and not impact.

[kingspaz]

sorry to bring up an old topic, but i believe i've found the root of confusion here :)
ok, there seems to be a mix up between silver acetylide (Ag2C2) and double salts (Ag2C2.AgNO3...think thats the formula).
many texts i have read call double salts silver acetylide for some reason. anyway, i have made both. double salts intentionally and silver acteylide accidently!
i made the double salts and found it to be a grey powder. the silver which hadn't dissolved i removed and decided to neutralise (to aid in cleanign it up later) with a half decomposed rock of CaC2 (CaC2 makes Ca(OH)2 in water). i added the silver and calcium carbide to some water. after a while i decide to fish out the silver which i couldn't see due to the water turning red for some reason...(impurities in the Cac2 i think). anyways, i was annoyed to find the silver had turned black! i thought this was simply silver hyrdroxide. i proceeded to ub it with a scourer (the plastic ones on the back of sponges), under a running tap, and there was a bright orange flash and a crack. i have thought of everything it could be and i have concluded it was Ag2C2 formed from the following reaction:
Ag2O + C2H2 ---> Ag2C2 + H2O
the silver had no doulbe salts on it because it was completely black. so in conclusion, silver acetylide (silver carbide) is very sensitive, to friction and likely other things, double salts however is not. i have read somewhere that acetylides of unreactive metals are highly sensitive, think it was some explosive compounds list somwhere. anyway, hope this has helped people some how.

[Phoenix]

i made as well silver carbid as leadazid and if you have any possibility to get sodium azid it is a much better choice then silver salts cause it is much more epowerful ( as much as a match head will be enough )

[S. Toppholzer]

I don't think this question is worth opening an new thread.
I made a couple of HMTD det.caps which are actually more overpowered sqibs since the HMTD has been pressed in with just a little bt of force - more than just tamping but sure less than usually required for a "regular" density. The stuff has been put in glass tubes as can be found for perfume samples.
Another "detonator" was made of a plastic syringe with halfway HMTD and the other half excellent pure TNP I am pretty proud of :cool:
all these squibs have been dried for two weeks in (err.. can't remember now how these flakes that suck up moisture from their surroundings) in a small airtight plastic container and then sealed with hot glue (first a couple of paper tissue layers, mind you).
A drawback or bonus is that all these "squibs" are overloaded by all means. they're fat and filled up to the rim.
In another thread I've read the comment that this actually could be regarded as some sort of mini hand grenade.
What I am worried now:
Is there a possibility that these "Squibs" will sponatneously detonate just like that? I fear for the safety of my family's ears at least. Now I put them in my car <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> - but I am reluctant of detonating these caps right now.
The one cap with HMTD/TNP has a thin plastic foil between the two layers so the acidity of the TNP wouldn't affect the well washed and neutralized HMTD.
I've also short circuited the wires so that no static charge would affect it.
Any comments are very much welcomed since I am a bit, er, nervous <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />

[kingspaz]

so long as the HMTD is not going to come into contact with the TNP, or the TNP eat the plastic and then come into contact with the HMTD then they should be ok. i don't want to gaurantee anything but from what you have said they shouldn't go off by themselves or anything, just store in a cool dry place and they should be fine. you seem to know what your doing, i mean, you have washed and neutralised your HMTD for a start which i know alot of people don't do. they then complain when it blasts half their arm off for no reason.
that wasn't really on topic but well done for not starting a new thread to ask that.

[Rat Bastard]

could you wet the AP/HMTD with isopropol and then compress it?

[Madog555]

yes, its good to wet it before its pressed and if you use alchol it will dry mutch faster but itf you use AP it is probaly a good idea to use a solvent that Ap is not soluble in or it may make bigger, more dangerous crystals

[S. Toppholzer]

kingspaz: I was thinking of this HMTD/TNP detonator again and that extra thin foil between the two layers bothered be - so I decided to better detonating it today. Just came back from the site.
I also had two other detonators filled with HMTD only with me.
These two I blasted first and the noise they made was like a very sharp, loud crack. Finally I blasted off the HMTD/TNP detonator. The explosion was much louder but the noise was not as sharp as the other caps. Was this maybe due to a lower det. velocity or could that be related to a different casing? The HMTD caps had a glass casing while the HMTD/TNP cap was made of a long, thin plastic cigarette lighter.
The HMTD caps didn't make any smoke at all, while the HMTD/TNP cap was producing a bit of black smoke. I guess that this was TNP that didn't detonate but burned instead. Also, when checking for the remains of the cap I found some TNP traces. So I guess the TNP only detonated partialy. Was this because the HMTD wasn't very hard pressed or because the TNP wasn't very much compressed but tamped in with a pencil?

<small>[ May 01, 2002, 07:26 AM: Message edited by: S. Toppholzer ]</small>

[Zambosan]

I imagine the partial detonation was due to exactly that; irregularities in the density of the TNP. Also, the black smoke... I have heard that TNT is so oxygen-poor that pure carbon is produced during detonation. I don't think it would be much of a reach to think that TNP does the same.

[Madog555]

yes, potassium picrate leaves a nice black blast mark of carbon on the table after deflagation(sp?). and sience it is a salt of TNP then i can bet that TNP does similar things

[S. Toppholzer]

please don't crucify me for this question:
How can I be sure I've loaded the correct density when handling HMDT or TNP?
I KNOW this info has to be somewhere but I cannot locate it.
I mean I know the gram/water method - but is there any other way?

[Zambosan]

Just calculate by volume, right?

<small>[ July 18, 2002, 01:18 AM: Message edited by: Zambosan ]</small>

[S. Toppholzer]

oh... ok. Thanks anyways.... Since I am not very good at mathematics, I guess I'll do the water measuring...