Detonating 98% Hydrogen Peroxide

[Yellow]

Most readers will probably know diluted hydrogen peroxide from making AP. But it is less known that concentrated ( 98% ) hydrogen peroxide can be detonated. With a detonation speed just under 9000 meters per second it is one of the most powerfull non-nuclear explosives.
To detonate concentrated hydrogen peroxide the combination of strong confinement and a strong booster charge is recquired.
The endsection of a metal pipe should be loaded with about 50 grams of fast detonating high explosive. A cylinder of glass or acid resistent plastic with the hydrogen peroxide, should then be inserted from the other end, and both ends of the pipe should be caped.
The finsihed bomb will look like one of the primitive pipebombs, filled with blackpowder, made by amateurs.
But when it detonates, it will pulwerize a target, that a primitive pipebomb would not even make a scratch on.
The greatest problem is off course to find an acid resistant glass- or plasticcylinder that will fit into the pipe.
It may take some time to find a cylinder that will fit - but the ability of this bomb to destroy even the hardest target will make it worth spending the time for it.

Note: Do not try to concentrate hydrogen peroxide by boiling; it may very easy result in an explosion.

[Cyclonite]

I take it you have never concentrated H2O2 to that high of level. After you hit a certain % it takes a very complicated setup to reach a higher concentration. You can make pure H2O2 with 2 chemicals, I forget what they are though. Its not a huge amount anyways.

[Mr Cool]

"concentrated (98%) hydrogen peroxide can be detonated. With a detonation speed just under 9000 meters per second ... To detonate concentrated hydrogen peroxide the combination of strong confinement and a strong booster charge is recquired."

Reliable references, please.

"it is one of the most powerfull non-nuclear explosives."

So is BP - it's in the top ten million, easily. Even if ~9000 km/s is true, VoD isn't everything...

And it would be so UNBELIEVABLY impractical to use 98% peroxide in any sort of home-made device. Dust... BOOM!

I believe peroxide of that strength is made from BaO2 and H2SO4...


Edit: And Yellow, why have you made five new topics with only eleven posts? One week ban for you, read the rules...

[Boomer]

Conc. H2O2 CAN explosively decompose, but I strongly doubt that it DETONATES, let alone at 9km/s!

He probably meant HP in mixes with a fuel, which are similar to fuming nitric/acetonitrile, N2O4/benzene or LOX/whatever. And the words "... the most powerfull non-nuclear explosives" ring a bell, seems he confused it with astrolite. :confused:

Even 80% HP mixed 3:1 with wood pulp has the power of a 65% NG dynamite. The 98% stuff would be even better, but I would not handle it ... :D

[vulture]

H2O2 above 70% will need most stringent clean room conditions or you can scrap your oxidized remains off the ceiling. Above 90% it can be detonated by dust, because it's decomposition is autocatalyzed.

Fuel mixes with H2O2 above 60% are hypergolic.

[Bert]

H2O2 above 70% will need most stringent clean room conditions or you can scrap your oxidized remains off the ceiling. Above 90% it can be detonated by dust, because it's decomposition is autocatalyzed.

Fuel mixes with H2O2 above 60% are hypergolic.

Pretty much what I recalled from the German WWII experience with high test H2O2 in rockets and turbines.

Having looked at Mr. Yellow's complete series of posts, it strikes me that he is perhaps trying to teach what he has not yet learned.

[nbk2000]

What if you could encapsulate collodial silver and disperse this evenly through the hi-test peroxide? When a shockwave from a detonator reached the capsules, they'd rupture, causing the almost instantaneous decomposition of the peroxide through the silver catalysized reaction.

[MightyQuinn®]

What if you could encapsulate collodial silver and disperse this evenly through the hi-test peroxide? When a shockwave from a detonator reached the capsules, they'd rupture, causing the almost instantaneous decomposition of the peroxide through the silver catalysized reaction.

I believe this is the same reaction used in the Jetpack. I think it used 75-80% H2O2. It made one hell of a thrust albeit for short durations.

[Zeitgeist]

I think in rocket engines, the HTP is sprayed through a catalyst screen of silver, or beads impregnated with KMnO4 etc. Colloidal Silver would be a whole new ball game - an unbeliveably violent reaction due to the immense surface area.

[nuclearattack]

I think it's impossible to home made 98% H2O2. I concentrated H202 from 4% to 40% but as the concentration rise the danger of an explosion rise dramatically. High conc. h202 is too much unstable, even if you can acquire (but i think it's impossible) 98% H2O2 you will need a Hi end equipment to handle it.
Why bother with H2O2 when you can make NG or BG very easily?

[Bert]

High conc. h202 is too much unstable, even if you can acquire

Here's a list of stuff you can't ship commercialy in the US (http://216.239.53.104/search?q=cache:WpsMLhdtUVkJ:hazmat.dot.gov/cfr_forbidden.pdf+%22hydrogen+peroxide%22%2Bshippi ng%2Bforbidden%2BDOt%2Blist&hl=en&ie=UTF-8)

In the US, H2O2 over 91% is forbidden by Dept. of Transportation from commercial transportation- Same as dry Mercury fulminate and other nasties. You're not going to buy it, you're not likely to make it, and you'd be stupid to try to use it for any practical project. The effort to try to do so would be far better spent on more conventional, safer and storeable HE's.

[nuclearattack]

Yes Bert i'm agree with you. No doubt about H2O2 availability.
In italy is forbidden selling H2O2 over 50% and i'm not able to find H2O2 over 24%. 24% is the max concentration used by professional hair dressers and i think it's impossible to find a higher concentration.

[nbk2000]

I see tanker cars of 30,000 gallon capacity, filled with 50% peroxide, sitting on a railroad siding, literally within eyeshot of my bed, just waiting for liberation of the contents. :)

Same goes for phosphoric acid, anhydrous HF gas, white phosphorus, etc, etc.

Getting the shit out of the tankers without killing myself in the process, though, is another story. :(

The advantage of using pure peroxide as an explosive would be that it's not a nitrogen containing chemical, thus immune to detection by almost every kind of detector, electronic or bioological, that uses the nitro- group for detection.

And it's not impossible to make. The process has been posted here before, using an azeotropic distillation to effect removal of the water, and sub-zero freezing to crystallize the pure peroxide crystals out of the solvent.

[tmp]

Hydrogen peroxide at 90% has been used in dragstrip rocket cars. Silver nitrate
is used as the catalyst. I saw the "Vanishing Point" rocket car at York U.S. 30
dragstrip(Pa.) back in the 80's. IIRC, the driver was using 20oz of 90% H2O2
for his runs. The car was lot quieter than either a rail, funny, or jet car, but the
results(< 5 second runs) were impressive !

[static_firefly]

Well just then i was thinking about ways to concentrate H2O2 to higher levels. In my efforts i decided to try and dehydrate the H202 with H2SO4. 50% H202 was mixed with 98% Sulphuric Acid. The mix bubbles around and a white mist given off and a little heat, i left it alone in the corner of the yard while i did this. I came 5min later to see it. The reaction had slowed down and there were 2 layers, a small layer of H2SO4 on the bottom and a clear layer on top. I diped in a wooden skewer in and out. With in a few seconds the stick fizzed then almost in an instant blackend to charcoal. Reminds me of Mn2O7 except not as explosive. I decided to test how it would work with some sort of flammable liquid. i put a drop of acetone in and instantly crystals formed. It took me a few seconds to relise i had just made Acetone Peroxide :P. After about 30min, when a skewer was dipped in and out, it was unable to charcoal the wood like before, im assumeing that the Acid might be decomposeing the H202 into water and oxygen (theres a few bubbles).

[The_Rsert]

You can make 98% H2O2 with 99% BaO2 and 98% H2SO4, too!
Mix the acid with the BaO2 in a little amount under very(!!!) heavy cooling.
Then filter the BaSO4 und vacuum!
Warning: It's very dangerous!

You can make BaO2 from BaNO3 by heating?!

Sorry about my english!

[apathyboy]

Wouldn't one of the organic peroxides like AP be just as immune to the nitro detection setup and be much more practical to make and detonate, especially as you would need a detonator, probably containing nitrogen based explosives for the pure peroxide anyways?

[me234]

Sure, AP might be undetectable to the detectors. But have you smelt AP lately?
No human would miss that after having smelt it just once.
AgC2 would be better, unless it's Agc2.AgNO3.
Dammit, gone of topic. apologies.

[CommonScientist]

Hey Bert, that list has ALL of the forbidden commercially shipped chemicals in the US on it? My dad hauled 75-80K lb loads of alumnium dross in dump trucks, the shit gets so hot it almost melts the trailer, catches on fire when wet, and puts off hideous fumes. He quit that job ebcause of the work hazzards, they wouldnt supply him saftey equipment, but they said he could turn down the loads, but when there is nothing else to haul, then you cant make any money that week.

Could I put some H202 on a watch glass, and set it infront of my de-humidifier to concentrate it? Ive done that with other chems, and it works pretty well. I suppose I could concentrate any chem to any % by putting it in a beaker, then watching the levels drop untill the desired level/% was acheived.

[FUTI]

Good subject.
Well back where I'm it is not legal to sell H2O2 at concentration higher then 30%. Industrially can be obtained (and they sell it but only to authorized companies) at higher concentration, mostly at 56%, 70% and 90%. Be very carefull! At concentration higher then 56% even its fumes can be explosive. It can be concentrated easily on vacuum-destilation from 30% to 90% then it becomes a very thick like honey. Proces with BaO2 is very old and can generate H2O2 (not to concentrated but...) but acid used in process can be problem if you want to concentrate the substance (as our friend learned experimenting...it made me freeze reading the start of your post I was thinking you now type with the hooks instead your fingers luckily sulphuric acid is little viscous it didn't make sufficent contact with the peroxide so the decomposition took place only at the contact surface between two fluids). Heat, strong acids and bases decompose peroxide. When it comes to other processes of generation I know at least two more (electrolysis of sulfuric acid for persulfate production (and then blah blah...) and through anthracene oxidation/reduction cyclic process). Chemist also use sometimes extraction of peroxide with organic solvent for its concentration (don't do that it takes veeery pure sovlent for this - not to mention it is dangerous). When it comes to rocket fuel yes H2O2 is used for that...Germany in WWII used it in the V-rockets (only one of rocket fuel combination used by Germans used it) and used Ca(MnO4)2 as catalyst (why Ca? I guess price was the factor.). After war it is tested in rocket engine that used Kerosine (plane fuel) and H2O2 (silver as catalyst). H2O2 is the main component its decomposition generates 800 degrees mixture of water and oxygen and at that point any fuel burns pretty much spontaniously, however price for the engine was enormous compared to a payload and that is abandoned.
I also heard that some submarines were tested after WWII based on German research on usage of H2O2 driven motor (I believe Stirlling type) but that it was to dangerous and noisy (not much of a help if you try to hide under water:) I heard the crew called its vessel HMS Exploder making jokes of its real name HMS Explorer), I think that some torpedoes still use this kind of propulsion. Any one can give me an answer to this?

[TheBear]

Torpedoes use H2O2 as propellant. One theory for why Kursk, the russian submarine, sank is that the H2O2 in the torpedoes decomposed due to contact with copper. Don't want to make the post longer since it's off-topic.

[JimmyJones]

I don't think it very safe to make such a high concentration and it would also seem very unlikely that most would be able to make such a high concentration at home.