AP Plasticizer

[Kettch42mk.2]

In an attempt to make AP crystals easier to work with, I mixed some with PVC glue. After mixing in enough to make the crystals clump together completely, I let it dry. To test it, I heated .25g in a spoon over a propane torch. The detonation was extremely loud compared to a similar quantity of straight AP. Anybody have any why this would be?

[plasma]

When CTAP is heated on a spoon it melts, as it melts it gets a higher density and the VoD gets higher. Try heating straight CTAP on a spoon and see if there is any differense.

[Madog555]

wtf?!?! u are heating a mix that has AP in it in a spoon. wtf is it supose to do!?!?!

was that an atemt at an improvised AP putty? u can also use rubber sement. im not sure how it compares to the traditional AP/SP + acetone and let dry mix which is said to be more powerful than TNT and i can believe it.

[kingspaz]

the advantage of 'traditional' AP putty with NC is that the binder is also explosive. thus creating a much greater explosive effect compared to inert binders.

[plasma]

What is the ratios of NC and CTAP in the 'traditional' AP putty

[kingspaz]

sorry, i haven't a clue! as far as i know you make a paste by dissolving smokeless powder (nitrocellulose) in acetone. to this paste you add as much AP as will mix with it. then you put it in the container of your choice and let it dry. you are then left with a rock solid block of explosive which is powerful and easily initiated with fuse.
i think thats how its done, i still haven't tried this yet because it STILL can't manage to nitrate cellulose succesfully.

[Kettch42mk.2]

Plasma, the louder detonation was in comparison to heating straight AP on a spoon.

Madog, This is only my third batch of AP, so I'm still playing around with it-trying to get a feel for its properties. Reading about other people doing stuff is great, but to really get a sense of how these things work, I need to mess around with them a bit. (In very small quantities, of course.)

[Madog555]

kingspaz, thats correct. i also cant find ratios. i was thinking about this the other day. ping pong balls work too. nitrostarch will also work.

[NoltaiR]

Hey guys, I haven't been around here much lately due to all the graduation parties going on along with me now working a lot more hours. (Not to mention my parents took my lab away until I move out of my house... I guess that means one of these days I am gonna have to get my happy ass an apartment). Anyways for this 4th of July and going to use the money that I would have otherwise spent on commercial fireworks to instead work on my old APrc mixes. And about 2 hours ago I just bought a gallon and a half of 3% H2O2 to be boiled down to 300mL of approximately 27-28% H2O2. I also bought a liter of acetone and a pint of rc.

Now on my past tests that were conducted a few months ago I never took pictures because I didn't want that kind of thing to get developed. But now my nextdoor neighbor has a digital camera so I am going to make plenty of visual for you guys.

[mr.evil]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica"> When CTAP is heated on a spoon it melts, as it melts it gets a higher density and the VoD gets higher. Try heating straight CTAP on a spoon and see if there is any differense.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">i think you are a idiot, heating primairy explosives on a spoon is suicide... (you CAN do it with TNT and other non sensitive HE's)

[mrloud]

I was under the impression that heating AP caused it to sublime. At the very least heating is supposed to destroy its explosive properties. Can anyone else confirm or deny this?

If you took too long heating the AP up in the spoon, this waiting time could affect its explosive properties. I'd like to see the same experiment performed but instead of heating the AP over a flame, use a fuse or a static electricity spark to cause the detonation.

<small>[ May 30, 2002, 04:35 AM: Message edited by: mrloud ]</small>

[plasma]

To mr. Evil

The melting would of course be done with an amount of CTAP similar to the quart of a pea. I really don't think this will kill you. But your are right, primaries should be handled carefully and be used only what it is ment to; explode controlled, far away from any living creature. :)

And mrloud I can asure that CTAP does explode when heated on a spoon untill it melts. (At least thats what happened when I tried it with a small amount)

[DBSP]

I don't think that the ratio of AP-putty is very important. As long as the AP-putty doesn't fall apart it shuld be fine. One thing you can do to improve it is to smear a thin layer of NC on the outside to make it waterproof and less sensitive to shock, friction and spark.

[electric emu]

I thougt i saw something that said under melt temp, it will detonate before melting. Im already scared of ap by just moving it.

[A.K.A : Dan The Crazed Aussie]

hey fellas.
I heard that u could make a pretty good binder for ap by mixing this in ratio= 80:20 acetone to pipe primer (The red stuff that smells like crap

[0EZ0]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica"> I heard that u could make a pretty good binder for ap by mixing this in ratio= 80:20 acetone to pipe primer (The red stuff that smells like crap </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">First of all PVC Pipe Primer Fluid , is MEK(Methyl Ethyl Ketone) with a dye. It has the consistency of water, but smells nothing like it.

What i think you are referring to is PVC Pipe Cement/Glue . It contains roughly 50-70% MEK with some type of soluble plastic.
It is a thick goo, with quite a nasty odour.

Now reading above the method of binding AP with PVC Pipe Glue is already mentioned. As for the ratios of each component, they were not.
To bind the AP with PVC Pipe Glue, use as little as is needed to bind it. Overdoing it will result in poor performance due to the PVC Pipe Glue being non-energetic, unlike Nitro Cellulose which is an energetic binder.

Anyone know how safe AP/PVC Glue would be, as compared to AP/NC?

[NoltaiR]

Now this is just a theory that will need some serious testing to prove... but any glue labeled 'extremely flammable' may serve as a good binder for crystalline type explosives such as AP.

[kingspaz]

NoltaiR, what exactly do you mean? do you mean the glue labelled 'extremely flammable' will be a more energetic binder? IF thats what your on about then it make balls all difference how flammable it is since AP is oxygen defficient and also the flamability is caused by the solvent not the glue.

[NoltaiR]

The statement came from results that I have had while testing non-flammable glues as binders (I.E. woodglue, white school glue) which led to my AP never detonating and rather just making a fireball.

Yet every glue that I have tested it with and found to be satisfactory has been flammable.

[kingspaz]

i don't think that has anything to do with the flamibility of the glue but more the sort of binder it is. the flammable stuff will use flammable solvents which are useful for dissolving plastic like binders. PVA for example is a shit glue which is flexible and rubbery even when dry. not hard such as other more plasitc glues.
does that make sense?....i'm not that good at explaining...

[NoltaiR]

Well the main problem that I should say that I have with APrc is making sure that it is completely dry, otherwise it will simply make a fireball (similar to wet AP). But just because the APrc looks dry doesn't mean it is.. I usually just have to wait until the outside of the clumps start getting sticky, because that means that the AP has completely dried and started to vaporize, leaving rc behind.

Anyways I set off a few 25g charges today.. nothing special, just blowing up fallen trees that have rotted.

[NoltaiR]

A thought came to me earlier today while rereading these posts.

As explained, the APrc is not very moldable; in fact, when you bend it too much it just breaks off into smaller chunks (that may be squeezed back together if you so choose). But I was thinking that because the APrc chunks are sticky, they could be placed onto vertical structures for deployment without something else to hold it there. Just stick a fuse in and ignite.

[kingspaz]

rc, i think the bezoylperoxide is used as a source of radicals (O in this case) in polymerising the glue or whatever it does to cure it.

[Zambosan]

Pretty close; the glue is already a fluid polymer, and the oxygen radicals cross-link it into a macromolecule.

[inferno]

Clear nailpolishes are made of nitrocellulose and butyl acetate, with smaller amounts of a few other things (On one of my sisters at least, they may vary).

Add some AP to the nailpolish, mold it into a tube or something, and stick a fuse of some kind in, cant AP/NC reach DDT when ignited by fuse? Still have to be careful with it, but its probably safer than straight AP in a tube.

[FMShadow]

apropos ap putty:
how insensitive is ap putty? can it be thrown against a wall without detonating? cause... i would like to have some ap or ap putty or ap whatever that is not so sensitive...
i mean i dont wanna blow my hands away while trying to make a pipebomb :D

[kingspaz]

FMShadow, AP putty is just as sensitive as AP is to shock and impact because its mostly AP! it is less sensitive to friction because the crystals are not free to move and scrape and rub against things.

also if you make pipe bombs with AP you deserve losing your hands for being so dumb.....use as little AP as possible to initiate a secondary.

[xtreme]

I have mixed AP with vaseline.

Nothing happend when I hit this with a hammer (perhaps with big hammer. It burns much more slowly than normal AP. It burns like BP.
I haven't checked what a blastingcap will do.....perhaps next.

First I have to make new AP. I have detonated my 3...4 weeks old AP today because I'am not happy with old AP in my bedroom :)

[xtreme]

FMShadow

Why you use pipe (metal tube) for AP-bombs?
AP detonated by itself. It is not BP that must be "packed" to give a boom. With metalpipe you can't look (if you want to be safe)to your detonation or only from a great distance. I use PVC (PolyVinylChloride) pipe (plastic) for just to be safe for direct fire or something. You can detonated HE in a plasticbag with a blastingcap in it ! So why take the risk for metal fragments in your or somebody else body?!

[inferno]

FMShadow: I think you should read a bit more about explosives before you ask stuff like that. I might be wrong but from what you said about pipe bombs, i think youre lacking a bit, i apologise if im wrong though.
A low explosive (LE) is a fuel/oxidiser mix, and when ignited (by flame, heat, friction, and sometimes shock) they burn very fast, such as blackpowder. Fireworks mixtures are low explosives. They are a homogenous mixture of an oxidiser (various nitrates, potassium/sodium chlorate, potassium perchlorate, potassium permanganate are the main ones) and a fuel (sulfur, charcoal, fine metal powders like Al, Mg, Zn etc)
A high explosive is a single chemical, not a mix. It is a molecule, that when exposed to a shock (from another HE, hammer blow etc) breaks apart, releasing the energy bonding it's atoms together. This energy comes out as heat, a shockwave, sound and light. Whether in a pipe or not, a HE will make a nice boom. The energy released is the sound, not the sudden burning of it. Some HE's are more sensitive than others, eg nitrogen triiodide (touch powder, NH&lt;sub&gt;3&lt;sub&gt;.NI&lt;sub&gt;3&lt;sub&gt; is obviously touch sensitive, and will detonate from the shock of a feather being dropped on it. Ammonium nitrate (NH&lt;sub&gt;4&lt;/sub&gt;NO&lt;sub&gt;3&lt;/sub&gt;) is almost impossible to detonate without a sensitiser, like nitromethane, or commonly just oil (then called ANFO - ammonium nitrate fertilizer and oil), in which case it is still very hard to detonate.

There are two types of HE, primary explosives, and secondary explosives. Primary explosives are much more sensitive, some examples are AP, Mercury Fulminate, and nitrogen triiodide, though it is not used for anything more than demonstrations because it is too sensitive. Secondaries generally need the shock of another HE to detonate, such as Ammonium nitrate, trinitrotoluene (TNT) and Sodium chlorate, and often a sensitiser, such as oil for AN and vaseline for SC.

That is where the "detonator" or blasting cap comes into use. It is usually an initiator LE, such as blackpowder, with a fuse into it, which, when ignited, suddenly compresses and detonates the primary, which is often followed by a secondary, in (usually) a small metal tube. The primary/secondary detonating releases a shock wave through the main charge of a secondary explosives, which then detonates.

Most HE's have a DDT point, or Deflagration to Detonation Transition, where, when the HE is ignited by flame or spark, it burns very quickly, like BP, then turns into detonation. This all happens very quickly though, and you cant really "see" if its deflagrating or detonating, though the sound and crater etc will usually tell you. Some HE's are also LE's, such as guncotton, or nitrocellulose. If ignited by flame, it burns very quickly. If shocked, it detonates. Most primaries burn very well with a small fireball when ignited in the open, but some when confined will reach the DDT point.

Im sorry if you knew all this, but whether you use a metal pipe or a plastic pen or film canister, your AP putty will still make a nice bang.

<small>[ June 17, 2002, 04:26 AM: Message edited by: inferno ]</small>

[kingspaz]

one last thing, ANFO actually stands for ammonium nitrate fuel oil.

[Omogen]

the formula with AP+SP and acetone...does the ap get less sensitive also?

Hmmmm, APputty more powerfull than TNT? nae i dont really believe that but it can be...

Btw there was a guy who posted something about his own produced plastic explosive which he wanted to sell here...i think he named it to HARDEX or something...did someone get the formula of him?

The videos on his site were pretty amazing

sry for my english im from sweden and that kinda explains alot

[DBSP]

Does it?, my english is just fine. How old are you btw?

The AP putty seemes to be a little less sensitive, at least when talking about friction.

<small>[ June 11, 2002, 09:51 AM: Message edited by: DBSP ]</small>

[Omogen]

im 17 and live in Stockholm

i always say so so noone will say that my english sucks

[xoo1246]

Keep on typing/reading and your english will improve.
From Sweden too.

[kingspaz]

ok, this is me trying to get it back on topic...
i think the reason AP putty is less sensitive to friction is because each AP crystal has a thin layer of NC over it protecting it from being rubbed by other crystals and other objects. also the crystals are held in fixed positions so they cannot move around and scrape on each other or anything else. i can't think of any other reasons...i am not speaking from experience here as i STILL haven't had success with NC :confused:

[Rat Bastard]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica"> kingspaz, thats correct. i also cant find ratios. i was thinking about this the other day. ping pong balls work too. nitrostarch will also work.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">Same here. I have searched everywhere and I can't find a damn ap putty ratio. I keep on seeing this:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">Pour the required amount of acetone peroxide into a bowl, than slowly add the paste until the mixture has a moldable density than remove. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">How the hell are we supposed to know what the "required amount" is?!?!

:mad:

[ALENGOSVIG1]

The ratio of AP to NC doesnt really matter. If the putty is crumbly, then you added too much AP. In this case, add a little more NC paste. If its sticky and gooey then you didnt add enough AP. I cant believe im explaning this. It just seems so obvious to me.

If you cant figure out how to make AP putty then do yourself a favour and stay away from explosives. You'll live longer. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

<small>[ June 17, 2002, 02:38 AM: Message edited by: ALENGOSVIG1 ]</small>

[Rat Bastard]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica"> I cant believe im explaning this. It just seems so obvious to me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">We are not psycic and know every ratio and amount.

I have made HMTD and AP many times without error, it's just that the AP putty instructions were too damn vague.

Vagueness can nickname you "stumpy" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

[Sparky]

I was reading a book that mentioned styrene-butadiene rubber as being used as chewing gum. It might not be as powerful as NC since it is not energetic but NC putty would dry out wouldn't it?

Styrene butadiene would keep its physical properties for storage, you would have to use HMTD instead of AP if you wanted to store it of course. I found styrene-butadiene on the internet sold as Glaziers Choice mirror adhesive GC 2010. I think a solvent for it is naphtha. You can also get styrene-butadiene from make your own bubble gum kits I guess. You could probably either dissolve it in naphta and then add the explosive or knead the explosive into non dissolved rubber. I'm not sure if this would work but if it did the putty would have excellent physical properties.

This product is also used in car tires but it is vulcanized, so not very useful in that form.

[electric emu]

I just made some ap/sp putty today but its drying, also i didnt hear anyone say rocket fuel binders like r45.

[kingspaz]

Sparky, NC/AP putty is supposed to dry <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> you mold it over or in whatever you want, put a fuse in and let it dry. once its dry you have a solid block of explosive in the shape you molded it too. then you light the fuse and run :D

[electric emu]

I had a little problem drying, i put mine in half of an easter egg shell and only the top dried and the bottom stayed wet so i took it out the egg shell and it worked well and mine looked like wood when it was dry.

<small>[ July 08, 2002, 05:49 PM: Message edited by: electric emu ]</small>

[Purple Fire]

I make most of my AP into putty by mixing it with smokeless paste. It comes out as a fairly solid greenish stuff that will snap if you drop it. It is fairly insensitive to friction, and will detonate unconfined from a fuse. The only problem is that my visco occasionally goes out when it hits the putty, I have no idea why. As far as I can see, there is no change, or maybe a slight increase in the det. velocity of the putty. Fun to play with none the less :D

[Anthony]

If the fuse fails where it meets the putty, then it's probably that the solvent in the putty has dissolved the laquer on the fuse and screwed around the powder train.

[electric emu]

Thats what it did to my fuse and it started to unravel but it still burned.

<small>[ July 10, 2002, 03:27 PM: Message edited by: electric emu ]</small>

[marky]

If you want some Ap prober putty the go and buy ping-pong balls they are made with NC so all you have to do is disolve them in acetone and
wola there you have it NC putty all you have to do is put in some Ap and then let it dry with some fuse in it ...

Hope that helps people

[kingspaz]

the reason ping pong balls are unfavourable is because they also contain champhor which is non energetic and also the NC used in the balls has a low nitrogen content so is now were near as effective as smokeless powder.

[marky]

What about the people that cant get there hands on NC powder so they use ping-pong balls???

It still works it just sometimes doesent fully detonate...
:rolleyes: <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

[Anthony]

Yeah, that's what generally everyone does...

[ALENGOSVIG1]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica"> What about the people that cant get there hands on NC powder so they use ping-pong balls??? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">Thats never happened to me. It ALWAYS fully detonates. My guesse is that your putty wasnt fully dried. It may have been dried on the outside, but below the surface it was most likely still wet.

Or mabe your using way to much NC and not enough AP. Although i dont think this is the case becuase for it to not fully detonate it'd have to a thick paste of NC with barely any AP content. But thick paste isnt putty so im guessing (hoping) thats not the problem.

<small>[ July 21, 2002, 11:09 PM: Message edited by: ALENGOSVIG1 ]</small>

[marky]

no im telling other peoples stories about the not fully det thing.

[Mick]

[quote[Sparky, NC/AP putty is supposed to dry you mold it over or in whatever you want, put a fuse in and let it dry. once its dry you have a solid block of explosive in the shape you molded it too. then you light the fuse and run

[/quote]

just a word of warning when lighting APP. make sure all of the APP is covered by something(like a couple of layers of tape). you shouldn't be able to see any of the APP.
if your using a fuse(eg. a sparkler) all it takes is 1 spark to set the hole thing off.

altho this seems pretty obvious to most people, i just thought i might post it just in case someone gets the idea that because its putty it doesn't matter (hey, you never know with all the newb's around here)

i left a tiny little sqaure of APP visable(1mm x 1mm). i had enough fuse for atleast 60seconds to run away. i lit it, then started running, and after 10 seconds it went off. could have been shitloads worse.

[binary mz]

im new to ctap (5 months in to it) i never like being around or using it when its dry, so ive been doing some expiriements lookin for good/cheap ways to de-sensitize ap. i cant get smokeless powder anywhere. the only place that sells powder here is wal-mart and they only sell single base pyrodex. real slow stuff. but, i've been mixing it with nail harder with very good results. i'll usually just get a wet piece about the size of a grape and put it on a piece of carboard and flatten it out and add nail hardner and mix with the wooden end of a match. real thick so it drys fast but not too much so theres extra dry ap everywhere. but, after its dry i'll put some home made fuse (cotton string dipped in pyrodex and water, dried, and covered with teflon pipe tape) and cover it all with some duct tape. first time i did this i was expecting it to flare up real fast so i put it on the end of a wooden picnic bench, lit it, and stepped back about 5 feet. damn. my past experience was just bp and flash. so, yah, this scared the hell out of me. it blew a nice chunk of the corner and left a weird smell in the air. i plan to try out pingpong balls, rubber cement, and pvc glue. what else does everyone mix it with ? any one use wet ap ? how does everyone use it? just dry ap lightly packed in to a tube? im to scared to do that. i always clean it and dip it in bicarb solution and never had problems with it, then again i treat it like nitroglycerin...

[kingspaz]

haha, thats funny since AP is actually more sensitive than NG. the sensitivity of NG is often over eggagerated. so long as you wash and neutralise it well and avoid scrapes and heat you should be ok. but if your not prepared to take the consequences if it goes off when you don't expect it to (which peroxides are prone to) then don't play with it.

[megalomania]

Lets call it TCAP or just AP shall we. Unless anyone can offer a published source that calls it CTAP, I have a published source that calls it TCAP, but acetone peroxide is a more acceptable name since technically you get a mixture of the tricyclo, dicyclo and non-cyclic poly peroxides. Everyone does remember the polyperoxide part right?

[Darkbloodpriest]

Please excuse what seems to be a lack of experience(it only seems that way). I am only posting this to prove a point.

I have seen a experiment where a certain person(who shall remain anonymous) had made a fairly unstable form of ap, and then mxing it with plain old rubber cement as a plasticiser.

The steps were:

1. A household glass of a 3 cup capacity was filled with
approximately one and a half cups of high strength acetone.
2. Approx one cup of baquacil 30% hydrogen peroxide was poured
into the cup with the acetone.
3. The mixture was stirred for 1 minute.
4. Approx 60 drops of 27% sulfuric acid were added to the mixture
(while stirring the mixture) over a 10 minute period.
5. The glass was put into a refridgerator and left to sit
undisturbed for 48 hours.
6. The mixture was filtered and simultaneously washed.
7. The mixture was left to dry for 10 minutes at room temperature.
8. The ap crystals(about 20 grams) were added to their own
volume of rubber cement in a casting container(the bottom
of a plastic coke bottle).
9. After sitting for 5 minutes, a oily liquid(toluene?)had
formed on top of the mixture and was subsequently poured off.
10. The last step was repeated 3 more times over a 2 hour period.
11. The mixture was left to sit in it's casting container for
12 hours.
12. The mixture was removed from the container and left to sit in the corner of the persons' basement.
13. Over the course of 3 months the mixture was subjected to temperatures ranging from 95 degrees fahrenheit down to 25
degrees fahrenheit.

There the mixture remains.
Any questions of a intelligent nature?

(I hope I don't get a kewl roasting for posting this one...)

----------------------------------
To live in the past is to die in the present.

[blindreeper]

I was having a thought about binding AP. Why not use MEKP? It's easy to make. The mix of AP and MEKP, would be less sensative *I think*, increased density, thus potentially higher VoD, all organic peroxides, you could use it straight away because the MEKP is explosive and you wouldn't have to wait for it to dry and it would be easy, fast and cheap. Well thats my 2 cents. Once again am I talking through my ass?

[NoltaiR]

First of all, the spelling of 'would' in the sig of the previous poster should be wood.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Anyways onto a more serious note; a variable that is greatly proportionate to the resulting VoD and stability, is the strength of the bonds within and between the molecules that make up the explosive. These bonds may be natural such as a the way that there are differing bonds of acetone peroxide (dimeric and trimeric being the most common but monomeric exists in a small amounts in a more unstable and volatile state as well as tetrameric which is formed when the normal reagent mixture for acetone peroxide is supplied with a quantity of SnCl --tin chloride).

Natural bonds exist between the molecules as well and that is caused by the way the explosive is crystallized during synthesis and when an explosive is cast (which is actually the most favorable of all forms of bonding because the explosive reaches its maximum density).

Artificial bonds are used to take most natural bonds to the next level while not facing as much danger as one would incur when attempting to cast an explosive. Artificial bonding agents such as glue make the molecules lock fairly tightly together while at the same time releasing much of the microscopic airpockets within an otherwise powdered explosive that accounts for a compound having a poor density.

[TheBear]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">
8. The ap crystals(about 20 grams) were added to their own
volume of rubber cement in a casting container(the bottom
of a plastic coke bottle).
9. After sitting for 5 minutes, a oily liquid(toluene?)had
formed on top of the mixture and was subsequently poured off.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">Depending on how much toluene you prored off you lost some AP there (AP being soulable in toluene).

[NoltaiR]

First off if there was ANY moisture in the AP than that is what made up most of the oily mixture (rubber cement drives water out of AP at an incredible rate.. especially if the AP has just been strained to complete the synthesis; enough rubber cement to cover it will result in a nice little puddle of water flowing out of it). There will be some toluene in runaway but depending on how liquidy the runaway is a good way to determine about how much water content there was (toluene will actually be the have a lesser density of .866 g/mL as opposed to water's approximately 1g/mL).

Also bear is correct in saying AP.. this will become apparent, but due to the extra mass that the rubber cement adds to it you really don't have much to lose. Also a good thing to remember is always wait a minimum of 3 days before using the APrc because although it may look dry, the smallest amount of moisture can severly hurt its performance (even to the point that the APrc won't detonate if you are testing it unconfined).

An added chemical that I believe to aid in the performance of the APrc is n-heptane which is in elmer's brand rubber cement.

[Darkbloodpriest]

I just realized a critical(maybe) error in my previous post...
Substitute every instance of rubber cement for the words "contact cement."
Sorry for any confusion or inconvenience(lost limbs etc.) this may have caused.

----------------------------------------
To live in the past is to die in the present.

<small>[ December 10, 2002, 09:05 PM: Message edited by: Darkbloodpriest ]</small>

[Keyser Soze]

Darkbloodpriest, did you really only get 20 grams of AP? Or is that all you added to the contact cement? Because 20 grams seems like a small yield for 1 cup of 30% H202 and 1.5 cups of Acetone. I have tried APrc a number of times but for me it takes a long time to dry fully.

<small>[ December 11, 2002, 03:34 PM: Message edited by: Keyser Soze ]</small>

[Syanide]

A friend of mine has recently made AP with similar amounts as Darkbloodpriest.

He added approximately 1.5 cups acetone and 1.5 cups H2O2 at 35% along with 5 ml of muriatic acid (HCL) and he got well over 125 grams <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> . I know this because he filled an old container of KNO3 with the AP.

I agree with Keyser Soze, 20g seems like a small yield.

[Trinitrotoluene]

I recently had a dream about setting off AP putty. I got to say AP putty is stronger then stright AP. In my dream I molded Ap into a irregular shaped cast weighing 4 grams, when buried 15cm then detonated a loud boom, nice shockwave, and small dirt chunks flying 15 feet high. The second one which was molded into a cube 1cm X 1cm weighing 1.4 grams was also buried 15 cm below the earth, below that a soda bottle, it was really supriseing the damage done to the soda bottle. The same test was performed using stright AP, 2 grams of it, the damage much less, the explosion bearly noticeable, and shockwave much weaker.

[THErAPIST]

Wow.. This is one really old topic to be bringing back up... I just re-read this whole thread and noticed that noone suggested the use of wax. I am actually going to be setting off a 30g charge today on a bouy(sp?) thats in the river that I live near. Anyone ever seen that really oily candle wax? It's a really soft stuff, and if you hold it in your hand, your hand will get oily. Take some of this wax and mix it with as much AP as it will hold and still be somewhat moldable. It gets really soft in warm weather(that should be a given) and the opposite in cold weather. To use it, you just hold it in your hand for a second so that it gets soft and then you press it onto whatever you want it on. Then just lay a blasting cap on it or press one sidewys into it and lite the fuse. When it detonates it gives off a little smoke from the wax that was boiled/ vaporised but its still pretty powerful. I'd also like to say that if you press it onto walls and such it will stick. Just figured I'd throw in the wax plasticiser idea though.

Tri... How did you use 2g of ap? Was it pressed into a cap or what? If that's the case, there probably wasn't as much damage done to the bottle since there was MUCH less explosive actually near the botte to do any damage to it...

[Trinitrotoluene]

In my dream it was pressed into a 4mm plastic drinking straw using a matchstick, well 4 of them, they were taped togeather with one of them fuse inserted.

IMO I think AP putty should be coated with a layer of nitrocellulose, since I beleave that there are AP crystals sticking out of the cast and moving it generates friction, it can be easily prevented by adding a layer of coating.

[knowledgehungry]

Therapist your talking about those citroneela style candles right? the ones that come in a can for keeping mosquitos away? It is always best to use another explosive as a binder IMHO, it makes it more powerful. Has anyone done any experiments using AP NC and NG? That would be interesting to see, im not sure what advantages there would be over NC and NG save using less NG but it was just an idea.

[matjaz]

I just dreamt of making some APrc. (I think that glue was rc, anyway... It's called universal glue or caoutchouc glue, it's yellow, consistence of honey, smells like petrol and burns. The bond remains flexible when dry. Is that the thing?)

Approx. equal proportions by volume of dry AP and this RC were mixed to a pale-yellowish dough. At first it would stick to fingers, but after kneading it well, it stopped sticking. After 15 hours, it still doesn't sweat any liquids and I don't think it will. Stored in a film canister it remains pliable, but is, surprisingly, getting a bit harder anyway despite airtight storage.

It ignites readily from flame or energized steel wool. The critical ball diameter for unconfined detonation is at 2-3mm (=1/10"). Smaller balls just flare, bigger ones always detonate.

I'm going to dream one more thing with this material:
I'll make a few identical blasting caps in tiny electrolytical capacitor cases, ignited electrically. Half of them will be stored at room temperature, the other half in the freezer at 4C. Then every week or two, I'll detonate one of each. (I might do it on a piece of thin alluminum sheeting each time and measure the deformation from the blast. Any other ideas?) Will post the results here.

[tom haggen]

I will try to post some AP putty pics when I can figure out how

[tom haggen]

Sorry about post whoring, but my first post was a quick post and I was unable to upload any pics. anyway heres a pic.

[xyz]

Is there some sort of coating on those?

Otherwise it looks like the sparks from the fuse could set off the AP putty as soon as you lit the fuse.

[blindreeper]

I was thinking the exact same thing! About the picture though, you could have cropped it a massive amount, we only need to see the AP putty not the desk or whatnot that it is resting on!

[Mr. Yuck]

My AP putty has the exact same color as tom haggen's. I usually form mine into a block, 1/2 high, 3in. long, and 2in. wide. I leave a hole for a small cap. Then it is coated in many layers of NC, and then a final coating of rubber. The rubber I use is intended for coating handles of tools, such as pliers. I have one concern with drying though. Regular DBNC laquer cracks as it solidifies. If any cracks occur in the drying process whle AP is present, I believe that the stress and or friction may cause detonation. So one tip, when your form yours, make sure it has a large surface area for your solvent to evaporate. If it is casted in a can or some other cylindrical that is reasonably large, be careful. To be safe when drying any of the charges, do it outside.

[tom haggen]

well its under 640X480 pixels and I was under the impression that was an acceptable size. I'm definetly rethinking my method of ignition.

[Rhadon]

well its under 640X480 pixels and I was under the impression that was an acceptable size. That size would be acceptable if those 640 x 480 pixels were occupied by something of interest, and that does only apply to less than 50% of your image. I don't understand the argumentation that one doesn't need to crop an image when at lest the half of it is useless just because its overall size is still acceptable... Crop it next time, okay? It would have been less work for you than it was for me to type up this post.

[tom haggen]

I will indeed crop more next time. sorry about that.

[tom haggen]

Well I ended up gluing those 2 balls together and using a longer fuse. It was a somewhat strong detonation, but I think I have made bigger booms before. Its hard to say though cause I plugged my ears. I definetly felt a nice little shock wave. I was standing with in a 15 foot radius. next time i make these things I'm going to coat them in some master plumer abs black cement. After the acetone is done evaporating from thier insides of course. That way there will be no AP exposed.

[Jimmybooyah]

I've been thinking alot about APP lately and have had some questions about the possibility of increasing the power. Has anyone tried adding fine meshed Al, or somthing like AN to the mix. I dont know if Al would help, although it seems to be added to alot of explosvies to provide hot spots or somthing like that, and I read somwhere that AP is oxygen deprived. The last few detonations I have seen have had alot of smoke with them, I dont know if its cause by the SP, or if it is unburned fuel in need of more oxygen. Any ideas?

[U.S.M.C-Man]

Sorry I am not knowledgable on explosive making, I am mostly used to firearms/gun smithing. What is AP and where can it be obtaind? Please let me know. Thanks!

[nuclearattack]

To Jimmybooya:
adding Al powder will surely increase the output power. Al reacts during the detonation increasing the temperature, this means more output pressure/more power. This is why Al is added to a lot of explosives! However i noticed that adding ammonium nitrate powder is the best choice for AP putty. As you said AP is oxigen deprived and AN has a lot of oxigen to release during the reaction. Only one note:if you don't want to ignite your putty with a detonator, don't add too AN or the putty will become a little insensitive to a fuse.

[wrench352]

USMC MAN, First read the rules,I would have done more searching.AP stands for acetone peroxide as opposed to say,ammoninum perchlorate.UTFSE.

[U.S.M.C-Man]

USMC MAN, First read the rules,I would have done more searching.AP stands for acetone peroxide as opposed to say,ammoninum perchlorate.UTFSE.

Sorry, I guess I did not look hard enough, everythig I was finding only called it AP.

- U.S.M.C-Man

------------------------------------

Exercise: How many rule violations do we see here? Banned!

Rhadon

[thrall]

Though it has been covered in the fourum in older threads if one searches, I've tried this thing and it worked fine. I used chewed chewing gum for plstisizing AP. I first tested the sesitivity of the stuff by hammer and kneaded small protions of AP with a chewed chewing gum by hands and it was great. I should say the perfact plastic explosive I've made. Same method was used for HMTD and again with similer results.

[tom haggen]

I had some detonaters made out of single base smokeless powder and AP. I put one in a two liter and shreded it to pieces. If I can upload an mpeg4 file I will post the footage....well nevermind the limit for my file is 500 measly kilobytes and my file is 1.92mb. mabey i will try and convert it to a giff. although I figured mpeg4 would work good

[Sonny Jim]

Today I set off 5g of AP putty I made. 1g of NC was added to acetone and 4g of AP was mixed well in. The mix formed a white paste, that was quite thick. It would roll off a spoon but take a while to start flowing. The putty was allowed to dry for 18 hours, forming at the end a little lump of material that, although solid and able to hold shape, was still manipulateable a little bit. Here it is:

http://www.villagephotos.com/viewpubimage.asp?id_=8262217

A fuse was inserted and lit. It detonated with a nice bang and put an appreciable dent in the metal sheet it was taped to. It was an aluminium sheet, with quite a bit of give in it that will have absorbed some of the force.

http://www.villagephotos.com/viewpubimage.asp?id_=8262216

I dont think the putty was completely dry. I couldnt be arsed to wait any longer. Next time though I will give a longer drying time and see if it makes much difference. The NC I nitrated myself, cotton pads.

Here's a little movie of the putty going off.

http://angry_jack.tripod.com/puttyshort.wmv

I'll film the next few putty tests I do also to compare.

Tom, if you want I will host the file for you.

[Myrol]

Three days ago i plasticised one tablespoon of a 50/50 mix Acetoneperoxide and Potassiumnitrate with Vaseline and some thick Petroleum! The mix is yellow and relatively good plastic but i think i used to much plasticizer! I will see if it works to set it off but around 25% Plasticizer should kill all Energetic work...probably....? Is there a good way to plasticise AP without NC? Polyisobutylen out of Chewinggums or Vaseline and some Oil should work! The only thing you must lokking for is to use not more than 15% Plasticiser because the lack of Oxygen in pure AP is high, but with plasticiser......oh god..

[tom haggen]

Ya thats great sonny jim I will emailed you the file. On a side note I had to copy and paste your link in order to view the video clip. Here's a still frame of the clip that sonny jim will be hosting. It's pretty bright does anyone think that this detonater deflagrated and only partially detonated?

[Sonny Jim]

I've not noticed any light output from an AP detonation. As you saw in my video the explosion just went off without any flash at all. I think that part of your putty deflagerated causing detonation to the rest. A fireball that size would be made by a really small amount of putty deflagerating, smaller than your putty balls in the pics I reckon.

How was the noise, was it a pop or a bang?

[tom haggen]

Ya those first pics of putty I posted a while ago detonated with out any light out put. I think that still frame is at the exact moment when the explosion is transitioning from deflagrating to detonation, . As for the bang I mailed you the file check your mail and post it that would be very cool.

[me234]

What's that little circle surrounding it? Is that just something on the ground or what? Shock wave? Doubt it myself 'cause if the picture was taken long enough after the det went off then the shock wave should be long gone, unless it's like you said and burnt into detonation and the pic was taken as the transformation occured, or slightly afterwards? look closely to the left of the flame.

[tom haggen]

No i'm a fucking idiot. I remembered after posting this that my friend was sitting in a chair right there. When I moved it there was a ring imprinted in the carpet. I guess my detonator just deflagrated quit a bit before transitioning into detonation.

[Hang-Man]

<a Href=http://hangthearmsdealer.tripod.com/ap.wmv>Click Here</a> to see a street sign getting raped by some AP putty. It was about 4 or 5 grams iirc mixed with melted ping-pong ball. The street sign is bent to hell.

Edit: Seems tripod dosn't like remote loading. when you get to the error page just put the address "hangthearmsdealer.tripod.com/ap.wmv" in the URL and it seems to work.

[Arthis]

Hello. Matjaz, maybe your universal glue still continued to dry while in an airtight container because of the mix with AP. I mean it can be both due to small air bubbles that remained inside because of the cristals, and to AP itself, or unwashed acid, that may cause solidification of the glue.
I would be using some solvent to dilute a little the glue, fill the bubbles (more liquid means less bubbles) , let it partially dry until you get the right flexibility, then store.

Ah, and maybe the canister wasn't fully filled, so the is air remaining inside that causes further strenghtening of the putty.

[matjaz]

Arthis,
I think this glue is just rubber dissolved in some petrol cocktail. So getting dry is not a chemical reaction with the air (bubbles) here... I think it must be all due to solvent evaporation.

I settled with the thought that the solvent simply escapes the canister. They are not very airtight and I tried with just a few drops of gasoline in a similar canister. They disappear in a matter of days, so that must be it.
Your're right, it wasn't full of putty. I don't feel like handling a 20g piece of a primary. :-) That's a good idea, to redissolve, harden a bit and then pack airtight.

I still store some of those tiny dets I was refering to in the same post. The stuff seems very stable (in terms of gradual loss of power, not in terms of safety, that is). I'll post some intermediate data so that you don't all have to wait a couple more months till the end of testing period. Stay tuned... :)

[matjaz]

Let me tell you about this very vivid dream I had.

A batch of tiny detonators was made in the beginning of January. Electrolytic capacitor pots (5mm outer diameter, 6mm long) were filled with 30mg of APrc each and left open for two days for the rc to dry a bit. Each was then fitted with a steelwool electric igniter and sealed with epoxy glue, see figure 1, left.

The first sample was tested after one day, placed in an aluminum can of a tealight candle as seen on the right side of Fig. 1. The can got a dent when detonated (figure 2, left). The rest of the caps were stored, some of them in the freezer, some at room temperature. They were detonated at different times, each in the same geometry with a fresh tealight can as the witness plate. You can see the results in the attached photo.

There's no significant difference between room storage and cold storage. But there definitely is a trend with storage time. The ripe ones are way more brisant. The last pair of witness cans was almost torn apart. The great thing is that on this time scale AP decomposition obviously isn't a problem here.

Rubber cement getting harder (increasing the VOD)? Or, less likely, some chemistry going on in there... Who knows, but after a decade or two, one of these babies may be able to put down a wall. ;)

[Jimmybooyah]

The first time I ever thought about APP it was made using Single base powder because it was the cheapest stuff I could buy. When mixed with equal parts AP and SP and enough acetone to make it wet, it had a nice solid consistancy, you could ball it up and it would hold to that shape. Unfortuanly though when it detonated it had alot of smoke, so the next logical step was to use DBSP. When this DBSP, its the cheapest stuff around again, is mixed 1 to 1 with AP and acetone is added it forms a goo, that just fills any container you put it in. Cardboard tubes work well, they allow for the acetone to be soaked up into the tube and then evaporate off, usually takes about 5 days to be really dry. The smoke problem has cured itself, but for some reason when a tube is packed full, 5 days later it has half that volume of solid a problem that did not occur with SBSP. I'm thinking next time mix 1 to 1 DB and SP, and maybe that will make a nicer consistancy and not the weird volume flux. Any idea on where the stuff is going? I was amazed, it isnt like this is just an air pocket that is getting filled in, this is like an 1/8 of a lb dissappearing. Hope this post wasnt too long.

[Boomer]

Maybe the acetone dissolved the NG out of the DBSP, and it soaked into the cardboard?

You are using too much binder BTW, normally you liquify the SP with acetone and knead as much AP in as possible (>3 parts for 1 part SP).

Be carefull with the kneading, there have been several detonations during mixing (here and on 2 other forums), some costing fingers! Better make a less sensitive HE and plasticise that, it is way safer, stays moldable and is much more brisant (APP wont severe a 7mm x 60mm steel plate using just 40g).

[Jimmybooyah]

Thanks Boomer, I took your advice, one part DBSP with 1 Part AP and 2 parts AN. The AN was ground down till powder and mised with 600 mesh Al. The stuff had a much better consistancy and hopefully it will still be detonatable with just a .223 case full of AP.

[FinnBell]

I know we have discussed this before but never really went into depth. I bought some of that blue puddy for posters and junk soaked some in gasoline and when I got a weird goo I took that out and I dont know if this is the stuff or not. I remember seeing something about different ways to get the polyisobutylene out of putty but they never really discussed any ratios for binding it with youre explosive. Does anyone have any experience with this? Mine is too gooey. What did I do wrong?

[nbk2000]

It's 'too gooey' because that's the way it's supposed to be. Add a powder to it and mix it well and the 'gooeyness' will disappear. :)

[FinnBell]

Well even after the addition of the AP crystals (roughly a film cannister full )it still seems too soft and it wont dry at all. Is it possible the stuff isnt polyisobutylene? By the way, its a weird white color. Is that consistent with what everyone has seen? Im just afraid since, I didnt use blue tack and it doesnt actually say it contains PIB that maybe this isnt the right stuff. I guess I'll let it dry another day or two or maybe add some more AP.

[Boomer]

It is NOT supposed to dry, it should give a PLASTIC explosive like C-4, NOT something like AP putty which dries to a hard block.

Or did you mean that the solvent does not evaporate? You have to spread it in a thin layer for a day or two, then it should be mouldable like play dough.

If it is still too sticky/gooey then (no more solvent smell), knead more AP into it. You cannot know if it is the right consistency before the solvent is gone - at least the first time before you know how much to add altogether.
Later you can add exactly the needed amount of AP while the stuff is still softer from the solvent, which is safer than kneading AP into a then harder mass.

BTW the colour does not matter, the PIB is colourless, while the filler powder is blue, pink or whatever. The same goes for play dough, which I sometimes use, it comes in many colours which are all in the fillers, not the binder.

[FinnBell]

Holy crap, play dough?? I didnt know you can use that. I'll have to try that. And yes I think its finally worked, I added a bit more AP to the mix and it has the consistency of like cookie dough, a bit moist to the touch. Never the less it does detonate though. The briscancy doesnt seem as high though, like it doesnt have that loud crack like it does when I do straight AP but It did detonate. The power should be about the same though huh?

[nbk2000]

He didn't mean you could use play-dough as a binder! :rolleyes:

He meant that he sometimes uses play-dough, as in playing with it.

[FinnBell]

Oh I thought he meant you could extract polyisobutylene from play dough, I guess I totally misread that.

"The same goes for play dough, which I sometimes use, it comes in many colours which are all in the fillers, not the binder."

My bad.

[matjaz]

Don't worry, NBK just likes to roll his eyes over others. ;)

+++++++++++++++++++
I only have an (evil) eye for you! :p

NBK
+++++++++++++++++++

Your interpretation was not stupid at all. I think there was even a thread here on extracting the binder from play dough. I tried that myself, the problem is that the filler doesn't like to settle in the solvent so it's difficult to decant. And filter paper clogs almost immediately.

[Wes80]

I bought some of that blue puddy for posters and junk soaked some in gasoline and when I got a weird goo I took that out and I dont know if this is the stuff or not.

Going by what you have said, you have kept the crap on the bottom and poured out the stuff you want! The petrol is the solvent for the plasticiser, therefore you need to draw it off the top and evaporate it to a viscous clear sticky gell, THEN mix in the explosive.

BTW, toluene or xylene should be a better solvent to extract all the plasticisers , but of course, more expensive and harder to find.

[Oktogen]

I haven't made AP putty yet because I haven't got any nitrocellose, but I experimented with AP/potassium chlorate mix. It is slightly more sensitive and powerful than pure AP. One of my experiments was making ~30grams of 80% AP 20% potassium chlorate shaped charge. The explosive was put into a concrete block which I made simply by filling a flowerpot with cement. Then I took two 2,5 * 120 * 120 milimeters duraluminium sheets and join them together with some 6mm screws. When everything was complete I put the charge on the metal sheets, put this in a 30cm deep pit, put on this 5 3kg stones and finaly detonated it with a fuse. The result was amaizing. the sheets were shattered completely. I don't have a digital camera but in a few days I'll send you a photography of teared duraluminium made with my friend's camera.

[Hang-Man]

This is relevant to the AP Plasticizer thread how? We always like hearing about peoples experiments but next time put it in the appropriate thread.

[me234]

My own experience with APP is somewhat limited, but one thing I have noticed is that if you add some Al powder to the mix while you're still mixing the AP in, you tend to get a slightly more dense product. This hopefully contributes to upping the AP's VoDet a bit, and you get some Al powder in with the explosive, which should help the power along. Also it makes the charge feel heavier in your hand which is also nice.

One other observation, matchboxes are the perfect size for an AP Putty charge, just so damn handy!

I stick my fuse in from the side, I'm hoping that this allows more explosive to undergo det. after the burning to detonation. I don't like the idea that if APP is slow in deflagrating to det, that if I stick the fuse in from the top, it might burn down and only a small bit on the sides and below the fuse towards the bottom of the box will det. as opposed to deflagrate.
I know this is probably unjustified reasoning, but it's my semantics and I'm proud of them.

[matjaz]

There's no significant difference between room storage and cold storage. But there definitely is a trend with storage time. The ripe ones are way more brisant. The last pair of witness cans was almost torn apart. The great thing is that on this time scale AP decomposition obviously isn't a problem here.
Well, guys, it's been two years since this experiment started. You will find the setup in http://roguesci.org/theforum/showpost.php?p=60205&postcount=96. So a few days ago I had this dream. One last test cap was stored for TWO YEARS at room temperature. Bloody successfuly!

Upon inspection, the cap had no crystals or discoloration visible on the epoxy seal or on the electric wire. I then slammed it hard against a ceramic tile a couple of times, with no nasty surprises. I then setup a tealight candle witness same as described in the original post and ignited it electrically. The last tealight candle was destroyed the same (perhaps even torn a bit more) as the ones at the 95 day mark.

The conclusion: APrc gets ripe after a few weeks (probably depends on geometry/size because of solvent transport). And then stores for years.
cheers!

[Alexires]

Congratulations!

Sounds like that is exactly the final product that people are looking for. Tell me, have you dreamt of using it is as a cap? If you do so, please post your results, I would be eager to see them. Also, if it isnt too much trouble, would you be able to put those pictures in the previous post (that you refer to) somewhere that they may be accessed? It is possible that I cannot access them because of some stupid reason, but I would love to see them.

Again, congratulations

[Jacks Complete]

Nice one Matjaz! That's a great bit of research. :-)

Roughly what is "room temperature"?

[tomu]

Nice one Matjaz! That's a great bit of research. :-)

Roughly what is "room temperature"?

Hi Jack's,

Matjaz gave storage temp as 20°C in one of the attachments to his original post.

Well done Matjaz really nice graphics/pics and a very interessting experiment.

[Azido]

Along the lines of APP, has anyone noticed that there's a seemingly significant quantity of Nitrocellulose in Nail Polish? I'm just about to feed some AP to my sister's most obnoxious nail polish and see if it makes something interesting. The only thing is that the solvents in Nail polish are primarily Ethyl Acetate and Methyl Ethyl Ketone, and I'm not sure of ap's solubility.

Nice work Matjaz!

[-=HeX=-]

Azido: The nail polish has been suggested elsewhere on this forum but good thinking anyway. Use the clear nail polish for best results.

It would also be wise to Test the putty in a small amount for stability and safety before using it in the field. Can the solvents be distilled off in any way?

Also I have found, concurrent to other members results that purified PIB From Blue tack is am excellent binder cos TATP and gives a very stable and versatile product.

NoltaiR (Where are you?) did a lot of tests on TATP putty with rubber cement. Check out that thread for a lot of good data.

Maybe a methyl nitrate and nitrocellulose gelatine could be used as am energetic binder which would raise the power a lot?

[Charles Owlen Picket]

Unless you are using it right-fucking-away, plasticized TATP is a very bad idea. The concept of utilizing polybutene (base polymer of Polyisobutylene) is actually the best best due to immersion encapsulation of the energetic material. But energetic peroxides sublime quickly even when micro-encapsulated.

The base material is available in bulk. What you want is polybutene and to form up the Polyisobutylene yourself by the addition of ricinoate esters (available from Castor oil, etc). This allows you to control the plastic element and the "tackiness" as you envision your final product. This would be linear polymer of Polybutene (isobutylene) of varying average molecular weights. This straight chain paraffinic hydrocarbon varies from a soft, tacky, viscous liquid to a tough elastomeric solid depending upon how you make it! A custom plastic energetic is fantastic, but TATP is a poor & unsafe choice for base material.

[Roy Paci]

Would you suggest lead picrate as a base material?

[Charles Owlen Picket]

A primary plastique? - Frankly, I have concerns about the viability of any primary in a mold-able flexible matrix. But certainly toxicity is one element that would need to be addressed. Some of the newer "green" primaries that had been discussed in research in Los Alamos Labs would be candidates. [These are off-shoots of tetrazene and have initiating power that tetrazene does not possess.]

The basic complication, as you can imagine, is that with any plastic matrix, any sand or similar garbage will provide stimulus enough to warrant extreme caution. It's fraught with danger in my opinion.

[Swissdude]

I also think that AP plastique isn't a very safe thing.
Because it's plastique you might tend to play around with it too much and too roughly which makes it go boom and blowing off your hand/nose/face.

[The_Duke]

Its not a plastique, not even close. Try more like a dangerous hard and crumbly cake.

[ductape man]

I think that I may be able to answer the frequently asked question of how much AP one should mix with dbsp. I have been experimenting with various amounts for over a year. Tests indicate that the more AP used the greater the det. One test I performed was to make one once devices with 10% 25% and two thirds Ap amounts and noticed that any amount over the latter made the mix to crumbly.
USE
I placed these various amounts in skoal snuff canisters and allowed to dry. Each canister was placed 10 inches into the ground laying on its side and dirt placed over and tamped down. Each device was detonated in place with small AP cap. The 10% only popped and left a two inch hole.
PARAGRAPH

The 25% a six inch crater and the two thirds an 18 inch crater. It is my opinion that Ap does not generate enough heat to overcome the nitroglycerin stabilizers in the dbsp so more is needed. My future tests will be with nitrates that generate more heat in order to see if less is required to detonate a solid block of dbsp.
BREAKS