I see dead people

[Bert]

If you're an American, the internet is where you have to look these days for the news and most particularly the pictures (http://home.wi.rr.com/davef/iraq.htm) that the mainstream US press will not publish.

[aikon]

The faces of war. Thank you for that uncensored glimpse.

[SpiffyVision]

Here's this place for more uncensored footage and pictures: http://www.thenausea.com/menu.html

[tom haggen]

What was wrong with that kid's face on the bottom of the last page. It was all multi colored. Was that some type of infection?

[ST]

I just saw on the news pictures of what American MP's were doing to iraqi prisoners! theres going to be hell to pay for that, surely the MP's involved will be locked up.

Stripped them naked and made them make a human pyramid, then posed around them with their thumbs up smiling .... what the hell! they must have taken a savage beating to make them do that, wonder how much of that shit goes on.

And they wonder why there is resistance :rolleyes:

[nbk2000]

Tread carefully here...................

[jelly]

ST, I have missed a similar massive indignation in all parts of the western world when this happened in september 2001:
http://www.thenausea.com/elements/WTC/Jumper11.jpg
http://www.thenausea.com/elements/WTC/Jumper.jpg

[wrench352]

99% of the people I know were disgusted and ashamed of what happened.My views on this war have changed some in the past two weeks,but,that wont be discussed here. That having been said;see what happens when you let gays in the military?Im sorry, strip em naked, make em mastubate or do,uh,acrobatics(?),AND take pictures for later,sorry man thats gay(and yes I saw the girl there,Im sure her mothers proud).

this was a half hearted attempt at levity sorry to all that it offends

ps at least we didnt break most of the bones in their body and gang rape them

[vulture]

ST, I have missed a similar massive indignation in all parts of the western world when this happened in september 2001:

Cmon, you're kidding right? The whole western world officialy condemned the attacks, even we Europeans respected three minutes of silence, massive airtime on how atrocious it was, etc.

The Iraqi victims can cheer if they get 5 seconds of airtime.

But as wrench said, that's not the point of the discussion. The pictures ALL show dead people which shouldn't have been dead in the first place.

Wrench, I seriously hope you were drunk or something when you posted this. It's not your style I'm used to. Are you saying only gay soldiers are mutilating Iraqis??

[jelly]

The whole western world officialy condemned the attacks, even we Europeans respected three minutes of silence...
The official blabla isn't worth mentioning. I have read many letters to the editor in political magazines and talked to many people. Only a few have condemned the terror attack. Most of them could hardly hide their joy at it, especially the left, the nazis and the muslims. Do you still remember the parties which have spontaneously taken place in some European cities?

[vulture]

Do you still remember the parties which have spontaneously taken place in some European cities?

That must have been the most uninformed, ill minded propaganda bullshit I've EVER read on this forum.

There were NO parties in European cities, I happened to live in Brussels at the time and I can assure you that there were no parties. However, there were lots of people putting flowers outside the US embassy.

Either way you're confusing it with the massive protests in Europe against the war in Iraq, or you're confusing it with the supposedly cheering palestinians footage that was broadcasted on CNN. This footage turned out to be archived material later.

[tom haggen]

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=95001194 I highly doubt the palestinians were not cheering on sept. 11, as many muslim countries were. This lady witnessed it first hand. No fake news reports needed. I think its dumb to say that was "The Day That Terroists Changed The World." Since they had done some much damage prior to 9/11. But I honestly don't see any thing wrong with murdering people from the middle east. I'm sure I would enjoy pulling the trigger. But seriously though, whats up with that kids face? Is it some type of infection.

[jelly]

Vulture:

You have posted this a few weeks before the terror attack on Madrid... ~200 innocent people were killed.

Newsflash, there haven't been any terrorist attacks in Europe inspired by the same philosophy as those of 9/11. We don't have to shit our pants every day. The terrorist attacks you are talking about are very local, very scarse and not on such a huge scale..... We didn't piss of the world and it's mother, so we have no terrorist attacks, color coded chart systems and the OHS taking away our rights...
How do you think about this naive crap now?

You tend to argue idealistically and aggressively like a fundamentalist. It's time to remove your blinkers and see the world as it is... not as it should be ;)

BTW, the biggest and loudest parties in Germany had taken place in Hamburg (Schanzenviertel), Berlin (Kreuzberg) and Cologne.

[vulture]

Trying to swerve the attention away from our moot point, are we?

Your inability to correctly interpret that quote from says enough I think. You kindly forgot that spain has soldiers in Iraq. This actually proves my point, because spain pissed of the muslems by participating in this illegal war.

If you provoke people, be prepared to be punched back.

Still, spain didn't implement any repressive laws as a result, nor did the population slammed into terror frenzy mode.

Also, you ripped my quote out of it's context, because I was denying that previous terrorist attacks by the ETA, RAF, etc were muslem attacks.

You tend to argue idealistically and aggressively like a fundamentalist. It's time to remove your blinkers and see the world as it is... not as it should be

I could say the same thing of you. It's like debating what tastes better, vanilla or milk chocolate?

BTW, the biggest and loudest parties in Germany had taken place in Hamburg (Schanzenviertel), Berlin (Kreuzberg) and Cologne.

Please provide reference.

Furthermore, we're getting off topic and you're starting yet another EU vs US thread.

EDIT:

I highly doubt the palestinians were not cheering on sept. 11, as many muslim countries were. This lady witnessed it first hand.

Tom, notice the banners on the bottom of that page? They're all advertising american flags and patriot stuff....

[Flake2m]

All news is biased.
The anti-American news like Al-Jazera show pictures of US soldiers getting blown up and shot to shit.
The pro-American news like Fox show US soldiers shooting the crap out of something or jets bombing a building.

However neither side dares to show the real reality of war. People get shot, people get blown up, some people even get burned alive. The bottom line is that people die and in ways that are unimaginable and horriffic to think of.
Both sides glorify wars but real truth is that when you've been to war you really wish that sometimes they had never started in the first place.
That what these pictures show. They show a version of reality. They show a version of reality that both sides never show.

[tom haggen]

Ya your probably right vulture. That soccer mom hoe! I still say I would like to cap a rag head.

[jelly]

You kindly forgot that spain has soldiers in Iraq. This actually proves my point, because spain pissed of the muslems by participating in this illegal war.

Do you remember the planned terror attack on the Christmas market in Strasbourgh in 2000.. years before the war in Iraq... and one year before the bloody attack in NY?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2835587.stm

Why have the muslim terrorists planned this?

"... "They planned to kill defenceless people at the Christmas market," said presiding judge Karlheinz Zeiher.
Through this action, in the European city of Strasbourg, they wanted to spread fear in France and Europe.
"The accused wanted to hit the nerve centre of a free, Western, civilised society."...."

The only goal of all this muslim terror in Madrid, New York and elsewhere is very simple:
"Kill non-muslims wherever you can find them. If you survive the attack it will give you a good feeling... if you die, 72 virgins are waiting for you in the paradise".

The target isn't only the USA... it's the whole free Western world.

[matjaz]

I'm insulted by the claims that Europeans were supposedly cheering at any terrorist act. Me and all of the people I saw on the day of 9/11 were in tears and shocked. Making phone calls to our US friends asking if they were fine. I was here, I saw it.

I did not find one European of all that I have connections with that wouldn't share my opinion. And that's a very big bunch of people of different views, education levels, interests, religions. (Including all the muslims I spoke with, just for the record.)

Sick individuals cheering? I didn't see any, but cannot rule that out. The same as sick individuals in the US.

Here in Europe, we have tasted wars up close. In our own backyards. With our parents, with our babies. Meaning that we have a mature attitude towards violence and casualties. Meaning that we cannot cheer at someones pain. EOD.

[vulture]

Did you look at this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2659315.stm) article?

He said the attack was planned to harm relations between Israel and France, which he claimed had interfered in Algeria and supported a government he accused of massacring Islamists.

Interesting how France now suddenly becomes a victim of terrorism too, whereas most americans claim they're part of the muslem conspiracy against the US... :rolleyes:

EDIT: Besides, if all Europeans were cheering why should the muslems attack us? :rolleyes:

[matjaz]

I have loooked at it now, thanks. (On a side note, one of the problems is that we're not ready to such a violation of the constitutional rights and basic freedom as the latest US laws bring to the Americans. That, in turn, makes it difficult to prosecute suspects in Europe.)

"... France now suddenly becomes a victim of terrorism too, whereas most americans claim they're part of the muslem conspiracy..."
It's a cover'up. ;) Sssh!

Besides, if all Europeans were cheering why should the muslems attack us? :rolleyes:

I don't think it's worth arguing. It's difficult if you live behind a tightly controlled media curtain. I go to US every now and then as a part of my job and I can see the isolation level is really incredible in some cases.

Tom's quote shows the level we're dealing with:
But I honestly don't see any thing wrong with murdering people from the middle east. I'm sure I would enjoy pulling the trigger.
I must say I'm disappointed with him.

[jelly]

Did you look at this article?.... He said the attack was planned to harm relations between Israel and France...
Yes, this article has been written 2 month before the other (both articles published by BBC NEWS), and the findings are obsolete. The fact that the terrorists wanted to kill masses of Christians doesn't fit your world view. So you try to manipulate the reality and present an obsolete article that claims the terrorists have played the anti-israel card.

Go further in the past and you possibly find an article that claims the CIA or MOSSAD has planned the terror attack... :D

But I'll leave this political debate now. My English isn't good and I don't want to provoke possible misunderstandings with my posts.

[vulture]

The fact that the terrorists wanted to kill masses of Christians doesn't fit your world view.

Another typical example of ill-informed black/white viewing. There's not only Christians in Europe or the western world.

So you try to manipulate the reality and present an obsolete article that claims the terrorists have played the anti-israel card.

You just won't understand it. France has had small scale Algerian terrorist attacks before because of their meddling with Algerian affairs. Do I need to make a drawing? Why would one of the suspects confess such a thing otherwise?

Lol, me manipulating reality. :rolleyes: Does "forged Niger Uranium documents" mean anything to you? Or maybe 3D animations that were supposed to be "Sattelite images of mobile biolabs"?

Gimme a break.

[wrench352]

Vulture,I wasnt referring to Berts pics but the ones that ST was referring to,I think.Berts pics are pretty gruesome. I was referring to the pictures of the abused Iraqi prisoners that aired on 60 minutes II. I was pretty sober.
Something that was brought to my attention recently.The Saudis are sympathetic to the Palestinians,why dont they share the wealth as one of the richest countries on Earth? Instead of living in a huge slum they should at least be in a nice suburb.The Saudis and all the other opec arab states should put up or shut up and invest in their brothers.I see no reason why Palestine shouldnt be the gem of the middle east.On Iraq I reversed course yet again but dont feel I can really discuss it. June 30 is all I can say.I really wonder how history will look back on this.Vulture you have my email feel free to drop me a line.Also in regards to the abused prisoners dont confuse ignorance and stupity with brutality.

[vulture]

The Saudis are sympathetic to the Palestinians,why dont they share the wealth as one of the richest countries on Earth? Instead of living in a huge slum they should at least be in a nice suburb.The Saudis and all the other opec arab states should put up or shut up and invest in their brothers.

Hmm, the Saudis. That's perhaps a story with even more sides than the Palestinian/Israel conflict. There's the wealthy few that control the oil, some of them sell it to the US, some of them sell it to the US and use the money to sponsor terrorist groups, the US sponsors the house of Saud in order to prevent the muslems getting the power, etc etc. It's one big fucking quagmire! :confused:

I see no reason why Palestine shouldnt be the gem of the middle east

Maybe because every bit of their infrastructure get's bombed to shit because of it being a weapons factory?

[Skean Dhu]

It wasn't until today that I found out about this terrible action done by a few jerk-offs in the armed forces, and it pisses me off how a small group of people ruin the the good name of an entire culture(western/american culture in this case but the same goes for terrorists and the arabs).



Also the media coverage of the football player that died really pissed me off. this mans death I guarantee you was the only servicemans death that was on every news network. They made it seem like just because he had passed up a multi-million dollar football contract that his life was more important and his death was somehow more noble or worthy than the other 690 coalition service men and women.

[jelly]

...You just won't understand it. France has had small scale Algerian terrorist attacks.... Lol, me manipulating reality. Does "forged Niger Uranium documents" mean anything to you?
It makes a big difference, whether someone manipulates others (by war propaganda) or you manipulate yourself by overlooking obvious things ;)

The cause for the terror is the discrepancy between moral (religious) sense of superiority and economically and technologically inferiority opposite the Western World. From a religious point of view of a muslim (Allah is on our side) the reason of all poverty and sorrow must lie at non-muslims. This is the Western World with prosperity and decadence... an excellent projection surface for all own problems. And what are the most powerful countries in the Western World and in the Arabian region? The USA and Israel.

Believe it... if France were the most powerful western country, the terrorists would have not attacked the WTC but the Eiffel tower.

The behavior of western countries has nothing to do with the cause of the terror. It possibly determines the order, when a western country will be attacked. Appeasement is the wrong answer to the terror. It may let Christians live a little bit longer... but not very long.

Gimme a break.
ok :)

[Bert]

The behavior of western countries has nothing to do with the cause of the terror.

Are you at all familiar with middle eastern history of the last century or so?

[vulture]

From a religious point of view of a muslim (Allah is on our side) the reason of all poverty and sorrow must lie at non-muslims. This is the Western World with prosperity and decadence... an excellent projection surface for all own problems. And what are the most powerful countries in the Western World and in the Arabian region? The USA and Israel.

Notice the striking parallel with your view that the cause of war must lie with the muslems.

Like bert pointed out, the western world has done nothing but meddling with arab affairs. I guess bombing the shit out of a few muslem countries is not significant enough to speak of meddling? :rolleyes:

[nbk2000]

Eny, meany, minny, moe, who's the next member who has to go? :mad: