Helo kills - Thermal Imaging view... (Graphic)

[MightyQuinn®]

I thought I would break this before the French as I have had the video for months now. The French are about to broadcast it world wide. I will refrain from making durogatory political comments here.

It depicts a hilo taking direction from a commander and wasting a couple of radicals. I think they are using the 30mm cannon on these boys. Gives you a good look at NV accuracy.

http://50caliber.net/224Helicopter_Kills.mpeg

It is very graphic material in case you care.

[aikon]

That's an awsome video! How far are they away from their victims? It seems that the first shots missed because thy're out of range. I guess you can't beat such night vision firing devices easiliy.

[Bert]

That video was posted here a couple of months ago. Your clip is a bit higher resolution than the links provided before however.

If you like such things, look at this one. I believe they are using a 105mm for several of the shots.AC 130 gunship (http://www.thenausea.com/elements/usa/AC130_GunshipMed_a.wmv)

[nbk2000]

Yes, this is old news, and has been discussed before.

As an aside, as regards AC-130's, I found that there are 3 in orbit around the Space Shuttle during every launch, supposedly to prevent people from "straying" into the booster drop zone in the atlantic, but I'd not think that the real reason, which is more likely to be to obliterate anyone getting within Stinger range of the Shuttle.

[MightyQuinn®]

Yes, this is old news, and has been discussed before.

Ahh...of course. I should have known :D Nothing gets past you guys.

Unfortunatly I joined this forum WAY to late. I'll catch up soon.

[nbk2000]

BTW, it's not "Night Vision" they're using, as it's not amplification of ambient light, but rather "Thermal Imaging", a visualization of the infrared energy that emanates from all objects above absolute zero.

[Arkangel]

Interesting thing about this clip (which certainly has done the rounds), is that they are firing at a man that they KNOW is wounded.

From my limited understanding - that's a blatant breach of Geneva Conventions - a war crime.

It also ignores the rule that a wounded enemy is better than a dead one, as he takes up more resources and is a distraction to his comrades.

[Phaid69]

In combat you can do whatever you need to kill the enemy as long as he is in front of you.
The min. you step past him he becomes a pow and then you must treat him.

In general you are trained to kill as many as possibe and only take prisoners when needed, but that usualy follows for small unit tactics and ambushes.

The rule about wounding was effective when we had our tactics planned around a large battle agains the soviets, now we dont battle long enough for it to matter.

As for what rules the airforce uses i dont know for sure it wasnt my branch of the military.

[Guerilla]

After seeing this clip (http://homepage.mac.com/webmasterkai/kaicurry/gwbush/iraqiwar.wmv) one might think killing a wounded enemy isn't considered all that crooked there..I dont understand what made that guy so eager to boast about his heroic deed on public tv, though...

[aikon]

...I dont understand what made that guy so eager to boast about his heroic deed on public tv, though...

It's not a secret that the average soldier in the us army isn't very intelligent.
Most of them come from lower social classes with poor education.
And don't forget: In war times the most serious man transmute into reckless killers.

[MightyQuinn®]

It's not a secret that the average soldier in the us army isn't very intelligent.
Most of them come from lower social classes with poor education.


To be honest, as a veteran and a child of a veteran AND a grandson of a veteran I take great offense to your broad based, sweeping generalization of people in the military.

I'd like you to visit my company comanders from boot camp and let them know they come from a lower social class. You ass would be kicked quicker than you could say "sorry"

Show me your DD-214, and i'll return your respect to you.

[aikon]

To Mighty Quinn:

It was not my intention to offend any of the men and women who are serving (or served) in the us army. I'm aware of the fact that this army is one of the best trained armies in the world. You're right: I made a "braod based sweeping" and such senseless behavior is always wrong. After listening to the statement of the soldier in the video clip I was just angry about his unilateral point of view. I hope you accept my apology.

[Dave Angel]

My reasoning for killing the wounded enemy would be that he could still endanger the helicopter if he had a spare SAM lying around.

I dont have the clip anymore so I'm going on memory, but he was behind the truck for a while IIRC. Just in case he had access to another launcher there, it would be wise to shoot him as soon as he shows himself.

[MightyQuinn®]

To Mighty Quinn:
I hope you accept my apology.


Read and accepted. I was more making a point than being angry. We all have our talking points and opinions.

[matjaz]

...visit my company comanders from boot camp and let them know they come from a lower social class. You ass would be kicked quicker than you could say "sorry"...
Hmm. But that means something IS wrong with them, anyway. :) I mean, why would anyone be offended by such a statement?

[Bert]

It's not a secret that the average soldier in the us army isn't very intelligent.
Most of them come from lower social classes with poor education.
Having known quite a few of the post draft US regular army, not true. They fall largely into two classes:

1. Rural or small town, mostly white from anywhere's in the US. Remember brother, cousins, uncles, dad, granddad and great granddad being in WWI, WWII Korea, Vietnam. Join the military out of family tradition, patriotism and the urge to get the hell out of the farm/town they grew up in (this last may be biggest reason). Smart enough to run modern war machines, able to read technical manuals, not cannon fodder. Service LOVES them, they are what makes it work. I can not call most of these guys stupid. I will call nearly anyone who graduates from a US public school selectively ignorant however. Our school system is designed not to teach you too much (especially history!), nor give you an inconvenient tendency to question and analyze. God help our army if teenagers learn to think analytically, research comprehensively and extrapolate two steps down the road.

2. American poor and non citizens who want a green card. The people who join the army because it's their best, or maybe only shot at getting off the street, an education and a job better than running the fryer at a MacDonald's- Or getting into the US if they're from a "possession" or one of the countries we're recruiting Hessians from in return for a green card. These people are a very mixed bunch. Frankly, the fact that such people are becoming a larger and larger part of the forces on the ground worries me. I can list many quotes from the founding fathers on the importance of our army being citizen soldier types rather than poor dregs who had to join an army for food. (They're not all or even mostly "dregs" obviously- Like I said, a very mixed bunch) The risk I see here is a growing number of US soldiers whose loyalty may be to the service rather than our society at large, because they never WERE a part of mainstream US society before becoming US military. If any of you are servicemen currently or recently serving, I'd welcome your views on that.

[nbk2000]

RTPB "Kill everyone, leave no survivors (in this case) behind you"

It's the only smart thing to do, given our enemies propensity for blowing themselves up if they think they can kill one of us in the process.

Gooks were known to do this in vietnam, and we shot them dead there too. North koreans and chinese before that, and the japs before them during WW2. So this is not a "new" thing, rather quite traditional.

And I would do the same damn thing in his place. It only takes one enemy to fake injury to lure a soldier in to be blown up to ruin it for all the rest of the legit injured who have to be killed to protect our own forces from such treachery.

As for the "Green Card" army...that's a ploy by ZOG to have troops loyal only to their whims, who'll be more than ready to kill Americans who resist their demands, as the GC troops aren't born and raised in the common culture of America, so what the fuck do they care about killing some rowdy whites?

[nbk2000]

Something I found in the May 10th issue of "The Weekly Standard":

During the April 3rd raid on an al-quaida terrorist hideout in spain, 41 year old Francisco Javier Torronteras, a policeman, was killed.

Now, this kind of shit happens, so that's not the story.

The story is the following:


But just before sunrise on Monday, April 19, something happened that raised the possibility that Madrid and Europe generally are center stage in the war on terror.

Unknown intruders broke into the cemetery where the policeman Torronteras was interred. With a pick-axe, they pried open the crypt where his body lay, smashing the plaque on which memorial verses had been written by his family. They removed the coffin, wheeled it 500 meteres away on a hand truck, opened it, chopped off the left hand, doused the corpse with gasoline, and lit it on fire.


Is the actions of a civilized culture to be respected? Killing someone is one thing, but doing crazy shit like this is reason for extermination.

Any society that has no reverence for the dead, or for their fallen enemies, has no respect for the living, thus the reason why their societies are such shit-holes.

This, on top of the mutilation of the bodies of the 4 american contractors killed at fullujah (SP?), by burning/castration/amputation/and hanging upside down from an overpass, is a visible signal that this is an enemy to whom no quarter can be given.

Only brutal and naked force, in the overwhelming amounts the US military can dish out when not being hampered by the "castrati" politicians, will subdue and eventually eliminate this threat.

They made POWs do naked human pyramid! INHUMANE TREATMENT! CALL AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL!"

Boo-fucking-hoo. I'm crying in shame over this revelation. It ranks right up there with cattle prods shoved up their asses and gouging out their eyes with spoons, doesn't it? Or maybe being burned alive, like the muds have been threatening to do to their western hostages?

:rolleyes:

If that's the worst thing that's happened to them, then everyone needs to shut up about it, because I experienced worse in the prisons I was in, and I didn't have any european "Human Rights" liberals coming to my rescue.

The euros seem to have developed some fucked up belief that they can somehow placate the arabs into leaving them alone, if only they side against the US. How naive.

Bury your head in the sand as America stands alone, for all essential purposes, against the enemies of the west, and then act surprised when your turn comes.

Arkangel...HED!

Vulture...HED!

Just like pus-oozing sores, these sources of anti-american infection are now purged and lanced, relieving us of their vile poisons.

Anyone standing against the common interests of western civilization in favor of the islamic anarchists who wish all the world to be reduced to the level of "goat-herder" will find no safe harbor here.

So let it be written, so let it be done.

May the rest of you learn from their example. ;)

[matjaz]

I too would say that Europe is deep in shit with extremists. The Muslim refugees from Bosnia once shot with a .45 into our apartment because they thought it was fun. The police I called didn't even care to visit them because of their bloody human rights and stuff. Even though I, as a citizen, their host in a way, almost got killed.

Also, right now, there's a lot of talk about an oversized Islamic center to be built for the Muslim minority in our capital, bigger than all native (Christian) churches here combined. Anyone trying to oppose its size or location is stamped as intolerant immediately. So I can see your point.

Questioning, or commenting on, who is banned and why, is a quick way to join them.

NBK

As for the benigness of the prison abuses, let's wait a couple more days, shall we.

[nbk2000]

There's no arguing about it.

This site is, first and foremost, pro-American, which is not the same as being pro-America, the former refering to the individuals, the latter to the ZOG-corrupted government.

The one good thing about having jews in charge of the government is that they have no love for the ragheads. The irony in that...:rolleyes:


"The strong man stands alone" Adolf Hitler


...and so we do, since the majority of euros are craven cowards willing to bend over and let themselves be fucked by the muslims, all for the promise of a little grease.

[zaibatsu]

...and so we do, since the majority of euros are craven cowards willing to bend over and let themselves be fucked by the muslims, all for the promise of a little grease.

Some statistics to prove your point here wouldn't go amiss, as you are blanketing an extremely large area that has a bigger economy than the US with your statement, perhaps not something to be done lightly.

[Jacks Complete]

It depicts a hilo taking direction from a commander and wasting a couple of radicals. I think they are using the 30mm cannon on these boys. Gives you a good look at NV accuracy.
I have to ask how you can tell they are radicals... All I could make out was a truck and a lorry, and three un-armed people at some extreme range.

I found it very interesting to listen to the audio. There was the one guy pulling the trigger, who didn't really seem to want to shoot the guys, but the other guy, giving the orders, he seemed to be lovin' it - "Forget the truck, shoot the wounded guy!" Real brave.

[MightyQuinn®]

I have to ask how you can tell they are radicals...

I guess because I am a typical "amurcan" (pronounced a-mur-kin with a southern drawl) and like to think our Military is doing as we pay them to do: Kill people and break things. Perhaps it was merely a poor choice of words...

I could be mistaken... On both.


I found it very interesting to listen to the audio. There was the one guy pulling the trigger, who didn't really seem to want to shoot the guys, but the other guy, giving the orders, he seemed to be lovin' it - "Forget the truck, shoot the wounded guy!" Real brave.

War is hell... Has been, always will be. It ain't pretty, it aint calm. People get shot, people die. Innocent and guilty alike. While I am sure that those fine brave men and women over there try to avoid killing if they can, I am sure fucking glad that when it comes right down to it, they take the shot.

I am able to proffer my opinion on this subject because of those fine men and their predecessors.

Have you thanked a Vet today?

[tiac03]

They were burrying rifles. The thing the guy is pulling out from under the tractor when his buddy gets splattered by the 30mm is the cloth the thing was wrapped in.

(there is a full length movie out there that shows it. They watched them Pull up to the area, run over, ditch the weapon (rifle or RPG), and wait for the tractor to burry it. The Apache crew then proceeds to ask if they have the go ahead to shoot, Command says yes.)

I'm sure you can find the full vid out there. (I don't remember where I saw it or I'd post the link.)

[Jacks Complete]

Ok, watching an edited down version like that made them look really bad.

Still, if they were burying the rifles, then that means they were unarmed. Shooting them to death is a bit extreme at that point. Surely arrest and/or capture, plus confiscation of the weapons would be more par for the course. And what if they were crushing the guns under the wheels of the truck, so they were unarmed?

Anyway, taking it at face value, that video makes no heroes. Perhaps the full version will shed some light. I shall seek it another day, as it is 1:20 am here.

My other question has to be, why do the French have this video? If it was an Apache?

[FinnBell]

In my opinion, if it was the other way around, I seriously doubt that these people would have had any mercy on American soldiers armed or not. The fact is that they are out to kill, and obviously the Americans are too. True, they arent heroes, they are just doing their job. They just happen to be really good at what they do.

[tiac03]

They burry the rifles then come back to get it when the american soldiers have stopped looking for people with rifles/rockets. Then they ambush supply convoys, as they are doing now. Frankly I think that the two in the apache did a good thing... as one of their AC-130's had written on it before the media made a fucking stink about it "Kill 'em all and let god sort 'em out".

(Now ask yourselves what 3 people were doing in BFN at night with a tractor "plowing fields".... I don't know about you but if I was around there I wouldn't be doing shit like that at night... unless i had something to hide and was too stupid to realize that no matter what you do the US sees you.)

- and for those saying that the people wern't worried about the chopper... you know how far they were, you can't hear an apache normally untill it pretty much over your head... this chopper was probably a good 1-2 km out I assume



Now all they have to do is when they spot crowds cheering and dragging charred boddies through the streets, take out the GE mini's and the napalm and have a true American style BBQ.

Teach the bastards not to Fuck with the US. The only thing they know is fear... teach them to fear the US therefore giving respect.

[FinnBell]

Kick ass man, I couldnt have said it better myself. Kickass.

[nbk2000]

The 30mm chain gun on the apache has a range of about 3km, while being able to be heard at a hover in a silent area only within about 800 meters, so they can massive outrange anyone trying to detect their presence by simple hearing.

I've seen the full video, which is like 7 minutes long, and you can hear the whole situation, as the people in the truck had already used the weapon (never specified what it was) in an attack and were in the process of ditching it when the helo's caught their asses and made them die for their error.

Again, if abdula farmer is helping the terr's, then farmer dies too. And, remember, these are not americans, nor are they in america, thus the american legal process of arrest/trial does NOT apply to them.

Another thing is that the Geneva Conventions does NOT apply to partisans, guerrillas, fifth-columnists, sabotuers, spies, or civilian combatants...ONLY to the uniformed armed forces of recognized nation states in declared conflicts. Guerrillas and partisans can be summarily executed.

All the stuff I've read about the iraqi prison "torture" has failed to mention that a single one of the "victims" was an iraqi soldier. They were all guerillas, thus not accorded the protection of the Geneva convention, which iraqi soldiers HAVE been getting.


...the majority of euros...


Is not the same as ALL euros. The brits have been upstanding chaps. The spainards (and many others), on the other hand, are pole dancing on abdulas (goat-herder for "Bubba") lap. :p

[tiac03]

Definately the Spanish are pulling off a stupid move in pulling out, now the terrorists will think that if they try harder to blow up Americans America too will leave (also any other country still helping). You never give into terrorists, if you do considered yourself raped by the camel jockeys.

Hey anyone see the Vid where the fucking towel heads decapitate the american because of the prison pics? Pretty fucked up shit, they use a knife and cut through as if they were cutting up meat.

This goes to show 2 things.

1. The media should not show such things. (even though its awesome how they humiliated those fuckheads in the jail)
2. If you are doing something like this never take pictures.



I say the US should just go through the cities and level them (especially falluja (sp.?). Carpet bomb, artillery, napalm strikes. Tear them a new asshole. Then show that on the news. Damn if I was incharge over there genocide would not fully describe what i'd do. I'd hang people from light poles, every light pole. If i run out of poles then put up more poles.... total extermination....hey also a brighter Iraq...

Fuck, I Hate people.

[matjaz]

Another thing is that the Geneva Conventions does NOT apply to partisans, guerrillas, fifth-columnists, sabotuers, spies, or civilian combatants...ONLY to the uniformed armed forces of recognized nation states in declared conflicts. Guerrillas and partisans can be summarily executed.

Actually, The Conventions apply to:
... (2) Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions: (a) that of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates; (b) that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance; (c) that of carrying arms openly; (d) that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war. (3) ...

So, under (2), we have
a) debatable for any militia (also, party uncheckable in thermal)
b) uncheckable in thermal, they could as well have been US troops
c) all of those men could have had pistols and grenades on them openly
d) This is the weak one.

You can hang on to this (d) thing, so would I. But then again, I think the prison scandal excludes Americans just the same, no? :)

EDIT: To flake2m: you missed my point re item b).

[Flake2m]

If they has been US troop would they have opened fire on an Apache?
I'd think not.

As for the Iraqi Prisoners; I simply don't give a shit about them. After what they did to US and British prisoners during Desert storm they deserve it.

[Child-of-Bodom]

If they has been US troop would they have opened fire on an Apache?
I'd think not.

As for the Iraqi Prisoners; I simply don't give a shit about them. After what they did to US and British prisoners during Desert storm they deserve it.

So you just care of 'blank' humans. human lives from a different country, not west, don't count...nice...

Have some respect for EVERY human being. I am as sad about 1 dead american as for one dead Iraki!!
The way that the 'free' US liberates a country, can be in some ways good, but then they have to give the right example!!! Don't be as horrible as Saddam Hussein himself...The US came their to bring peace, but the civilians are still suffering, if peace want to be obtained, a good base is nesesairy, with the respect of human rights!!