zaibatsu
October 13th, 2002, 09:54 AM
The Real
Frequent Poster
Posts: 136
From: Columbus, OH
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 07, 2001 05:02 AM
Ok, I tried a quick batch using the 50%HCl. After 3hrs I checked the jar. Observations: cloudy liquid with a suspension of very fine crystals. With agitation the solution became more cloudy and the crystals dissappeared. I'm assuming with agitation the crystals redissolved into the unreacted acetone. I used 5mL of the acid, rather than 3, the acid is also higher in concentration than what I've used before, does this explain the faster reaction?
I just checked the jar again and the crystals were present. Been about an hour since it went back in. I didn't agitate the jar however, but it looks the same, maybe more crystals. Are things "looking ok"?
And a question. Is AP putty made with sp fuse sensitive? Would you say it is more or less sensitive than AP itself?
zaibatsu
Frequent Poster
Posts: 403
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 07, 2001 05:09 AM
I'm not an expert on this, but...
Ap putty IS fuse sensitive, and its also less sensitive than straight AP, so is safer to keep. Plus its more powerful.
The Real
Frequent Poster
Posts: 136
From: Columbus, OH
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 07, 2001 10:52 AM
Thanks for that info.
This batch worked overnight, the yield is gonna be small, but I'm sure the rxn is not complete. I filtered what was there and put the liquid back into the fridge, I also added more acid last night, eyballed about 30mL. My first test: held a match to a small pile (maybe 1g). fffft!, no visible burning, sweet.
I noticed some crystals formed on the glass above the liquid. I'm wondering a way to test for the dimer.
CragHack
Frequent Poster
Posts: 606
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 07, 2001 12:10 PM
yes the more acid you use the faster the reaction is going to be. but in my opinion if the reaction is completed under 3 days, no more acid is needed. (just more money you will have to spend in the long run) i have also seen crystals appear on the sides of the jar, above the liqued, i do not know why this happens, akll i can think of is the fumes of the 3 mix above the liqued and form AP, or the AP is dissolved in the acetone and when the acetone evaporates in the jar the AP is deposited on the sides of the jar.
what concentration H2O2 did you use?
------------------
...Æ
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 07, 2001 03:13 PM
Or the liquid sloshed up there when you aggitated it, leaving crystals behind. AP puty is more powerful due to its higher density.
The Real
Frequent Poster
Posts: 136
From: Columbus, OH
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 07, 2001 05:02 PM
3% hydroge peroxide.
So far I've filtered (I'd guess) 5grams. Played with in small amounts, but no detonations yet. Tomorrow I'll smack some between quarters, so far I've just burnt it. I noticed the crystals on the side before I agitated the jar, but more afterwards. I'm sure the agitation put some up there.
When this stuff was still a little wet it would flare up when touched off by a match. Dry it just goes with no flame and I can't see any smoke, just "ffft" gone. One test I did get a little "poof" The jar is still producing crystals too. Speaking of crystals, I'm getting large crystals, probably equal amounts on top and bottom, a few suspended. After washing and drying I made a "paste" using acetone and kind of ground the crystals and spread them out in a dish. After drying I used a tongue depressor to scrape the dish, they are very fine now, smaller than table salt, larger than powdered sugar.
About how much is used to fill a matchbox? My first blast using this will be a cap to detonate some sp. I'm sure it will make a better primary than chlorate based flash powder, it seems to burn much faster.
I got another jar going. I was running low on HCl, so added some phosphoric to the batch. It's producing too, but not as fast.
The Real
Frequent Poster
Posts: 136
From: Columbus, OH
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 07, 2001 07:46 PM
Whoa in the jar with a mix of hydrochloric and phosphoric acids, I am getting a fast yeild. I am filtering through 140mm, I forgot the size, but I believe it's 2 mircron. It filters horribly slow, by the time I'm done filtering a quart of solution more crystals are present.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 07, 2001 07:55 PM
Most people filter through a piece of old T-shirt - much faster!
SafetyLast
Frequent Poster
Posts: 232
From: the cretaceous period
Registered: OCT 2000
posted January 07, 2001 09:21 PM
I put a piece of an old T Shirt in a funnel and then put a coffee filter in that,
my reason for doing so is this:
I used just a piece of a T Shirt first time I made AP (about 8 months ago) and I noticed that the piece of t-shirt was soaked and it took 20 hours to become dry enough to remove the crystals a week later I used a coffee filter and I poured too fast causing a small rip (about 4mm) in the bottom of the filter so I used both at the same time and the crystals were easier to remove (using an index card) I usually put a small pile on a piece of construction paper and let it sit on a shelf for 6-8 hours to dry doing this it is possible to remove up to 98% of the crystals from the filter
The Real
Frequent Poster
Posts: 136
From: Columbus, OH
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 08, 2001 12:16 AM
Did the t-shirt, much faster, but some of the crystal I think slipped through. I used a mason jar ring to hold a piece of shirt over the jar, I also poked my finger in the center to give it a little cone shape. Thanks for the tip.
I'm like a kid with a new toy with this stuff. I got some putty drying I maded with sp, but I think it'll be a weak. I'll see tomorrow.
Crux
Frequent Poster
Posts: 71
From: australia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 08, 2001 01:19 AM
when i filter i just a piece of old boxer shorts but over a jar and held in place with a rubber band this works just fine and it's fast too
Edd
Frequent Poster
Posts: 66
From: england
Registered: NOV 2000
posted January 08, 2001 09:19 AM
something just doesn't seem right with using old pants.....
PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1466
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 08, 2001 04:39 PM
gives the ap sort of a brownish color
The Real
Frequent Poster
Posts: 136
From: Columbus, OH
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 08, 2001 05:52 PM
How long will a batch continue to produce? I managed to get all crystals out last night. This morning my yield was about equal to what I got last night, but I didn't filter. It's now 6pm (just got home form work) opened the fridge and holy Jesus! I've got about 10lbs! Just kidding, probably enough to fill a 35mm film container 1/2 full.
PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1466
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 08, 2001 06:02 PM
I have found that sometimes my ap liquid will make a ton of the stuff overnught and then the next day I will filter it, then in a half day a ton of crystals will have made almost instintaniously, maybee it is cause the acetone cant hold any more ap
Frequent Poster
Posts: 136
From: Columbus, OH
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 07, 2001 05:02 AM
Ok, I tried a quick batch using the 50%HCl. After 3hrs I checked the jar. Observations: cloudy liquid with a suspension of very fine crystals. With agitation the solution became more cloudy and the crystals dissappeared. I'm assuming with agitation the crystals redissolved into the unreacted acetone. I used 5mL of the acid, rather than 3, the acid is also higher in concentration than what I've used before, does this explain the faster reaction?
I just checked the jar again and the crystals were present. Been about an hour since it went back in. I didn't agitate the jar however, but it looks the same, maybe more crystals. Are things "looking ok"?
And a question. Is AP putty made with sp fuse sensitive? Would you say it is more or less sensitive than AP itself?
zaibatsu
Frequent Poster
Posts: 403
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 07, 2001 05:09 AM
I'm not an expert on this, but...
Ap putty IS fuse sensitive, and its also less sensitive than straight AP, so is safer to keep. Plus its more powerful.
The Real
Frequent Poster
Posts: 136
From: Columbus, OH
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 07, 2001 10:52 AM
Thanks for that info.
This batch worked overnight, the yield is gonna be small, but I'm sure the rxn is not complete. I filtered what was there and put the liquid back into the fridge, I also added more acid last night, eyballed about 30mL. My first test: held a match to a small pile (maybe 1g). fffft!, no visible burning, sweet.
I noticed some crystals formed on the glass above the liquid. I'm wondering a way to test for the dimer.
CragHack
Frequent Poster
Posts: 606
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 07, 2001 12:10 PM
yes the more acid you use the faster the reaction is going to be. but in my opinion if the reaction is completed under 3 days, no more acid is needed. (just more money you will have to spend in the long run) i have also seen crystals appear on the sides of the jar, above the liqued, i do not know why this happens, akll i can think of is the fumes of the 3 mix above the liqued and form AP, or the AP is dissolved in the acetone and when the acetone evaporates in the jar the AP is deposited on the sides of the jar.
what concentration H2O2 did you use?
------------------
...Æ
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 07, 2001 03:13 PM
Or the liquid sloshed up there when you aggitated it, leaving crystals behind. AP puty is more powerful due to its higher density.
The Real
Frequent Poster
Posts: 136
From: Columbus, OH
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 07, 2001 05:02 PM
3% hydroge peroxide.
So far I've filtered (I'd guess) 5grams. Played with in small amounts, but no detonations yet. Tomorrow I'll smack some between quarters, so far I've just burnt it. I noticed the crystals on the side before I agitated the jar, but more afterwards. I'm sure the agitation put some up there.
When this stuff was still a little wet it would flare up when touched off by a match. Dry it just goes with no flame and I can't see any smoke, just "ffft" gone. One test I did get a little "poof" The jar is still producing crystals too. Speaking of crystals, I'm getting large crystals, probably equal amounts on top and bottom, a few suspended. After washing and drying I made a "paste" using acetone and kind of ground the crystals and spread them out in a dish. After drying I used a tongue depressor to scrape the dish, they are very fine now, smaller than table salt, larger than powdered sugar.
About how much is used to fill a matchbox? My first blast using this will be a cap to detonate some sp. I'm sure it will make a better primary than chlorate based flash powder, it seems to burn much faster.
I got another jar going. I was running low on HCl, so added some phosphoric to the batch. It's producing too, but not as fast.
The Real
Frequent Poster
Posts: 136
From: Columbus, OH
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 07, 2001 07:46 PM
Whoa in the jar with a mix of hydrochloric and phosphoric acids, I am getting a fast yeild. I am filtering through 140mm, I forgot the size, but I believe it's 2 mircron. It filters horribly slow, by the time I'm done filtering a quart of solution more crystals are present.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 07, 2001 07:55 PM
Most people filter through a piece of old T-shirt - much faster!
SafetyLast
Frequent Poster
Posts: 232
From: the cretaceous period
Registered: OCT 2000
posted January 07, 2001 09:21 PM
I put a piece of an old T Shirt in a funnel and then put a coffee filter in that,
my reason for doing so is this:
I used just a piece of a T Shirt first time I made AP (about 8 months ago) and I noticed that the piece of t-shirt was soaked and it took 20 hours to become dry enough to remove the crystals a week later I used a coffee filter and I poured too fast causing a small rip (about 4mm) in the bottom of the filter so I used both at the same time and the crystals were easier to remove (using an index card) I usually put a small pile on a piece of construction paper and let it sit on a shelf for 6-8 hours to dry doing this it is possible to remove up to 98% of the crystals from the filter
The Real
Frequent Poster
Posts: 136
From: Columbus, OH
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 08, 2001 12:16 AM
Did the t-shirt, much faster, but some of the crystal I think slipped through. I used a mason jar ring to hold a piece of shirt over the jar, I also poked my finger in the center to give it a little cone shape. Thanks for the tip.
I'm like a kid with a new toy with this stuff. I got some putty drying I maded with sp, but I think it'll be a weak. I'll see tomorrow.
Crux
Frequent Poster
Posts: 71
From: australia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 08, 2001 01:19 AM
when i filter i just a piece of old boxer shorts but over a jar and held in place with a rubber band this works just fine and it's fast too
Edd
Frequent Poster
Posts: 66
From: england
Registered: NOV 2000
posted January 08, 2001 09:19 AM
something just doesn't seem right with using old pants.....
PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1466
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 08, 2001 04:39 PM
gives the ap sort of a brownish color
The Real
Frequent Poster
Posts: 136
From: Columbus, OH
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 08, 2001 05:52 PM
How long will a batch continue to produce? I managed to get all crystals out last night. This morning my yield was about equal to what I got last night, but I didn't filter. It's now 6pm (just got home form work) opened the fridge and holy Jesus! I've got about 10lbs! Just kidding, probably enough to fill a 35mm film container 1/2 full.
PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1466
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 08, 2001 06:02 PM
I have found that sometimes my ap liquid will make a ton of the stuff overnught and then the next day I will filter it, then in a half day a ton of crystals will have made almost instintaniously, maybee it is cause the acetone cant hold any more ap