Chinese Alchemy ???

[warmage]

I'm looking for some information.....normal web searches,ect have proved fruitless, so in desperation i'm trying this.

From many long hours of reading posts on hordes of chemical forums i have come to the conclusion that;
i guess that about 30% of real (degreed) chemists harbor some knowledge and belief in, Real Alchemy.
This belief is understandably not readly discussed openly.....fear of public ridicule and loss of scientific reputation
make this a subject only whispered about among real chemists.

However: in this forum....filled with chemical adventurers....i may find someone, hidden by the anonymity of the web
and web handles....more willing to talk.

SO...have any of you adventurous souls ever heard of a Chinese/Taoist alchemic working known as;
The Circulation of the Immortals.
The closest page i have found is: http://www.universal-tao.com/article/immortals.html.

The information contained here seems......well, rather obscure to my occidental mind.
Can any of you shed any light on this, Circulation of the Immortals.

Thank You

[Corona]

Us Asian folk in general… and Chinese folk in particular… often come up with bull-shit to confuse the white man. They have been doing it since Marco Polo.

Don’t worry about it.

[megalomania]

Alchemy? I find it hard to believe that any rational scientist with a university education would harbor such foolish notions in the 21st century. That's as bad as the physicists overunity devices.

[Sarevok]

(...) i guess that about 30% of real (degreed) chemists harbor some knowledge and belief in, Real Alchemy. :mad: (...) Chinese/Taoist :mad: (...)

Since the beginning of the "age of reason", when, thanks to science, we realized that god may not exist, that things can be explained scientifically, that races are not equal*, that woemen are not as capable as men*, that the Earth is not flat and that humanity is not the center of the universe, only an ignorant fucker would believe in pseudo-scientific bullshit such as REAL ALCHEMY AND THE CIRCULATION OF THE IMMORTALS. Is there an ignorant fucker around here?

Next time you hear something about anything chinese-taoist, ignore it. White science built the world we live in, while chink alchemy did nothing. Ok, perhaps they made some BP :), but thats all.

* Now you're going to say that this has nothing to do with science? Charles Darwin proved me right.

[VX]

If by alchemy you mean makeing new elements from more common, readily avalible elements, then yes, it does exist. And their is no secret of it. Physicists can make new nuclei, simply by firing smaler nuclei, at larger ones in a particle accelerator. Every now and again the two will stick together and give you a new isotope. This process can be used to make many of the trans uranium elements, and can even be used to make gold.
Another similar process is to irradiate a nuclei with neutrons, the nucli absorbs neutrons, and decays by negatron emision, to form the element with one proton number greater, i.e. the next element. (This is the way in which Plutionium is produced, from uranium, via neptunium inside a nuclear reactor)

However, this proces is not easy and the number of nuclei formed is tiny. It is impractical to go about making readily avalible elements this way. Often the only way to detect when a new nuclei was formed is to detect the specific energie radiation emited when it decays.

[mongo blongo]

The Chinese did discover BP by accident in some ridiculous notion to try and make gold IIRC. It was the westerners however that showed them the potential of BP and how to use it. I think alchemy was a backward way of thinking and best left to backward people. I highly doubt that there are many scientists which still believe in this crap. :rolleyes:

[Bert]

The Chinese did discover BP by accident in some ridiculous notion to try and make gold IIRC.

Nope. European alchemists were primarily after transmutation (Lead to Gold, etc.) Chinese alchemists were after imortality.

Since (and possibly before) modern chemistry and physics, the "base metal to Gold" endeavor has been more of a metaphor than a litteral goal of transmuting physical elements in my understanding. Don't ask me what the Chinese guys are up to these days-

And don't waste too much of your time on earth kicking the crap out of outmoded belief systems. The ones you hold now will be displaced by newer, more useful ones in their due time. The old ones served well enough in their day, and you've got them to thank for your powder and basic chemistry techniques... Alchemy led to chemistry as surely as astrology led to the Hubbel telescope. It's easy to laugh at grandpa, but your granchildren will be laughing at you too!

[FUTI]

well I do not believe in alchemy...not in a simple way people often do, but I try to keep my mind open so that I do not miss something as it can be dangerous. Recently I read a story about some plant kava-kava and its active substance that has been used for centuries...But a European companies wanted to made new (I guess stronger) extract. Knowing the active substace (kava lactone it's actualy a pyrone of some kind) they optimised its extration (classical Western-European kind of extraction more or less 70% ethanol), but it turned out (after several intoxication and at least one death) that detoxifying priciple (glutathion) is left out of this type of exract. That happens sometimes when you combine two schools of "chemistry". Man should always keep his mind open and experiments that other people used aren't false only because they didn't used same terminology and logic behind science we know...they didn't have other sources and information to build it. Think of it this way...black powder is product from period we today call "alchemic"...does it mean it won't explode somehow today? Register info, try to repeat, get data, try to explain, write an report!

[FUTI]

The Chinese did discover BP by accident in some ridiculous notion to try and make gold IIRC. It was the westerners however that showed them the potential of BP and how to use it. I think alchemy was a backward way of thinking and best left to backward people. I highly doubt that there are many scientists which still believe in this crap. :rolleyes:

I agree that in those days lot of discovery was mixure of good luck and lot of hard work...but it is even today - only the ratio is changed for the hard work. I don't believe in craps but China first use BR in warefare (rockets and bombs) if you were suggesting to this. West was first in use of cannons. Today both approach are almost equally used. I believe that China never go for the guns and cannons for purely practical reason...that country didn't have sufficient sources of iron ore for cannon and rifle production.

[Psychlonic]

Bert, from what I know, the Chinese were also after gold because they sought immortality. I think they believed that the consumption of gold would prolong the human body, simular to the belief of the ancient Egyptians.
Anyways, I see alchemy as nothing more than the precursor to modern chemistry. They used to believe in silly things such as all metals being made from mercury and sulfur, which we obviously know today is not true. While we laugh at alchemy, it is important to remember that it laid the groundwork for most topics of discussion on this forum today. Alchemy produced a lot of things, albeit for the wrong reasons. So while it's important that we be thankful for alchemists of old, there's no sense in going back to an inferior system when we have modern knowledge of the elements.