Fun snaps/ throwdowns

[Jacks Complete]

Hi all.

I searched, but found nothing on "Fun snaps" or "throwdowns". These are little tissue paper wrapped bits of friction and heat sensitive explosive, which you can leave on the floor, and they go "snap" loudly when trodden on. They can also be thrown down, hence I searched for that too.

It is trivial to take a load of them out of the wrapper and increase the "charge". At school I once folded some steel pop can into a cunningly spring-loaded triangular design, such that a slight touch caused it to pop down, and filled it with about a dozen snap fillings. A fool played with it, getting a face full of the gritty bits after they went bang. :cool:

I have about half a bag of them, they come in a plastic bag full of sawdust, in a little box. There is no info about what they are made from, so I was wondering if anyone had any ideas.

I can post a picture if wanted, but they just look like little (5 to 10mm) bits of twisted up tissue paper full of a clear crystal. Looks black after exploding.

[Dave Angel]

I believe I've read somewhere before that it's a silver compound, possibly silver fulminate but don't hold me to that. I think there's a lot of grit in them to provide the friction necessary to ensure it goes off, and the explosive compound can be washed out of them and used as a primary.

[nbk2000]

This has been discussed before.

It's silver fulminate, and there's only about a grain or so in each snap (7000 grains/pound), but it can be washed off using a solvent and concentrated down to recover the fulminate.

WARNING!

Silver fulminate is EXTREMELY SENSITIVE! It's on par with, if not more so than, ammonium iodide, which will explode by the touch of a feather.

If you extract a large amount of it, expect it to spontaneously explode upon drying from the weight of the crystals pressing upon each other.

[Jacks Complete]

This has been discussed before.

It's silver fulminate, and there's only about a grain or so in each snap (7000 grains/pound), but it can be washed off using a solvent and concentrated down to recover the fulminate.

Thanks, NBK, once you told me it was silver fulminate, I found this thread http://roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?t=3210 which asked the same question, but with different names.

There are no extraction details, & I didn't see much about silver fulminate when searching, though. Any solvent you would recommend? Or is it just not worth it?

[K9]

NBK I think you mean nitrogen tri-iodide there. As far as the snap pops (that's the brand of ones I have), I've seen a few sites from places that make them or sell them listing the explosive used as silver fulminate so I'm fairly confident to say that's what it is. As far as extracting it, well I know someone who had an accident doing that, but then again he wasn't using the best methods. I don't know all the details, but he is ok. In my opinion it would probably be easier just to make it, but I don't really see a point in it.

[Dave Angel]

Just having a quick look at mega's chem. lab site, silver fulminate is precipitated from ethanol by water when it is made so a wash with ethanol is probably in order to separate it from the grit.

After doing a bit more reading, personally I'd say it isn't really worth it except as a novelty demonstration-type explosive like nitrogen tri-iodide. So much for the possibility of using it as a primary!

[GreenCoat]

In Tenney L. Davis' book 'The Chemistry and Powder of Explosives', they use the same method as for mercury fulminate to make silver fulminate ie. dissolve the metal in nitric acid, add 90% ethanol, etc. Like the mercury salt, silver fulminate will dissolve with decomposition in concentrated acids. You can dissolve it in 10-30% ammonia solution and reprecipitate with acetic acid, but if you want to make it in a reasonable quantity (? couple of grams), you're far better off using the mercury fulminate method. It is way too sensitive to use other than as a novelty item. I would never load it into an aluminum or even plastic tube.

[Boomer]

It is easy to “extract” with water, though it is no real extraction, but a mechanical separation. You open up a few packs (200-300) into a glass of water. Then you swirl it really fast, and decant the water off after. Repeat twice with the same water. Filter it out, but store it wet and dark.

(I posted this method in the nitro-starch thread, a search for ‘snaps’ should have shown it: http://roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?t=226&highlight=snaps+fulminate.)

BTW the snaps contain MUCH less than a grain, I estimate 1/15th to 1/20th grain (3mg). Several packs give you less than one gram of product, instead of 200 grains = 12 grams.

But even this is worth it, for it is so much better an initiator than MF (up to 14 times dependant on the base charge). I made super reliable MHN caps with 1/25th gram of a 1:1 mix of MHN + SF around the bridge wire. This means 30 caps from 4 packs of snaps, or 7 snaps per cap. Not bad! :D

Only drawback is they store only two month, maybe the slightly unstable MHN decomposed the SF (the base charge still worked). What do you think, would a stabilizer like diphenylamine improve this?

[tom haggen]

Has anyone every thought to make a NC putty & silver fulminate mixture to make this primary more manageable and less likely to detonate from its own weight?

[Bert]

Has anyone every thought to make a NC putty & silver fulminate mixture to make this primary more manageable and less likely to detonate from its own weight?

Have you ever tried to HANDLE dry Silver fulminate?! The manipulation nescessary to work up a putty in any useable quantity would scare the shit out of me. There's a very good reason this material was never used for detonators commercialy. Boomer's method is an interesting "field expedient", but I'd consider use of SF a definite last resort.

[tom haggen]

If you had silver fulminate in solution with acetone, and then tried to form the putty would that work?

[Bert]

If you had silver fulminate in solution with acetone
Silver fulminate isn't soluble in acetone. It should be soluble in strong ammonia, but NC isn't-

[tom haggen]

I guess silver fulminate is an animal that can't be tamed.

[tom haggen]

What if you had a solution of Et20 and NH3, would silver fulminate dissolve in this solution? If so, you should have no problem dissolving the nitrocellulose since its non polar like Et20. If this is possible I would still worry about spontaneous detonation like what happened when one of the members made a composition of gun cotton and HTMD.

[Corona]

There is a mention of "impact smoke bombs" on page 4 of the "magician's arsenal: proffesional tricks of the trade" by Lee Scott. Its on the FTP somewhere.

[tom haggen]

That’s not quite the answer I was looking for but what the hell. Anyways, I've decided to try experimenting with silver acetylide instead. Maybe save a finger or two ;).

[tom haggen]

That’s not quite the answer I was looking for but what the hell. Anyways, I've decided to try experimenting with silver acetylide instead. Maybe save a finger or two ;).

[tom haggen]

That’s not quite the answer I was looking for but what the hell. Anyways, I've decided to try experimenting with silver acetylide instead. Maybe save a finger or two ;).

[skunks]

Dear Sirs. I have made some of these bang snaps. I hope they are kind of like the things your explaining. I learned how to make them from the guy that owns this video,so all credits to him. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=tJX0DsD4MeQ). The video is very cool so make sure you check it out. I use chlorate flash. 50 KClO3, 40 Al and 10 S. The snaps are just a little square of wax paper with a few pebbles inside and the comp poured over. The square was then simply twisted shut. I cannot emphasize enough how sensitive and dangerous it is. Only make 1 gram batches at a time. I suggest never doing larger than .2 gram snaps. Also never store the flash. This is my first post here. I hope my post is ok. Thanks A lot

[Yafmot]

I was always under the impression that "snaps" used Armstrong's Mixture (KClO3, Sulfur, Red Phosphorus and Calcium Carbonate). I don't mess with Armstrong's very much. Come to think of it, I don't spend much time with Fulminates, either.

There's a reason why the snaps, and for that matter a lot of other pyro stuff, is manufactured by 35 Cent a day, semi-skilled or, in some cases, prison labor. Life is cheap in Asia, and nowhere more so than when making a buck is involved.

The mix you're using is a step in the right direction, safety-wise, but there are also some variations you may want to try, like using KClO4 instead of -03. Also, if toxicity isn't an issue, Sb2S3 works pretty well with Perchlorate, and the more sulfur you use (up to a point), the less of the toxic stuff you'll need.

Ultimately, impact-sensitive comps are lots of fun, but when youre mixing a batch, fun should be the last thing on your mind. I used to purloin railway torpedos from any caboose I happened to spy, but a locomotive driver I know said they all were recalled after 9-11. The stuff we did with those should have either landed us in prison, or spread us all over the County.

In the words of the late, great Gus Limbach, "Don't do nothin' stupid."

[Bert]

The small snaps still available in the US use Silver fulminate. The torpedoes of old used anything the manufacturer dared or cared to use- Armstrong's mix, red explosive (chlorate and Arsenic sulfide) , chlorate and antimony sulfide...

[megalomania]

I do believe Bert is correct, I remember reading all modern bang snaps exclusively use silver fulminate. If you have ever examined one you will observe they consist entirely of white cubic crystals, similar to salt, packed in saw dust or paper bits.