Re-crystilized?

[Rat Bastard]

I had made an ap filled cardboard tube (it was like a big firecracker) that had been about 5 days old. When I lit it the fuze burned out short, so I decided to take it apart (yes that is dangerous!) and noticed the ap had little square crystals in it:
<img src="http://members.shaw.ca/raydawg/pics/c-ap.jpg" alt="" />
<img src="http://members.shaw.ca/raydawg/pics/c-ap2.jpg" alt="" />
<img src="http://members.shaw.ca/raydawg/pics/c-ap3.jpg" alt="" />

Is this the more unstable form of ap? or is it just something else like the bicarb solution?

<small>[ May 10, 2002, 09:03 PM: Message edited by: Rat Bastard ]</small>

[PYRO500]

was the stuff dampened with anything when you put it in there did you press it?

[Rat Bastard]

no pressing, it was just put in.

I lit the crystals and they burned just like normal ap.

[PYRO500]

was it damp when you put it in?

[Rat Bastard]

Nope, it was dry when I put it in.

It was one of my test crackers. When I test things I usually make the same thing a few different times with different construction methods.

[Cricket]

Hmmm, I have made some nice batches of AP (and crackers too) in my days, but this never has happened to me and this seems to be bad(!). I hear a lot of people say it will vaporise and recrystalise if it is consatined in something airtight (jar for exapmle) and the crystals are like NI3 (very, VERY sensitive). Did you test the crystals' friction sensitivity? Be careful man, don't let AP win another battle!

[kingspaz]

did it get hot at all? this may cause it to evapourate and recrystalise upon cooling.

[Rat Bastard]

I don't think so, but I smaked it with a hammer twice before it detonated, so It wasn't "super sensitive". But I dunno about it's friction sensitivity. It's all gone now :(

I once had a batch of AP stored in a film canister for over a week and it didnot re-crystilize like this stuff did.

<small>[ May 12, 2002, 01:01 AM: Message edited by: Rat Bastard ]</small>

[vonK]

I store my CTAP in match boxes and after a month or two the powder turns into crystals like you described, about the size of coffee crystal sugar (sometimes bigger).
This crystal CTAP appears to me to be no more sensitive then the powder. I have even crushed them in a motar and pestle with no problems, only a couple of crystals at a time.
I don't worry about it too much.

[DBSP]

I have never seen anything like this crystals. I've had AP sitting for months and it has still been the same and the sensitivity hasn't increesed either. I think it has got something with how thurough you are when you wash it. I allwas spend lots of time washing it to ensure that I get a safe product.

[PYRO500]

I'm going to repeat this for all your safety: Do not store AP for extended periods of time it just isn;t necessary. As for putting AP in a mortar and pestile that has to be the worst thing you can do next to smoking while making explosives. Have you ever herd of a man named Kurt Saxon? He thought he knew what he was doing and lost some fingers by grinding armstrongs mix in a mortar and pestile, now he was grinding two ingredients together that were seprate (but friction sensitive) and you are grinding and cleaving AP's crystal structure witch is a BIG NO NO! that is the kind of stuff that kills!

[Rat Bastard]

I never said that I was grinding it.

It's all gone now (I burned it away).

[vonK]

No, I didn't actually 'grind' it, I just pressed on the individual crystals untill they broke.
But I have ground a crystal of CTAP before and found it took a lot of force before I heard small 'cracking' sounds.
Compared to armstrongs mix, which I have had go off while squezzing a toy cap in my fingers, CTAP is, in my opinion, relatively friction stable. This doesn't mean I don't take all the usually safety precautions, it just means I don't shit my pants every time I handle the stuff.

[PYRO500]

you should when crushing the crystals, that is precisely what can cause larger flat crystals of peroxides to detonate, when you cleave the crystals you can break the weak bonds of the AP, just don't do it again, AP is NOT friction stable.

[Madog555]

storeing AP is bad and if you must do it disolved in alcahol or acetone or under several inches of water.

store it outside or in a place where if it goes off u wont care.

NEVER store it dry or damp and dont put it in a screw lid container. madicine bottles are good or film cans.

[PYRO500]

The only problem is AP isn't soluable in acetone or water but it will sink to the bottom, there will be a bit if crystals on the top, I recomend you scoop out the crystals foating, I hasve no idea if they could form a skin of some kind, I don't store my stuff.

[Rat Bastard]

Oh shit. I just made an unpleasent discovery. I thought I only had 1 ap cracker, but I forgot I had another still on the drying shelf:
<img src="http://members.shaw.ca/raydawg/pics/ap-c.jpg" alt="" />

its about 2 weeks old. Im pretty sure that one is crystilised too. I mistaked it for one of my flash powder ones, but now I remember.

Next time Im gonna lable them.

<small>[ May 15, 2002, 12:19 AM: Message edited by: Rat Bastard ]</small>

[Kdogg]

So how do these compare to m-80s? Are they alot louder? Ive never had the time to make one yet. I know I know I shouldnt compare le's with He's, but its just the sound.. shockwave etc im looking for.

[A_W]

Kdogg, as theese are high-explosive devices, they are, of course much louder than M-80`s.

I recently made a HMTD cracker (pretty much the same as AP) of a drinking-straw. The cracker was a little longer than 1" long. As I detonated it outside my house, I wanted to muffle the sound by placing a bucket over the charge. The whole bucket got ripped almost in half, and I could feel the chockwave! A LE charge the same size (and much bigger), wouldn`t come close to the power of this!