Implosion type FAE

[akinrog]

Something confused me when I was reading Advanced Anarchist Arsenal. There was a device called mothball 30/\/\3 which is actually an implosion type FAE device.

The design and concepts seems to be good, however one thing pisses me. In the section called fuels, ammonia is mentioned as a fuel amongst the other fuels. Reference to ammonia has been made twice one in the text, and another in the list of fuels.

AFAIK, ammonia is not combustible (at least without a catalyst, I believe). Is this an error or something I cannot figure out lurks in the book. I would be very glad if somebody sheds light on this matter.

[Pb1]

Sounds like a crapbook to me. All the signs are there: the word 'anarchist', horrible assaults on the english language (i.e. 30/\/\3), BS up the wazoo. Implosion FAE? WTF? As for the ammonia, it is flammable, but hard to ignite. From an MSDS sheet (http://www.fertilizerworks.com/html/msds_anhyd.html): Slightly flammable in the presence of open flames and sparks. Narrow lower to upper flammability limits (16-25%) makes ignition difficult.

[WMD]

These two pages say it's flammable when you get the correct NH3/air ratio.
Google is your friend :-)
http://www.polkfire.com/ammonia.htm
http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/ammoniarefrigeration/

Btw, did anyone ever test this baby? I'm very interested in its performance but I've never been able to get all the resources to assemble one.

[akinrog]

I have found a similar MSDS on ammonia at this link (http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/a5472.htm).

It says it may burn with 1% concentration in the air. However I doubt that if it's effective, since it's heat value is not very much I believe. In addition this value is for anhydrous ammonia which is hard to keep in an improvised way.

However thank you for the input. :)

[WMD]

Sounds like a crapbook to me. All the signs are there: the word 'anarchist', horrible assaults on the english language (i.e. 30/\/\3), BS up the wazoo. Implosion FAE? WTF? As for the ammonia, it is flammable, but hard to ignite. From an MSDS sheet (http://www.fertilizerworks.com/html/msds_anhyd.html):

While it does indeed have the 'A-word' in its title, it doesn't use the 30/\/\3 spelling and is imho one of the best boom books ever published by paladin press. David Harber knows his stuff and does the necessary research. If you haven't read it I'd recommend you do, it's informative and fun to read.
It doesn't cover a lot of homemade explosives but lots of evil (read 'fun') ways to use them. It's on the ftp but you can also still buy it :D
http://www.ajarmsbooksellers.com/cgi-bin/ajarms/8135.html

[Bugger]

I have seen ammonia oxidize in air in a laboratory, with the evolution of considerable heat, in the presence of a platinum mesh catalyst.

John W.

[akinrog]

I would like to clarify issue. I am using device instead of 30/\/\3. Since the latter draws unnecessary attention I believe.

However since the relevant topic contains that word I converted it into something more illegible. I mean I don't use 30/\/\3 in order to downgrade the book. As I said before the concept is good and only thing that confuses me is ammonia.

[Dr_Pind]

In the book it says, to use a 3/8 - 1/4 inch layer of explosive on the outside of the device. The device in the book was 37 gal of fuel, probably more than any one on this forum is going to consider trying. What if one makes a device of only a couple of litre, eg. 5 - 10 L. Would one need a layer of explosive just as thick as used in the 37 gal. device? And what about the aluminium plates; would they have to be as thick? I really think the description is lacking a lot of detail...

Has anyone got ANY experience with this, or similar devices?

Also wondering, couldn't one simply use an explosive core with some sort of incendiary effect to it, to disperce and ignite the fuel? This would be a LOT easier!

[Dr_Pind]

In the book it says, to use a 3/8 - 1/4 inch layer of explosive on the outside of the device. The device in the book was 37 gal of fuel, probably more than any one on this forum is going to consider trying. What if one makes a device of only a couple of litre, eg. 5 - 10 L. Would one need a layer of explosive just as thick as used in the 37 gal. device? And what about the aluminium plates; would they have to be as thick? I really think the description is lacking a lot of detail...

Has anyone got ANY experience with this, or similar devices?

Also wondering, couldn't one simply use an explosive core with some sort of incendiary effect to it, to disperce and ignite the fuel? This would be a LOT easier!

[Dr_Pind]

In the book it says, to use a 3/8 - 1/4 inch layer of explosive on the outside of the device. The device in the book was 37 gal of fuel, probably more than any one on this forum is going to consider trying. What if one makes a device of only a couple of litre, eg. 5 - 10 L. Would one need a layer of explosive just as thick as used in the 37 gal. device? And what about the aluminium plates; would they have to be as thick? I really think the description is lacking a lot of detail...

Has anyone got ANY experience with this, or similar devices?

Also wondering, couldn't one simply use an explosive core with some sort of incendiary effect to it, to disperce and ignite the fuel? This would be a LOT easier!

[2,4,6-TNP]

I would go with a mixture of Kerosene and Benzene; The U.S. military is
usually right in their selection of the cheapest materials with the highest performance. If you can't get straight benzene a mixture of kerosene and
the highest octane petrol you can find will do the job (it will actually be easier to
ignite anyway).

Ammonia is not the best stuff to work with because it is usually stored in tanks in a liqud form; very very cold. Would be hard to ignite untill the air warmed it up to to it's flash point which is almost impossible, not likely. ;)

A quote from the Fire Protection Handbook, Thirteenth Edition:

"Ammonia gas burns in a mixture of air within a limited range
(16% to 25% by volume of ammonia in air at one atmoshere).
Experiments conducted by Underwriters' Labratories, Inc., indicate
that an ammonia-air mixture in a standard quartz bomb will not
ignite at temperatures below 1,562*F. When an iron bomb having a
catalytic effect was used, the ignition temperature of the Ammonia-
Air mixture was 1,203.8*F." :eek:

Translation: It is just straight stupid to try to make a FAE out of ammonia! :p

Kerosene flash point: minimum legal 100*F
Gasoline 100 octane flash point: -36*F
Benzene flash point: 12*F

The best gases to use in FAE's are propane, butane,
Acetylene, Natural Gas, and Hydrogen.

[2,4,6-TNP]

I would go with a mixture of Kerosene and Benzene; The U.S. military is
usually right in their selection of the cheapest materials with the highest performance. If you can't get straight benzene a mixture of kerosene and
the highest octane petrol you can find will do the job (it will actually be easier to
ignite anyway).

Ammonia is not the best stuff to work with because it is usually stored in tanks in a liqud form; very very cold. Would be hard to ignite untill the air warmed it up to to it's flash point which is almost impossible, not likely. ;)

A quote from the Fire Protection Handbook, Thirteenth Edition:

"Ammonia gas burns in a mixture of air within a limited range
(16% to 25% by volume of ammonia in air at one atmoshere).
Experiments conducted by Underwriters' Labratories, Inc., indicate
that an ammonia-air mixture in a standard quartz bomb will not
ignite at temperatures below 1,562*F. When an iron bomb having a
catalytic effect was used, the ignition temperature of the Ammonia-
Air mixture was 1,203.8*F." :eek:

Translation: It is just straight stupid to try to make a FAE out of ammonia! :p

Kerosene flash point: minimum legal 100*F
Gasoline 100 octane flash point: -36*F
Benzene flash point: 12*F

The best gases to use in FAE's are propane, butane,
Acetylene, Natural Gas, and Hydrogen.

[2,4,6-TNP]

I would go with a mixture of Kerosene and Benzene; The U.S. military is
usually right in their selection of the cheapest materials with the highest performance. If you can't get straight benzene a mixture of kerosene and
the highest octane petrol you can find will do the job (it will actually be easier to
ignite anyway).

Ammonia is not the best stuff to work with because it is usually stored in tanks in a liqud form; very very cold. Would be hard to ignite untill the air warmed it up to to it's flash point which is almost impossible, not likely. ;)

A quote from the Fire Protection Handbook, Thirteenth Edition:

"Ammonia gas burns in a mixture of air within a limited range
(16% to 25% by volume of ammonia in air at one atmoshere).
Experiments conducted by Underwriters' Labratories, Inc., indicate
that an ammonia-air mixture in a standard quartz bomb will not
ignite at temperatures below 1,562*F. When an iron bomb having a
catalytic effect was used, the ignition temperature of the Ammonia-
Air mixture was 1,203.8*F." :eek:

Translation: It is just straight stupid to try to make a FAE out of ammonia! :p

Kerosene flash point: minimum legal 100*F
Gasoline 100 octane flash point: -36*F
Benzene flash point: 12*F

The best gases to use in FAE's are propane, butane,
Acetylene, Natural Gas, and Hydrogen.

[akinrog]

Translation: It is just straight stupid to try to make a FAE out of ammonia! :p



Sir, my point here is not to create a FAE device with ammonia, but trying to understand why the author includes ammonia in the list of fuels. I believe you did not read through the thread properly. The real thread about FAEs is in the HE section. Regards.

[akinrog]

Translation: It is just straight stupid to try to make a FAE out of ammonia! :p



Sir, my point here is not to create a FAE device with ammonia, but trying to understand why the author includes ammonia in the list of fuels. I believe you did not read through the thread properly. The real thread about FAEs is in the HE section. Regards.

[akinrog]

Translation: It is just straight stupid to try to make a FAE out of ammonia! :p



Sir, my point here is not to create a FAE device with ammonia, but trying to understand why the author includes ammonia in the list of fuels. I believe you did not read through the thread properly. The real thread about FAEs is in the HE section. Regards.

[nbk2000]

Ammonia gas burns, but getting the liquid to vaporize to a combustible vapor is the trick.

Like most 'cookbooks', it's unlikely that the author ever actually built and fired the devices of which he speaks, so take everything with a LOT of salt. ;)

[nbk2000]

Ammonia gas burns, but getting the liquid to vaporize to a combustible vapor is the trick.

Like most 'cookbooks', it's unlikely that the author ever actually built and fired the devices of which he speaks, so take everything with a LOT of salt. ;)

[nbk2000]

Ammonia gas burns, but getting the liquid to vaporize to a combustible vapor is the trick.

Like most 'cookbooks', it's unlikely that the author ever actually built and fired the devices of which he speaks, so take everything with a LOT of salt. ;)