Iron palms

[serene]

I have recently done iron palm training and I thought that it was a worthy subject for improvised weapons.

For those of you who dont know what it is I will explain. Iron palm training is the process of conditioning the palms of your hands to create an iron like hand structure. The training only take 90 days to complete and after it your hands prove to be an invaluble weapon. The training isnt overly hard but it does have side effect on the skin/bone/tissues in the hand aswell as the nerves as the process basically means that you deaden every nerve in the hand. Even though this is the case, Iron palm training will allow you to throw even the lightest slap across the face of someone and completely cave in their skull.
I found this to be very practical if a situation leads you to have to fight hand to hand--or hand to palm in this case.

Here is some information about how to start.
Materials Needed:
-10" wide x 24" long (or larger) canvas bag
-approx. 1" round river rocks (enough to fill the bag half way)
-old towel
-cinder blocks (support stand)
-dit da jow

The method is as follows:

Set up the cinder blocks so that you can sit on one and the other(s) create a stand in front of you that is about the height of your naval (while seated). If the surface of your stand is not level due to the shape of the cinder block, you may have to lay an additional concrete slab on the top for a nice flat surface. Place the towel (in single layer) over the support stand. This is your striking surface.

Fill the canvas bag with the rocks and fold the remaining half of the bag over to create a side that is double layered. Tape the bag shut (masking or duct tape will do). Place the bag on the stand and your simple setup is complete.

**When striking for training, it is important to stay relaxed and allow your hand to drop onto the surface.
Do not tense the arm or shoulder, or exert strength while striking. Always breath out as you strike. Exerting strength or failing to breath out is said to stress the heart. Granted, thousands of karateka pound on the makiwara without regard to this and still do not suffer heart attacks. Even so, I choose not to tempt fate and try to keep my arm relaxed as possible. You do what you like at your own risk.

Apply dit da jow to hands and massage before and after each set

PART ONE

1. Drop your flat palm on the bag 30 times, shake out the hand, strike another 20 times, shake out the hand and flex.

2. Drop your knife hand on the bag 30 times, shake, 20 times, shake and flex.

3. Repeat for the palm heel surface.

4. Repeat for the back of the hand.



PART TWO

Remove the bag so that you are now striking the cement/cinder support covered with the towel.

1. Drop your knife hand 30 times, shake, 20 times, shake and flex.

2. Repeat with the palm heel.

3. Repeat with the flat palm.

4. (optional) Strike with backfist 30 times and repeat with straight fist.



Optional training:

You can supplement with a bucket of sand. Straight punch the sand 30 times and repeat with the backfist. Do 100 spearhand thrusts into the sand. You can also rub the sand between you hands to toughen the skin.

Some iron palm practitioners feel that it is unwise to train the knuckles of the fist because of possible long term joint damage. This is fine for strict iron palm fighters, but if you train in any fist striking art, it may be wise to strengthen your knuckles. Chinese acupressure teaches that training the fingertips can weaken the eyes. Take this into consideration when training spearhand but also realize that plenty of karate stylists train fingertips and can see just fine.

Different teachers advocate different numbers of strikes per session. Some use hundreds or even thousands of repetitions. Some say to train three times a day, others say you must train the exact same time everyday without missing a day. Maybe these routines are ideal, but with the method I outlined above, you can train whenever and even miss a day or two. The less days you miss, the better it will be for you. You should achieve impressive results after 100 days of training. At that point, you should be able to break a single patio block with a flat palm slap (use a towel padding at first).

If it helps, mark the days off on your calendar. If you don't keep a record, you may not be training as often as you think. Good Luck!

[Jacks Complete]

I'll let you do all that, then shoot you, since your trigger release will be shite, since you will have no nerves left in your hand!

Also, how can you train your knuckles? They are bones, not muscles, and so are very hard to toughen up.

Basically, you would get the same effect from using a shovel all day for a few weeks, and you would have a cleared driveway, parkland, etc. plus some money!

I can palmstrike a plank hard enough to do real damage to someone's face, or break a concrete block. It hurts like hell, but there you go. You hand wouldn't hurt due to having hurt it a lot already. I say leave the pain for others and just practise your strikes on a firm padded board with a little flex.

[Lurking_Shadows]

I'm not sure but I heard that striking a hard surface over and over with your knuckles you develop a buildup that makes your fists harder.

I've also heard it can cause arthritis due to your joints stiffening.

I may be wrong in this so correct me if I am.

[festergrump]

I am fester completely laughing my ass off... JC, you kill me sometimes! You made me spit beer out my nose with that post. (It just took me by surprise, I guess). :)

Honestly, I think toughening up your hand is ok to a point, but like JC said, hard work will get you there before you know it and with probably better results and benefits. I can't really see the need to be able to drive nails in with my knuckles and am sure to hit you with the palm rather than a closed fist if I had to hit you head on, anyway. Even a backfist should be with the bottom of the fist (like a hammer blow) instead of with the somewhat delicate bones of the hand.

Let me know how that works out for you, Serene. Remember, you have two hands, two knees, and one back in this lifetime. When they go, they go for good... then you're fucked.

My knees are already in the pine box waiting on the rest of me. If my hands ever fail me, shoot ME instead, JC! ;)

[Corona]

Having wasted half my life doing this stuff, a few comments....

Serene: What “dit da jow” recipe do you use? I just use oil of wintergreen plus menthol and eucalyptus.

Lurking shadows: Yes, something will happen to your hands. And no, I haven’t seen anyone with arthritis symptoms… yet. :p Its not arthritis that gets them... I've heard some people lose feelings in their legs when they get old. I haven't seen any such people, mind you, but there seem to be plenty of stories.

Of course I'm not talking about the wash-outs... people who think they are some kind of born-agin bruce lee and bang some body-part on something hard and then say this karate stuff isn't for me. They are in a class of their own... our version of kewls.

Fester: What Serene is doing seems to be overkill from my point of view.

If you want to develop your knuckles, do at least 25 pushups with your knuckles everyday on a hard floor. That’s it. I punched someone once… a light jab… and he went DOWN… bleeding. I was very surprised because I could swear I hadn't used any force. So yes, it works.

We are also taught that whenever the teacher calls for you, or you have to get up anyway, you slap your palms on the floor first.. preferably the fleshy part just inside the knife edge of your hand. Or else just the open palm. Hard. Do this over a period of months and you get the desired result without going into the hard training suggested above.

“Even a backfist should be with the bottom of the fist (like a hammer blow) instead of with the somewhat delicate bones of the hand.”

That’s a “hammer-fist”. It’s a different thing than the back-fist. And you don’t throw a backfist like a back-hand. You shoot it in a straight line, at an angle from the body (more or less), with a slight twisting motion of the wrist, knuckles striking...not the back of the hand, fist horizontal. It’s a real killer and doesn’t hurt you at all while leaving a hole in the head of the other guy. I know what it says in classical karate textbooks... to do it your way, with the shoulder tensed low, (and thats OK too actually) but I've never seen it done like that.

And yes, I agree with you, there seems to be no shortage of stories of martial artists who have harmed their limbs later in life by resorting to drastic training when they were younger. Heavy training and bodily abuse catches up with you, if you're not careful (I've seen it happen with wrestlers... they can't even stand up straight). "Haste makes waste"... famous saying. What is the hurry to do this training in 90 days?

[knowledgehungry]

Your knuckles get toughened up because your knuckles actually increase in bone mass. Your skeletal system is constantly adapting, bones that get high levels of stress become bigger to prevent them from breaking. That is why exercise is recommended to prevent osteoporosis.

[serene]

Fester: What Serene is doing seems to be overkill from my point of view.

The irony when we have people in here making claymores to stop their neighbours stealing the local paper. ;)

Your hands will heal themseleves after a while once your training stops and you will go back to normal with no long term effects.
You guys above were talking about knuckles etc. I do 70 pressups on my knuckles each day, 10 back of the wrist and a few other types. J C -The pressups on the knuckles help form/condition your bones in the knuckles. Any continuous work like that actually forms calcium deposites inside the knuckles and builds/fuses them together. I wouldnt say all this was practical to tell you the truth but its one of them things that some people feel the need to do.
I also agree with a lot of you - a back fist strike is the best strike you can do for sheer power...very easy to collapse someones skull with that.

[raptor1956]

The problem with most martial arts in a real-life encounter (yes, I have trained for a fair period of time!) is that martial artists as a rule will waste time dropping into a stance etc, & a good street-fighter will take them out every time. I found that the best tactic in hand to hand is to take the knowledge of strikes & targets gained & use it to accentuate street-fighting tactics. Of course, the best and easiest methods are avoid the confrontation in the first place, or a lump of 7.62 lead in the head from an unreachable distance!

[Corona]

Serene: "The irony when we have people in here making claymores to stop their neighbors stealing the local paper."

Yeah, OK... :) Good point, when you put it like that.

And please, if at all possible, let me have a dit-da-jow recipie... I would appreciate it very much. Thanks.

Raptor: If a martial artist drops into a stance in a street fight and then gets his butt kicked, it means one of the following:

1. He or she has learnt karate out of a book.

2. He or she is a drop out and did not stick around long enough to be taught that punching from the hip and holding your shoulders rigid and dropping into a stance are practiced more as an exercise in the dojo than as a valid street fight tactic.

3. People who think step-1, step-2, step-3, will ALWAYS get their butts kicked. They have not internalized their training. It still doesn't come naturally to them.

4. He or she intends to write a book on karate.

When you encounter such people, I suggest you put some distance between yourself and them. They can't teach you anything useful.

And yes, I agree with you. As I keep saying, "nothing is faster than a trigger finger".

[xyz]

And yes, I agree with you. As I keep saying, "nothing is faster than a trigger finger".

Hmmmm... How about the bullet? :p

[bipolar]

This is very interesting. Any resources on the net about this? I would like some more info on this. Also, how long does it last after you do 25 push ups a day on fists, just as long as you do the pushups?

[serene]

Hey bipolar- the pressups on the knuckles are not for iron palm training, this is just for simply building up knuckle strength so to speak. Search around. The method I posted (second part of post) was actually a cut and paste from another site I had found ages ago so search around.

I agree with all of what corona says about in his/hers last post. I practice northern 7 star mantis kung fu and foshan wing chun and I can gaurentee that all the wingchuners i know waste no time at all :D

Corona im not sure what oils I use as i get them off my sifu. I think he actually makes his own recipees but dont quote me on that. Ill try to find out for you. Do you practice any martial arts? Found them practical in real life scenarios?

[Corona]

Bipolar: “how long does it last after you do 25 push ups a day on fists, just as long as you do the pushups?”

Well, I can only speak from my experience. I took a long break once… long enough to turn my blackened knuckles back to a pretty pink. But when I tried them out on a leather bag.. no problem. I think its permanent.

Also I would like to clarify that in my style we only use the two front big knuckles. So you use them for pushups only. Serene is practicing Chinese styles. I *think* they use all the knuckles, even the last small ones.


Serene: “Corona im not sure what oils I use as i get them off my sifu. I think he actually makes his own recipees but dont quote me on that.”

Darn… I was afraid of that… I’ve heard most masters have their own recipes, some better than others. Its ok. Thanks.

“Do you practice any martial arts? Found them practical in real life scenarios?”

Yes. It’s called “Bando”. It originated in Burma, and is now also widely practiced in places like Pakistan and Nepal and of course, USA. Has a heavy karate influence (because of WW-2) and is said to be similar to thai-boxing in its original form.

And yes, it keeps me out of troublesome situations before they can suck me in. Plus, I believe it has made me smarter… added a few points to my IQ… with better memory and awareness and observation skills. No, I’ve never used it in anger.

[serene]

I do use all of my knuckles in fighting but also just the first one when using the technique from wingchun called pheonix eye.

Even though this is the case i try to only do pressups on the first 2 knuckles to avoid injury as breaking/ruining the last two knuckles on the hands is one of the most common injuries in martial arts.