Koktail "ARSOVA"

[simply RED]

This is my last device...
it is constructed by two bottles, one full with gasoline and one with 30%hydrogen peroxide. Actually i used 60% but it will not be available for you. with 30% woorks too.
You wrap the two bottles with tape to secure them to each other.
you take "UPSArine" small plastic container and fill it with KMnO4 and sulphur. wrap the upsa with tape to the bottles. The device is put in nylon bag with KMnO4.
1. inject 5ml glycerine in the upsa container
2 THROW IT!
............
I also believed it won't work...
it is an interesting experiment everyone can do...
mix 30% H2O2 and gasoline or diluter for paint in a beher glass, 10 ml H2O2 and 10ml gasoline. on the ground put some chrystals KMnO4. Leak the mixture on the ground! IMMEDIATELY, gas cloud becomes to form!
This contains PURE oxigen and gas fumes!!!!!!!!!!!
ignite the gas from 5 meters by throwing a match into it!
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!!
The H2O2 decomposes and produces heat and O2! the gas eveporates and forms cloud....
now immagine it with 1liter gas and 1 liter H2O2!!!!
1. it is better to throw against a wall, hitting it near the ground :)
2. with some paint diluters it works better than with gasoline.
I called the device cocktal ARSOVA
it produces blast to destroy the windows in 20 meters and fireball 5 meters in diamater, 3 meters high with 2 beer bottles...

with these fucking computers here i have to edit the posts 100 times!!!

<small>[ October 21, 2002, 10:15 AM: Message edited by: simply RED ]</small>

[Eliteforum]

Sounds like something you'd see in a crapbook, oh and sig limit is 3 lines.

(Does my/your/whoever's sig have to be in English? :confused: )

[PhRaZMAkInEtIcS]

Simple RED could you please tell me where you got your 60%H2O2 from because i am also from BG and i haven't seen any H2O2 with a concentratio highter than 30%.Not that i want to buy it(30% suits me fine) but i just want to know where you got it from.

Don't get me wrong but don't you think your just waisting soo many usefull chemicals(not to forget the UPSARIN :) )for some simple fire

PS. I'm sorry my first post starts with a question

[NERV]

This really sounds like something out of the crapbook. I dont think that gasoline will break H2O2 down into Oxygen and hydrogen. Gasoline dosnt have the right chemical properties to do so.

(someone with better knowlage in chemistry prove me wrong or right).

[NoltaiR]

Even if it is not from the crapbook(s), it might as well have been. What were you thinking simplyRED?

[kingspaz]

the KMNO4 decomposes the H2O2 i believe upon thrwoing and mixture of the chemicals.
it does sound like some crap book piece of shit BUT i think hes just pround to have invented somthing remotely useful. this could be useful for its larger destructive effect over standard incendary weapons such as molotov cocktails. i think it could do with a diagram and some better explaination to make it more of an invention other than a text file.
simply red can you draw us up a picture to explain things better and to try and get some of your cred back?

edit: by the way i decided to leave this open because despite the complaints i think it has potential.

<small>[ October 21, 2002, 05:33 PM: Message edited by: kingspaz ]</small>

[vulture]

Directly mixing 60% H₂O₂ and gasoline with an emulgator might result in an detonatable mixture or maybe even something spontaneously flammable. The H₂O₂is merely used for oxygen production here, it decomposes because of the KMnO₄.

BTW, throwing KMnO₄ powder into only 60% H₂O₂ might already result in an explosion.

[Switchblade]

At high concentrations (I don't remember exactly, 80% and up I think)H2O2 becomes unstable and can explode all by itself. If, in two seperate bottles taped together, these two chemicals were submitted to a shock wave powerful enough shatter the bottles, disperse/mix the liquids, and decompose the H2O2, the energy of the reactions would be released quicker, making this more effective. If it a low cal/g explosive, or just to ensure ignition, I would add a small pouch of flash powder to the equation. I will try this this weekend, so that instead of suggesting things to others I MIGHT be usefull.

[nbk2000]

Vaseline will spontaneously ignite in contact with 100% oxygen, so gasoline exposed to a powerful oxidizer and pure oxygen should have no problems, especially with potassium permanganate catalyzing the breakdown of the peroxide.

With the extra oxygen being supplied by the peroxide, the gasoline should be able to burn VERY quickly, and extra hot. :) Plus maybe be able to withstand attempts to put it out with an extinguisher since it's oxygen supply is self contained.

[Marvin]

"Vaseline will spontaneously ignite in contact with 100% oxygen"

Mr Cool said something similar recently, where did this idea come from, it doesnt sound right, I assume it means at room temperature?

My understanding was vasoline was essentially an alkane, and there should be no reaction occuring with oxygen at room temp that could cause ignition....

Even unsaturated terpenes need something like chlorine to ignite unaided.

[nbk2000]

Vaseline is a petroleum product. They are readily oxidized. In the process, the reaction generates heat. If the oxidation is rapid enough, the heat builds up to ignition.

This is the cause of spontaneous combustion in greasy rags.

[PhRaZMAkInEtIcS]

Well if you do it with 1L H202 and 1L Gasoline i don't think anyone would just want to throw a match at the cloud of oxygen and gasoline.Maybe you can leave something burning next to it so it can ignite by itself.

[Marvin]

Some petrolium products are easily oxidised, alkanes are not. They are stable to oxygen, halogens, oxidising agents and in the absence of free radicals nothing happens at all. No oxidation even in tiny amounts, unlike for example linseed oil which is unsaturated and does oxidise in air. Ive checked the MSDS for vasoline and it contains nothing to suggest it reacts with anything, no materials to avoid contact with, no polymerisation, non toxic, non carcinogenic and absolutly nothing in the fire/explosion hazard data section. Everything suggests its completely stable in oxygen at RT. If spontaneously combustion in oxygen was a problem it should be on here. Since vasoline is a pharm product, its well controlled and understood. I'm quite convinced there is no chance of it igniting in oxygen without an external cause. Do we know where the 'vasoline ignites in pure oxygen' idea comes from?

Greasy rags are not commonly prone to igniting but it could happen. Grease can consist of a mixture of unsaturated lubricants which can be partially oxidised while in use as well as solvents used to remove them, the dirty rag can contain possible catalysts... It could happen.

[Switchblade]

My dad has a bottle of "Oxygen, Compressed" in our gararge he said he got from a hospital. Although it says in small print "Danger: Keep grease and oil away." I filled balloon from the tank, and squirt the gas onto a small blob of vaseline,- nothing. Then onto a puddle of sewing machine oil- nothing. Neither even warmed up. I put some oil and vaseline into an empty coffee can, emptied another balloon's worth of gas into the bottle, closed the lid, and left it for 2 minutes. It still wasn't even warm. Even if the gas was not 100% pure, it definatly was far above the atmosphere's concentration(burning sock test), and it should have reacted to some degree.
If the reaction at 100% oxygen generates enough heat to ignite oil or grease, even at the atmosphere's 20% it should at least be warm.

<small>[ October 22, 2002, 05:20 PM: Message edited by: Switchblade ]</small>

[simply RED]

This is so destructive that i disputed with myself to post it or not :) . With two beer botles it produces an extreme blast (the last test was in abbandoned facility for pesticides mixing, everything from wood flew away, the concrete was not demadged. The structure remained burning for 10 minutes. I injected the glycerine with medicine injection in the upas and threw the device in a hole in the facaility 's wall run away and BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!
I must try it with 2liters 30% peroxide and 5 liters gas, it will be burst with 10 grams urea nitrate, the UN will just burst it, not ignite, the second 50 grams nitropenta or RDX and al will blow the cloud :) everything will be with 300 meters wires and will be controlled from a tank trench. The experiment will cost 6 dolars (without the second detonator).
You must try it with 10ml gas nad 10 ml peroxide, put some kmno4 on the ground leak the mixture on it, and after some seconds ignite the gas cloud remotely.
The good thing with this is that it is times more powerful in enclosed area. This handheld FAM bursting in a car will destroy it absolutely fully, no glass, no doors and everything elese will burn.
The igniter with KMnO4 S and gly is very good and it flashes just on time.
The bad thing is that the device will be just molotov in very windy conditions.
Hey. phr**** you are from BG, aren't you. GREETINGS, i thought we are extincted species here! Write me mail with more info about you.
And you can buy 60% peroxide in Varna near the old graves, there are 2 chem shops,also in sofia and plovdiv but don't know where?

[nbk2000]

Petroleum and oxygen will combust IF certain conditions are applied. That being high surface area, high heat retention, and presence of impurities (of an unspecified nature) that act as catalysts to get the reaction going.

Obviously, the flame and heat from glycerine/Kmno4 will do the job.

Given the pure oxygen and gasoline vapors, it's a given that you're going to have one hell of a flash fire. :D

Have you thought about trying to detonate it using a compound det w/ booster? At the high % of peroxide you have, plus the fuel, it's practically a sprengel explosive. Also, you can concentrate peroxide to 99% by freezing and using some simple chemical (that I can't remember the name of but the file is on the FTP somewhere).

[Mr Cool]

Marvin: I don't think I ever said vaseline will ignite in pure oxygen, or anything similar... please copy and paste what I said. I could have made a mistake, or you could be mistaken, but it's remotely possible I suppose that someone's messing with my account. Better to be safe than sorry.

Unfortunately gasoline and H2O2 aren't miscible, so it'd be hard to detonate a mixture of them. It might be possible with a good emulsifying agent. Maybe a carboxylic acid or ketone would work, they should be soluble in H2O2, and not as easily oxidisable as alcohols or most other polar fuels, so it should be less prone to spontaneous combustion.

[Eliteforum]

Mr Cool, it wasn't you that said it. It was NBK:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica"> Vaseline will spontaneously ignite in contact with 100% oxygen </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">Marvin:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">"Vaseline will spontaneously ignite in contact with 100% oxygen"

Mr Cool said something similar recently, where did this idea come from...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">

<small>[ October 23, 2002, 11:56 AM: Message edited by: Mr Cool ]</small>

[Marvin]

I apologise unreservedly Mr Cool.
It wasnt you it was Jhonbus in the liquid oxygen thread in the chemistry section. I think 'Cool' and 'liquid air' must have shorted out somewhere, now about that brain transplant.....

Jhonbus - "I was making my assumption based on reports of petroleum jelly spontaneously igniting in 100% O2 atmospheres"

I'm interested to know where these reports came from, the chemistry doesnt make sense to me.

[nbk2000]

What's the time frame though? It could be constant exposure over months is required.

[Marvin]

I dont know the timeframe, Ive failed to find anything on the web, which is hardly surprising. Ive been trying to think of something you could add to vasoline to make it more reactive. Long chain alkanes are about as inert as carbon compounds get without fluorine.

I think if you had NO2, or acid chlorates in strong sunlight you might have something happening over a long period of time to make it reactive. Sunlight can initiate free radical reactions, but unless you have processes where they can multiply they will only happen very very slowly, and the sort of mixtures required are rather beyond the 'vasoline and oxygen' premise. Maybe the reports were based on vasoline+chlorate mixtures, which should be pretty damn stable with an antacid, but without, and add sunlight, and maybe someone adding sulphur to make it more sensative.....

I dont see it happening unless you make the sort of mistakes that work without vasoline. Short of high temperatures and the sort of free radical reactions that happen during burning, I cant see how it might degrade at all, no functional groups, alkanes are abysmal acids so hydrogen will stay where it is. Graphite is more reactive than alkanes are at room temp. Anything that attacks H-C sp3 bonds would attack the H-C surface layer on diamond, and how many reagents can boast that.