storing gasoline and diesel

[bobo]

Does anyone know if and how it is best to store gasolines?

I want to keep a store of gasoline just in case the goatheads pull off something unforeseen with the consequence of us having no power and no fuel. Or, more likely, fuel becoming too expensive for joyriding my little van.

However, I am afraid that using the gasoline jerrycans the fuel will be good only for a few years. On the other hand, I can get empty solvent bottles of high quality from a labstore I frequent for chemicals, at no cost. These bottles have closures that resist toluene, hexane, etc. Would it do to store gasoline in such large glass bottles? Or will gasoline degrade by some inherent magic to the point it will ruin my generator/engine? Yeah, I am aware of fire hazard, but I think I can cope with that.

How about diesel fuel? I know this stuff has phase separation of naphtalene and other heavy shit at low temperatures, but I suppose this is only a mixing problem that can be solved by heating it and dissolving all solidities.

[nbk2000]

Survivalist forums would be a better place to ask such questions, as they've put much thought into this very subject.

Check out frugal squirrel.

[Anthony]

Fron the top of my head:

Petrol will start going bad within a few weeks of storage. It needs to be kept under pressure to stop this happening, ~100psi should be enough. Empty propane bottles can be used for this.

Diesel doesn't need to be kept under pressure (IIRC), but can become contaminated by fungi, and a biocide may be required to treat this.

[Bugger]

Storing the stuff in glass is too dangerous! Some glass bottles develop cracks with only minimal uneven heating, and they or the caps may not stand the pressure if the ambient temperature subsequently warms up after filling with gasoline. Unless you want to make Molotov cocktails?

On the other hand, using large above-ground steel tanks (hundreds of liters), well away from buildings, as farmers generally use, is too much like "having one's eggs all in the same basket", because of the possible consequences of such tanks leaking, and too dangerous to have in built-up housing areas. I think that 20-liter steel jerry-cans, with good stoppers, would be the best compromise, stored in an outside steel-clad shed away from your house.

As for "petrol (gasoline in the USA) going bad after a few weeks of storage", there are two ways that this can happen. Either the most volatile components vaporize and leak through imperfect stoppers or caps (silicone rubber would probably be the best gasket material), leaving the heavier components and the additives; or else it dissolves any organic impurities in the storage vessel.

[Anthony]

Gasoline decomposes. I believe the main effect is to create chemicals that have a low octance rating, and so will cause knocking if you run the gas in an engine.

I did a quick bit of googling for "storing gasoline "going bad"", and found this:

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000Awk

Check the last post at the bottom of the page. The guy's grammar sucks, but he seems to know what he's talking about.

The main points seem to be:

The smaller the storage container, the worse the storage life. You need several hundred gallons, plus.

The tank should be buried to reduce temperature.

The tank must be completely purged of all oxygen and kept this way

Commercial stabilisers should be added.

This will keep gasoline good for up to a year. Two years if you have the right gasoline and are lucky.

This guy reckons that the average life of gasoline is 45-90 days.

Makes me think I should throw away that emergency gallon that's been rolling around in the back of my car for at least 6 months!

[warmage]

Military organizations are all fuel hogs, a M1A1 gets about 400 to 500 meters per gallon, and they may have to store there fuel for years.
My memory is somewhat imperfect now, but i think that what the 169th Signal Detachment did was add a fuel conditioner to the storage tanks.
So many gals of fuel conditioner per 1000 Gal of diesel. If my still imperfect memory still serves....it must have contained some sort of biocide too, as it had poison labels all over it.

[TreverSlyFox]

Store fuel in steel containers otherwise the Octaine rating will drop over time. Plastic containers will allow the additives to evaporate so you only use plastic for short periods of time (a month or so).

Stablize the fuel with PRI products, PRI-G for gasoline and PRI-D & PRI-Biocide for Diesel. PRI products have been used for a long time in the Marine Industry so it might not be found locally unless you have a Marina close by. PRI-G has the ability to RESTORE old gasoline to refinery fresh standards. One of the tests they did was take gas from and old junker in a junk yard that had sat for years. They took a sample and added PRI-G to it and sent it off to an independant lab, the lab reported it as "Refinery fresh" fuel. STA-BIL will NOT do that, it will only stabilize "Fresh" fuel. PRI will make old, bad fuel useable again.

I currently store 600gal Diesel, 300gal Unleaded Gasoline and 110gal Kerosene, the Gas and Diesel are treated with PRI and no problems in 3 years with the fuels. The Diesel runs my 23KW back-up generator and that runs 15 minutes every month on 3 year old Diesel. I've run the Gas in my John Deere Lawn Tractor and once in awhile top off my 1 ton GMC but at least 200gal is 3 years old. I top off the storage tanks once a year in the fall and have never add more the 30 gallons in a year to either tank.

Yup, I'm a Frugal Squirrel Survivalist.

[Isotoxin]

Cool Trever! I am also on Frugal's Forum. I would like to be able to store gasoline some day but current status prevents me from storing large amounts. I imagine Al tanks would keep all the gas in but not have the rust problem that steel does.

[bobo]

The problem is there is conflicting information about the subject. One source mentions storage life to 5 years using PRI or something like that, the other only 2 years.

I suppose the military, who of course have to keep stocks, rotate their fuel using first in first out principle, so it isn't so much of a problem.

So the conclusion seems to be that storing gasoline is a bad idea if simply for economical reasons. Diesel engines are better, because biodiesel will work as well. Unfortunately, diesel generators are big and very expensive.

[doggie]

most military engines are multi-fuel and will run on almost anything combustible, even bad diesel is good enough for them to keep moving.

Thats why most military fuel storage facilities are nothing fancy.