Log in

View Full Version : Improvised Cluster Grenade Ideas


Psychlonic
November 1st, 2004, 11:33 PM
I have been toying with the idea of a cluster grenade which, when armed and thrown, will launch several bomblets in an area which in turn explode - causing a large radius of damage.
To achieve this, my initial design is to create a PVC pipebomb which will launch several other pipebombs surrounding the PVC one. These will more than likely need to be attached with either light glue or a some sort of tape.
In order for this to work properly, the PVC bomb MUST direct force towards the bomblets - not out the sides of the bomb. However, one must be cautious in not having too much force which will detonate the metallic clad bombs surrounding it.
The reason the center bomb is PVC is to allow for buildup of pressure, yet no armor piercing shrapnel is thrown.
It must be also stressed that in my design, the bomblets are not as long as the initiator bomb. The fuses in the bomblets will be slightly longer than that used in the initiator - giving just enough time for the bomblets to spread and then detonate.
At least 3 bomblets would be needed to sufficiently utilize the pressure from the initiator. It's a bit of a trade-off; the fewer the bomblets, the less area they cover but the more destructive they are (because they are bigger). The more bomblets you have, the more area they will cover but they will not be as destructive (since they are smaller). You want bomblets covering the entire circumference of the initiator bomb.
As you can see, the fuses are intertwined at the top so that they may all be lit at once. Simple, reliable, and puts the explosions in unison well.

Now there is another problem to be addressed. There is a chance that the explosion from the initiator may try to escape out of the endcaps of the PVC since there is the least amount of resistance there. To remedy this, the endcaps should be thicker than the pipe itself.
This brings us to the last step - actual charges used in the initiator and bomblets. For the initiator, blackpowder should be sufficient in propelling the bomblets. The bomblets themselves can contain just about anything you want. A good idea may also be to use some flashpowder in the initiator and/or create a flashbang to destract the enemy as the cluster grenade goes off. Just be careful the mixture isn't powerful enough to melt or punch a hole in your bomblets.
This cluster grenade need not be used only as a destructive device. You could also use smokebombs as your bomblets, and make the initiator catch these on fire so that a large area is covered in smoke in no time at all.
One may also be able to use thermite in the bomblets to spread it's destructive capability over a larger surface. Coupled with the "Thermite Fountain" idea, the bomblets would increase in efficiency even more.



Design Improvements and Variations:
+ To improve bomblet spread, one idea may be to use a spherical initiator and spherical bomblets. This would not only allow for the attachment of more bomblets, but it should also create an optimal volume for ease of transport. You could also try a cylinderical initiator with spherical, even cubical bomblets.
+ Another way to improve bomblet spread would be to place the grenade on a post in a vertical manner. This way, some of the bomblets aren't simply stopped by the ground underneath of it. You could also take this passive method farther by placing the device up in a tree or other tall object. In this manner, the grenade would make an excellent boobytrap with a high kill probability.
+ Yet another way to improve bomblet spread might be to variate the above method. Placing tassels onto the bomblet to improve flight and placing a point on the tip of the bomb, the grenade could be thrown like a football into a soft object, such as dirt, sod, or a wooden plank.
+ Bomblet spread could possibly be varied by placing them as certain angles. For example, placing wedges between the bomblets and the initiator could have effects ranging from throwing the bomblets in the air, to forcing them to penetrating an object - depending on the angles used and bomblet modifications.


This originally came from a text file I wrote on my computer, and there was an ASCII drawing of what it looked like (in general), but it doesn't transfer over well. I'll try to draw up a sketch in MS Paint or something and add it to the post when I get the chance.
So what do you think? Is my idea feasible or will it (quite literally) blow up in my face? Mind you I don't actually have access to the materials required to test this at the moment.

EDIT - Here's my MS Paint mock up. Excuse the crudeness.
http://img12.exs.cx/img12/4383/ClusterGrenade.jpg

As you can see, there are no dimensions. This is merely to give you a basic idea as to what it looks like and basic functions.

Lurking_Shadows
November 2nd, 2004, 12:15 AM
Intrusting idea but what if you made the outer casing a mould of nitrocellulose with the "bomblets" incased in it, in theory when your main charge goes off it will burn away the nitrocellulose in flight igniting you "bomblets".

The only problems I can see is you'd have a fair amount of work forming the two halves of the mould and then attaching them together supporting whatever explosive projectile compound you wish to use as well as needing to create a metal tap to insure it doesn't go off pre-maturely by your fuse.

Psychlonic
November 2nd, 2004, 01:33 AM
That could work with certain set-ups, such as my smokebomb idea, but the main idea of the whole thing is to have a huge damage area, and the best way to achieve that is with metal casings which throw shrapnel all over the place.

teshilo
November 14th, 2004, 04:47 AM
Throwing this grenade more than on thirty yards hard.This not safer for you .More practical use these device as rifle launched grenade equipped small parachute for burst in air .Or simple as R/C anti group/convoy land mine .I read patent described similar device for riot conrol purprose ,sorry dont remember number.Launching charge placed on bottom and after initiation launch tubular gas and flash grenades placed on it. As in patent these device may placed on the bottom car for R/C control from cabines.May be all.

Lurking_Shadows
November 20th, 2004, 11:38 PM
Just a quick thing.
What if you made your Cluster Grenade with a wooden, metal, or aluminum pole (like those German grenades) and have the fuse running out the back of it.
Would that improve on distance or would it be too inconvenient?

Psychlonic
November 21st, 2004, 05:39 PM
Unfortunately, I don't know how well this thing is going to throw yet, so I'm unsure if turning it into a "potato masher" is necessary. However, the questions are killing me. So depite a lack of resources, I'm going to be (hopefully) testing my design out within a few weeks.
I'm doing as much improvising as possible without making the devise too much of a hazard. Since I simply don't have the resources to make a decent sized model with all bomblets filled with an explosive (high OR low), I am simply going to fill the initiator/launcher/whatever-you-wanna-call-it with what blackpowder I have left. I haven't been able to aquire a satisfactory casing for this yet, but I may epoxy a couple film canisters (top to top) together to improvise, then apply epoxy on the outside to give it just a little more pressure.
As for the bomblets themselves, they won't be exploding at all. I am going to use 5 zinc casings salvaged from spent "D" cell batteries with the plates epoxied to the ends well. These will be filled with water. The idea here is that if the casings are punctured from the initial blast, the water will leak out notifying me of failure. The bomblets will be attached to the initiator by hotglue (testing concept here, not going for durability yet).
I may also attach string to the device to simulate a fuse. This is so I know whether the inital blast will be powerful enough to blow it away or not. These will also be sprayed orange so that I can locate them easier in my testing field, where I can them record the spread pattern and tightness.
I haven't decided on the possibility of the tassels or tip yet. More than likely however they will be omitted from the experiment.

Ideally, I would like to experiment with an actual PVC initiator and steel bomblet casings. Both the bomblets and the initiator would both be filled with a low explosive. Ball bearings would also be glued in the outer spaces between the bomblets so that even the initiator does immediate damage.
The finished device would then be tested in the same field I'm going to use, but with helium balloons placed in a formation. I could then analyze the lethalness of the devise based on how many balloons were left standing - a popped balloon counting as at least an injury of course.

Another unfortunate thing is that I do not have a digital camera and therefor will probably not be able to post actual pictures of the devise and it's trial. While I know this horribly destroys my credibility, the best I can do is describe how it goes and make some diagrams on my computer to illustrate the results.

crucible
January 22nd, 2005, 01:57 AM
For the bomblets could you use several steel c02 cannisters/cartridges as per several recipes for p*pe bombs. I am sure you could fuse it so that the dispersing charge goes off a second before the bomblets.

It would be cool of you could put it together so it could all be shot out of a mortar.

For dispersal charges you could look at those used in model rocketry to blow the chute etc after flight.

Perhaps having the bomblets set off by cannon fuse that is lit by the burning of the propellant (would need a propellant/dispersal charge with a small Al or Mg percentage or the ends coated in BP/Nitrocellulose to ensure ignition)?

Just random thoughts but like the idea.

Crucible