Mercury bullets?

[A-BOMB]

As I have stated before I came into posession of a bunch of mercury. And I got to thinking what if I took a standard FMJ bullet or hollow point and heated it so the lead came out and left a copper jacket. And then filled it with mercury, and then sealed it. I was thinking it would have an effect like a glosser safety round, when hitting the target it would rupture and expand causing more energy to be transfered to the target, and the mercury would be poisous as well. And the jacket of the bullet would be pretty much destroyed, and you cant get a ballistics match off of a pile of mercury. What do you guys think? Would the liquid mercury cause the bullet to have no accuracy?

[festergrump]

I've heard of tipping hollowpoints with mercury before.

Melting out all the lead and filling the jacket up with mercury sounds like not only a really BAD idea but time consuming, too, even if it worked. The copper jacketing is so thin your bullet would not retain any shape when fired and you'd more than likely be spraying precious mercury out the muzzle with every shot and fouling your barrel bore with ripped pieces of jacket.

I would definitely be more inclined to fill a factory hollow point 3/4 full with mercury then top it off with superglue or hot melt glue. You might even drop a .177 BB on top of the mercury and glue it there for extra mushrooming effect. (the mercury will kill them sure as shit, but a nice expanding round in the guts will neutralize them until the real payload hits the heart via the bloodstream). :D

[Edit: I take no credit for the BB idea. It's been around a long time and IIRC has been posted here before on another thread.]

[Third_Rail]

Mercury won't add much effect to a standard JHP, although it will dissolve some of the lead.

Just aim and make your shots count, don't waste mercury.

[Flake2m]

I read something about mercury tipped bullets when I read "The Day of the Jackal" by fredrick Forsyth.
Now I know its a novel, but the book discribed Mercury tipped bullets. Mention that a hole had been drilled into a standard bullet (so its hollowpoint) then a drop of mercury was put in the hole, which was then sealed with lead. It then went on to explain that they worked very well, because of the difference in density between lead and mecury and basically shattered when there was a major velocity change (such as a headshot).
The theory sounds quite plausible and sound, however the only way to find out would be to test the theory.

[mixojoe]

Yeah i saw the technique on an old B-grade movie many years ago also

[nuclearattack]

I think mercury will expand in the target's body causing a very large damage on soft targets of course, to take advantage of mercury bullets i imagine that you should use a very fast ammo/gun like a sniper gun or the mercury will be stopped quickly.
This kind of bullet should works perfectly in a gauss gun because mercury is not diamagnetic. Imagine a plastic hollow bullet filled with mercury, the huge magnetic field will speed up the bullet acting on the inner mercury, the effect on a soft target is easy to imagine!
I'm just building a new gauss gun and now i'm looking for a good SCR at a good price...it should be very interesting to make some tests with mercury bullets.
Where i can find mercury? It shouldn't be easy to buy because it's poisonous.
Please don't tell me about thermometers! Too much expensive!

[tmp]

If you use a lot of Hg in the bullet, the propellant in the round will have
be to reduced. The additional weight created by the denser Hg could
produce dangerous pressures in the action and barrel. If you reload
your own ammo, this should'nt be a problem because you'll have the
projectile weight in grains.

[Third_Rail]

And it still won't be accurate. The twist rate in most barrels WILL NOT stabilize a bullet filled with mercury.

And like I said, mercury dissolves lead. Don't believe me? Test it out.


I personally use mercury to remove lead fouling from barrels now and then.

[Psychlonic]

I think a safer and cheaper alternative would be to just place a round, steel ball inside of a JHP and seal it. This way the ball would be pushed forward upon impact through something like, oh, Kevlar. You could also try placing three or four smaller ones into the tip. It may produce better effects, or it may not, depending on the caliber and ammount of propellant.
I'm assuming we're talking about .44 and weaker ammo here.

[Jacks Complete]

I'm sure I already posted on this thread... weird.

Anyway, to type it all again:-

Mercury will form an amalgam with lead, after a while. This stops it being liquid, and so the effect you want is lost.

Mercury is very nasty, so don't go breathing it's fumes. It is very heavy, too, but I doubt that stabilisation will be too hard.

The harder jacket of 90/10 brass will take the strain of the mercury through the rifling rotation, I think. They certainly seem tough as hell, but try it out first.

You will have fun getting the void totally filled and then sealed, which you need to do so that an air bubble doesn't ruin any chance at accuracy. Mercury will run to the outside as it is spun, and so effects on the point of impact are to be expected. The way around this is to leave no air gap.

I think I wrote some other stuff, but I forget...

[Sarevok]

US 5,763,819 has information on armor piercing fragmenting bullets, including details on the composition of alloys that are suitable for the crafting of those bullets. One of the constituents of the alloys is mercury. Check NBK's pdf pages 62-77.

[jackhammer]

I don't know or pretend to know a lot about chemistry, but I do know a lot about guns (a lot of experience in the military and my current job as a trainer). I have to say that I agree with third_rail:
Just aim and make your shots count, don't waste mercury.
I don't know how fast mercury kills, but I don't imagine someone shot with a mercury filled bullet will die fast enough to make it a silent kill, if that's what you're hoping for, or to ensure they won't shoot back. A double tap with a .45 (or .357 if you like a lot of power) to vital areas will do the trick. And if you really want to make sure they go down with the first shot, use a .44, 454, .50AE, or .500 S&W. Just make sure you don't break your wrist! :)

[Jacks Complete]

jackhammer,
the idea is that the mercury "fragments" more easily than the lead, and the shots kill in the same way. The slow mercury poisoning would just be handy if you managed *not* to kill them - but you would be looking at the chair for it, if you got caught. Slowly poisoning someone is far worse to the jury than simple shooting.

[jackhammer]

the idea is that the mercury "fragments" more easily than the lead
As I said, I'm no chemist. However, I do find it hard to believe that the mercury fragments vs. lead fragments would make so much of a difference as to be worth the time and effort it takes to modify any number of cartridges. I suppose it might make a more lethal .22, which are generally fired by cheaper guns than say, a .45, and are also subsonic (making them easier to silence, as you would only need to suppress the explosion, not the sonic crack). This might be worth it for a public killing where the object is to make sure your target dies without drawing attention to the origin of the bullet (you). Even if the shot did not kill, the posion might. I find little else in the usefulness of this idea, especially in a combat situation. If you could manage to quickly produce large numbers of say, 5.56 (.223) NATO rounds with mercury, and also manage to prevent the rounds from fouling your gun, this idea might work. Because I don't know enough about mercury, and have never test fired a mercury round, I can't combare the stopping power of a mercury round vs. lead, steel, tungsten carbide, or any other round.

[Jacks Complete]

The whole point about the Mercury is that it is liquid, and so you can't pull fragments out with a pair of tweezers, and there will be many, many more fragments, which are also lethally toxic.

You wouldn't want the mercury filling in a bullet like a .223, since they already destroy themselves on impact (or go right through without expanding, but simply turning over once to go base first) and they are very fast spinners doing Mach 2.

You use the mercury idea in a very slow bullet, so that it still expands horrifically on impact, even at extended ranges.

You don't need to be a chemist, only to know that Mercury is heavier than lead, yet liquid at room temperatures, and toxic.

You could easily use a different lethal toxic substance, but they would be far lighter, reducing the effect of the initial shot.

[A2675770]

Mercury expands when heated, very hot expanding gases from the propelant, could cause the bullet to deform into a projectile with unevenmass and density, which could cause the projectile to be less accurate.
I'm not exactly sure of the outcome, but what about darts? It would be much easier to fill a dart with mercury then to remove the lead from a bullet and still face the problem of, as Jack's complete has said, forming a amalgam.

It depends mostly on range and velocity, just a suggestion..

[FUTI]

Only few post make this post worth of reading IMHO A-BOMB.

Mercury is to much cost by the bullet, as you read in the posts bellow steel ball(s) can make same kind of blasting dispersal effect as mercury. The gauss gun as a special type could make use of it. Mercury also quickly solidify in any alloy with metal (as I remember with Na it takes about 4% to make it solid) which reduce the effect you want.

Mercury alloy can melt on impact with target but the lead based alloy can too, so what is the purpose? Is the main goal to make an ammo with altered balistic properties or to deliver toxic payload? In the first case you are on wrong tracks since it can be made through different means, in the second case that poison is so slow acting that unless completely uninformed and without means to find an entry point (which in case of .220 only blind man can do) a low-grade-shit of a medic can cure (in not so many words find stronger fast acting poison to bust the ammo). In my oppinion you tried to combine two oposed strategy but you missed. In the case of changing balistic properties you waste a fortune, and in toxic "candy" you are being so cheap:)

No hard feeling I hope. Keep that spirit.

[festergrump]

Futi,

If I am not reading your post wrong you seem to be speaking rather condecendingly towards A-Bomb. I gathered that he simply has ALOT of mercury on his hands and thought he'd open for discussion this avenue of use. Sorry only few of the posts in this thread were worthy of your eyes...

Only few post make this post worth of reading IMHO A-BOMB. [SNIP!]
No hard feeling I hope. Keep that spirit.
Why don't you go ahead and call him "Boy" like he's a preteen or something? :rolleyes: The rest of us will try to do better.

[nbk2000]

Doesn't matter anyways, as A-Bomb is no longer amoung us, having fucked up on another matter.

[xyz]

One thing that I think nobody has considered yet. I forget the name of the effect, but when you have a solid (sperical or cylindrical works best) container filled with liquid and you spin it, the container spins and the liquid stays put, it takes a considerable amount of time for friction to get the liquid up to the same speed as the container, if this ever happens at all.

So the jacket would spin, but the core would stay put. I don't know enough about ballistics to say for certain, but I think this would totally wreck accuracy, as the jacket would be spinning way too fast and the mercury core would hardly be spinning at all.

[FUTI]

I'm sorry if I sounded harsh...
I just wanted to point the men in right direction. I didn't want to insult anyone. This is a debate and it is normal to confront the ideas. Others did to but I agree they were more understanding then me. They give their opinion and try to direct the mens effort through actual advice. Maybe the lenght of the thread and amount of reading made me nervous.

[Jacks Complete]

xyz,

interesting point! So the effective spin on the bullet would be very much slower than the speed of the jacket - almost like it was with a far lighter twist. So it would seem to have a lower inertia.

Increasing the twist rate of the bullet would do little, either, and given the rate of spin (around 28000 rotations per second for a .30-06, faster [almost twice the rate] for a .223) there would be little point. I think you would get interesting frictional heating issues, too.

I'm quite sure it could be done, but you would need a glass or plastic liner, or something else which would stop the mercury reacting.

[xyz]

An idea that just came to mind (while thinking about the "honeycomb" structure inside acetylene tanks beleive it or not) to overcome the spinning problem would be to divide the core into lots of tiny "pockets" instead of one large hollow space.

Basically anything that splits the mercury up into many little sections that are heavily restricted (if not totally prevented) from intermingling.

[FUTI]

I had an impresion that Psychlonic had something similar in mind to what xyz mentioned, sugesting the use of steel balls (several of different diameter). If you do not believe me try physics problem moment of inertia of whole aluminium cylinder and can of beans of the same weight and dimensions. This would change bullet balistic properties and can be solution of the first problem A-bomb started.

[Lurking_Shadows]

When I was younger I ripped apart some batteries with mercury in them.

I used to hunt squirrels with hollow point .22 mercury filled hollow points the same day and I didn't notice any drop in accuracy mind you it was only a .22 LR rifle and I wasn't taking any long range shots.

Usually what I did was took a drill bit and by hand reamed out some lead in a hollow point put in a bead of mercury then capped it with wax.

I also tested out the effects of a mercury filled hollow point to a normal hollow point the mercury had more of a splash effect (not sure of the right terminology) than the normal hollow point on a steel plate.

Hope this helps with the debate.

[The Frogge]

I remember hearing about the assassination of a nazi(?) leader in one of the scandinavian countries where the shooter used a .22 that had mecury in the tip sealed with wax. The bullet missed and hit the belt buckle of the target. On impact the mercury splattered and had enough energy to punch several holes in the guys intestines causing him to die from blood poisoning.

As to the spinning of the bullet and a liquid core, I don't believe that there will be an adverse effect as the mercury should be vicous/dense enough that it will be spinning at the same rate as the jacket before the bullet even leaves the bore.

[Begste]

As I have stated before I came into posession of a bunch of mercury. And I got to thinking what if I took a standard FMJ bullet or hollow point and heated it so the lead came out and left a copper jacket. And then filled it with mercury, and then sealed it. I was thinking it would have an effect like a glosser safety round, when hitting the target it would rupture and expand causing more energy to be transfered to the target, and the mercury would be poisous as well. And the jacket of the bullet would be pretty much destroyed, and you cant get a ballistics match off of a pile of mercury. What do you guys think? Would the liquid mercury cause the bullet to have no accuracy?

Mercury loads are real but hard to make. One must understand that these are almost always used on .22 rimfire bullets because of the bullet design. If it has a jacket, its kinda not worth it. You have a limited time to make and shoot the mercury load. How it works is when you fire the bullet, the mercury slams to the back of the bullet. If/when the bullet hits something, like the other side of the guys head (depending on a close or long range shot or subsonic or HV bullet) the mercury "keeps going" like a deadblow hammer, but worse because it moves omnidirectionally often blowing the bullet apart.

What you essentially have is a serious kinetic energy transfer. I've heard from unoffical sources that you can take a chunk out of concrete with one. There is a legal liquid core .22 in short, subsonic, high velocity and .22 magnum. I'm going to buy some but i'm going to get someone to do an official test. I'll keep the source secret for my own interests but the bullet says it uses a non-toxic liquid core. It also says it gets adequate penetration. Mercury loads are not legal because its a poison. But a non-toxic substitute seems to be no problem. There are hillbilly loads called "oilpack" bullets. Its a HARDCAST lead bullet drilled and filled 3/4 with oil, then closed off with a hard steel bb. When it hits the bb is driven farther into the bullet and causes the bullet to fracture into pieces.

The oilpack are legal to make and probably not too hard. It would pay to have a heavyer caliber like .44 magnum. Someone should try to make some and test results. I would imagine a little trial and error would be needed. I think a perfectly lathed bullet that is then moulded into a cast and then the cast is used to make a hard cast bullet, experimenting with alloy to be super hard and more fracture prone with consistent accuracy, would be the best idea. Rather than just trying to drill a hole in a bullet and hope it doesnt wobble in the air.

[the big k]

Hi,
You are referring to the assasination of Nikolai Bobrikov who was the Russian govenor-general in Finland(dictator) in 1904. As such he was much hated by the Finns and shot by Finn Eugen Shauman with a browning 1900 (.32ACP) . The round was indeed mercury filled, and had a cap of dentists amalgum over the top to hold the mercury in. The single round hit his belt buckle and the resulting shrapnel made over 140 tiny perforations of his lower intestine. He died from peritonitis(Eugen committed suicide but had to shoot himself twice to do it). The moral of the story being that unless you have time to wait for your target to die slowly of peritonitis(today he would survive due to improvements in surgery) a .32 is still a lousy caliber no matter what you do to it(filling with antimatter being the only exception). But what you really want to know is how to make an "explosive" bullets. So, for a 22 drill a .28" deep hole of about .1" diameter . Since Mercury is very hard to find you fill the hole using a syringe with HOT vaseline. If you can find an old Glass syringe you can heat the syringe with the vaseline in it(much easier). The syringe method will work for mercury as well, but it is easier to source copper paste from service stations.
This method will produce a more accurate round than filing, cutting a cross or spooning.

[the big k]

One thing I forgot, you need to cut the needle off so the hole is at the bottom not the side.

[DMSOnMyVeins]

Where i can find mercury? It shouldn't be easy to buy because it's poisonous.
Please don't tell me about thermometers! Too much expensive!

Theres something called an ignatron. They have anywhere from 7 ounces to 3lbs of mercury in them. Look around I'm sure you'll find one.:D

[nbk2000]

An IGNAtron is an IGNORant misspelling of IGNItron very common on the internet.

And they are NOT cheap.

[DMSOnMyVeins]

An IGNAtron is an IGNORant misspelling of IGNItron very common on the internet.

And they are NOT cheap.

I just bought 2 ignitrons.

1 for $35.00 plus shipping
1 for $64.00 plus shipping

Total amount of crude Hg: 1,205g
When I can purify it I'll post the total amount of pure Hg.

[Jacks Complete]

I seriously doubt that it needs purification. No-one uses mercury for anything that requires mercury that isn't 99.9% mercury. Otherwise something lighter, cheaper or less toxic would be used.

[DMSOnMyVeins]

I seriously doubt that it needs purification. No-one uses mercury for anything that requires mercury that isn't 99.9% mercury. Otherwise something lighter, cheaper or less toxic would be used.

The Hg that came from these ignitrons has alot of oxide in it. It needs very much to be purified. I can hardly see the shiny Hg for all the dark grey oxide.

[nbk2000]

Some of the oxide states of mercury are water-soluble, making them good for poisoning as-is. :)

Wash the goo with warm water (outside!) to dissolve the water soluble oxides, decant off from the insoluble mercury, and evaporate under vacuum to recover.

Then, wash the metallic Hg with dilute (~10%) nitric acid to remove remaining oxides and salts, filter through chamois leather, and finally distill through glass under high vacuum (or iron pipes at high heat).

[neo-crossbow]

I think a perfectly lathed {machined?}bullet that is then moulded into a cast and then the cast is used to make a hard cast bullet, experimenting with alloy to be super hard and more fracture prone with consistent accuracy, would be the best idea. Rather than just trying to drill a hole in a bullet and hope it doesnt wobble in the air.

Many years ago, back before the days of the .300 whisper actually. I used to use a M1 Carbine for work. Being a neat little carbine with 18 inch barrel it could be handled inside the vehicle whilst operating the spotlight. It would deck most pest animals with ... moderate accuracy.

However, as I got tinkering I decided that hollow point ammo would be a great advantage for Kangaroos and other medium to light game. At the time I had a case trimmer (RCBS) with interchangeable tips, I had a boring tip made up to go into the tail stock of the trimmer in which I used with great success. The complete round was loaded into the head of the machine and clamped into place, then the tail was brought up to the projectile tip to ensure correct allignment, seldom was it out of place, and then you would bore the hollow tip by rotating the handle.

Accuracy was on par for what I was achieving at the time with a great increase in stopping power.

But those were the days before hollow points could be had for the 30M1, it was either surplus FMJ or a reloaded case with a 90gn Torakev cast projectile (that clogged up the gas port hole in the barrel, if you got them to feed reliably anyway) If you were going to load anything else it would have been a deep seated heavier .308 projectile (as total length was restricted by the tiny magazines) travelling at sub-sonic speeds, so often threaded barrels were seen with .30M1's. Unfortunately with the sights the way they were often the tube length was increased because the diameter of the silencer was limited to being able to see sights (and thus the carbine became too long for vehicle work) It wasn't until later that scope mounts turned up for the carbine and descent silencers started to be manufactured. By the time this happened however commercial ammo was starting to turn up, and the .30M1 calibre wasn't all too popular with other advancements.

A farm hand at the time suggesting mercury tips, at which of of carse I totally rejected. He argued something along the line of a 30 cal projectile, travelling subsonic and silenced with the added factor of mercury would be perfect for repeat offenders to knock things (probably people knowing the lad) off. I wouldn't have them in my rifle or on my dies.

I can't remember his suggested method of sealing the tip, but it required using my press to either place or crimp something (either way it was done at the stroke of the handle)

Having bored / drilled projectiles for years, and my income depending on it I can personally guarentee with care taken accuracy doesn't suffer sufficently to such an extent you won't topple what your aiming at.

[wolfeyes]

Since I was much younger and first heard about mercury-tipped bullets while watching "The Day of the Jackal" I, too, was rather curious about them. Reading this thread has given me plenty to mull over concerning them.

One item that I feel might be interesting to the other users is a case report on mercury-induced skin granuloma's - specifically because it mentions treatment of a GSW caused by a mercury-tipped bullet.


Titre du document / Document title
Elemental mercury-induced skin granuloma : A case report and review of the literature
Auteur(s) / Author(s)
BRADBERRY S. M. (1) ; FELDMAN M. A. (1) ; BRAITHWAITE R. A. (1) ; SHORTLAND-WEBB W. (1) ; VALE J. A. (1) ;
Affiliation(s) du ou des auteurs / Author(s) Affiliation(s)
(1) City Hospital NHS Trust, Birmingham, ROYAUME-UNI
Résumé / Abstract
Background : Injection of elemental mercury is rare and only some 72 cases have been reported in the literature over the period 1923-1995. Direct subcutaneous injection or extravasation of mercury injected into blood vessels can produce local granulomata and abscesses. Unless intravascular mercury injection has occurred, clinical signs of mercury toxicity are usually absent though four cases of systemic toxicity have been reported following isolated subcutaneous injection without evidence of elemental mercury dissemination. Case Report : We report a further case of subcutaneous injection by gunshot of elemental mercury, with subsequent granuloma formation, in a 19-year-old man who was admitted with an eight month history of a tender enlarging mass in his left antecubital fossa. Three months before the onset of symptoms he had been shot in the left antecubitalfossa, while on active military service. Surgical removal of mercury from a presumed mercury-tipped bullet was undertaken but was incomplete and the patient declined further operative intervention as he remained asymptomatic. Chelation therapy was not instituted. Serum and urine mercury concentrations were measured for six years after presentation. Conclusions : We recommend that cases of subcutaneous metallic mercury injection should be managed by complete surgical excision of the granuloma under X ray control and serial monitoring of blood and urine mercury concentrations.
Revue / Journal Title
Journal of toxicology. Clinical toxicology (J. toxicol., Clin. toxicol.) ISSN 0731-3810 CODEN JTCTDW
Source / Source
1996, vol. 34, no2, pp. 209-216 (38 ref.)
Langue / Language
Anglais
Editeur / Publisher
Dekker, Monticello, NY, ETATS-UNIS (1982) (Revue)
Mots-clés anglais / English Keywords
Mercury ; Heavy metal ; Parenteral administration ; Subcutaneous administration ; Foreign body granuloma ; Skin ; Case study ; Projectile ; Toxicity ; Human ; Skin disease ;
Mots-clés français / French Keywords
Mercure ; Métal lourd ; Voie parentérale ; Voie souscutanée ; Granulome corps étranger ; Peau ; Etude cas ; Projectile ; Toxicité ; Homme ; Fusil ; Peau pathologie ;

002b03l05 ;
Mots-clés espagnols / Spanish Keywords
Mercurio ; Metal pesado ; Vía parenteral ; Vía subcutánea ; Granuloma cuerpo extraño ; Piel ; Estudio caso ; Proyectil ; Toxicidad ; Hombre ; Piel patología ;
Localisation / Location
INIST-CNRS, Cote INIST : 14107 A, 35400004469830.0100



I hope that this was appropriate as a first post - I'm enjoying my time here, and learning a lot by keeping my mouth shut. :)

[teshilo]

From classic book "Day of Jackal" Dialog armorer and hitman:
-I need in bullets...
-Mercury or glyceryne?
-Mercury ,this more clean...
And alloy Na/K in room temperature are liquid and after contact with water (blood ) :eek: very devastating effect..

[chemdude1999]

Using some of the ideas developed earlier in this thread (mercury containment) I believe the best way to utilize mercury would be in a larger caliber. Barret has a 25-mm rifle that uses a type of payload delivery system:

http://www.military.com/soldiertech/0,14632,Soldiertech_XM109,,00.html

Granted, the max caliber that we in the states can own is .50 with exceptions of some of the old hunting cartridges (i.e., .600 Nitro Express). Perhaps a shotgun round? There are different methods of loading payloads in shotgun shells. Maybe with some modification, one would be feasible.

The key would be keeping the projectile whole until initial impact. I do like the idea of mercury as anti-material and anti-personnel rolled into one. The inertia would cause the little mercury blobs to blast through cover and flesh. However, I doubt it would be much use against a harden target. Raufoss rounds are better for that. :D

[Shaker]

I understand the intrigue behind the creation and employment of such a projectile. However, it is impractical for uses with any centerfire cartridge intended for delivery at distances beyond about one hundred yards.

Copper jackets are drawn from rolled copper. The draw process is already playing with the stresses in the copper. Adding mercury to a jacket without some sort of buffer would also destroy the heterogeneity of the copper. This would likely increase the chances of fragmentation in, or upon exit from, the barrel.


It would be difficult and not timely, to attempt to seal a copper jacket filled with mercury without any air remaining. That air will cause ballistic problems in all three forms of Ballistics; Internal, External, and Terminal.

There would be jarring effects on the internal and external ballistics. The forceful movement of the air bubble would shift weight. The gravitational effect on the mercury would, as someone stated earlier, keep it from spinning. This would, in turn, slow down the spin of the round itself. The yaw angle of trajectory would sporadically increase or decrease.

The other idea that was brought up of a sort of internal honeycomb could have worse effects. The weight of the mercury combined with it's liquid movement could likely speed up bullet rotation once leaving the bore, if this honeycomb is used. This, combined with the loss of heterogeneity, and the marring on the bullet surface from the lands in the bore, would likely give you some magnificent mid air explosion. At the very least - A tumble and completely unpredictable trajectory.

For more on the effects / ill effects of liquids used in this way, I would suggest reading up on Miles C. Miller and his tests at Aberdeen Proving Ground. Particularly an exerpt titled 'Void Characteristics of a Liquid-Filled Cylinder Undergoing Spinning and Coning Motion'.


From one hundred yards and closer, I would say you could do just about anything. Ballistics on even sub-sonic rounds are very tolerant in that range. I suspect you could fire a stone with a spring and effectively hit a target at 100 yards. :p

I wish you happy experimenting.

[Gammaray1981]

I seem to recall reading a while back (although given the amount I read, it may have been in a work of fiction) of a form of short-range projectile weapon utilising frozen mercury, propelled by several CO2 gas cartridges. (Short range due to lack of initial power, defrosting of projectile, and lack of rifling.) As I said, I'm not sure if this was a factual article, but from my own (albeit limited) experience, the basic premise seems sound, if slightly impractical due to the freezing point of mercury. (-38.72 degrees C). Any thoughts?

[tintinteslacoil]

Also, I once got a lot of mercury dirt cheap at a salvage yard. It was in red plastic mercury-wetted relays. The things were HEAVY! I got whiplash just from shaking them--you can easily feel what they are filled with. Don't ask for them or tell the proprietor what they are--he may decided not to sell to you or may then jack up the price. Just look around, then make an offer. I sawed open dozens of these, and must have ended up with at least 20 lbs. of very clean mercury (the plastic dust from cutting will float on top, and can be scooped off.) I had it in a big glass bottle, until some chingado stole it. Beats me what he was going to do with it--you can't hock the stuff. Hope he drank some!

[Jacks Complete]

Mercury forms an amalgam with all metals except iron, so you need to either use an iron container inside your bullet or line it with something else. Otherwise your liquid metal bullet will be nothing more than an expensive solid bullet within a few minutes or hours.

[anonymous411]

As a thought experiment, this is fascinating-- but in a real-life scenario, I'm not about to risk my life and safety tinkering around with ammunition which is likely to fail, jam, or otherwise be inaccurate and ineffective. When you're engaging a target, you can't afford to experiment. Odds are fairly good you're the only one who'll end up in contact with mercury, anyway.

In my opinion, you'd be better off spending your time practicing your marksmanship.

Double tap center mass, and one to the head:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozambique_Drill

[ann]

I have tested mercury type rounds and found them to be NOT worth the trouble.Do Not waste Your Time !!!

If you seek a hydraulic action type bullet it can be made much more simple by just filling a hollowpoint with silicone,grease,oil or even water and sealing the bullet with J.B. weld...These do work and well.


As far as poison bullets their are many tested & proven designs ....a couple off the top of my head are the current use russian dissolving bullet design that uses Aconitine,the WW2 german design and the early 1970s "last gasp" cyanide filled bullets made by the velex exploding ammo team.Their are also the dissolving composite poison bullets made by F/X...etc.....

The russian bullet contains 25-30 mg Aconitine and was usually prepared at kamera Laboratory No. 12 from the roots of Aconitium napellus, a flower plant known by such popular names as monkhood, friarscowl and wolfsbane.

The Germans in WWII also had similar bullets. The most simple german bullet contained a water-potassium cyanide solution


Russian 9mm poison bullet is on the far left.
http://i1.tinypic.com/6chc7sk.jpg
http://i11.tinypic.com/4xqr2nm.jpg



Here are some FX designs poison,delay explosive,ap.etc......My fav the ap delayed explosive poison combo prototype called the "grim reaper" as a joke .It has the blue bullet.
http://aycu06.webshots.com/image/12765/2005206333823704002_fs.jpg
http://aycu33.webshots.com/image/11712/2004576033243211285_fs.jpg

[Toggle]

xyz,

interesting point! So the effective spin on the bullet would be very much slower than the speed of the jacket -

Not only that, but due to liquid drag the bullets would loose what spin they had faster than solid bullets. Like the old trick of telling if an egg is raw or hard boiled by spinning it.

[Charlie Workman]

Interesting cartridges, Ann. I assume the white sealant around the poison cartridge is to prevent leakage? I've seen the cutaway of this one. It was mentioned in the Nuremberg trials testimony. What of the identity of the other two? BTW, judging from this and your other posts, I think we'll enjoy having you here. Welcome!

[ann]

Interesting cartridges, Ann. I assume the white sealant around the poison cartridge is to prevent leakage? I've seen the cutaway of this one. It was mentioned in the Nuremberg trials testimony. What of the identity of the other two? BTW, judging from this and your other posts, I think we'll enjoy having you here. Welcome!


Thanks..I just want to spice up the weapons section a bit.:D

The russian round is made of a metal ??? composite that dissolves....I have NOT been able to nail down what it is made from for sure.:confused: They are issued rounds and NOT a gimmick but any info is really a bitch to find.The FX rounds are composites with a poison core made of a laser sealed glass vial....irradiated thallium has come up ???? Hard to find info once again.

The other 2 9mm rounds are

middle is a prototype 3 in 1 shot it uses a sabot.

The far right is really cool...IMO

It is the same size as a unfired full size 9mm .It will feed and work in all standard 9mm firearms but its a rocket along the lines of a gyrojet but better.It is AP/Explosive and uses driveing bands.THEY WORK !!!


More 9mm fxl rounds
http://aycu23.webshots.com/image/26942/2000625464208766888_fs.jpg

[ann]

I've seen the cutaway of this one. It was mentioned in the Nuremberg trials testimony!

Here is a page from the testimony.I have researched,etc.... these type rounds a lot and have a copy of the full testimony.

This shows how the russian/german rounnds were made that the germans tested on humans.The rounds worked and worked well.:D

Their is lots of hollywood BS & other BS on poison rounds i.e. mercury,garlic,etc...This is one poison design that was tested and worked and is easy to build.

http://aycu19.webshots.com/image/30018/2002077208117950149_fs.jpg

[nbk2000]

Looks like a cross between a Corbon PowRball. and a Triton Quik-Shok.

A polymer plug acts as a wedge to split apart a segmented lead bullet in a full-base copper hollow-point jacket, with the payload contained in a central cavity. :)

Oh, an idea!

Suspend your poison of choice in a highly volatile (but inert) solvent, and use a syringe to inject it past the polymer ball into the cavity below, then heat the round to just above the boiling point of the solvent, to drive it out of the bullet, leaving the powdered poison inside. :)

Below: PowRball (left) and Quik-Shok (right)

[Charlie Workman]

NBK- That's exactly the way it worked. The jacket was split into four segments. They shot some guys in the thigh with it and observed the results. With typical Teutonic thoroughness, the kept detailed notes. That, off course, was their ass when the prosecutors got a hold it. Took about two hours for all of them to die.

+++++++
2 hours for who to die? The victims or the people who did the test after being convicted? NBK
+++++++

Ann- thanks for the graphic. This one goes into the files.

[zarquan74]

It seems to me that this myth did get started with "The Day of the Jackal" as Flake2m mentioned. I have heard my dad speculate about mercury filled bullets since I was about 12, based on this movie. I watched that movie again recently, and the substance used in those bullets was Mercury Fulminate - a primary explosive with very different characteristics from elemental Mercury.

Also, you have to consider that a mercury-filled bullet is going to leave a gun barrel at a lower velocity, and probably also with less energy, than a conventional lead core bullet. There is a good deal of evidence that the lighter bullets - such as those composed entirely of polymer -- have much greater destructive power at close and medium ranges when compared to conventional lead core bullets. At long ranges, the reduced ballistic coefficient of the plastic bullets makes them less energetic than lead bullets, but this also helps make them less lethal toward far-away bystanders in urban areas.

[zippo]

the mercury shouldn't cause the bullet to be so innacurate that your not going to hit the person unless of course you plan on shooting it a long distance. also you could just make a mold for hollow bullets and get a lead smelter, it would be so much easier; but then you would have to put some sort of spray or something to prevent the mercury and the lead from reacting...

[crowmanyclouds]

From classic book "Day of Jackal" Dialog armorer and hitman:
-I need in bullets...
-Mercury or glyceryne?
-Mercury ,this more clean... [...]I haven't read the book, but did see the movie.

In the scene where the Jackal is zeroing in the "rifle", he first uses regular ammo. Then, with the "rifle" zeroed in, switches to an explosive round (given the difference in the way the target, a melon, reacts).

I'm wondering if the dialog from the book should be read as "mercury (fulminate) or (nitro)glycerin"?

Two questions do arise, given Frederick Forsyth's Wikipedia bio,Biography (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Forsyth#Biography)
Born in Ashford, Kent, Forsyth was educated at Tonbridge School and later attended the University of Granada in Spain. He became one of the youngest pilots in the Royal Air Force, at the age of 19, where he served till 1958. Becoming a journalist, he joined Reuters in 1961 and later the BBC in 1965, where he served as an assistant diplomatic correspondent. ...how much does he really know about exotic ammunition.

And would ya really want to fire a homemade round filled with either mercury fulminate or nitroglycerin out of a super light, super concealable, homemade "rifle"?

That's a lot of faith he's putting in his armorer!

zarquan74 since you've seen the movie more recently that me, did either character specifically mention mercury fulminate?

[Asriel]

While it may make a nice sounding weapon for a bad guy in a spy movie, this is not going to be an effective way of increasing the terminal effectiveness of your bullet. The ability of the mercury to increase the weight or to poison the bullet will be miniscule at best and probably not have any measurable increase in terminal effectiveness. Especially as making these bullets you suggest would be extrordinarily tedious.

[London_Dungeon]

I once emailed the guys at Boxotruth about mercury bullets, asking if they might ever consider doing an article about them. They told me they already tried and the bullets had no noticeable difference compared to standard HPs.

If you're going to shoot someone it's probably best to just do it with a good caliber and fire until empty. The mercury doesn't sound like it's worth the investment of time.